Poptart,
You are not listening to what I say, (or reading what I type) but hearing what you are programed to hear.

I agree with most of what you are saying. The thing is You have everything correct until, you get to the passages that one can turn away, then you contradict the word in your line of thinking.

Lets look at your number roll above.
1. Yes God chooses Bill, but Bill has to chose to accept that calling. This right here is what makes our thinking contradict each other. You have God calling with no responce from man needed. The word says God chooses all, does not want one person to to be left out, but you say he picks, and chooses. Some for eternal life with him, and some for eternal damnation. That alone will contradict our understanding on the rest of this dialog.

2. Yes God call Bill, but Bill needs to call back. God calls all through the Gospel, and we read that we are to call back. That is your second problem with your understanding that leads to our difference in the falling away.  You know God calls. He calls all men, because he does not want one to perish. God calls all through the Gospel of Jesus Christ. That is true, and we both agree. Where we differ is that God says we are to call back. That establishes the choice we have. All who call on the name of the Lord will be saved. God is not doing universal salvation. He is offering to all that accepts, but not doing universal as he wishes all to be saved. He has given us the choice to take or leave. If we want what he is offering we will call on his name. If we don't want what he offers we will not call. Simply elementry my dear Watson.

3,4 &5. I agree with you whole heartily.

6. Is part true. God gives me everything I need to be maintained, but he told me I must walk the walk. He is not my puppet master, but I must do his will. He created me to do good works. He called me to a higher calling. I have a walk that I have been shown how I should represent my Master. I can not serve two masters for I will love one, and hate the other. I am not Gods puppet that he controls, but his servant serving him the best I can, in doing his will that he has called me to do.

The thing is You are right in many ways, but you teach it differently that the word does. Yes one is secure in their salvation, and will not loose, it if they are walking in the light, as the light shines forth on them. That is the Gospel truth. The key word being, as the word says, walking in the light.

You have somehow come to think that God controls every step man takes. He has taken the liberty away from man,(or never gave it to man) and makes every move, and thought for man. The only thing is, the word does not teach this extreme. It teaches that God will give what we need, he will strengthen us, and guide, and protect, but he will not be our puppet master. We have to walk the walk. That is where our free will comes in. He wants us to live for him, and does not make us live for him. He wants us to want him, and does not make us want him. We are told that God is holy, and can not be in the presence of sin, so we are called to be holy. It is true that as long as we are in this fleshly body we will struggle with sin, and remain saved, but that is different than turning back to a life of sin, and turning our back on the offer of our Father. That is the difference in walking in the light, as we are called to do, and hiding in the dark. WE can let our light shine, or we can hide it under a bushel. That was the two choices we were given. Letting our light shine is what we were called to do. Hiding it under a bushel was what we were told not to do. Which will we chose is up to us, and both have their just reward. We can not serve two masters, we have to chose this day which master we will serve, and walk accordingly. God calls all through the Gospel of Christ, and man is to call on the Name of the Lord. That established the choice we must make, and the freewill we was given.

So yes there is a walk that I must walk, and God gives the strength I need to walk it. God will supply all my needs, but I must walk the walk, he will not walk it for me. He has already done it, and now I must follow in his steps. I am not his puppet, but his servant. There is indeed things that he has called me to do, and it is I that has to do them. He supplies, and I do the walk.

Like I said I have done present my view the best I can and don't think I have much more to offer. You have presented your and did a fine job but I think you need to look more into whether man has a choice to make or if God gives no choice. That is where we are having trouble coming together in our line of thinking. That is what separates our understanding. I can not find scripture to stand on the way you see it because to many other scriptures show man has a choice he must make. With that standing in our way we will never agree completely with each other. You can not convince me that the other scriptures do not teach man has a choice and I will never convince you that they teach man has a choice so we are left with no where to futher this discussion because we can not come to an agreement on the separating factor that is fueling this discussion. In order for us to agree with whether one can or can not lose salvation we first have to solve the freewill issue and that will not happen so there is nothing left for me to discuss on this I have exhausted my line of thought and we have not got no where so I leave you to yours. May God bless us all and continue to grow us in his grace.

Bvaug, thanks for the post and for the good thoughts.
There are some misrepresntations/misunderstandings of what my point(s) is, but again, I DO appreciate your time and effort to detail your thoughts on this.


I asked you an important question a few posts ago and didn't see an answer given.
I'll give it another shot.

When Adam and Eve sinned, God immediately promised in Genesis 3:15, the seed of the WOMAN, who would crush the head of the serpent.

Why is the seed of the WOMAN so significant?

 I think that the term: Salvation, is so misunderstood, that that is the main problem in the Christian world today.

Salvation, as God means it, is NOT taught in todays churches.



Look at what the Bible really says......

Matthew   1:21   And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins. 

QUESTION: How can a person be 'saved' from their sins...if they still are committing sins ?

If a person is drowning...they are only saved, when they are no longer drowning, right ?

When a person  'stops' from committing sin....then, they are saved.

Jesus Christ said: 'go and sin no more' (John 5:14 & 8:11)........that is Salvation.

By the very words of Jesus Christ...it is possible to do exactly as HE says (Right or wrong ?)

OR, Jesus will say: 6:46   And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say ?   (Luke)


The bottom line is....will we believe what Jesus Christ says.....or not ?

When the Bible says to do something, that same Bible will also tell us HOW to do it.

4For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;

 5And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly;

 6And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, making them an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly;

 7And delivered just Lot, vexed with the filthy conversation of the wicked:

 8(For that righteous man dwelling among them, in seeing and hearing, vexed his righteous soul from day to day with their unlawful deeds;)

 9The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished: