I just happened across this string, and am trying to grasp your viewpoint concerning body, soul, spirit, eternal life, judgement, etc. topics. Would you be willing to summarize your biblical understanding of these things?
If this is an inappropriate request, please accept my apologies-- I am new to this type of forum.
It appears you may be rescued this thread as the others have moved on left in confusion as to their fallen angel theology. These are they who are taught error from a child and never question their beliefs they are held under their deception that God has failed to control His Heavenly Realm.
Put simply they do not understand angels…at all!
Do you actually believe that God allowed sin to enter Heaven? I am continually amazed at how many believers have been persuaded by this teaching? But most of all it saddens me that many do not understand sin.
That’s right, if you understood sin this post would not have been written. The origin of Sin will answer one question, but you will have many more at the end of this study. I will stress that sin comes from inside us.
It is our fault we sin - we inherited a nature which is prone to sin Romans 5:12-14. It is because we have a free will to choose between good and evil that we sin. Do you honestly believe the ministering spirits (angels) which bear His name and do His work have free will to choose evil? They dwell in light unapproachable, they are glorified beings who are pure and holy as He is holy.
No, long has the human race laid blame at the feet of a supernatural make believe devil, or in their case some presumed fallen angel. The very thought contradicts all scripture concerning God’s will being done in Heaven.
How could Jesus pray these words if an Angel fell? Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.
So they say its God’s will for angels to sin in Heaven and that Jesus would have a fallable God whose will is not obeyed in heaven to come to earth?
How so – Sin in heaven to be brought to earth?
Christians in the main are thick and that is being nice! They don’t hear the Scriptures they wrest them with human imaginations rather than asking the right questions and receiving the right answers.
Why would you aim for immortality if you could still sin? I hear you thinking "thats not right"
Why would God reward those that diligently seek Him with eternal life, when we are no different to our current state?
What this means is the Scriptures you thought you understood have now become something else! There must be more!
Do you hope of a prospect of becoming an eternal sinner?
?...yes, I know it just doesn’t sound right nor does it fit.
You need to remember "the wages of sin is death"
When you labour at work...your wages is money.
When you sin your wages is death.
Sin leads to death.
If it is not our fault that we sin, but that of the devil, then a just God ought to punish the devil rather than us.
But the fact that we are judged for our own sins shows that we are responsible for our sins.
The concept of the devil being a specific person outside of us, rather than the principle of sin within us is an attempt to move the responsibility for our sins away from ourselves. This is yet another example of men refusing to come to terms with what the Bible teaches about man's nature.
Our nature is fundamentally sinful…as it leads to death and the law has the dominion in our members!
"There is nothing from without a man, that entering into him can defile him...For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders...pride, foolishness: all these evil things come from within and defile the man" (Mk.7:15-23 Jesus Speaking).
The idea that there is something sinful outside of us which enters us and causes us to sin is incompatible with the plain teaching of Jesus here. From within, out of the heart of man, come all these evil things. This is why, at the time of the flood, God considered that "the imagination of man's heart (mind i.e carnal, animal) is evil from his youth"
In other words people were constantly thinking of ways to be evil.
James 1:14 tells us how we are tempted: "Every man (it is the same process for each human being) is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust ("of his own evil desire", N.I.V.) and enticed".
We are tempted by our own lusts, our own evil desires; not by anything outside of us. "From whence come wars and fighting’s among you?", James asks; "Come they not hence, even of your lusts?"
Each of us has specific, personal temptations. They therefore have to be generated by our own evil desires, because they are personal to us. It has been truly said that we are our own worst enemy.
Paul laments: "In me (that is, in my flesh) dwelleth no good thing...for the good that I would I do not...if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me"
(Rom.7:18-21). Now he does not blame his sinning on an external being called the devil.
He located his own evil nature as the real source of sin: "It is not I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. I find then a law (within me), that, when I would do good, evil is present with (i.e. within) me".
So he says that the opposition to being spiritual comes from something that he calls "sin dwelling in me".
David, another undoubtedly a righteous man commented upon the constant sinfulness of his very nature: "I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me"
The Bible is very explicit about wicked nature of man. If this is understood there is no need to invent an imaginary person outside our human natures who is responsible for our sins.
Jer.17:9 says that the heart of man is so desperately wicked and deceitful that we cannot actually appreciate the gross extent of its sinfulness.
Finally, show me where God informs us of a fallen angel.
Chapter, Book and verse.
1. What caused the angel to fall
2. Why wasn’t the sentence of death passed? Rom 6:23
3. If so explain how God is unjust for not passing the same law that binds us to death.
4. Show an understanding from Gen 1-3 of the fallen angel; immortality of the soul
That should be enough to keep you all busy running off you’re many books of knowledge.