Welcome, Guest. Login or register to use the forums.
Did you miss your activation email?
March 09, 2010, 02:58:00 PM
Home Help Search Login Register
GCM Home | Bible Search | Rules | Bookstore | Support | Newsletter


+  Christian Forums
|-+  Christian Interests
| |-+  Apologetics Forum
| | |-+  Can God be all powerful and all knowing at the same time?
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic. « previous next »
Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 Go Down Print
Author Topic: Can God be all powerful and all knowing at the same time?  (Read 1875 times)
herlovingmother
Newbie
*

Manna: 0
Offline Offline

Mood:

Posts: 9

Blog entries (0)

View Profile
« Reply #15 on: July 01, 2009, 11:50:04 PM »

I don't know if my opinion matters to anyone, but my view on it is just simply;

God is more than we can comprehend; He is more than a 3-letter word, he is more than our Father, he is outside of space and outside of time... I believe that we don't have the right to put restrictions on him because we can't even comprehend things that actually happen and are real - right here on earth. He created all of us, all of these things... He is the alpha and omega... He is my Creator, my Father, Jesus Christ, my savior, and He is all I need.....

I think that when those things finally come to you, it isn't hard to realize that he can be all-powerful and all-knowing.

He is so amazing :)  Praying
Logged
Cally
I am Christian. The rest is details.
Senior Member
****

Manna: 57
Offline Offline

Mood:

Gender: Male
Posts: 1418


Blog entries (0)

View Profile
« Reply #16 on: July 02, 2009, 01:41:52 AM »

If I knew the future, why would I set something into motion and change my mind later? God never changes.

But God set things into motion, and knew in advance when he would show up and express himself in our realtime. To us it's "changes" but to him it was pre-planned. God goes through everything. I can't find the referrence, but in Job it says that all living things have his breath, and if withdrawn, everyone would die.

God goes through everything, and gives everything existence. Hence his name being "I am", and "the Alpha and the Omega, Beginning and the End, the first and the Last."

« Last Edit: July 02, 2009, 02:09:39 AM by Cally » Logged

I am in need of being reminded of things that God has already taught me.

Trust me--I'm not like most people. 90% of the time, I'm straight-faced and it really isn't personal.
Christian Forums
« Reply #16 on: July 02, 2009, 01:41:52 AM »

 Logged
Jimmy
Legendary Member
******

Manna: 167
Online Online

Mood:

Posts: 5984

Blog entries (0)

View Profile
« Reply #17 on: July 02, 2009, 06:58:15 PM »

Hi everybody,

I would like to know if you all believe that God knows everything and can do anything?

Is this possible, and is it the truthful way (in your mind) to think about God?

thanks in advance,


Matt  Smile
The standard Reformed, orthodox position is that God is both all-knowing, and all-powerful, as theology explains those terms about God.

Others have said that their view is that God knows everything that can be known. I happen to believe similarly except that my definition says that God knows everything that has happened. I don't know that He knows what's going to happen next Tuesday, because next Tuesday hasn't happened yet. On the other hand, I do believe God can make anything happen that He wants to happen. These views are not orthodox, but they work for me.

I am assuming here that you do not believe that God is somehow trapped by the space that He created when He created the universe.  I am assuming also that you believe that God could present Himself anywhere amd everywhere in space any time He wished and in fact is not constrained to exist within the confines of the space of this physical universe.

Why then do you think that God has somehow been trapped by the time that He created when He created the universe?  Why would you not believe that God could present Himself anytime and everytime He wished--past, present and future?  Why do you assume that God does not or cannot exist completely outside of and apart from the confines of time of this physical universe?
....because there is no compelling evidence to say that if something hasn't happened, it really has.

Before the world was created, it didn't exist. There was nothing to see - from any point in time.

I don't believe "time" exists. Time is simply a measurement of change. If the change hasn't happened, it hasn't happened.

You may be viewing time only from the perspective that you have experienced.  That may in fact be a very narrow perspective.  In the same way it is very difficult to perceive this universe as finite and yet unique in the sense that there is nothing else.  Yet none of us think of God as being constrained within the confines of the physical space of this universe.  Why do that with time?  If God can exist outside of the space of the universe, why would you not think God can exist outside the time of the universe?

Just as space did not exist before creation, so also time did not exist before creation.  At least not the phyiscal entity that we know.  Is there spiritual space and time?  Who knows but God?  But I am convinced that He is not constrained by it in any way whatsoever.
Logged
Jaime
(Pronounced Hi-Me, not Ja-Me)
Global Moderator
Lee's Inner Circle Member
*****

Manna: 373
Online Online

Mood:

Gender: Male
Posts: 13324


I am a genius you know!

Blog entries (1)

View Profile
« Reply #18 on: July 02, 2009, 10:05:27 PM »

I believe God exists simultaneously in the past, present and the future. He didn"t have to predict the future in jis prophecies, he was experiencing them. He knows the beginning from the end because he exists in the beginning and the end simultaneously. We can't comprehend it because we are constrained by time and space. For us to articulate this is like a two dimensional sheet of paper trying to explain a three dimensional sphere to another two dimensional sheet of paper. I believe the scripoture that refers to Jesus being crucified from the foundation of the world means that God was experiencing sacrificing his son and the foundation of the world simultaneously.
Logged

Proverbs 3: 5-6  Trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding. In all your ways acknowledge Him and He will make your paths straight.

                                          
CLICK HERE ---->My New Blog
Cally
I am Christian. The rest is details.
Senior Member
****

Manna: 57
Offline Offline

Mood:

Gender: Male
Posts: 1418


Blog entries (0)

View Profile
« Reply #19 on: July 02, 2009, 10:21:07 PM »

I believe God exists simultaneously in the past, present and the future. He didn"t have to predict the future in jis prophecies, he was experiencing them. He knows the beginning from the end because he exists in the beginning and the end simultaneously. We can't comprehend it because we are constrained by time and space. For us to articulate this is like a two dimensional sheet of paper trying to explain a three dimensional sphere to another two dimensional sheet of paper. I believe the scripoture that refers to Jesus being crucified from the foundation of the world means that God was experiencing sacrificing his son and the foundation of the world simultaneously.

Good imagery. I always liked referring to God's "creation of the timeline" as sort his own personal film reel. To him it's finished, to the ones in the film (us) we don't know what's next.
Logged

I am in need of being reminded of things that God has already taught me.

Trust me--I'm not like most people. 90% of the time, I'm straight-faced and it really isn't personal.
HRoberson
Hero
*****

Manna: 168
Offline Offline

Mood:

Posts: 3328


Blog entries (0)

View Profile WWW
« Reply #20 on: July 02, 2009, 10:48:51 PM »

Hi everybody,

I would like to know if you all believe that God knows everything and can do anything?

Is this possible, and is it the truthful way (in your mind) to think about God?

thanks in advance,


Matt  Smile
The standard Reformed, orthodox position is that God is both all-knowing, and all-powerful, as theology explains those terms about God.

Others have said that their view is that God knows everything that can be known. I happen to believe similarly except that my definition says that God knows everything that has happened. I don't know that He knows what's going to happen next Tuesday, because next Tuesday hasn't happened yet. On the other hand, I do believe God can make anything happen that He wants to happen. These views are not orthodox, but they work for me.

I am assuming here that you do not believe that God is somehow trapped by the space that He created when He created the universe.  I am assuming also that you believe that God could present Himself anywhere amd everywhere in space any time He wished and in fact is not constrained to exist within the confines of the space of this physical universe.

Why then do you think that God has somehow been trapped by the time that He created when He created the universe?  Why would you not believe that God could present Himself anytime and everytime He wished--past, present and future?  Why do you assume that God does not or cannot exist completely outside of and apart from the confines of time of this physical universe?
....because there is no compelling evidence to say that if something hasn't happened, it really has.

Before the world was created, it didn't exist. There was nothing to see - from any point in time.

I don't believe "time" exists. Time is simply a measurement of change. If the change hasn't happened, it hasn't happened.

You may be viewing time only from the perspective that you have experienced.  That may in fact be a very narrow perspective.  In the same way it is very difficult to perceive this universe as finite and yet unique in the sense that there is nothing else.  Yet none of us think of God as being constrained within the confines of the physical space of this universe.  Why do that with time?  If God can exist outside of the space of the universe, why would you not think God can exist outside the time of the universe?

Just as space did not exist before creation, so also time did not exist before creation.  At least not the phyiscal entity that we know.  Is there spiritual space and time?  Who knows but God?  But I am convinced that He is not constrained by it in any way whatsoever.
Has the world always existed?

Simple question, yes or no.
Logged

HRoberson, MC, MS, LMFT
The Enlightened One
Wizard of Smart
aC, LP, MC, BfS, Coop, SS, nKJV, EoG

I didn't say it was your fault. I said I was going to blame you.

...to love mercy, act justly, and walk humbly with God

Sometimes you just have to let it go.

http://www.robersonblog.blogspot.com
Christian Forums
« Reply #20 on: July 02, 2009, 10:48:51 PM »

 Logged
Jimmy
Legendary Member
******

Manna: 167
Online Online

Mood:

Posts: 5984

Blog entries (0)

View Profile
« Reply #21 on: July 05, 2009, 07:23:24 AM »

Hi everybody,

I would like to know if you all believe that God knows everything and can do anything?

Is this possible, and is it the truthful way (in your mind) to think about God?

thanks in advance,


Matt  Smile
The standard Reformed, orthodox position is that God is both all-knowing, and all-powerful, as theology explains those terms about God.

Others have said that their view is that God knows everything that can be known. I happen to believe similarly except that my definition says that God knows everything that has happened. I don't know that He knows what's going to happen next Tuesday, because next Tuesday hasn't happened yet. On the other hand, I do believe God can make anything happen that He wants to happen. These views are not orthodox, but they work for me.

I am assuming here that you do not believe that God is somehow trapped by the space that He created when He created the universe.  I am assuming also that you believe that God could present Himself anywhere amd everywhere in space any time He wished and in fact is not constrained to exist within the confines of the space of this physical universe.

Why then do you think that God has somehow been trapped by the time that He created when He created the universe?  Why would you not believe that God could present Himself anytime and everytime He wished--past, present and future?  Why do you assume that God does not or cannot exist completely outside of and apart from the confines of time of this physical universe?
....because there is no compelling evidence to say that if something hasn't happened, it really has.

Before the world was created, it didn't exist. There was nothing to see - from any point in time.

I don't believe "time" exists. Time is simply a measurement of change. If the change hasn't happened, it hasn't happened.

You may be viewing time only from the perspective that you have experienced.  That may in fact be a very narrow perspective.  In the same way it is very difficult to perceive this universe as finite and yet unique in the sense that there is nothing else.  Yet none of us think of God as being constrained within the confines of the physical space of this universe.  Why do that with time?  If God can exist outside of the space of the universe, why would you not think God can exist outside the time of the universe?

Just as space did not exist before creation, so also time did not exist before creation.  At least not the phyiscal entity that we know.  Is there spiritual space and time?  Who knows but God?  But I am convinced that He is not constrained by it in any way whatsoever.
Has the world always existed?

Simple question, yes or no.

No.  The world, this physical universe, had a beginning.
Logged
HRoberson
Hero
*****

Manna: 168
Offline Offline

Mood:

Posts: 3328


Blog entries (0)

View Profile WWW
« Reply #22 on: July 06, 2009, 10:49:41 PM »

Hi everybody,

I would like to know if you all believe that God knows everything and can do anything?

Is this possible, and is it the truthful way (in your mind) to think about God?

thanks in advance,


Matt  Smile
The standard Reformed, orthodox position is that God is both all-knowing, and all-powerful, as theology explains those terms about God.

Others have said that their view is that God knows everything that can be known. I happen to believe similarly except that my definition says that God knows everything that has happened. I don't know that He knows what's going to happen next Tuesday, because next Tuesday hasn't happened yet. On the other hand, I do believe God can make anything happen that He wants to happen. These views are not orthodox, but they work for me.

I am assuming here that you do not believe that God is somehow trapped by the space that He created when He created the universe.  I am assuming also that you believe that God could present Himself anywhere amd everywhere in space any time He wished and in fact is not constrained to exist within the confines of the space of this physical universe.

Why then do you think that God has somehow been trapped by the time that He created when He created the universe?  Why would you not believe that God could present Himself anytime and everytime He wished--past, present and future?  Why do you assume that God does not or cannot exist completely outside of and apart from the confines of time of this physical universe?
....because there is no compelling evidence to say that if something hasn't happened, it really has.

Before the world was created, it didn't exist. There was nothing to see - from any point in time.

I don't believe "time" exists. Time is simply a measurement of change. If the change hasn't happened, it hasn't happened.

You may be viewing time only from the perspective that you have experienced.  That may in fact be a very narrow perspective.  In the same way it is very difficult to perceive this universe as finite and yet unique in the sense that there is nothing else.  Yet none of us think of God as being constrained within the confines of the physical space of this universe.  Why do that with time?  If God can exist outside of the space of the universe, why would you not think God can exist outside the time of the universe?

Just as space did not exist before creation, so also time did not exist before creation.  At least not the phyiscal entity that we know.  Is there spiritual space and time?  Who knows but God?  But I am convinced that He is not constrained by it in any way whatsoever.
Has the world always existed?

Simple question, yes or no.

No.  The world, this physical universe, had a beginning.
If that's the case, then there was a change when God made it. That change represented a new development for both the world and God. God did not see the world before it was because He hadn't made it. God then, experiences time and if He can experience time, then there are things that exist and those things that are yet to exist.
God does not see it all in a jumble, at one time.
Logged

HRoberson, MC, MS, LMFT
The Enlightened One
Wizard of Smart
aC, LP, MC, BfS, Coop, SS, nKJV, EoG

I didn't say it was your fault. I said I was going to blame you.

...to love mercy, act justly, and walk humbly with God

Sometimes you just have to let it go.

http://www.robersonblog.blogspot.com
Karl
Member
***

Manna: 3
Offline Offline

Mood:

Posts: 41

Blog entries (0)

View Profile
« Reply #23 on: July 07, 2009, 01:21:26 AM »

Time is something marked of by a series of events, the swept of a second hand, the turning of the earth, sands following through an opening, ect…

So as the creator, God created time by putting a series of events into place. “Let there be light”

It is obvious that God has a plan, and a plan so detailed that He knew us from the beginning. It’s not that we existed then, but He knew exactly what He was going to create before He started creating.
It that sense alone, you could call Him all knowing.

Now then, any power that was or is given, is part of this detailed plan. So then all powerful also comes into play.

We sometimes think of Satan as being so powerful, that he actually can give God a challenge, but in the end a single angel just comes down lays hold of Satan and binds him up of a thousand years. Then Satan is let go again, because it is part of the plan, then thrown in the lake of fire when that part of the plan is over.

Also concerning God creating a stone so big that He himself cannot move it; God did make such a stone!

The law was written on stone, so spiritually speaking and stone is a principle or rule that God makes that cannot be changed. If God creates a rule that He says shall not be broken, then can He himself break it? No, otherwise He would be a liar, and He can’t lie.

Jesus, the One through whom all things were created, said He couldn’t do great miracle because of people’s lack of faith. Certainly He could do them except that He set forth a rule concerning faith. Obviously at least part of the reason for the rule was to bring us into a closer relationship with Him, because faith comes from hearing, and listening to someone brings you into a closer relationship with that someone.

So He made a stone so big that He can’t move it, but we can, if we choose to listen.
Logged
Ciscokid
Member
***

Manna: 4
Offline Offline

Mood:

Gender: Male
Posts: 266


Blog entries (0)

View Profile
« Reply #24 on: July 09, 2009, 07:49:31 AM »



         Cisco I wanted to quote you but I lost it so I'll just paraphrase,You said GOD couldn't" stop you from driving to work tomorrow.            Well,it wouldn't require the Power of GOD to keep you from driving to work tomorrow.  You could be stopped by anyone with a quarter pound of alum and the knowledge of where you parked that car at night.
Yes GOD is all powerful and has all knowledge and that's only two of HIS qualities.


I disagree 100%.  If God foresee's that I will drive to work, then nothing could stop that.  If something could, then God can't foresee accurately.
Logged
Christian Forums
« Reply #24 on: July 09, 2009, 07:49:31 AM »

 Logged
Jimmy
Legendary Member
******

Manna: 167
Online Online

Mood:

Posts: 5984

Blog entries (0)

View Profile
« Reply #25 on: July 10, 2009, 05:47:50 AM »

Hi everybody,

I would like to know if you all believe that God knows everything and can do anything?

Is this possible, and is it the truthful way (in your mind) to think about God?

thanks in advance,


Matt  Smile
The standard Reformed, orthodox position is that God is both all-knowing, and all-powerful, as theology explains those terms about God.

Others have said that their view is that God knows everything that can be known. I happen to believe similarly except that my definition says that God knows everything that has happened. I don't know that He knows what's going to happen next Tuesday, because next Tuesday hasn't happened yet. On the other hand, I do believe God can make anything happen that He wants to happen. These views are not orthodox, but they work for me.

I am assuming here that you do not believe that God is somehow trapped by the space that He created when He created the universe.  I am assuming also that you believe that God could present Himself anywhere amd everywhere in space any time He wished and in fact is not constrained to exist within the confines of the space of this physical universe.

Why then do you think that God has somehow been trapped by the time that He created when He created the universe?  Why would you not believe that God could present Himself anytime and everytime He wished--past, present and future?  Why do you assume that God does not or cannot exist completely outside of and apart from the confines of time of this physical universe?
....because there is no compelling evidence to say that if something hasn't happened, it really has.

Before the world was created, it didn't exist. There was nothing to see - from any point in time.

I don't believe "time" exists. Time is simply a measurement of change. If the change hasn't happened, it hasn't happened.

You may be viewing time only from the perspective that you have experienced.  That may in fact be a very narrow perspective.  In the same way it is very difficult to perceive this universe as finite and yet unique in the sense that there is nothing else.  Yet none of us think of God as being constrained within the confines of the physical space of this universe.  Why do that with time?  If God can exist outside of the space of the universe, why would you not think God can exist outside the time of the universe?

Just as space did not exist before creation, so also time did not exist before creation.  At least not the phyiscal entity that we know.  Is there spiritual space and time?  Who knows but God?  But I am convinced that He is not constrained by it in any way whatsoever.
Has the world always existed?

Simple question, yes or no.

No.  The world, this physical universe, had a beginning.
If that's the case, then there was a change when God made it. That change represented a new development for both the world and God. God did not see the world before it was because He hadn't made it. God then, experiences time and if He can experience time, then there are things that exist and those things that are yet to exist.
God does not see it all in a jumble, at one time.

That means that the physical universe that God created somehow effects the spiritual realm.  That doesn't make sense.  The well known verse in 2 Peter says about time,

2Pe 3:8  But do not let this one fact escape your notice, beloved, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

That is not some formula of God days and years.  It means simply that time has no meaning for God.  As difficult as it is to comprehend, it really describes the fact that God is not bound or constrained by time.  We do not have a problem thinking that God can be anywhere and everywhere. But the idea of His being "anytime and everytime" is a difficult one  simply because of how we experience time.

You think it would be a jumble.  Do you see your past as a jumble? If you had perfect recollection of your past, would that be a jumble? No, not at all.  Perhaps that is what the Psalmist was trying to say,

Psa 90:4  For a thousand years in Thy sight Are like yesterday when it passes by, Or as a watch in the night.

God sees the past and the future as you see the past.
Logged
Jimmy
Legendary Member
******

Manna: 167
Online Online

Mood:

Posts: 5984

Blog entries (0)

View Profile
« Reply #26 on: July 10, 2009, 05:54:24 AM »



         Cisco I wanted to quote you but I lost it so I'll just paraphrase,You said GOD couldn't" stop you from driving to work tomorrow.            Well,it wouldn't require the Power of GOD to keep you from driving to work tomorrow.  You could be stopped by anyone with a quarter pound of alum and the knowledge of where you parked that car at night.
Yes GOD is all powerful and has all knowledge and that's only two of HIS qualities.

I disagree 100%.  If God foresee's that I will drive to work, then nothing could stop that.  If something could, then God can't foresee accurately.

That doesn't even make sense.  Whatever you end up doing, that is what God saw before you did it.  He saw it just microseconds before.  He saw it minutes before.  He saw it hours, days, years before.  He saw it before anything.
Logged
HRoberson
Hero
*****

Manna: 168
Offline Offline

Mood:

Posts: 3328


Blog entries (0)

View Profile WWW
« Reply #27 on: July 10, 2009, 01:36:34 PM »

Hi everybody,

I would like to know if you all believe that God knows everything and can do anything?

Is this possible, and is it the truthful way (in your mind) to think about God?

thanks in advance,


Matt  Smile
The standard Reformed, orthodox position is that God is both all-knowing, and all-powerful, as theology explains those terms about God.

Others have said that their view is that God knows everything that can be known. I happen to believe similarly except that my definition says that God knows everything that has happened. I don't know that He knows what's going to happen next Tuesday, because next Tuesday hasn't happened yet. On the other hand, I do believe God can make anything happen that He wants to happen. These views are not orthodox, but they work for me.

I am assuming here that you do not believe that God is somehow trapped by the space that He created when He created the universe.  I am assuming also that you believe that God could present Himself anywhere amd everywhere in space any time He wished and in fact is not constrained to exist within the confines of the space of this physical universe.

Why then do you think that God has somehow been trapped by the time that He created when He created the universe?  Why would you not believe that God could present Himself anytime and everytime He wished--past, present and future?  Why do you assume that God does not or cannot exist completely outside of and apart from the confines of time of this physical universe?
....because there is no compelling evidence to say that if something hasn't happened, it really has.

Before the world was created, it didn't exist. There was nothing to see - from any point in time.

I don't believe "time" exists. Time is simply a measurement of change. If the change hasn't happened, it hasn't happened.

You may be viewing time only from the perspective that you have experienced.  That may in fact be a very narrow perspective.  In the same way it is very difficult to perceive this universe as finite and yet unique in the sense that there is nothing else.  Yet none of us think of God as being constrained within the confines of the physical space of this universe.  Why do that with time?  If God can exist outside of the space of the universe, why would you not think God can exist outside the time of the universe?

Just as space did not exist before creation, so also time did not exist before creation.  At least not the phyiscal entity that we know.  Is there spiritual space and time?  Who knows but God?  But I am convinced that He is not constrained by it in any way whatsoever.
Has the world always existed?

Simple question, yes or no.

No.  The world, this physical universe, had a beginning.
If that's the case, then there was a change when God made it. That change represented a new development for both the world and God. God did not see the world before it was because He hadn't made it. God then, experiences time and if He can experience time, then there are things that exist and those things that are yet to exist.
God does not see it all in a jumble, at one time.

That means that the physical universe that God created somehow effects the spiritual realm.  That doesn't make sense.  The well known verse in 2 Peter says about time,

2Pe 3:8  But do not let this one fact escape your notice, beloved, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

That is not some formula of God days and years.  It means simply that time has no meaning for God.  As difficult as it is to comprehend, it really describes the fact that God is not bound or constrained by time.  We do not have a problem thinking that God can be anywhere and everywhere. But the idea of His being "anytime and everytime" is a difficult one  simply because of how we experience time.

You think it would be a jumble.  Do you see your past as a jumble? If you had perfect recollection of your past, would that be a jumble? No, not at all.  Perhaps that is what the Psalmist was trying to say,

Psa 90:4  For a thousand years in Thy sight Are like yesterday when it passes by, Or as a watch in the night.

God sees the past and the future as you see the past.
The two realms affect each other. The orthodox argument against dualism and gnosticism proves that point. The simple fact is that God does not - yea, cannot see - anything that doesn't exist simply because it does not exist. He may know He's going to make it, but He hasn't made it yet. The only way God can travel into the future - or to see the future would require that time be an entity. It isn't. It is simply a measurement of change. God cannot go into the future that doesn't exist any more than you or I can. In the same manner, God cannot see a future that hasn't existed. Yes, He may know what He's going to do in that future, but He cannot see that actual future.
Logged

HRoberson, MC, MS, LMFT
The Enlightened One
Wizard of Smart
aC, LP, MC, BfS, Coop, SS, nKJV, EoG

I didn't say it was your fault. I said I was going to blame you.

...to love mercy, act justly, and walk humbly with God

Sometimes you just have to let it go.

http://www.robersonblog.blogspot.com
Christian Forums
« Reply #27 on: July 10, 2009, 01:36:34 PM »

 Logged
Jimmy
Legendary Member
******

Manna: 167
Online Online

Mood:

Posts: 5984

Blog entries (0)

View Profile
« Reply #28 on: July 10, 2009, 04:16:53 PM »

Hi everybody,

I would like to know if you all believe that God knows everything and can do anything?

Is this possible, and is it the truthful way (in your mind) to think about God?

thanks in advance,


Matt  Smile
The standard Reformed, orthodox position is that God is both all-knowing, and all-powerful, as theology explains those terms about God.

Others have said that their view is that God knows everything that can be known. I happen to believe similarly except that my definition says that God knows everything that has happened. I don't know that He knows what's going to happen next Tuesday, because next Tuesday hasn't happened yet. On the other hand, I do believe God can make anything happen that He wants to happen. These views are not orthodox, but they work for me.

I am assuming here that you do not believe that God is somehow trapped by the space that He created when He created the universe.  I am assuming also that you believe that God could present Himself anywhere amd everywhere in space any time He wished and in fact is not constrained to exist within the confines of the space of this physical universe.

Why then do you think that God has somehow been trapped by the time that He created when He created the universe?  Why would you not believe that God could present Himself anytime and everytime He wished--past, present and future?  Why do you assume that God does not or cannot exist completely outside of and apart from the confines of time of this physical universe?
....because there is no compelling evidence to say that if something hasn't happened, it really has.

Before the world was created, it didn't exist. There was nothing to see - from any point in time.

I don't believe "time" exists. Time is simply a measurement of change. If the change hasn't happened, it hasn't happened.

You may be viewing time only from the perspective that you have experienced.  That may in fact be a very narrow perspective.  In the same way it is very difficult to perceive this universe as finite and yet unique in the sense that there is nothing else.  Yet none of us think of God as being constrained within the confines of the physical space of this universe.  Why do that with time?  If God can exist outside of the space of the universe, why would you not think God can exist outside the time of the universe?

Just as space did not exist before creation, so also time did not exist before creation.  At least not the phyiscal entity that we know.  Is there spiritual space and time?  Who knows but God?  But I am convinced that He is not constrained by it in any way whatsoever.
Has the world always existed?

Simple question, yes or no.

No.  The world, this physical universe, had a beginning.
If that's the case, then there was a change when God made it. That change represented a new development for both the world and God. God did not see the world before it was because He hadn't made it. God then, experiences time and if He can experience time, then there are things that exist and those things that are yet to exist.
God does not see it all in a jumble, at one time.

That means that the physical universe that God created somehow effects the spiritual realm.  That doesn't make sense.  The well known verse in 2 Peter says about time,

2Pe 3:8  But do not let this one fact escape your notice, beloved, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

That is not some formula of God days and years.  It means simply that time has no meaning for God.  As difficult as it is to comprehend, it really describes the fact that God is not bound or constrained by time.  We do not have a problem thinking that God can be anywhere and everywhere. But the idea of His being "anytime and everytime" is a difficult one  simply because of how we experience time.

You think it would be a jumble.  Do you see your past as a jumble? If you had perfect recollection of your past, would that be a jumble? No, not at all.  Perhaps that is what the Psalmist was trying to say,

Psa 90:4  For a thousand years in Thy sight Are like yesterday when it passes by, Or as a watch in the night.

God sees the past and the future as you see the past.
The two realms affect each other. The orthodox argument against dualism and gnosticism proves that point. The simple fact is that God does not - yea, cannot see - anything that doesn't exist simply because it does not exist. He may know He's going to make it, but He hasn't made it yet. The only way God can travel into the future - or to see the future would require that time be an entity. It isn't. It is simply a measurement of change. God cannot go into the future that doesn't exist any more than you or I can. In the same manner, God cannot see a future that hasn't existed. Yes, He may know what He's going to do in that future, but He cannot see that actual future.

Thinking of time as you do is not sound spiritual teaching and it certainly is not sound physics.  Time is not a measurement.  Time is an entity just as space is an entity.  That is the rather profound discovery of Einstein in setting down his theory of relativity.  That is true even of time in the physical realm.  And since space and time are both physical creations, there is nothing to suggest that either even exist outside of the physical creation. In relation to God, we are never given any indication that He is constrained by either of those physical entities.  In His dealings with the physical universe, God does not "go" from one place to another, but rather just "is" everywhere.   So also God in His dealings with the physical universe does not "go" from one time to another, but rather just "is" in every time.  He is the great "I AM";  both in time and space.
Logged
HRoberson
Hero
*****

Manna: 168
Offline Offline

Mood:

Posts: 3328


Blog entries (0)

View Profile WWW
« Reply #29 on: July 10, 2009, 06:44:18 PM »

Hi everybody,

I would like to know if you all believe that God knows everything and can do anything?

Is this possible, and is it the truthful way (in your mind) to think about God?

thanks in advance,


Matt  Smile
The standard Reformed, orthodox position is that God is both all-knowing, and all-powerful, as theology explains those terms about God.

Others have said that their view is that God knows everything that can be known. I happen to believe similarly except that my definition says that God knows everything that has happened. I don't know that He knows what's going to happen next Tuesday, because next Tuesday hasn't happened yet. On the other hand, I do believe God can make anything happen that He wants to happen. These views are not orthodox, but they work for me.

I am assuming here that you do not believe that God is somehow trapped by the space that He created when He created the universe.  I am assuming also that you believe that God could present Himself anywhere amd everywhere in space any time He wished and in fact is not constrained to exist within the confines of the space of this physical universe.

Why then do you think that God has somehow been trapped by the time that He created when He created the universe?  Why would you not believe that God could present Himself anytime and everytime He wished--past, present and future?  Why do you assume that God does not or cannot exist completely outside of and apart from the confines of time of this physical universe?
....because there is no compelling evidence to say that if something hasn't happened, it really has.

Before the world was created, it didn't exist. There was nothing to see - from any point in time.

I don't believe "time" exists. Time is simply a measurement of change. If the change hasn't happened, it hasn't happened.

You may be viewing time only from the perspective that you have experienced.  That may in fact be a very narrow perspective.  In the same way it is very difficult to perceive this universe as finite and yet unique in the sense that there is nothing else.  Yet none of us think of God as being constrained within the confines of the physical space of this universe.  Why do that with time?  If God can exist outside of the space of the universe, why would you not think God can exist outside the time of the universe?

Just as space did not exist before creation, so also time did not exist before creation.  At least not the phyiscal entity that we know.  Is there spiritual space and time?  Who knows but God?  But I am convinced that He is not constrained by it in any way whatsoever.
Has the world always existed?

Simple question, yes or no.

No.  The world, this physical universe, had a beginning.
If that's the case, then there was a change when God made it. That change represented a new development for both the world and God. God did not see the world before it was because He hadn't made it. God then, experiences time and if He can experience time, then there are things that exist and those things that are yet to exist.
God does not see it all in a jumble, at one time.

That means that the physical universe that God created somehow effects the spiritual realm.  That doesn't make sense.  The well known verse in 2 Peter says about time,

2Pe 3:8  But do not let this one fact escape your notice, beloved, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

That is not some formula of God days and years.  It means simply that time has no meaning for God.  As difficult as it is to comprehend, it really describes the fact that God is not bound or constrained by time.  We do not have a problem thinking that God can be anywhere and everywhere. But the idea of His being "anytime and everytime" is a difficult one  simply because of how we experience time.

You think it would be a jumble.  Do you see your past as a jumble? If you had perfect recollection of your past, would that be a jumble? No, not at all.  Perhaps that is what the Psalmist was trying to say,

Psa 90:4  For a thousand years in Thy sight Are like yesterday when it passes by, Or as a watch in the night.

God sees the past and the future as you see the past.
The two realms affect each other. The orthodox argument against dualism and gnosticism proves that point. The simple fact is that God does not - yea, cannot see - anything that doesn't exist simply because it does not exist. He may know He's going to make it, but He hasn't made it yet. The only way God can travel into the future - or to see the future would require that time be an entity. It isn't. It is simply a measurement of change. God cannot go into the future that doesn't exist any more than you or I can. In the same manner, God cannot see a future that hasn't existed. Yes, He may know what He's going to do in that future, but He cannot see that actual future.

Thinking of time as you do is not sound spiritual teaching and it certainly is not sound physics.  Time is not a measurement.  Time is an entity just as space is an entity.  That is the rather profound discovery of Einstein in setting down his theory of relativity.  That is true even of time in the physical realm.  And since space and time are both physical creations, there is nothing to suggest that either even exist outside of the physical creation. In relation to God, we are never given any indication that He is constrained by either of those physical entities.  In His dealings with the physical universe, God does not "go" from one place to another, but rather just "is" everywhere.   So also God in His dealings with the physical universe does not "go" from one time to another, but rather just "is" in every time.  He is the great "I AM";  both in time and space.
No, time is simply a measurement. We have (roughly) 24 hours in a day because we've noticed that's about how long it takes for the Earth to rotate. The time under consideration is simply a marking of of what appears to be the Sun moving around the Earth.

It simply isn't necessarily fact that God does anything the way we've been taught He does. Our concepts are our feeble attempts to get our minds around things we don't understand. The problem is that we often build concepts upon concepts and end up confusing ourselves. We begin by convincing ourselves that God in all-knowing, move to that He must then know the future, then decide that He can move up and down time as He wills - all so that our initial concept can remain "true."
Logged

HRoberson, MC, MS, LMFT
The Enlightened One
Wizard of Smart
aC, LP, MC, BfS, Coop, SS, nKJV, EoG

I didn't say it was your fault. I said I was going to blame you.

...to love mercy, act justly, and walk humbly with God

Sometimes you just have to let it go.

http://www.robersonblog.blogspot.com
Can God be all powerful and all knowing at the same time? - Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 Go Up Print 
« previous next »
Jump to:  



Login with username, password and session length

Grace-Centered Christian Forums
Bible concordance | abortion ticker | is God real? | galaga | play tetris | copter game | mini golf games | arcade | donkey kong | Christian marriage help | articles | privacy
Powered by SMF | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines LLC