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Author Topic: King James Version or RSV or NIV, does it make a difference?  (Read 8423 times)
dp
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« Reply #120 on: August 09, 2009, 05:46:14 PM »

I use mostly the 1611 KJV. One of the reasons is because Dr. James Strong in his Strong's Concordance numbered each word in the Old and New Testament manuscripts and gave a definition for each manuscript word. (I prefer a pre-1991 edition of the Strong's also, because later editions are not true to the original).

Another reason is because The New Testament translation did come from the Textus Receptus manuscripts, instead of the older Alexandrian manuscripts. The Textus Receptus has the early western Church link, not the Alexandrian from Alexandria, Egypt. The school at Alexandria, Egypt was tainted by mixing some of the old pagan philosophy influence in their interpretation.

So just because the Alexandrian manuscripts from Egypt are older, and later English Bible translations use it, that still does not mean it's more accurate than the Textus Receptus which is what the Christian Churches in Asia Minor used that originated with the Church at Antioch.

Paraphrasing is also another reason I use the 1611 KJV. There appears to be a lot less paraphrasing in its translation than later English versions, especially versions like The Living Bible, etc. A paraphrase is a summary put into the author's own wording. It most often doesn't follow the original order flow of subject and object. There's a reason why in the KJV Bible a subject and object flow is given, and then that same exact verse is repeated within the same chapter, sometimes more than twice. That's done for emphasis within the original manuscripts, to point out the strength of a matter, an order of alteration, a marking by The Holy Spirit. It's bad enough that some of that can be lost even through one translation, but the 1611 KJV seems to keep that to a minimum, while later versions like The Living Bible really takes license in getting away from that manuscript structure (but not in all places).

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« Reply #121 on: August 11, 2009, 11:03:15 AM »

dp-

Not wanting to get into any debate with you, but if you will notice, even by the title of this thread, nobody is arguing for the Living Bible, except as, perhaps, a commentary.

Few would argue that KJV is a bad translation, but many would say that there are others that are as good or even ( gasp) better, particularly in some passages.

I am not trying to take your favorite version from you, but please consider seriously some criticism you may hear of not only it, but of its basic foundation, the Textus Receptus.

Take care,

Norm
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« Reply #121 on: August 11, 2009, 11:03:15 AM »

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HRoberson
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« Reply #122 on: August 12, 2009, 11:33:03 PM »

I use mostly the 1611 KJV.
Really? The 1611 version?

Quote
(I prefer a pre-1991 edition of the Strong's also, because later editions are not true to the original).
To the original what? Is Dr. Strong infallible?
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« Reply #123 on: August 19, 2009, 02:54:16 PM »

The majority text translations (Textus Receptus as one), come from the Byzantine group of manuscripts and are significantly different from the Alexandrian group of manuscripts of which Codex Sinaiticus and Codex Vatican are the earliest known complete copies.

That the Alexandrian Catechetical School (out of which the minority group of manuscripts were written) was rife with heresy, should be sufficient for us to regard very carefully the eclectic translations that have relied significantly on that minority manuscript source ( NIV, NSAB, NEB etc.).

But I would caution against dismissing every modern translation that does not fully conform with the majority text manuscripts. In all but a few instances, the differences are slight and not sufficient to corrupt and destroy the faith of those who read them. I prefer the KJV and NKJV to the NIV and NASB but I do use other Bibles for comparisons and explanatory notes -- even the Jerusalem Bible.

canuck
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« Reply #124 on: August 19, 2009, 03:52:57 PM »

I prefer the KJV and NKJV to the NIV and NASB but I do use other Bibles for comparisons and explanatory notes -- even the Jerusalem Bible.

canuck

Many people would be surprised to read a Catholic bible, such as the Jerusalem Bible, and find little to argue about as a translation.

It is those  "explanatory notes" that gets into doctrinal issues.
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« Reply #125 on: August 19, 2009, 05:10:44 PM »

I prefer the KJV and NKJV to the NIV and NASB but I do use other Bibles for comparisons and explanatory notes -- even the Jerusalem Bible.

canuck

Many people would be surprised to read a Catholic bible, such as the Jerusalem Bible, and find little to argue about as a translation.

It is those  "explanatory notes" that gets into doctrinal issues.



It really shouldn't be too surprising, though it may be.  Unless the translation is simply trash, all that is left are details.  The details may have profound ramifications, true, but likely they would have to be pointed out by someone with an purposed agenda to make sure the reader can now have doubt about something as well.
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« Reply #125 on: August 19, 2009, 05:10:44 PM »

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Wycliffes_Shillelagh
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« Reply #126 on: August 20, 2009, 01:31:20 PM »

Quote
(I prefer a pre-1991 edition of the Strong's also, because later editions are not true to the original).
To the original what? Is Dr. Strong infallible?
To Thayer's (& Gesenius') lexicons.  The lexicon included with Strong's Concordance is an abridged version of Thayer's lexicon in the older editions.

In the newer ones the editors have made some changes in places where they consider old Thayer to be outside orthodoxy with his definitions (notably as pertains to passages dealing with the trinity).
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« Reply #127 on: September 02, 2009, 09:59:22 AM »

My vote is for the ESV / English Standard Version

Compare ESV with KJV
http://www.esv.org/about/kjv
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« Reply #128 on: September 11, 2009, 03:50:31 PM »

With all due respect, this is a lot of dead tradition talking here.

A.  If you don't know the Greek text, you will never really know what was said - all the English texts contains distortions.

B.  Textual Criticism is entirely appropriate - this has already been commented on.

C.  IJn5:7 is a false text - the view needs to be that we are glad this false text was eliminated from the Word of God - that is in fact what happened.  A Catholic scribe entered into the text - most likely as the trinity doctrine jelled.

D.  Many others have commented on the same thing that I have - the Textus Receptus debate is for young men who have never really studied the matter with an open mind - they have been fed a line by someone and were not astute enuf to be aware of the difference - nothing new about that.

Lastly - just remember the people writing the majority texts were also the ones practicing transubstantiation, etc.

Best,
Aner

I John 5:7 For there are three who testify{Only a few recent manuscripts add "in heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit; and these three are one. And there are three that testify on earth"}: 
 


Interesting.  I would like to hear more about this.
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« Reply #129 on: September 15, 2009, 04:00:21 AM »

The majority text translations (Textus Receptus as one), come from the Byzantine group of manuscripts and are significantly different from the Alexandrian group of manuscripts of which Codex Sinaiticus and Codex Vatican are the earliest known complete copies.

That the Alexandrian Catechetical School (out of which the minority group of manuscripts were written) was rife with heresy, should be sufficient for us to regard very carefully the eclectic translations that have relied significantly on that minority manuscript source ( NIV, NSAB, NEB etc.).

But I would caution against dismissing every modern translation that does not fully conform with the majority text manuscripts. In all but a few instances, the differences are slight and not sufficient to corrupt and destroy the faith of those who read them. I prefer the KJV and NKJV to the NIV and NASB but I do use other Bibles for comparisons and explanatory notes -- even the Jerusalem Bible.

canuck

I find it an interesting observation that it was the Alexandrians with whom Stephen was disputing when he was stoned. They did not believe that Jesus came in the flesh.
I concur with your comments
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« Reply #129 on: September 15, 2009, 04:00:21 AM »

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kiwimac
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« Reply #130 on: September 16, 2009, 05:12:22 PM »

There really is only one word for the argument that the KJV is an inerrant translation. Heiferdust!
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« Reply #131 on: October 03, 2009, 02:54:11 AM »

Take a look at this comparison of the King James Version versus the RSV and NIV....

http://www.amazingdiscoveries.org/articles-BibleInsight-BibleBattle.html


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=emgkCvzJTIY&eurl=http://www.amazingdiscoveries.org/articles-BibleInsight-BibleBattle.html



KJV---(King James Version)RSV---(Revised Standard Version)---NIV(New International Version)

1 John 5:7
Removal of the Trinity
KJV---For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost:and these three are one.
RSV---For there are three that testify the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost
NIV---( missing )


Romans 1:3
Systematic removal of the divinity of Jesus Christ
KJV---Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;
RSV--- concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, who was born of the seed of David according to the flesh,
NIV---regarding his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, who as to his human nature was a descendant of David,


Acts 22:16
Systematic removal of the divinity of Jesus Christ
KJV---wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord
RSV---and wash away thy sins, calling on his name.
NIV---wash your sins away, calling on his name.


Yes, and look at this:

KJV -  "No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him."
(Joh 1:18 KJV)

NASB - "For the Law was given through Moses; grace and truth were realized through Jesus Christ. No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten God who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him." (Joh 1:17-18 NASB)

Hmm...seems the NASB has declared Jesus as God when the KJV says "Son."
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« Reply #132 on: October 27, 2009, 10:34:26 AM »

Take a look at this comparison of the King James Version versus the RSV and NIV....

http://www.amazingdiscoveries.org/articles-BibleInsight-BibleBattle.html


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=emgkCvzJTIY&eurl=http://www.amazingdiscoveries.org/articles-BibleInsight-BibleBattle.html



KJV---(King James Version)RSV---(Revised Standard Version)---NIV(New International Version)

1 John 5:7
Removal of the Trinity
KJV---For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost:and these three are one.
RSV---For there are three that testify the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost
NIV---( missing )


Romans 1:3
Systematic removal of the divinity of Jesus Christ
KJV---Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;
RSV--- concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, who was born of the seed of David according to the flesh,
NIV---regarding his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, who as to his human nature was a descendant of David,


Acts 22:16
Systematic removal of the divinity of Jesus Christ
KJV---wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord
RSV---and wash away thy sins, calling on his name.
NIV---wash your sins away, calling on his name.


With all due respect, I must say:

The best translation of scripture is the one you will read, study, hide in your heart, and apply to your life to live by day-by-day.

BLESSINGS,

Doc
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« Reply #132 on: October 27, 2009, 10:34:26 AM »

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farouk
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« Reply #133 on: October 27, 2009, 10:46:58 AM »

V:

Both are true, of course.

The point is, interpreting the original, and what it says in that particular passage.

Actually I have found the KJV trustworthy over many years.

Take a look at this comparison of the King James Version versus the RSV and NIV....

http://www.amazingdiscoveries.org/articles-BibleInsight-BibleBattle.html


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=emgkCvzJTIY&eurl=http://www.amazingdiscoveries.org/articles-BibleInsight-BibleBattle.html



KJV---(King James Version)RSV---(Revised Standard Version)---NIV(New International Version)

1 John 5:7
Removal of the Trinity
KJV---For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost:and these three are one.
RSV---For there are three that testify the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost
NIV---( missing )


Romans 1:3
Systematic removal of the divinity of Jesus Christ
KJV---Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;
RSV--- concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, who was born of the seed of David according to the flesh,
NIV---regarding his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, who as to his human nature was a descendant of David,


Acts 22:16
Systematic removal of the divinity of Jesus Christ
KJV---wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord
RSV---and wash away thy sins, calling on his name.
NIV---wash your sins away, calling on his name.


Yes, and look at this:

KJV -  "No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him."
(Joh 1:18 KJV)

NASB - "For the Law was given through Moses; grace and truth were realized through Jesus Christ. No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten God who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him." (Joh 1:17-18 NASB)

Hmm...seems the NASB has declared Jesus as God when the KJV says "Son."
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« Reply #134 on: October 27, 2009, 10:58:28 AM »

And like I have said before.. I you want an Anglican centric version of the bible.. the all means us the KJV.

But if you aren't Anglican, I can see no logical reason to use the KJV because of its bias.
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