Author Topic: Hell is not eternal torment  (Read 10058 times)

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Offline chosenone

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Re: Hell is not eternal torment
« Reply #105 on: Fri Sep 06, 2013 - 03:57:01 »
However not all will be dsaved as the Bibel makes very clear. Many will og along the wide ropad thatr leasd to
Hi willieH
I am having some trouble understanding you....too much info in one go !
If I get you right are you saying it is the 'good or evil that we do which is being judged by God/Christ and that is what is being 'corrected in us to lead us into eternal life....because it is not God's Will that any should perish. So it is not 'people who will perish in fire everlasting but our 'bad deeds will be burned up ?
Please keep your answer simple , one step at the time !


Exactly Jeff!  The works which are EVIL, will not abide in the eternal, nor survive this realm of time...


This LIFE is the LAKE of FIRE mentioned in the book of Revelation.  Each work of EVIL, passes into eternal NON-existence. 


On the other hand, ...the WORKS of CHRIST in us -- Gal 2:20 -- will survive this realm, and thereby memorialize His GLORY forever.


JESUS (and the PERFECT and COMPLETE work of His CROSS to reconcile us - Col 1:20) -- is "taking away" -- John 1:29 -- the SIN of the WORLD,  ...moment by moment,  ...life by life...  ::clappingoverhead::


PEACE...  ::reading::  ...willieH

However not all are saved of course. Jesus Himself said many are these who go along the wide road that leads to destruction.

Offline willieH

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Re: Hell is not eternal torment
« Reply #106 on: Fri Sep 06, 2013 - 16:48:01 »
Hi again, Yes I can agree with what you say above...so
can we connect our human suffering to the fact of having our sins erased,forgiven, wiped out AS we get rid of it ? Are we healed of sufferings when we stop sinning ?
(by suffering I mean illness, bad things going on in our life)

This is a tough thing to answer, and a very good question Beta...   ::nodding::


Though I have dedicated the majority of my life unto the Lord, and intensely prayed and studied as well as sought to do the right thing in my life does not remove the fact of my suffering with Cancer for the last 5 years.  However... even in the suffering... I can see many blessings... and always refer to -- Heb 2:10 -- as it notes that SUFFERING was part of the process of PERFECTION in CHRIST.   


If we do not SUFFER, then we are not "like" our Savior in that respect!  ::shrug::  In order that we be "made" in the IMAGE of God, means that SUFFERING must be a part of that process... as JESUS suffered tremendously on our behalf.


That we are forgiven of SIN, does not remove the fact we have SOWN ungodliness and unrighteousness.  Just as the physical laws of God must be respected, and WILL bring consequence when they are not, so shall our deeds bring REAPING of what we have SOWN.  GOD's WRATH is come against ALL ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, so...  even though the CROSS of CHRIST has reconciled our misdoings on a spiritual and eternal basis,  ...does not remove the WRATH which unchangingly will come against us for our misdoings.


We are HEALED in the eternal sense, but in the life of the physical, ...concerning the SOWING of SIN, ...there will still be consequences to face.  Where we KNEW good and DID evil... is just not "tossed aside".   There is no LEARNING within dispensing of penalties which are rightfully due.  Any parent knows that it is within their LOVE to forgive a child his misdoings, but the WORD instructs us to use the ROD of CORRECTION as well, within their experience!  -- Prov 22:15


In -- John 8:3-11 -- Is the account of the ADULTRESS, brought before JESUS by the (religious) Pharisees... when all was said & done, there was no mention of repentance by her, nor by JESUS, just that her ACCUSERS were no longer present.  This is the TAKING AWAY of SIN...  JESUS instructed her to go and SIN no more...


As I see it, JESUS' vast LOVE for His flock is to assist in any way, the escape from the SOWING of SIN, that they will not REAP of its consequences.  That we are forgiven of SIN, does not remove the LAW of SOWING and REAPING.  GOD's WRATH ...IS... come against ...ALL ungodliness and unrighteousness -- Rom 1:18 -- So, indeed SUFFERING can occur if we continue involvement in SIN.


JESUS and our Father YHVH both LOVE us with unending/unbeginning/immeasureable LOVE... and it sorrows them deeply that we suffer in sin.  Wherever possible, they as do all LOVING parents, try to teach and recommend unto us as children, to stay away from that which can and will cause us suffering and harm.


We ARE healed of our sufferings, via our submission to the ONE which takes it away via HIS ACTIVE working in our live, in place of our own -- Gal 2:20 -- when we remain in submission to our Savior... we are not further "sowing" unto evil.


It is pretty widely known that all the Apostles, though they worked in the cause of Holiness, still found suffering in their lives... which is (as I see it), evidence of past sowing which had to meet Divine wrath.  Just because you become a Christian and you become and remain devoted to CHRIST for the rest of your life to Holiness, does not mean that SUFFERING is thereby omitted (from that point) from your experience.


GOD ALWAYS remains TRUE to Himself and unto His standards.  ::The B-I-B-L-E, yes that's th   The ball thrown UP, ...will come DOWN, eventually.   ::looking around::


PEACE...  ::reading::  ...willieH

Offline Beta

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Re: Hell is not eternal torment
« Reply #107 on: Fri Sep 06, 2013 - 23:45:54 »
Hi again, Yes I can agree with what you say above...so
can we connect our human suffering to the fact of having our sins erased,forgiven, wiped out AS we get rid of it ? Are we healed of sufferings when we stop sinning ?
(by suffering I mean illness, bad things going on in our life)

This is a tough thing to answer, and a very good question Beta...   ::nodding::


Though I have dedicated the majority of my life unto the Lord, and intensely prayed and studied as well as sought to do the right thing in my life does not remove the fact of my suffering with Cancer for the last 5 years.  However... even in the suffering... I can see many blessings... and always refer to -- Heb 2:10 -- as it notes that SUFFERING was part of the process of PERFECTION in CHRIST.   


If we do not SUFFER, then we are not "like" our Savior in that respect!  ::shrug::  In order that we be "made" in the IMAGE of God, means that SUFFERING must be a part of that process... as JESUS suffered tremendously on our behalf.


That we are forgiven of SIN, does not remove the fact we have SOWN ungodliness and unrighteousness.  Just as the physical laws of God must be respected, and WILL bring consequence when they are not, so shall our deeds bring REAPING of what we have SOWN.  GOD's WRATH is come against ALL ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, so...  even though the CROSS of CHRIST has reconciled our misdoings on a spiritual and eternal basis,  ...does not remove the WRATH which unchangingly will come against us for our misdoings.


We are HEALED in the eternal sense, but in the life of the physical, ...concerning the SOWING of SIN, ...there will still be consequences to face.  Where we KNEW good and DID evil... is just not "tossed aside".   There is no LEARNING within dispensing of penalties which are rightfully due.  Any parent knows that it is within their LOVE to forgive a child his misdoings, but the WORD instructs us to use the ROD of CORRECTION as well, within their experience!  -- Prov 22:15


In -- John 8:3-11 -- Is the account of the ADULTRESS, brought before JESUS by the (religious) Pharisees... when all was said & done, there was no mention of repentance by her, nor by JESUS, just that her ACCUSERS were no longer present.  This is the TAKING AWAY of SIN...  JESUS instructed her to go and SIN no more...


As I see it, JESUS' vast LOVE for His flock is to assist in any way, the escape from the SOWING of SIN, that they will not REAP of its consequences.  That we are forgiven of SIN, does not remove the LAW of SOWING and REAPING.  GOD's WRATH ...IS... come against ...ALL ungodliness and unrighteousness -- Rom 1:18 -- So, indeed SUFFERING can occur if we continue involvement in SIN.


JESUS and our Father YHVH both LOVE us with unending/unbeginning/immeasureable LOVE... and it sorrows them deeply that we suffer in sin.  Wherever possible, they as do all LOVING parents, try to teach and recommend unto us as children, to stay away from that which can and will cause us suffering and harm.


We ARE healed of our sufferings, via our submission to the ONE which takes it away via HIS ACTIVE working in our live, in place of our own -- Gal 2:20 -- when we remain in submission to our Savior... we are not further "sowing" unto evil.


It is pretty widely known that all the Apostles, though they worked in the cause of Holiness, still found suffering in their lives... which is (as I see it), evidence of past sowing which had to meet Divine wrath.  Just because you become a Christian and you become and remain devoted to CHRIST for the rest of your life to Holiness, does not mean that SUFFERING is thereby omitted (from that point) from your experience.


GOD ALWAYS remains TRUE to Himself and unto His standards.  ::The B-I-B-L-E, yes that's th   The ball thrown UP, ...will come DOWN, eventually.   ::looking around::


PEACE...  ::reading::  ...willieH

Thank you very much indeed for your honest reply which I see to be based on the Word of God !
It was what I expected !!! (nice to have it confirmed)

Offline willieH

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Re: Hell is not eternal torment
« Reply #108 on: Sun Sep 08, 2013 - 13:45:11 »
However not all will be dsaved as the Bibel makes very clear. Many will og along the wide ropad thatr leasd to
Hi willieH
I am having some trouble understanding you....too much info in one go !
If I get you right are you saying it is the 'good or evil that we do which is being judged by God/Christ and that is what is being 'corrected in us to lead us into eternal life....because it is not God's Will that any should perish. So it is not 'people who will perish in fire everlasting but our 'bad deeds will be burned up ?
Please keep your answer simple , one step at the time !


Exactly Jeff!  The works which are EVIL, will not abide in the eternal, nor survive this realm of time...


This LIFE is the LAKE of FIRE mentioned in the book of Revelation.  Each work of EVIL, passes into eternal NON-existence. 


On the other hand, ...the WORKS of CHRIST in us -- Gal 2:20 -- will survive this realm, and thereby memorialize His GLORY forever.


JESUS (and the PERFECT and COMPLETE work of His CROSS to reconcile us - Col 1:20) -- is "taking away" -- John 1:29 -- the SIN of the WORLD,  ...moment by moment,  ...life by life...  ::clappingoverhead::


PEACE...  ::reading::  ...willieH

However not all are saved of course. Jesus Himself said many are these who go along the wide road that leads to destruction.

The word translated in the KJV version of the Bible to be -- "DESTRUCTION" (in the verse to which you refer -- Matt 7:13) is translated "LOST" in the parables of the "LOST" sheep, coin, and son -- Luke 15:1-32 -- ALL of these (though for a time, they were EACH in a state of "DESTRUCTION"), were EACH, ...RECOVERED.   That you choose NOT to investigate this, shall be your own undoing.   


Unless in humility, you change your position, and decide at least to "take a look", you shall find that YOUR own feet are place upon this pathway (and are included amongst those whom, though they COME in the Name of CHRIST)... are indeed embedded in INIQUITY -- Matt 7:22-23


That MEN are in a state of DESTRUCTION -- APOLLUMI - #G622 -- does not mean that they shall not be saved...  The WORD was SENT to SAVE THE WORLD -- 1 John 4:14 --  The WORD of YHVH God clearly notes that unto whatever the WORD is SENT to do, ...SHALL be accomplished -- Isaiah 55:11 --  despite the fact that the MAJORITY of men (and women) who have set foot on the Earth,  have not the sight to see the GLORY of this majesty. 


As JESUS remains the SAVIOR, without regard to the fact the 2/3's of the worlds population presently do not recognize Him to be such...  ::reading::  ...nevertheless, He ...IS... THE SAVIOR of the WORLD. 


That GOD has CLEARLY stated that HE is UNWILLING -- BOULEMA -- #G1014 -- that ANY PERISH... is basis enough, that NONE shall perish -- 2 Pet 3:9 -- regardless of whether or not YOU happen to see this.   ::shrug::


Stay where you are, chosenone.   But know this...  You shall REAP what you SOW -- Gal 6:8 -- no one shall MOCK God (via purposed IGNORANCE) and escape consequence for doing so. 


PEACE...   ::reading:: ...willieH

Offline JohnDB

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Re: Hell is not eternal torment
« Reply #109 on: Tue Sep 10, 2013 - 05:06:40 »
Willie,

Did I read correct?

Have you got cancer?

I'm so sorry. How's your wife?  She doing OK?

Hang in there brother.

Offline willieH

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Re: Hell is not eternal torment
« Reply #110 on: Fri Sep 13, 2013 - 14:11:43 »
Willie,

Did I read correct?

Have you got cancer?

I'm so sorry. How's your wife?  She doing OK?

Hang in there brother.

Yes... been battling it for 5 years... and amidst chemotherapy now... wife is doing great.  ::nodding::


Thanks so much for your compassion bro...  ::groupprayer::


PEACE...  ::reading::  ...willieH

Offline SkyWriting

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Re: Hell is not eternal torment
« Reply #111 on: Sun Jul 14, 2019 - 21:06:04 »
Though I have dedicated the majority of my life unto the Lord, and intensely prayed and studied as well as sought to do the right thing in my life does not remove the fact of my suffering with Cancer for the last 5 years. 

The end of suffering will be the end of breathing and so breathing is a blessing.
No more breathing is coming for us all.