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Author Topic: Abraham, Isaac, Pharoah, and Abimelech  (Read 1125 times)
Wycliffes_Shillelagh
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« on: June 22, 2009, 01:05:55 PM »

The Bible tells a story in which Abraham travels to Egypt, lies about his wife being his sister, and, after Pharoah takes her as a wife, God plagues Pharoah's house, the scandal comes out, and Abraham is kicked out of Egypt but gets to keep all the presents he received as a dowry.

Later, it tells a story in which Abe goes to Gerar, lies about his wife being his sister, and, after Abimelech the Philistine king takes her as a wife, God plagues his house, the scandal comes out, and Abraham is kicked out of Gerar but gets to keep all the presents he received as a dowry.

Later still, it tells a story in which Isaac goes to lies about his wife being his sister, and, after Abimelech the Philistine king takes her as a wife, God plagues his house, the scandal comes out, and Isaac is kicked out of Gerar but gets to keep all the presents he received as a dowry.

Are these really 3 seperate events, or are they all one story?
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« Reply #1 on: June 22, 2009, 02:47:31 PM »

I believe those are 3 separate events. I just finished a study of Genesis in our local Community Bible Study group, (CBS) and I believe we talked about "Abimelech" being more of a royal title rather than a particular person. And yes old Abe did tell the same lie twice, once to Pharoah and once to "Abimelech."

From what I remember in the study, Isaac kept up the family trait of lying about his wife being his sister to a decendent of the "Abimelech" that Abraham lied to.

God was blessing the lineage of Abraham and keeping his promise INSPITE of ABE and IZZY screwing up continually. God's grace in the Old Testament.
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« Reply #1 on: June 22, 2009, 02:47:31 PM »

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Wycliffes_Shillelagh
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« Reply #2 on: June 22, 2009, 03:45:09 PM »

So was this Abraham's get-rich-quick scheme?

Sell his wife for a king's dowry, and then get her back and leave town?  If so, it seems God was complicit...
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« Reply #3 on: June 22, 2009, 08:17:40 PM »

I think it shows that Abraham and Isaac were not that special. They were screwups just like us. These stories show that God caused his will to be done, even though the ones he was doing it for didn't deserve it. The very epitome of grace.

**edited for spelling**
« Last Edit: June 23, 2009, 01:00:33 PM by Jaime » Logged

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« Reply #4 on: June 22, 2009, 10:14:09 PM »

The lie about Abrahams wife being his sister wasn't necessarily a lie, she was his sister. Although what he did was a sin and marring your sister to me seems kinda wrong. Step sister maybe, but a half sister?

Besides she actually is my sister, the daughter of my father, not the daughter of my mother, and she became my wife; -Gen 20:12

Yes, like Jaime wrote, it was God's grace.
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Wycliffes_Shillelagh
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« Reply #5 on: June 23, 2009, 12:37:44 PM »

Once could be a mistake.  But 3 times?  And after God bailed him out the first time? 

That seems intentional.

Was Abraham a pimp?
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« Reply #5 on: June 23, 2009, 12:37:44 PM »

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Jaime
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« Reply #6 on: June 23, 2009, 12:52:24 PM »

Once could be a mistake.  But 3 times?  And after God bailed him out the first time?  

That seems intentional.

Was Abraham a pimp?

Twice for Abraham and once for Isaac. I don't know about a pimp, but yes Abraham and Isaac were dufuses or dufi, just like us, as it were.

The entire history of the Hebrew nation was not one of learned lessons, unfortunately.
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« Reply #7 on: June 23, 2009, 01:34:12 PM »

Abimelech must not have been a very bright guy, falling for the same thing twice.
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« Reply #8 on: June 23, 2009, 02:54:05 PM »

Abimelech must not have been a very bright guy, falling for the same thing twice.

It wasn't the same Abimelech. I believe Isaac's confrontation with "Abimelech" was the first one's son or grandson. Again, Abimelech is a royal title of sorts in that era, in that place much like Herod.
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« Reply #9 on: June 23, 2009, 04:31:50 PM »

Abimelech means "my father is the king" and would be the title of a crown prince who is ruling as coregent with his father.

But, if he's ruling concurrently with Daddy, don't you think Daddy might clue him in?
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« Reply #9 on: June 23, 2009, 04:31:50 PM »

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« Reply #10 on: June 23, 2009, 08:57:29 PM »

Wife-Sister Narratives in Genesis
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« Reply #11 on: June 24, 2009, 01:15:25 PM »

OK...time for me to be unpopular...

Abraham didn't lie...it was his sister.

Isaac wasn't guilty of lying either..his "sin" was deception...in the ANE this wasn't percieved equally as lying...a very slight slight...kinda like bumping someone when there isn't room to move.

These stories are as much prophesy as they were history.
Like the parable of the Pearl of great value or the parable of the hidden treasure and the man sells everything he has to purchase the land it is in.

God's "treasure" being "hidden" and often in the hands of another....but it is still his and He claims it and comes out with riches in the end.

The story in Genesis was told three times...Isaac's tale being the disturbing one for many people...considering the multitude of churchs about.
Abimelek/Abimelech is a hebrew word meaning "leader of the angels"

It is one of those "Hebrewism" thingies. The poetry and idioms of speech make the prophesy of it clear...as does the history that has occurred. English isn't a very good receptor language for many of these truths and prophesies.
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« Reply #12 on: June 24, 2009, 01:18:50 PM »

The point was I think that Abraham and Isaac didn't trust God to protect them in keeping his promises to them. They took matters into their own hands. These stories to me simply show that these great patriarchs of faith are just as weak as you and I. And that God is faithful to keep his promises inspite of our and their weaknesses.
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« Reply #12 on: June 24, 2009, 01:18:50 PM »

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« Reply #13 on: June 24, 2009, 02:45:11 PM »

The point was I think that Abraham and Isaac didn't trust God to protect them in keeping his promises to them. They took matters into their own hands. These stories to me simply show that these great patriarchs of faith are just as weak as you and I. And that God is faithful to keep his promises inspite of our and their weaknesses.

Where what you are saying here as a theological truth is correct...it isn't what is revealed by the scripture being discussed.

As I have discovered by looking at the Hebrew, the Hebrew manners and customs, and the associated teachings of the Jews and have become familiar with their idioms and poetry I changed from the opinion you just gave to another one.

These scriptures speak to the fact that often we feel (and indeed the reality does seem to point in that direction) that we are abandoned and forgotten about by God.
But the truth is that we are one of his most prized possessions...and He is coming for us.
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I wanna die like grandpa, peacefully and in my sleep; not like the passengers in his car...they were all screaming and panicking.
Jaime
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« Reply #14 on: June 24, 2009, 03:16:12 PM »

I don't disagree JohnDB. The fact that we are screwups like Abe and Izzy, has no bearing on his love toward or his faithfulness towards us.
« Last Edit: June 24, 2009, 03:50:22 PM by Jaime » Logged

Proverbs 3: 5-6  Trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding. In all your ways acknowledge Him and He will make your paths straight.

                                          
CLICK HERE ---->My New Blog
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