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Hi,

Welcome to the forum, but this is not the theology. I am on my phone and will not be able to move the post to the appropriate place until later, but please try to post topics in their most appropriate forums. Very good topic though. Thanks!

Many scriptures depict hell as fire and brimstone burning for eternity, but none of us actually knows what it will look like or feel to be cast there. In my own minds eye I see hell as a place where those who have rejected God, whether they be good or bad people, burning in a torment (fire and brimstone could be a metaphor for torment) of having to see those who have heard the call of God and have accepted Him and now live in a place of paradise with all the fullness of God in all His glory. No more tears, no more hurts, pain sickness, etc, etc. Those in hell are outside the realm of God continuing in all their sin, sickness, hurts, pain tears, etc. etc., but can see those who are in the glory of the Lord like looking through a window and wanting what others have, but will never have it and this is their torment for eternity as they are constantly consumed with the fire that burns in their souls for what they have rejected and now to late to receive.

God said that he would that none should perish, but those who have rejected God and His word are those who will be cast into the lake of fire for eternity by their own choice, even if they do not believe in Heaven or Hell, we believe because we know that Gods word is truth and does not come back void in our lives.

Hos 4:6 My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children.
Hos 4:7 as they were increased, so they sinned against me: therefore will I change their glory into shame.

Rev 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
Rev 21:2 and I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
Rev 21:3 and I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
Rev 21:4 and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
Rev 21:5 and he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.
Rev 21:6 and he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.
Rev 21:7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God and he shall be my son.
Rev 21:8 but the fearful, and unbelieving, and abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

Quote from: TJW on December 17, 2011, 11:09:26 AM

It is a very good topic indeed, and I was one who believed this for years because of the faulty teaching of my church, my family, and friends.  I have recognized in the last few years that you are correct, the bible does not teach this if taken as a whole.

I am interested to hear your viewpoint upon the "problem" verses.

The most common arguments used to support the notion of eternal burning are the rich man and Lazarus and verses that use the words "everlasting fire," "eternal punishment," "unquenchable fire," etc.

The parable of the rich man and Lazarus is very vague and cannot be used as concrete proof that people have immortal souls that burn forever. If this parable is to be taken literally as a real event then I ask the question: where did Adam and Eve go after they died? Did they go to a paradise underneath the earth, or did they go to a place of torment called Hades? I would like to know when humans were given "immortal souls." There are tons of passages in the Bible that speak of death as a sleep without any mention of an immortal soul going to paradise or torment after death. Therefore one single parable cannot be used against the weight of evidence that teaches something opposite.

The words "everlasting or unquenchable fire" are also distorted. According to Jude, Sodom and Gomorrah were burned with eternal fire (Jude 1:7), but yet Sodom and Gomorrah were  annihilated and turned to ashes. Also in Matthew 3:12 John the baptist says He will burn up with unquenchable fire. To burn something up means to consume it. The word "unquenchable" means that nobody will be able to put out the fire. I can give examples in the Bible where God burned things up with unquenchable fire, but yet the fire did not burn forever.

The problem with Christians today is that they take a verse at first glance and don't bother to dig below the surface. If we go strictly by the Bible and are consistent, nobody can support the doctrine of an eternal hell where immortal souls will burn for eternity. I choose to stick with what the Bible teaches.

So it is you who now has the  correct biblical interpretaion? Thank God that we can now receive proper instruction concerning the Scriptures.  Can't wait to see you and poster Giver in a one on one, that ought to be interesting!

Quote from: Ladonia on December 17, 2011, 12:03:22 PM

Quote from: ObeyTheGospel on December 17, 2011, 11:51:33 AM

Quote from: TJW on December 17, 2011, 11:09:26 AM

It is a very good topic indeed, and I was one who believed this for years because of the faulty teaching of my church, my family, and friends.  I have recognized in the last few years that you are correct, the bible does not teach this if taken as a whole.

I am interested to hear your viewpoint upon the "problem" verses.

The most common arguments used to support the notion of eternal burning are the rich man and Lazarus and verses that use the words "everlasting fire," "eternal punishment," "unquenchable fire," etc.

The parable of the rich man and Lazarus is very vague and cannot be used as concrete proof that people have immortal souls that burn forever. If this parable is to be taken literally as a real event then I ask the question: where did Adam and Eve go after they died? Did they go to a paradise underneath the earth, or did they go to a place of torment called Hades? I would like to know when humans were given "immortal souls." There are tons of passages in the Bible that speak of death as a sleep without any mention of an immortal soul going to paradise or torment after death. Therefore one single parable cannot be used against the weight of evidence that teaches something opposite.

The words "everlasting or unquenchable fire" are also distorted. According to Jude, Sodom and Gomorrah were burned with eternal fire (Jude 1:7), but yet Sodom and Gomorrah were  annihilated and turned to ashes. Also in Matthew 3:12 John the baptist says He will burn up with unquenchable fire. To burn something up means to consume it. The word "unquenchable" means that nobody will be able to put out the fire. I can give examples in the Bible where God burned things up with unquenchable fire, but yet the fire did not burn forever.

The problem with Christians today is that they take a verse at first glance and don't bother to dig below the surface. If we go strictly by the Bible and are consistent, nobody can support the doctrine of an eternal hell where immortal souls will burn for eternity. I choose to stick with what the Bible teaches.

So it is you who now has the  correct biblical interpretaion? Thank God that we can now receive proper instruction concerning the Scriptures.  Can't wait to see you and poster Giver in a one on one, that ought to be interesting!

I'm sorry if this offends you. I thought as Christians we should be able to disagree in a friendly manner. It seems a lot of Christians get angry these days, especially when someone doesn't believe that a lost soul will be tortured for eternity. All I am doing is giving the other side of the story. I am showing that scripture can be distorted by people who do not dig below the surface. I don't know why you had to get sarcastic. Did I touch a nerve or something?

Well, when you started out with "the problem with Christians today is they take a verse....".  So, you are the only one who does? Accusing others from the outset that they don't? Maybe they do and perhaps don't see the particular verses in quite the same light as you do. I am all for friendly discussion, quote a verse, tell your opinion, but accusations right from the start?

Quote from: Ladonia on December 17, 2011, 02:30:36 PM

Quote from: ObeyTheGospel on December 17, 2011, 12:39:50 PM

Quote from: Ladonia on December 17, 2011, 12:03:22 PM

Quote from: ObeyTheGospel on December 17, 2011, 11:51:33 AM

Quote from: TJW on December 17, 2011, 11:09:26 AM

It is a very good topic indeed, and I was one who believed this for years because of the faulty teaching of my church, my family, and friends.  I have recognized in the last few years that you are correct, the bible does not teach this if taken as a whole.

I am interested to hear your viewpoint upon the "problem" verses.

The most common arguments used to support the notion of eternal burning are the rich man and Lazarus and verses that use the words "everlasting fire," "eternal punishment," "unquenchable fire," etc.

The parable of the rich man and Lazarus is very vague and cannot be used as concrete proof that people have immortal souls that burn forever. If this parable is to be taken literally as a real event then I ask the question: where did Adam and Eve go after they died? Did they go to a paradise underneath the earth, or did they go to a place of torment called Hades? I would like to know when humans were given "immortal souls." There are tons of passages in the Bible that speak of death as a sleep without any mention of an immortal soul going to paradise or torment after death. Therefore one single parable cannot be used against the weight of evidence that teaches something opposite.

The words "everlasting or unquenchable fire" are also distorted. According to Jude, Sodom and Gomorrah were burned with eternal fire (Jude 1:7), but yet Sodom and Gomorrah were  annihilated and turned to ashes. Also in Matthew 3:12 John the baptist says He will burn up with unquenchable fire. To burn something up means to consume it. The word "unquenchable" means that nobody will be able to put out the fire. I can give examples in the Bible where God burned things up with unquenchable fire, but yet the fire did not burn forever.

The problem with Christians today is that they take a verse at first glance and don't bother to dig below the surface. If we go strictly by the Bible and are consistent, nobody can support the doctrine of an eternal hell where immortal souls will burn for eternity. I choose to stick with what the Bible teaches.

So it is you who now has the  correct biblical interpretaion? Thank God that we can now receive proper instruction concerning the Scriptures.  Can't wait to see you and poster Giver in a one on one, that ought to be interesting!

I'm sorry if this offends you. I thought as Christians we should be able to disagree in a friendly manner. It seems a lot of Christians get angry these days, especially when someone doesn't believe that a lost soul will be tortured for eternity. All I am doing is giving the other side of the story. I am showing that scripture can be distorted by people who do not dig below the surface. I don't know why you had to get sarcastic. Did I touch a nerve or something?

Well, when you started out with "the problem with Christians today is they take a verse....".  So, you are the only one who does? Accusing others from the outset that they don't? Maybe they do and perhaps don't see the particular verses in quite the same light as you do. I am all for friendly discussion, quote a verse, tell your opinion, but accusations right from the start?

In all fairness a lot of Christians do take verses out of context without digging below the surface. And even if I come across as a little offensive, shouldn't you have prayed for me instead of replying with sarcasm? I thought Christians are suppose to love each other?

You are correct, prayer would have been better (after a gentle admonition without  the sarcasm). I apologize for my poor response. And if you would pray for me it would be appreciated. Thanks, and may God bless you always!

Rev 21:8 but the fearful, and unbelieving, and abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

After the Great White Throne Judgment the unsaved are thrown into the lake of fire, this is the second death, not punishment forever.
Eternal punishment is not punishment forever but punishment from the Eternal - who is God, as I see it.

Rev 20:10  And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

But it looks as though satan's punishment is forever. I wonder if the fate of the fallen angels are mentioned somewhere?

I realise this is very short to affirm what I have said, but further info. may be coming from some.

ObeyTheGospel,  "If the story Jesus told about the rich man and the poor man is not true, and just a parable, and you claim it is a parable, what moral or spiritual truth is it teaching. What exactly are you saying it symbolizes? and what is the lession it teaches if a parable?"

Also eternal means, perpetual, everlasting. Scriptures teach, that God is eternal.

Rom.16:26, "The everlasting God." "Everlasting" Gen.21:33. Isa.40:28, "The everlasting God." 

The Holy Spirit is eternal, Heb.9:14, "Eternal Spirit,

Scriptures teach, Matt.19:29, Whoever gives up all they have and follows Jesus, He said, they "Shall inherit everlasting life."

For those who do as the rich man did to Lazaras, Jesus said, Matt.25:41, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels." Compare to,

Matt.25:46, Jesus said, "These shall go away into everlasting punishment but the righteous into life eternal." Compare with,

Dan.12:2, "Many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt."

In you believe in everlasting life, then you have to believe in everlasting punishment. Its in the same sentence, and the same word, in Matthew, and Daniel. So you have a Old and New Testament supporting the idea behind eternal, or everlasting life, verses, everlasting punishment.

Eternal: 166. Greek is, aionios. Perpetual, everlasting, eternal.
   a-1. Spoken chiefly of time future, of God, Rom.16:26, "The everlasting God." 1 Tim.
6:16. Sept. for Heb. "Everlasting" Gen.21:33. Isa.40:28, "The everlasting God." 
   a-2. Of the happiness of the righteous, Matt.19:29, 25:46, "Everlasting punishment." Mark 10:30, "Eternal life." John 3:15-16-36. Rom.2:7. 2 Cor.4:17. In some passages this, "May have life eternal, is equivalent to, John 3:15, coll. with ver.3-5. Matt.19:16. Acts 13:46.
   a-3. Of the punishment of the wicked, Matt.18:8, 25:41-46. Mark 3:29, "Eternal damnation." 2 Thes.1:9. Heb.6:2. Jude 7. Sept. for Heb. "Everlasting," Dan.12:2.
   a-4. Genr. 2 Cor.4:18, 5:1. Heb.9:14, "Eternal Spirit, "Heb.13:20. 1 John 1:2. Rev.
14:6. Philem.15, as an adverb. "Forever," always. Sept. for Heb. Gen.9:16. 17:7.

Phil LaSpino

The parable of the rich man and Lazarus has a deep meaning. I have listened to different interpretations on what this parable means, but to take it as a literal event wouldn't make much sense for a variety of reasons: When were humans given immortal souls? Where did Adam and Eve go after they died? There is no mention of immortal souls anywhere in the Bible. You can't just take a single parable and interpret it as a literal real event.

When it comes to "everlasting" or "eternal" in the Bible you have to read it in its context. Sometimes the word "eternal" is to be taken literally, but many other times the word "eternal" or "everlasting" did not literally mean forever. Sodom and Gomorrah were burned with eternal fire (Jude 1:7), but they were turned to ashes. It just means that the results of the fire are eternal. Also when the Bible says "unquenchable fire," it only meant that nobody could put out the fire. The fire did not literally burn forever. The wicked will have eternal punishment i.e eternal death, not eternal life in hell.