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Author Topic: Lack of biblical authorization is sin or not?  (Read 563 times)
zoonance
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« on: September 11, 2009, 05:29:09 PM »

Along the same idea as my doctrinal accuracy thread, I need desperately to grasp the idea of something being "authorized by God" or not.   I need scripture.  Certainly "not to go beyond what is written" is one that always comes up and that is clearly specifically dealing with the OT scripture as evidenced by the rest of the letter!    What does "All things are lawful" really mean in a scriptural context?  This sort of goes back to my question as to the purpose of the bible.  Help!  I need scriptures.
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« Reply #1 on: September 11, 2009, 05:50:27 PM »

Purpose of the Bible: To reveal God, His purpose, and yours. Jesus, in response to a question from the Disciples, says "haven't you been paying attention? if you have seen Me, you have seen the Father." Or perhaps "the mystery of God has been revealed." The mystery being the reconiliation of Man to God. Or again, "the law was added as a tutor, to bring us to Christ."

In short, the Bible is a revelation of God, His character, and the Likeness in which you were made to live.

Authorization: This is a mixed bag and really does require that we grasp the first point - the purpose of the Bible. Speaking to folks that don't grasp the first point, and who see Scripture less as description and more as rules, this will be a difficult discussion to have.

God says
Quote
follow My commandments, and everything will be cool for you.
He also says
Quote
you tithe mint and cummin but omit the weightier matters of the Law; you should have done both.

Or again,
Quote
God desires obedience, not sacrifice.

It is clear that if God has told you to do something, you pretty much need to do it.

Now let's look at the Ten Commandments. They contain a list of things that we aren't supposed to do. So, we don't do those. We can though, do anything that isn't those, needing no authorization to do them.

The biggest challenge you are going to have is explaining how to read a text, with the first challenge being to understand what the author is trying to say, and then how what he says is impacted by his overall intent.

Good luck with that.
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« Reply #1 on: September 11, 2009, 05:50:27 PM »

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RED SHIFT1
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« Reply #2 on: September 11, 2009, 08:45:56 PM »

Along the same idea as my doctrinal accuracy thread, I need desperately to grasp the idea of something being "authorized by God" or not.   I need scripture.  Certainly "not to go beyond what is written" is one that always comes up and that is clearly specifically dealing with the OT scripture as evidenced by the rest of the letter!    What does "All things are lawful" really mean in a scriptural context?  This sort of goes back to my question as to the purpose of the bible.  Help!  I need scriptures.

Brother, I think what you really need to do is get some basic Biblical ideas...before all this other stuff.  Your posts read like a small child trying to understand the concept of nuclear fusion...
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« Reply #3 on: September 12, 2009, 12:54:58 AM »

Did Not Jesus say, " I am the way I am the Truth , I am the Life

 Did He not say I am the bread of life, amyman who comes to me will not go hungry,
Did He  not say in revelation, " I stand at the door, knocking, if any man will hear my voce and open up, i will sup with Him and Him with me.

Did He not say. Joh 15:26  But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me: Do you really want the truth, stop reading and go spend some quiet time with Jesus, He will show you all you need to know, If you believe He will and if you reallt want it ..

In His Love
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zoonance
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« Reply #4 on: September 12, 2009, 07:35:41 AM »

Along the same idea as my doctrinal accuracy thread, I need desperately to grasp the idea of something being "authorized by God" or not.   I need scripture.  Certainly "not to go beyond what is written" is one that always comes up and that is clearly specifically dealing with the OT scripture as evidenced by the rest of the letter!    What does "All things are lawful" really mean in a scriptural context?  This sort of goes back to my question as to the purpose of the bible.  Help!  I need scriptures.

Brother, I think what you really need to do is get some basic Biblical ideas...before all this other stuff.  Your posts read like a small child trying to understand the concept of nuclear fusion...


and you are my nuclear physicist knight in shining armor.
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« Reply #5 on: September 14, 2009, 01:15:04 PM »

Along the same idea as my doctrinal accuracy thread, I need desperately to grasp the idea of something being "authorized by God" or not.   I need scripture.  Certainly "not to go beyond what is written" is one that always comes up and that is clearly specifically dealing with the OT scripture as evidenced by the rest of the letter!    What does "All things are lawful" really mean in a scriptural context?  This sort of goes back to my question as to the purpose of the bible.  Help!  I need scriptures.

Brother, I think what you really need to do is get some basic Biblical ideas...before all this other stuff.  Your posts read like a small child trying to understand the concept of nuclear fusion...
Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child shall in no wise enter therein.  (Luke 18:17 - Authorized Version)

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« Reply #5 on: September 14, 2009, 01:15:04 PM »

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« Reply #6 on: September 14, 2009, 10:46:52 PM »

It's very hard, to me, to select some Scriptures and point them out as "authorization", in the sense that a Christian in 2009 must do or not do a list of exact, specific things.

I can pick a few things -- tell you why, based on XYZ Scriptures, you should or should not do them -- but the reasoning behind it hangs as much or more on the kind of person you should be as you imitate Christ, as on a list of rules.

So much better to think in terms of how we should be rather than what we should do.
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« Reply #7 on: September 17, 2009, 12:53:38 PM »


Dear zoonance, I will attempt to give my idea at this using the following scriptures. There are many things not good for us bringing consequence as a result, but we are not under law.

1 Corinthians 6:12   All things are lawful unto me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any.

1 Corinthians 10:23   All things are lawful for me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but all things edify not.

Notice the following; it is no longer "Thou shalt not".

1 Thessalonians 4:3  For this is the will of God, even your sanctification, that ye should abstain from fornication:

1 Thessalonians 5:22  Abstain from all appearance of evil.

Galatians 2:4  And that because of false brethren unawares brought in, who came in privily to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage:

Romans 10:4  For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

Titus 3:5  Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
 
In Jesus name - larry2 

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« Reply #8 on: September 18, 2009, 06:56:33 AM »


Dear zoonance, I will attempt to give my idea at this using the following scriptures. There are many things not good for us bringing consequence as a result, but we are not under law.

1 Corinthians 6:12   All things are lawful unto me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any.

1 Corinthians 10:23   All things are lawful for me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but all things edify not.

Notice the following; it is no longer "Thou shalt not".

1 Thessalonians 4:3  For this is the will of God, even your sanctification, that ye should abstain from fornication:

1 Thessalonians 5:22  Abstain from all appearance of evil.

Galatians 2:4  And that because of false brethren unawares brought in, who came in privily to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage:

Romans 10:4  For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

Titus 3:5  Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
  
In Jesus name - larry2  


So what do you think Paul meant when he said in 1 Corinthians that all things were lawful?  Are you really trying to say that God no longer considered things like lying, murder, stealing, idolotry etc. as sin?   Do you think that is what Paul means when he says we are not under the law?
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« Reply #9 on: September 18, 2009, 10:10:41 AM »


Dear zoonance, I will attempt to give my idea at this using the following scriptures. There are many things not good for us bringing consequence as a result, but we are not under law.

1 Corinthians 6:12   All things are lawful unto me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any.

1 Corinthians 10:23   All things are lawful for me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but all things edify not.

Notice the following; it is no longer "Thou shalt not".

1 Thessalonians 4:3  For this is the will of God, even your sanctification, that ye should abstain from fornication:

1 Thessalonians 5:22  Abstain from all appearance of evil.

Galatians 2:4  And that because of false brethren unawares brought in, who came in privily to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage:

Romans 10:4  For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

Titus 3:5  Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
  
In Jesus name - larry2  

So what do you think Paul meant when he said in 1 Corinthians that all things were lawful?  Are you really trying to say that God no longer considered things like lying, murder, stealing, idolotry etc. as sin?   Do you think that is what Paul means when he says we are not under the law?


Dear Jimmy, these are just my thoughts on it. In 1 Cor. 6 below Paul is really talking of foods and things we do. The standards of the law have not changed, and there is chastisement available for things done in the flesh. Thus things not good for us should not be practiced because we are to glorify God. That talked of in 1 Cor. 10:23 is also talking of food and ordinances.

When God deals with us, He does so as with sons. Hebrews 12:7  If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?

The law was a schoolmaster to bring us to Christ. Galatians 3:24  Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
Galatians 3:25  But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
 
Romans 6:14  For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
Romans 6:15  What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid. Again here, there is consequence of sin.
 
1 Cor. 6:12  All things are lawful unto me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any.
1 Cor. 6:13  Meats for the belly, and the belly for meats: but God shall destroy both it and them. Now the body is not for fornication, but for the Lord; and the Lord for the body.
1 Cor. 6:14  And God hath both raised up the Lord, and will also raise up us by his own power.
1 Cor. 6:15  Know ye not that your bodies are the members of Christ? shall I then take the members of Christ, and make them the members of an harlot? God forbid.
1 Cor. 6:16  What? know ye not that he which is joined to an harlot is one body? for two, saith he, shall be one flesh.
1 Cor. 6:17  But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit.
1 Cor. 6:18  Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body.
1 Cor. 6:19  What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?
1 Cor. 6:20  For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.

What are your thoughts on these verses?

In Jesus' name - larry2

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« Reply #9 on: September 18, 2009, 10:10:41 AM »

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« Reply #10 on: September 19, 2009, 09:47:38 AM »

1 Corinthians 6:12   All things are lawful unto me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any.

1 Corinthians 10:23   All things are lawful for me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but all things edify not.


It seems to me to say that all things not forbidden by law (yes, the moral code of Moses) are lawful, BUT use your good judgement as one in whom the Spirit dwells. When Paul counsels  for or against something not regulated by the law, he reasons with his readers. Examples:  whether to marry, womens head covering, woman teachers, eating meat, speaking tongues in the assemblly, fornication with a prostitute. FORNICATION WITH A PROSTITUTE?  Well, did the Law of Moses forbid fornication with a prostitute?
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« Reply #11 on: September 19, 2009, 07:02:04 PM »

Apparently Judah had no problem with it.
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« Reply #12 on: September 27, 2009, 02:40:01 PM »

Along the same idea as my doctrinal accuracy thread, I need desperately to grasp the idea of something being "authorized by God" or not.   I need scripture.  Certainly "not to go beyond what is written" is one that always comes up and that is clearly specifically dealing with the OT scripture as evidenced by the rest of the letter!    What does "All things are lawful" really mean in a scriptural context?  This sort of goes back to my question as to the purpose of the bible.  Help!  I need scriptures.

This is typical of how people twist things, even Christians sometimes unfortunately. The Christians in Corinth were turning away from God and Paul said ”You cannot drink the cup of the Lord and the cup of demons too; you cannot have a part in both the Lord's table and the table of demons.”

Previously to this Paul had said they were not under law but were under grace and they twisted what Paul had said to mean that "Everything is permissible" because they were not under law.

Notice “Everything is permissible” is in quotes because Paul was quoting what the Corinthians were saying. It was not Paul saying it and the Corinthians were wrong.
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« Reply #12 on: September 27, 2009, 02:40:01 PM »

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« Reply #13 on: October 27, 2009, 01:36:04 PM »

It's very hard, to me, to select some Scriptures and point them out as "authorization", in the sense that a Christian in 2009 must do or not do a list of exact, specific things.

I can pick a few things -- tell you why, based on XYZ Scriptures, you should or should not do them -- but the reasoning behind it hangs as much or more on the kind of person you should be as you imitate Christ, as on a list of rules.

So much better to think in terms of how we should be rather than what we should do.

Yes, indeed.  RELIGION says "walk like Christ" - SALVATION says "walk with Christ" - food for thought.

BLESSINGS,

Doc
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« Reply #14 on: November 17, 2009, 01:14:20 AM »

Along the same idea as my doctrinal accuracy thread, I need desperately to grasp the idea of something being "authorized by God" or not.   I need scripture.  Certainly "not to go beyond what is written" is one that always comes up and that is clearly specifically dealing with the OT scripture as evidenced by the rest of the letter!    What does "All things are lawful" really mean in a scriptural context?  This sort of goes back to my question as to the purpose of the bible.  Help!  I need scriptures.

1 Corinthians 4:6 “I have applied these things to myself and Apollos for your benefit, brothers, that you may learn by us not to go beyond what is written…”

   
1 Corinthians 10:23

Do All to the Glory of God
"23 All things are lawful for me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but all things edify not."

1 Corinthians 6:12-20 (New International Version)

Sexual Immorality
 12"Everything is permissible for me"—but not everything is beneficial. "Everything is permissible for me"—but I will not be mastered by anything."

Christ is the God of Israel and the spiritual Rock that guided them—Ancient Israel rebelled against Christ—Paul contrasts true and false sacraments.
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39neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
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