Welcome, Guest. Login or register to use the forums.
Did you miss your activation email?
November 21, 2009, 04:46:43 AM
Home Help Search Login Register
GCM Home | Bible Search | Rules | Bookstore | Support | Newsletter


+  Christian Forums
|-+  Christian Interests
| |-+  Apologetics Forum
| | |-+  SUFFERING - WHY DO THE RIGHTEOUS SUFFER?
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic. « previous next »
Pages: 1 [2] 3 Go Down Print
Author Topic: SUFFERING - WHY DO THE RIGHTEOUS SUFFER?  (Read 879 times)
larry2
CHILD OF THE KING
Global Moderator
Hero
*****

Manna: 106
Online Online

Mood:

Posts: 3877

Blog entries (0)

View Profile
« Reply #15 on: October 09, 2009, 10:49:48 PM »

I have to admit...I am struggling with this thread..

In all fairness, I don't think it is quite as cut and dry as is presented here.

Yes, I know all those scriptures quite well, thank you.

But, I think we need to be very careful with this topic. Especially when we are addressing those that are currently going through suffering.  One must be extremely careful in using words such as "you should", etc....for some sufferers that can be the trigger that can send them further into their dark night of the soul from which some never recover.

When we as the question "Why do the Righteous Suffer?"...we really don't know all  the answers.  Certainly we know some.  But there is deep mystery in suffering and I don't know if we will ever know all the answers.


Dear "ConqueredbyLove," are you aware of 1 Corinthians 11:1 where Paul makes this statement? "Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ." And if you're going to follow him, read the following things the Lord led him through.

Acts 9:16. For I (Jesus) will show him how great things he (The Apostle Paul) must suffer for My name’s sake (Jesus’ Name).

1 Cor 4:9. For I think that God hath set forth us, the apostles, last as it were appointed to death; for we are made a spectacle unto the world, and to angels, and to men.

1 Cor 4:10. We are fools for Christ’s sake (Whose fool are you?), but ye are wise in Christ; but ye are strong; ye are honourable, but we are despised.

1 Cor 4:11. Even unto this present hour we both hunger, and thirst, and are naked, and are buffeted, and have no certain dwelling place.

1 Cor 4:12.  And labor, working with our own hands. Being reviled, we bless; being persecuted, we endure it.

1 Cor 4:13. Being defamed, we entreat; we are made the filth of the world, and are the offscouring (Outcasts) of all things unto this day.

2 Cor 1:3. Blessed be God, even the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of mercies, and the God of all comfort,

2 Cor 1:5. For the sufferings of Christ abound in us, so our consolation aboundeth by Christ.

2 Cor 11:23.  Are they ministers of Christ? I speak as a fool; I am more; in labors more abundant, in stripes above measure, in prisons more frequently, in deaths often.

2 Cor 11:24.  Of the Jews five times received I forty stripes, save one.

2 Cor 11:25.  Thrice was I beaten with rods, once was I stoned, thrice I suffered a shipwreck, a night and a day have I been in the deep;

2 Cor 11:26.  In journeyings often, in perils of waters, in perils of mine own countrymen, in perils by the gentiles, in perils in the city, in perils in the wilderness, in perils in the sea, in perils among false brethren.

2 Cor 11:27.  In weariness and painfulness, in watchings often, in hunger and thirst, in fastings often, in cold and nakedness.

2 Cor 11:28. Besides those things that are without, that which cometh upon me daily, the care of all the churches.

2 Cor 11:29. Who is weak, and I am not weak? Who is offended, and I am not indignant?

2 Cor 11:30. If I must needs glory, I will glory of the things which concern mine infirmities.

Phil 3:8. Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus, my Lord; for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but refuse, THAT I MAY WIN CHRIST. Paul is saved and has Jesus living in his earthen body and knows without a doubt that he possesses eternal life. What does Paul mean by wanting to win Christ when he already has him? Paul said in (Phil 3:13-14), Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended; but this one thing I do, forgetting those things that are behind, and reaching forth unto those things that are before. I press toward the mark FOR THE PRIZE of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus. The prize is winning Jesus as bridegroom and ruling with him as joint heirs.

Phil 3:9. And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith.

In Jesus' name.
Logged

- IN JESUS NAME -
ConqueredbyLove
Member
***

Manna: 24
Offline Offline

Mood:

Gender: Female
Posts: 424

Blog entries (0)

View Profile
« Reply #16 on: October 09, 2009, 11:19:17 PM »

Dear "larry2"....

How much have you suffered?

For until I know you have suffered tremendously, it is foolish for me to post another reply to you.

For, you see, we can quote Scripture as much as we want; that is very easy to do...but until we have endured sufferings after sufferings after sufferings after sufferings,...only then are we qualified to discuss such a topic.

I have earned, through my tremendous sufferings, which continue this day, the right to discuss it......have you?

People read my testimony and break down and cry over my sufferings....do they over yours?
Logged

~  For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ ~
2 Corinthians 4: 6
Christian Forums
« Reply #16 on: October 09, 2009, 11:19:17 PM »

 Logged
son of God
Senior Member
****

Manna: 29
Offline Offline

Mood:

Gender: Male
Posts: 1041

Blog entries (0)

View Profile
« Reply #17 on: October 09, 2009, 11:33:01 PM »

You have a limited point, Cbylove, but to take it to where you did, is no less improper than for one who has never suffered to be barred from understanding the scriptures which bespeak it.

It might be helpful to define suffering, from your understanding of it.  I think that from what I hear from many, and I am NOT putting you into this category, that losing a job is suffering, or having a stroke is suffering, etc..  I don't subscribe to that mindset.  Please clarify yourself for the rest of us here.  Thanks.
Logged
larry2
CHILD OF THE KING
Global Moderator
Hero
*****

Manna: 106
Online Online

Mood:

Posts: 3877

Blog entries (0)

View Profile
« Reply #18 on: October 09, 2009, 11:54:43 PM »


Dear ConqueredbyLove, a little one-upmanship? Were you truly beaten more than Paul, ship wrecked, etc. I won't relate my sufferings, but I live, and that in Christ. If scripture is not the standard, there is little purpose in your debating something you want no part of regardless of its reward.

You can holler till doomsday as it were, or brag and not exact the quality of suffering Jesus did for us. There's a horse sitting somewhere around here, and I think it's called a high horse; it's a quick trot down the street to pride.

If you're not aware, suffering also means enduring, and we read in Romans 8:17: "And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together." There is the difference of being a child of God, and being glorified together with Him if you want that place.

The OP asks why do the righteous suffer, and I will take scripture over your personal thoughts and experience of it any day. I might just ask why scripture seems to bother you as it does? Whatever you have gone trough does not negate the word of God.

In Jesus' name.

Logged

- IN JESUS NAME -
mjrhealth
Member
***

Manna: 21
Offline Offline

Mood:

Gender: Male
Posts: 203


Blog entries (0)

View Profile
« Reply #19 on: October 10, 2009, 12:17:23 AM »

Why do the rightous suffer,
1. because the enemy of our soul seaks to destroy us.
2. Lack of faith. It grows during testing.
3. Unbelief.

God would rather we all walked in perfect faith then nothing would trouble you, but the enemy seeks to destroy our faith, make God look to be something other then what He is, and he will use anyone, family, friends etc. This is why we suffer, but by enduring, our faith grows, our unbelief fades, and the enemy soon fades into the background. Its when we can go througha storm in perfect peace, just like Jesus in the boat with the disciples, that we know our faith is strong.
Logged

Jesus, the only way.....
ConqueredbyLove
Member
***

Manna: 24
Offline Offline

Mood:

Gender: Female
Posts: 424

Blog entries (0)

View Profile
« Reply #20 on: October 10, 2009, 12:23:04 AM »


Dear ConqueredbyLove, a little one-upmanship? Were you truly beaten more than Paul, ship wrecked, etc. I won't relate my sufferings, but I live, and that in Christ. If scripture is not the standard, there is little purpose in your debating something you want no part of regardless of its reward.

You can holler till doomsday as it were, or brag and not exact the quality of suffering Jesus did for us. There's a horse sitting somewhere around here, and I think it's called a high horse; it's a quick trot down the street to pride.

If you're not aware, suffering also means enduring, and we read in Romans 8:17: "And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together." There is the difference of being a child of God, and being glorified together with Him if you want that place.

The OP asks why do the righteous suffer, and I will take scripture over your personal thoughts and experience of it any day. I might just ask why scripture seems to bother you as it does? Whatever you have gone trough does not negate the word of God.

In Jesus' name.



larry2...I weep for you...and I will pray for you.  You truly do not understand....
Logged

~  For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ ~
2 Corinthians 4: 6
Christian Forums
« Reply #20 on: October 10, 2009, 12:23:04 AM »

 Logged
Doc
Christian Counselor
Member
***

Manna: 2
Offline Offline

Mood:

Gender: Male
Posts: 53


Psalm 115:1 - It's ALL About HIM!

Blog entries (0)

View Profile
« Reply #21 on: October 10, 2009, 10:32:32 AM »

Dear "larry2"....

How much have you suffered?

For until I know you have suffered tremendously, it is foolish for me to post another reply to you.

For, you see, we can quote Scripture as much as we want; that is very easy to do...but until we have endured sufferings after sufferings after sufferings after sufferings,...only then are we qualified to discuss such a topic.

I have earned, through my tremendous sufferings, which continue this day, the right to discuss it......have you?

People read my testimony and break down and cry over my sufferings....do they over yours?

Very, very, interesting.  My only reply is 2Corinthians 10:12: “Not that we dare to classify or compare ourselves with some of those who are commending themselves. But when they measure themselves by one another and compare themselves with one another, they are without understanding.”   BLESSINGS.  Doc
Logged

God only had ONE SON without sin, BUT God has NO SON without a cross!
ConqueredbyLove
Member
***

Manna: 24
Offline Offline

Mood:

Gender: Female
Posts: 424

Blog entries (0)

View Profile
« Reply #22 on: October 10, 2009, 04:36:54 PM »


Dear ConqueredbyLove, a little one-upmanship? Were you truly beaten more than Paul, ship wrecked, etc. I won't relate my sufferings, but I live, and that in Christ. If scripture is not the standard, there is little purpose in your debating something you want no part of regardless of its reward.

You can holler till doomsday as it were, or brag and not exact the quality of suffering Jesus did for us. There's a horse sitting somewhere around here, and I think it's called a high horse; it's a quick trot down the street to pride.


Larry,

I want to apologize to you for personally attacking you.  However, I did not post on this thread to debate.  I never want to debate something that is so dear to our Heavenly Father's heart...For no one knows the depth of suffering He has gone through in watching what His beloved Son went through.  I only posted to try and point out that there is deep mystery in suffering that we will never be able to explain through Scripture or experience.  For no one can explain all the whys of suffering...no one.  And I think we need to be careful when discussing this topic, especially with hurting Christians or non-Christians that are searching...   I am certain you are careful....

As for the suffering of endurance....I know it only too well.  I go through it every day.  I will leave it at that.

As for your claim "You can holler till doomsday as it were, or brag and not exact the quality of suffering Jesus did for us. There's a horse sitting somewhere around here, and I think it's called a high horse; it's a quick trot down the street to pride."...You have judged me in error and that saddens me, greatly.

For how can someone be prideful when they are ashamed at the ways they have handled sufferings, sometimes?........
Logged

~  For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ ~
2 Corinthians 4: 6
larry2
CHILD OF THE KING
Global Moderator
Hero
*****

Manna: 106
Online Online

Mood:

Posts: 3877

Blog entries (0)

View Profile
« Reply #23 on: October 10, 2009, 06:11:25 PM »


Dear ConqueredbyLove, a little one-upmanship? Were you truly beaten more than Paul, ship wrecked, etc. I won't relate my sufferings, but I live, and that in Christ. If scripture is not the standard, there is little purpose in your debating something you want no part of regardless of its reward.

You can holler till doomsday as it were, or brag and not exact the quality of suffering Jesus did for us. There's a horse sitting somewhere around here, and I think it's called a high horse; it's a quick trot down the street to pride.


Larry,

I want to apologize to you for personally attacking you.  However, I did not post on this thread to debate.  I never want to debate something that is so dear to our Heavenly Father's heart...For no one knows the depth of suffering He has gone through in watching what His beloved Son went through.  I only posted to try and point out that there is deep mystery in suffering that we will never be able to explain through Scripture or experience.  For no one can explain all the whys of suffering...no one.  And I think we need to be careful when discussing this topic, especially with hurting Christians or non-Christians that are searching...   I am certain you are careful....

As for the suffering of endurance....I know it only too well.  I go through it every day.  I will leave it at that.

As for your claim "You can holler till doomsday as it were, or brag and not exact the quality of suffering Jesus did for us. There's a horse sitting somewhere around here, and I think it's called a high horse; it's a quick trot down the street to pride."...You have judged me in error and that saddens me, greatly.

For how can someone be prideful when they are ashamed at the ways they have handled sufferings, sometimes?........


My sweet sister in Christ, I certainly am not your judge, and do not concemn you for justifying your thinking on it. We are God's workmanship, or work in progress, and I do not want to appear as Job's supposed friends were with him.

I do know that our Lord will always do that which is for our good for our sake, and He does many things past our understanding. God may be doing the very thing in your life that will glorify Him for eternity, and be shaping you to reign with Him.

Thank you for your kind reply in Jesus' name.

Logged

- IN JESUS NAME -
ConqueredbyLove
Member
***

Manna: 24
Offline Offline

Mood:

Gender: Female
Posts: 424

Blog entries (0)

View Profile
« Reply #24 on: October 10, 2009, 07:59:37 PM »

My sweet sister in Christ, I certainly am not your judge, and do not concemn you for justifying your thinking on it. We are God's workmanship, or work in progress, and I do not want to appear as Job's supposed friends were with him.

I do know that our Lord will always do that which is for our good for our sake, and He does many things past our understanding. God may be doing the very thing in your life that will glorify Him for eternity, and be shaping you to reign with Him.

Thank you for your kind reply in Jesus' name.

[/size]

Thank you.............You make me cry with your gracious reply to me..........thank you
Logged

~  For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ ~
2 Corinthians 4: 6
Christian Forums
« Reply #24 on: October 10, 2009, 07:59:37 PM »

 Logged
farouk
Senior Member
****

Manna: 18
Offline Offline

Mood:

Gender: Male
Posts: 1881


Blog entries (0)

View Profile
« Reply #25 on: October 13, 2009, 06:38:35 PM »

Philippians, which speaks of 'the fellowship of His sufferings' is also a relevant passage. Remember, the Philippian believers were to be joyful people.
Logged

John 3.16 contains great theology.

Read God's Word prayerfully every day.

Try vacationing in the South: plenty of sun, and some great churches down there!

(And if folks feel they must have tattoos, have you considered having them in faith related designs?)
Glorious
Junior Member
**

Manna: 2
Offline Offline

Mood:

Posts: 25

Blog entries (0)

View Profile
« Reply #26 on: October 14, 2009, 09:45:39 AM »

God wishes that His beloved  prospers and remain in good health. His kingdom is about righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Ghost. His fear culminating in salvation is about having no distress, anguish, desolation, or destruction.

So, why does the righteous suffer?

In all of scriptures related to suffering, INTERCESSION is implied. God allows the saint to suffer in intercession for others; that is, take up the suffering of others with a view to overcoming such suffering. Whosoever overcomes a suffering has power over such suffering; he or she is expected to minister that overcoming power on others who suffer.

Examples:
  • Jesus Christ - He suffered intercessorily for mankind. For example, He suffered death that He might overcome death and give us that power that overcomes death.
  • Paul - Col 1:24 declares: Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up that which is behind of the afflictions of Christ in my flesh for his body's sake, which is the church
If a man suffers not for the sake of others, he should seek help and healing - God is about healing people and not about inflicting pain.

The faith of God, that is a gift from God, has nothing to do with suffering pain. Rather, it has longsuffering (patiently allowing and doing things of God for a long time) as one of constituents.
Logged

Grace and peace from God and from the Christ unto all!
haveahope
Member
***

Manna: 3
Offline Offline

Mood:

Posts: 46

Blog entries (0)

View Profile
« Reply #27 on: October 14, 2009, 11:51:55 AM »

I can't offer much better wisdom that many of you here, but it walking with the Lord, having had mountains and valleys for over 25 years, times when I've wondered wow, God must think I'm pretty strong to give me these trials and pain, because I know His Word promises never to give us more than we will be able to endure.  I thought maybe I had to question His judgement (JK)! Smile  And then there are times of smooth sailing and well, rest.  Life is a journey, along the way we have sufferings and pain, blessings beyond belief, days of just going along and when we walk with Him daily, we come to realize He is there in every day - holding us up, whispering His love, sad when we stumble, always ready to reach down and pick us up.   That's the nature of our wonderful Saviour.
  Many years ago a sweet saint of God sent me and my husband a post card with this poem on it.  It was one our refrigerator for many decades, until sadly we lost it.  It has brought me many moments of joy and through many tears. 
What God Has Promised
Annie Johnson Flint


God has not promised
Skies always blue,
Flower-strewn pathways,
All our lives through.
God has not promised
Sun without rain,
Joy without sorrow,
Peace without pain.

God has not promised
That we shall not know
Toil and temptation,
Trouble and woe;
He has not told us
We shall not bear
Many a burden,
Many a care.

God has not promised
Smooth roads and wide,
Swift, easy travel,
Needing no guide;
Never a mountain,
Rocky and steep,
Never a river
Turbid and deep:

But God has promised
Strength for the day,
Rest for the labor,
Light for the way,
Grace for the trials,
Help from above,
Unfailing sympathy,
Undying love
Logged
Christian Forums
« Reply #27 on: October 14, 2009, 11:51:55 AM »

 Logged
larry2
CHILD OF THE KING
Global Moderator
Hero
*****

Manna: 106
Online Online

Mood:

Posts: 3877

Blog entries (0)

View Profile
« Reply #28 on: October 14, 2009, 12:54:31 PM »


Dear Sister haveahope, beautiful and manna.   Smile
Logged

- IN JESUS NAME -
haveahope
Member
***

Manna: 3
Offline Offline

Mood:

Posts: 46

Blog entries (0)

View Profile
« Reply #29 on: October 14, 2009, 03:55:23 PM »

Much thanks to you Bro. Larry2!  My first manna!!! Just wanted to spread a little sunshine!
Have a blessed day.
HAH
Logged
Christian Forums
   

 Logged
SUFFERING - WHY DO THE RIGHTEOUS SUFFER? - Pages: 1 [2] 3 Go Up Print 
« previous next »
Jump to:  



Login with username, password and session length

Grace-Centered Christian Forums
Bible concordance | abortion ticker | is God real? | galaga | play tetris | copter game | mini golf games | arcade | donkey kong | Christian marriage help | articles | privacy
Powered by SMF | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines LLC