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Author Topic: King James Version or RSV or NIV, does it make a difference?  (Read 11279 times)
apokalupsis
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« Reply #105 on: April 24, 2009, 04:53:41 PM »

Bible translations are VERY important . The KJV translation it was a very good and faithful translation it served grandfathers and grandmothers well .
And us older folks knew it served our parents well also.
But it is not serving most of our grand children as well as it did our grandparents.
there is to much of a language barrier now.

Most conservative pastors just no longer think that the kJV serves the purpose it once did . lets be honest how many of us conservatives want to hear this from the pulpit???

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Exactly. 

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« Reply #106 on: April 24, 2009, 06:02:21 PM »

Ideally we would all read the scriptures in their original languages of Hebrew and Greek and would not need translations such as the NASB, ESV, NIV, NLT, YLT, etc. 

Because most of us cannot do that, we must rely on translations of the original language.  I advice using the NASB and the YLT which seem to get closest to the original language and using the NIV, NLT or the Message to get the sense of a passage.
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« Reply #106 on: April 24, 2009, 06:02:21 PM »

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apokalupsis
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« Reply #107 on: April 25, 2009, 08:47:49 AM »

I agree, in fact, with so many good computer programs that put several different versions at our disposal with the click of a mouse, there really doesn't seem to be much reliance on any one version anymore. 

I primarily use ASV, KJV, NKJV, NIV plus lots of looking up Greek and Hebrew via Strongs, Thayer, Vines, etc... using e-sword and some other program I can't remember the name of.
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Aner
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« Reply #108 on: April 25, 2009, 07:58:54 PM »

With all due respect, this is a lot of dead tradition talking here.

A.  If you don't know the Greek text, you will never really know what was said - all the English texts contains distortions.

B.  Textual Criticism is entirely appropriate - this has already been commented on.

C.  IJn5:7 is a false text - the view needs to be that we are glad this false text was eliminated from the Word of God - that is in fact what happened.  A Catholic scribe entered into the text - most likely as the trinity doctrine jelled.

D.  Many others have commented on the same thing that I have - the Textus Receptus debate is for young men who have never really studied the matter with an open mind - they have been fed a line by someone and were not astute enuf to be aware of the difference - nothing new about that.

Lastly - just remember the people writing the majority texts were also the ones practicing transubstantiation, etc.

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jiggyfly
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« Reply #109 on: April 30, 2009, 06:01:06 AM »

In case anyone would like to research this topic, there are two books that I highly recommend.

"In the Beginning" by Alister McGrath, a very unbiased look at the KJV and the it's era.

"Biblical Dyslexia" by Charles Wilhelm, a look at how religious and tradition teachings have distorted interpretations of the scriptures.
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« Reply #110 on: May 01, 2009, 11:02:29 PM »

Another excellent book is the late Dr. Jack Lewis' The English Bible from KJV to NIV, which examines the strengths and weaknesses of all of the major translations.

While it was one of the best translations when the Church of England produced it in 1611, it is just a fact that in the last 300 years the KJV has been superceded by better translations. The KJV translators were working with 12th century Byzantine texts of the Bible, whereas the more recent ones are based upon much older GK mss, like the 4th century mss Sinaiticus and Vaticanus.

Many people argue so passionately for the KJV largely out of blind devotion. If it was good enough for their grandparents it's good enough for them. The attitude of many of these folks is "Don't bother me the facts because I've already made up my mind."

Pax.
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« Reply #110 on: May 01, 2009, 11:02:29 PM »

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jiggyfly
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« Reply #111 on: May 02, 2009, 04:23:28 AM »

Another excellent book is the late Dr. Jack Lewis' The English Bible from KJV to NIV, which examines the strengths and weaknesses of all of the major translations.

While it was one of the best translations when the Church of England produced it in 1611, it is just a fact that in the last 300 years the KJV has been superceded by better translations. The KJV translators were working with 12th century Byzantine texts of the Bible, whereas the more recent ones are based upon much older GK mss, like the 4th century mss Sinaiticus and Vaticanus.

Many people argue so passionately for the KJV largely out of blind devotion. If it was good enough for their grandparents it's good enough for them. The attitude of many of these folks is "Don't bother me the facts because I've already made up my mind."

Pax.

Yeah Ive seen that too, I think that many of the KJVO people share the same attitude as those who were against the KJV when it was first published saying "we don't need a new version, we like our old ones".  At best it's carnal preference.
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« Reply #112 on: June 11, 2009, 03:32:11 PM »

Personally I like NKJ, but find that a variety of translations are very helpful as well, though there is not any other I would prefer to use if I had to chose just one.
 
So my foundational version is the NKJ, combined with the nuances I get from the NIV, NLT, ASV, the Amplified and for some verses God's Word Translation and JB Phillips

I have to combine any translation with the use of Strong's  Reading
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« Reply #113 on: June 15, 2009, 08:05:33 PM »

The KJV altho loved and used by many is an outdated version with quite a few errors within it. The NKJV is an update of the KJV and is easier to read and understand it has also eliminated the errors found in the old version.
The ASV & NASV are both excellent translations of the Scriptures.
The RSV & NRSV are not recommended for the fact that they are sloppily translated.
The NIV is a dynamic equvalence translation instead of word for word it translates thought for thought which means in essence the translators interpret what a passage mean and thus translate it. This type of translation does not bring out the meaning of the text but what the translators thought the text meant.
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« Reply #114 on: June 16, 2009, 06:19:45 PM »

With all due respect, this is a lot of dead tradition talking here.

A.  If you don't know the Greek text, you will never really know what was said - all the English texts contains distortions.

Unless you are very, very accomplished in the Greek language of the day, I think that you are not likely to be any better off than simply having several English texts available.  That requires years of study.  Because it will not be sufficient to just have the Greek text, but you will also need to have available the relavant literature of the day.  And who will be the teacher?

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« Reply #114 on: June 16, 2009, 06:19:45 PM »

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Wycliffes_Shillelagh
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« Reply #115 on: June 16, 2009, 07:08:02 PM »

With all due respect, this is a lot of dead tradition talking here.

A.  If you don't know the Greek text, you will never really know what was said - all the English texts contains distortions.

Unless you are very, very accomplished in the Greek language of the day, I think that you are not likely to be any better off than simply having several English texts available.  That requires years of study.  Because it will not be sufficient to just have the Greek text, but you will also need to have available the relavant literature of the day.  And who will be the teacher?
If you get the version of Thayer's lexicon that isn't "concise," it gives examples of the most important places in prominent Greek literature the word you're looking up was used.  This makes it so that you don't have to be fluent in the language.  You just need to know enough to read a paragraph.

About 3 years, BTW.

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koscheiman
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« Reply #116 on: June 16, 2009, 09:43:58 PM »

Quote from: Aner
With all due respect, this is a lot of dead tradition talking here.

A.  If you don't know the Greek text, you will never really know what was said - all the English texts contains distortions.

B.  Textual Criticism is entirely appropriate - this has already been commented on.

C.  IJn5:7 is a false text - the view needs to be that we are glad this false text was eliminated from the Word of God - that is in fact what happened.  A Catholic scribe entered into the text - most likely as the trinity doctrine jelled.

D.  Many others have commented on the same thing that I have - the Textus Receptus debate is for young men who have never really studied the matter with an open mind - they have been fed a line by someone and were not astute enuf to be aware of the difference - nothing new about that.

Lastly - just remember the people writing the majority texts were also the ones practicing transubstantiation, etc.

A. Most of the major translations into English are not distorted--to many scholars working on the translation for that to happen.

B. Texual criticism is usually detrimental to the pure word of God. It is usually carried out by skeptics and those who do not fully believe in the inspiration os Scripture. These are the people that believe Daniel was written much later tha it was, that there were 2 maybe 3 Isaiahs involved in its writing, and also present the Documentary hypothesis as fact.

C. 1 John 5:7 is found in most of the oldest manuscripts it is found in all translations of the Bible and all Greek New Testaments. It was not entered by a Cathlic scibe due to the fact that it is in manuscripts dated before Cathlocism and in the Syriac version of the Bible from the 2nd century.

D. The Textus Receptus was used to translate the KJV of the Bible most modern translations do not use th Textus Receptus, but older more reliabe manuscripts.

Your final statement appears to be false also. For example transubstantiation had it beginning by Hildebert de Savardin, Archbishop of Tours who died in 1133.
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« Reply #117 on: August 01, 2009, 11:32:37 AM »

Equally if not even more important.
Gods personal name appears in the bible almost 7000 times.
But has been almost completely removed.
You can still find it in the King James Here
Psalm 83:18 (King James Version)
18That men may know that thou, whose name alone is JEHOVAH, art the most high over all the earth.
Also in 2 other locations Exodus and Isaiah
Exodus 6:3 (King James Version)
3And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of God Almighty, but by my name JEHOVAH was I not known to them.

Isaiah 12:2 (King James Version)
2Behold, God is my salvation; I will trust, and not be afraid: for the LORD JEHOVAH is my strength and my song; he also is become my salvation.

Christ said "I made your name known"
Lords prayer says "Hallowed be thy name"
Where is it?
Removed................. thats where...........among other changes to the bible this one is the most obvious.
Who still uses the name today
JEHOVAH
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« Reply #117 on: August 01, 2009, 11:32:37 AM »

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kristinaf
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« Reply #118 on: August 02, 2009, 12:47:03 AM »

Equally if not even more important.
Gods personal name appears in the bible almost 7000 times.
But has been almost completely removed.
You can still find it in the King James Here
Psalm 83:18 (King James Version)
18That men may know that thou, whose name alone is JEHOVAH, art the most high over all the earth.
Also in 2 other locations Exodus and Isaiah
Exodus 6:3 (King James Version)
3And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of God Almighty, but by my name JEHOVAH was I not known to them.

Isaiah 12:2 (King James Version)
2Behold, God is my salvation; I will trust, and not be afraid: for the LORD JEHOVAH is my strength and my song; he also is become my salvation.

Christ said "I made your name known"
Lords prayer says "Hallowed be thy name"
Where is it?
Removed................. thats where...........among other changes to the bible this one is the most obvious.
Who still uses the name today
JEHOVAH
If you really like the name Jehovah, check out the New World Translation, it is just chock full of Jehovah references.  Of course, it is a Jehovah's Witness Bible, which I am trying to get rid of, so if you like it, you can have it!

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« Reply #119 on: August 03, 2009, 12:49:05 PM »

Quote from: Aner
C.  IJn5:7 is a false text - the view needs to be that we are glad this false text was eliminated from the Word of God - that is in fact what happened.  A Catholic scribe entered into the text - most likely as the trinity doctrine jelled.


C. 1 John 5:7 is found in most of the oldest manuscripts it is found in all translations of the Bible and all Greek New Testaments. It was not entered by a Cathlic scibe due to the fact that it is in manuscripts dated before Cathlocism and in the Syriac version of the Bible from the 2nd century.


I am pretty sure he meant the beginning of verse 8, which only appeared, marginally, in the 11th century...
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