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Author Topic: Darwin and Hitler  (Read 2529 times)
BondServant
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« on: November 03, 2009, 01:31:52 PM »

The connection is both shocking and appalling.

http://www.trueorigin.org/holocaust.asp

http://www.thedarwinpapers.com/oldsite/number13/number13.html

In Christ,
KP
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Jimmy
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« Reply #1 on: November 03, 2009, 02:55:49 PM »

That is guilt by association.  Does the horrific effects and results of the crusades which were based upon a Christian belief in the holiness of the city of Jerusalem mean that Christianity is horrific as well?  Do the Jim Jones and David Koreshes of the world nulify the authenticity of Christianity?

Do not get carried away by the evil of Hitler as any sort of condemnation of evolution.  It has no bearing on the legitimacy or lack thereof of evolution.
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« Reply #1 on: November 03, 2009, 02:55:49 PM »

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Wycliffes_Shillelagh
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« Reply #2 on: November 03, 2009, 03:36:46 PM »

Agreed.

There is plenty of evidence to implicate Darwin of racism based on just his own writings.  No need to try and lump him in with Hitler.

And all of that means nothing at all about whether his theory is right or not. 

"Just because I'm a &*@#!%, that  doesn't make me wrong"

-Jarrod
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BondServant
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« Reply #3 on: November 04, 2009, 11:13:26 AM »

No, not guilt by association...it is proof of what Darwinism leads too.

The Nazis used Darwins principles to justify their own form of Darwinism...social darwinism (not promulgated by Darwin, but from his theories).

In Christ,
KP
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Wycliffes_Shillelagh
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« Reply #4 on: November 04, 2009, 01:07:58 PM »

I don't know if that's a valid cause-effect, k-p.

If you read Darwin, he's already startlingly racist on his own merits.  He quite blatantly proposes as part of his theory that black people are black because they are "less evolved" and "closer to being apes."  If that isn't racist, I'll eat my head.

I'd say its more an affinity of like ideals than a cause-effect.

But let's be honest here.  The point of this thread is to throw aspersions on the theory of evolution.  And this really isn't a valid tac to take to do that.

Jarrod
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Victor08
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« Reply #5 on: November 04, 2009, 02:07:41 PM »

No, not guilt by association...it is proof of what Darwinism leads too.

The Nazis used Darwins principles to justify their own form of Darwinism...social darwinism (not promulgated by Darwin, but from his theories).

In Christ,
KP

The Bible also had an influence on Hitler. What does that prove?

From http://www.nobeliefs.com/HitlerBible.htm

Interestingly, Hitler's introduction immediately starts with the Bible and then follows with The Aryan, His Works (presumably the Aryan works), The Jew, and His Work (presumably the Jew's work).

Then comes the 1st item of his outline, The Bible-- Monumental History of Mankind, with the "Children of God and Men", "Basic Race law," "First people's history (based on) the race law" and "Eternal course of History," all under the subset of The Bible-- Monumental History of Mankind. This bears importance because it shows Hitler here connecting his racial thoughts directly with the Bible which he apparently thought of as not only the actual history of mankind but a Monumental one at that. He sees humans as two types, "Children of God and Men." There's no question that Hitler thought of Aryans as separate and superior to Jews, as he so often expressed. The obvious interpretation here means that The Aryans represented the children of God (the Builders) and the Jews as the children of Men (destroyers).

And

Many American books, television documentaries, and Sunday sermons that preach of Hitler's "evil" have eliminated Hitler's god for their Christian audiences, but one only has to read from his own writings to appreciate that Hitler's God equals the same God of the Christian Bible. Hitler held many hysterical beliefs which not only include, God and Providence but also Fate, Social Darwinism, and ideological politics. He spoke, unashamedly, about God, fanaticism, idealism, dogma, and the power of propaganda. Hitler held strong faith in all his convictions. He justified his fight for the German people and against Jews by using Godly and Biblical reasoning. Indeed, one of his most revealing statements makes this quite clear:

"Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord."

Although Hitler did not practice religion in a churchly sense, he certainly believed in the Bible's God. Raised as Catholic he went to a monastery school and, interestingly, walked everyday past a stone arch which was carved the monastery's coat of arms which included a swastika. As a young boy, Hitler's most ardent goal was to become a priest. Much of his philosophy came from the Bible, and more influentially, from the Christian Social movement. (The German Christian Social movement, remarkably, resembles the Christian Right movement in America today.) Many have questioned Hitler's stand on Christianity. Although he fought against certain Catholic priests who opposed him for political reasons, his belief in God and country never left him. Many Christians throughout history have opposed Christian priests for various reasons; this does not necessarily make one against one's own Christian beliefs. Nor did the Vatican's Pope & bishops ever disown him; in fact they blessed him! As evidence to his claimed Christianity, he said:

"My feelings as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded by a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and summoned men to fight against them and who, God's truth! was greatest not as a sufferer but as a fighter. In boundless love as a Christian and as a man I read through the passage which tells us how the Lord at last rose in His might and seized the scourge to drive out of the Temple the brood of vipers and adders. How terrific was His fight for the world against the Jewish poison. To-day, after two thousand years, with deepest emotion I recognize more profoundly than ever before the fact that it was for this that He had to shed His blood upon the Cross. As a Christian I have no duty to allow myself to be cheated, but I have the duty to be a fighter for truth and justice... And if there is anything which could demonstrate that we are acting rightly it is the distress that daily grows. For as a Christian I have also a duty to my own people.

-Adolf Hitler, in a speech on 12 April 1922 (Norman H. Baynes, ed. The Speeches of Adolf Hitler, April 1922-August 1939, Vol. 1 of 2, pp. 19-20, Oxford University Press, 1942)
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« Reply #5 on: November 04, 2009, 02:07:41 PM »

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BondServant
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« Reply #6 on: November 04, 2009, 02:58:27 PM »

W,

Don't pretent to know my motives.  You don't.  I don't need to throw in Hitler to discredit Darwinism.  The point of this thread was to show the connection.  Period.  I, for one, was shocked when I found out.  I am not surprised that evolutionists will try to discredit this point, or try to discredit Christianity, but I am surprised at the connection.

V,

My Darwinists started out believing in God and then became atheists after coming to believe in Evolution.  Hitler was the same way.

In Christ,
KP
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Ciscokid
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« Reply #7 on: November 04, 2009, 04:51:47 PM »

Let's keep in mind Darwin was a human, therefore he was wrong on many occasions.  This fact has no bearing on the theory of evolution.
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Victor08
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« Reply #8 on: November 04, 2009, 05:00:57 PM »

Evolution is neither good nor evil. It is like the eruption of a volcano.

If you live on the slope it is bad.

Hundreds of miles away and it causes beautiful sunsets, it is good.
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Wycliffes_Shillelagh
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« Reply #9 on: November 04, 2009, 05:06:56 PM »

W,

Don't pretent to know my motives.  You don't.  I don't need to throw in Hitler to discredit Darwinism.  The point of this thread was to show the connection.  Period.  I, for one, was shocked when I found out.  I am not surprised that evolutionists will try to discredit this point, or try to discredit Christianity, but I am surprised at the connection.
Pretend?  I'm just calling em like I see em.  You want to deny it go ahead.  I'm still gonna think so.
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« Reply #9 on: November 04, 2009, 05:06:56 PM »

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Charles Sloan
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« Reply #10 on: November 04, 2009, 10:13:05 PM »

Do not get carried away by the evil of Hitler as any sort of condemnation of evolution.  It has no bearing on the legitimacy or lack thereof of evolution.

But it does expose the unavoidable conclusion of darwinism, that some races of humans are more evolved than others.
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Ciscokid
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« Reply #11 on: November 05, 2009, 02:16:56 AM »

Do not get carried away by the evil of Hitler as any sort of condemnation of evolution.  It has no bearing on the legitimacy or lack thereof of evolution.

But it does expose the unavoidable conclusion of darwinism, that some races of humans are more evolved than others.


This isn't true at all.  Black Africans are home sapiens just as we are.  They may have taken a slightly different evolutionary path than their European counterparts but they are still just as 'human'.

My guess is that these types of threads are not here to discuss what is true, but more likely an attempt to discredit a scientific theory that some perceive as a threat to their religious worldview.
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Charles Sloan
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« Reply #12 on: November 05, 2009, 09:35:00 AM »

This isn't true at all.  Black Africans are home sapiens just as we are.  They may have taken a slightly different evolutionary path than their European counterparts but they are still just as 'human'.

Of course all humans are humans, but evolution would arrive at the conclusion that not all groups are as evolved as other ethnic groups. Just as you pointed out that Africans are "different" than Europeans, many people in history have used that reasoning to justify slavery or extermination of specific peoples. You may not agree with this, but it is historical.

My guess is that these types of threads are not here to discuss what is true, but more likely an attempt to discredit a scientific theory that some perceive as a threat to their religious worldview.

This is the truth, evolution has done vast amounts of harm to the scientific community and the world at large. Although evlution poses no threat whatsoever to Christianity, since nothing can damage the truth (2Cr 13:8). I discredit evolution because it is not scientific, it is a purely religious fantasy cloaked in science.
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« Reply #12 on: November 05, 2009, 09:35:00 AM »

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Ciscokid
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« Reply #13 on: November 05, 2009, 10:46:32 AM »

Of course all humans are humans, but evolution would arrive at the conclusion that not all groups are as evolved as other ethnic groups. Just as you pointed out that Africans are "different" than Europeans, many people in history have used that reasoning to justify slavery or extermination of specific peoples. You may not agree with this, but it is historical.

The exact same can be said of the Bible, what is the point?




This is the truth, evolution has done vast amounts of harm to the scientific community and the world at large. Although evlution poses no threat whatsoever to Christianity, since nothing can damage the truth (2Cr 13:8). I discredit evolution because it is not scientific, it is a purely religious fantasy cloaked in science.

How has the theory of evolution harmed the world at large?  How many people have died for not believing in evolution?  How many have died for being a "witch" or not professing faith in God? 

I don't think you want to go down this road.
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Charles Sloan
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« Reply #14 on: November 05, 2009, 02:09:27 PM »

The exact same can be said of the Bible, what is the point?

I would like to see where how the Bible can or has been used to promote racism, and even if you did manage to cite some obscure source it would most likely be a clear misrepresentation of Christianity and misapplication of its pretenses. Evolution on the other hand logically arrives at racism, even the title of Charlies book illustrates this point. "On the Origin of Species by Means of Natural Selection, or the Preservation of Favoured Races in the Struggle for Life".

So the point would be that the rampage of Nazi Germany could be interpreted as a product of evolution theory.

How has the theory of evolution harmed the world at large?  How many people have died for not believing in evolution?  How many have died for being a "witch" or not professing faith in God? 

I don't think you want to go down this road.

There are no subjects I will decline from in the pursuit of truth and honesty. I understand your defense of evolution will be to spin the topic onto the atrocities committed by so-called "Christians", but Christianity does not support any of the ideals that can be inferred through evolution theory. The idea that some men are more evolved than others is simply the logical course of Darwin's theory when applied to mankind.

However people have not died for not believing in evolution, in fact people have died as a result of powerful and influential people using this theory to destroy the lives of millions. Pol Pot and the Khmer Rouge killed some 200,000 by their race driven genocide. Adolf Hitler which was already mentioned used Darwin's theory to extinguish 6,000,000,000 lives. Stalin who was also an evolution theory adherent who would go on to murder around 3,000,000,000. There are others, but time fails me to cite them.

Evolution may or may not have directly contributed to all of these death and the millions more not mentioned, but it most certainly played a massive role in the formation these murders ideals and their blatant disregard for human life. To deny this fact is to be intellectually dishonest and disingenuous.
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