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Author Topic: Do Catholic’s believe they will enter heaven if he or she does not love Jesus?  (Read 4104 times)

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Offline jonahmano

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@ Light Hammer

I was answering the question posted by a person who really wanted to clarify things and I didn't understand what made you mean comical of my answer. I was a catholic before accepting Jesus as my personal savior.

I think it's better you correct me than brushing of as comical. Anyways I think you must respect people rather than making them upset

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Offline Teresa

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Do you love Jesus?

You don’t love Jesus if you deliberately commit sin, if you sin you are of the devil.

Do Catholic’s believe they will enter heaven if he or she does not love Jesus? 

Are you serious about this question?

And if so, what makes you think we might believe otherwise?

Pace et Bonum

Teresa
By His Wounds, we are healed.

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Offline Giver

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Do you love Jesus?

You don’t love Jesus if you deliberately commit sin, if you sin you are of the devil.

Do Catholic’s believe they will enter heaven if he or she does not love Jesus? 

Are you serious about this question?

And if so, what makes you think we might believe otherwise?

Pace et Bonum

Teresa
(Hebrews 10:26-31) “If, after we have been given knowledge of the truth, we should deliberately commit any sins, then there is no longer any sacrifice for them.  There is left only the dreadful prospect of judgment and of the fiery wrath that is to devour your enemies.  Anyone who disregards the Law of Moses is ruthlessly put to death on the word of two witnesses or three; and you may be sure that anyone who tramples on the Son of God, and who treats the blood of the covenant which sanctified him as if it were not holy, and who insults the Spirit of grace, will be condemned to a far severer punishment.  We are all aware who it was that said: Vengeance is mine; I will vindicate his people.  It is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
I am a temple of God where no sin exists. 

No matter who tell one anything about God he or she needs to ask Jesus if it is right or wrong.

Offline HRoberson

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Do you love Jesus?

You don’t love Jesus if you deliberately commit sin, if you sin you are of the devil.

Do Catholic’s believe they will enter heaven if he or she does not love Jesus?  

Are you serious about this question?

And if so, what makes you think we might believe otherwise?

Pace et Bonum

Teresa
(Hebrews 10:26-31) “If, after we have been given knowledge of the truth, we should deliberately commit any sins, then there is no longer any sacrifice for them.  There is left only the dreadful prospect of judgment and of the fiery wrath that is to devour your enemies.  Anyone who disregards the Law of Moses is ruthlessly put to death on the word of two witnesses or three; and you may be sure that anyone who tramples on the Son of God, and who treats the blood of the covenant which sanctified him as if it were not holy, and who insults the Spirit of grace, will be condemned to a far severer punishment.  We are all aware who it was that said: Vengeance is mine; I will vindicate his people.  It is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
« Last Edit: January 16, 2012, 09:41:51 AM by HRoberson »
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I didn't say it was your fault. I said I was going to blame you.
We're not interested in Christ-like behavior here; we want to know what the rules are.
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Sometimes you just have to let it go.

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Offline Giver

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Case in point Teresa, Hroberson would like you to believe the Holy Spirit had man put Hebrews in the bible to give us a history lesson.  Like it is in the bible to speak to people long ago dead.  Seem like there could have been better letters, which could have been included.  Any way Hebrews needs to be discredited by Protestants, and most Catholics need to ignore it also.

He or she would not want to have Hebrews speaking to us, if people especially Protestants/Calvinist/Lutherans had to accept what Hebrews says, all their theology would go down the drain into the garbage where it belongs.
I am a temple of God where no sin exists. 

No matter who tell one anything about God he or she needs to ask Jesus if it is right or wrong.

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Offline HRoberson

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Case in point Teresa, Hroberson would like you to believe the Holy Spirit had man put Hebrews in the bible to give us a history lesson.  Like it is in the bible to speak to people long ago dead.  Seem like there could have been better letters, which could have been included.  Any way Hebrews needs to be discredited by Protestants, and most Catholics need to ignore it also.

He or she would not want to have Hebrews speaking to us, if people especially Protestants/Calvinist/Lutherans had to accept what Hebrews says, all their theology would go down the drain into the garbage where it belongs.

Actually, Hebrews is both. But it doesn't say anything to us that it didn't say to them. Hebrews was written first and primarily to the Hebrew readers. We can draw principles and lessons.

Early in the churches history it was fashionable to allegorize everything. Every detail in a parable was given some additional meaning completely out of line with the text. This because it was fashionable at the time of these early church writings to use allegory, despite that it wasn't at the time the parables were written/uttered. Early deductions based on those allegories resulted in heresies and odd doctrine that have no anchor in the text.

The same is true today. People see in the text whatever theory they care to find without regard to the overall story or the purpose of the original writing. Just as allegory made sense and sounded wise to those who practiced it, so too do these theories which are made up to fit a preference that sounds cool, that makes us feel important because we have ferreted out this hidden prophecy.

But in truth, these theories are just as much vapor and baseless as were the allegorical "truths" propounded early on.
« Last Edit: January 16, 2012, 11:47:06 AM by HRoberson »
Me, MC, MS, LMFT
The Enlightened One
Wizard of Smart
aC, LP, MC, BfS, Coop, SS, nKJV, EoG

I didn't say it was your fault. I said I was going to blame you.
We're not interested in Christ-like behavior here; we want to know what the rules are.
...to love mercy, act justly, and walk humbly with God
Sometimes you just have to let it go.

Offline Giver

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Case in point Teresa, Hroberson would like you to believe the Holy Spirit had man put Hebrews in the bible to give us a history lesson.  Like it is in the bible to speak to people long ago dead.  Seem like there could have been better letters, which could have been included.  Any way Hebrews needs to be discredited by Protestants, and most Catholics need to ignore it also.

He or she would not want to have Hebrews speaking to us, if people especially Protestants/Calvinist/Lutherans had to accept what Hebrews says, all their theology would go down the drain into the garbage where it belongs.

Actually, Hebrews is both. But it doesn't say anything to us that it didn't say to them. Hebrews was written first and primarily to the Hebrew readers. We can draw principles and lessons.

Early in the churches history it was fashionable to allegorize everything. Every detail in a parable was given some additional meaning completely out of line with the text. This because it was fashionable at the time of these early church writings to use allegory, despite that it wasn't at the time the parables were written/uttered. Early deductions based on those allegories resulted in heresies and odd doctrine that have no anchor in the text.

The same is true today. People see in the text whatever theory they care to find without regard to the overall story or the purpose of the original writing. Just as allegory made sense and sounded wise to those who practiced it, so too do these theories which are made up to fit a preference that sounds cool, that makes us feel important because we have ferreted out this hidden prophecy.

But in truth, these theories are just as much vapor and baseless as were the allegorical "truths" propounded early on.
You are trying to sound educated, and knowledgeable and this is supposed to give others confidence that you have credibility.  Well first we are not talking about a parable.  Next the Church dealt with the, heresies, anyway all the heresies until Luther, Calvin and the likes came along.

The Holy Sprit placed Hebrew in the bible, and the Words in the bible are there to tell us what God expects of us.  Because people no longer understand how they can live without sinning, they need to discard what Hebrews says.

I am a temple of God where no sin exists. 

No matter who tell one anything about God he or she needs to ask Jesus if it is right or wrong.

Offline HRoberson

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Case in point Teresa, Hroberson would like you to believe the Holy Spirit had man put Hebrews in the bible to give us a history lesson.  Like it is in the bible to speak to people long ago dead.  Seem like there could have been better letters, which could have been included.  Any way Hebrews needs to be discredited by Protestants, and most Catholics need to ignore it also.

He or she would not want to have Hebrews speaking to us, if people especially Protestants/Calvinist/Lutherans had to accept what Hebrews says, all their theology would go down the drain into the garbage where it belongs.

Actually, Hebrews is both. But it doesn't say anything to us that it didn't say to them. Hebrews was written first and primarily to the Hebrew readers. We can draw principles and lessons.

Early in the churches history it was fashionable to allegorize everything. Every detail in a parable was given some additional meaning completely out of line with the text. This because it was fashionable at the time of these early church writings to use allegory, despite that it wasn't at the time the parables were written/uttered. Early deductions based on those allegories resulted in heresies and odd doctrine that have no anchor in the text.

The same is true today. People see in the text whatever theory they care to find without regard to the overall story or the purpose of the original writing. Just as allegory made sense and sounded wise to those who practiced it, so too do these theories which are made up to fit a preference that sounds cool, that makes us feel important because we have ferreted out this hidden prophecy.

But in truth, these theories are just as much vapor and baseless as were the allegorical "truths" propounded early on.
You are trying to sound educated, and knowledgeable and this is supposed to give others confidence that you have credibility.  Well first we are not talking about a parable.  Next the Church dealt with the, heresies, anyway all the heresies until Luther, Calvin and the likes came along.

The Holy Sprit placed Hebrew in the bible, and the Words in the bible are there to tell us what God expects of us.  Because people no longer understand how they can live without sinning, they need to discard what Hebrews says.


Actually, I'm not trying to "sound educated." I am. You make too many jumps in logic, not understanding Scripture.
Me, MC, MS, LMFT
The Enlightened One
Wizard of Smart
aC, LP, MC, BfS, Coop, SS, nKJV, EoG

I didn't say it was your fault. I said I was going to blame you.
We're not interested in Christ-like behavior here; we want to know what the rules are.
...to love mercy, act justly, and walk humbly with God
Sometimes you just have to let it go.

Offline Giver

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Case in point Teresa, Hroberson would like you to believe the Holy Spirit had man put Hebrews in the bible to give us a history lesson.  Like it is in the bible to speak to people long ago dead.  Seem like there could have been better letters, which could have been included.  Any way Hebrews needs to be discredited by Protestants, and most Catholics need to ignore it also.

He or she would not want to have Hebrews speaking to us, if people especially Protestants/Calvinist/Lutherans had to accept what Hebrews says, all their theology would go down the drain into the garbage where it belongs.

Actually, Hebrews is both. But it doesn't say anything to us that it didn't say to them. Hebrews was written first and primarily to the Hebrew readers. We can draw principles and lessons.

Early in the churches history it was fashionable to allegorize everything. Every detail in a parable was given some additional meaning completely out of line with the text. This because it was fashionable at the time of these early church writings to use allegory, despite that it wasn't at the time the parables were written/uttered. Early deductions based on those allegories resulted in heresies and odd doctrine that have no anchor in the text.

The same is true today. People see in the text whatever theory they care to find without regard to the overall story or the purpose of the original writing. Just as allegory made sense and sounded wise to those who practiced it, so too do these theories which are made up to fit a preference that sounds cool, that makes us feel important because we have ferreted out this hidden prophecy.

But in truth, these theories are just as much vapor and baseless as were the allegorical "truths" propounded early on.
You are trying to sound educated, and knowledgeable and this is supposed to give others confidence that you have credibility.  Well first we are not talking about a parable.  Next the Church dealt with the, heresies, anyway all the heresies until Luther, Calvin and the likes came along.

The Holy Sprit placed Hebrew in the bible, and the Words in the bible are there to tell us what God expects of us.  Because people no longer understand how they can live without sinning, they need to discard what Hebrews says.


Actually, I'm not trying to "sound educated." I am. You make too many jumps in logic, not understanding Scripture.
Saying someone has made jumps in logic does not mean he or she has.

Also I may not be intelligent, but I sure am knowledgeable about God.  You see one does not need to be intelligent when one has God as his or her teacher.     
I am a temple of God where no sin exists. 

No matter who tell one anything about God he or she needs to ask Jesus if it is right or wrong.

Offline HRoberson

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Case in point Teresa, Hroberson would like you to believe the Holy Spirit had man put Hebrews in the bible to give us a history lesson.  Like it is in the bible to speak to people long ago dead.  Seem like there could have been better letters, which could have been included.  Any way Hebrews needs to be discredited by Protestants, and most Catholics need to ignore it also.

He or she would not want to have Hebrews speaking to us, if people especially Protestants/Calvinist/Lutherans had to accept what Hebrews says, all their theology would go down the drain into the garbage where it belongs.

Actually, Hebrews is both. But it doesn't say anything to us that it didn't say to them. Hebrews was written first and primarily to the Hebrew readers. We can draw principles and lessons.

Early in the churches history it was fashionable to allegorize everything. Every detail in a parable was given some additional meaning completely out of line with the text. This because it was fashionable at the time of these early church writings to use allegory, despite that it wasn't at the time the parables were written/uttered. Early deductions based on those allegories resulted in heresies and odd doctrine that have no anchor in the text.

The same is true today. People see in the text whatever theory they care to find without regard to the overall story or the purpose of the original writing. Just as allegory made sense and sounded wise to those who practiced it, so too do these theories which are made up to fit a preference that sounds cool, that makes us feel important because we have ferreted out this hidden prophecy.

But in truth, these theories are just as much vapor and baseless as were the allegorical "truths" propounded early on.
You are trying to sound educated, and knowledgeable and this is supposed to give others confidence that you have credibility.  Well first we are not talking about a parable.  Next the Church dealt with the, heresies, anyway all the heresies until Luther, Calvin and the likes came along.

The Holy Sprit placed Hebrew in the bible, and the Words in the bible are there to tell us what God expects of us.  Because people no longer understand how they can live without sinning, they need to discard what Hebrews says.


Actually, I'm not trying to "sound educated." I am. You make too many jumps in logic, not understanding Scripture.
Saying someone has made jumps in logic does not mean he or she has.

Also I may not be intelligent, but I sure am knowledgeable about God.  You see one does not need to be intelligent when one has God as his or her teacher.      

Well, I agree that one need not be "intelligent" to know God. However, it helps to be intelligent when one wants to discuss ancient literature effectively. The Bible was not written last year by English-speaking clergy in the American church. What it says, why it says it, and the manner in which those things are expressed are understood differently than by simply reading the text. Proper understanding is largely dependent on having a deeper knowledge of the text.
« Last Edit: January 16, 2012, 02:52:05 PM by HRoberson »
Me, MC, MS, LMFT
The Enlightened One
Wizard of Smart
aC, LP, MC, BfS, Coop, SS, nKJV, EoG

I didn't say it was your fault. I said I was going to blame you.
We're not interested in Christ-like behavior here; we want to know what the rules are.
...to love mercy, act justly, and walk humbly with God
Sometimes you just have to let it go.

Offline LightHammer

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Case in point Teresa, Hroberson would like you to believe the Holy Spirit had man put Hebrews in the bible to give us a history lesson.  Like it is in the bible to speak to people long ago dead.  Seem like there could have been better letters, which could have been included.  Any way Hebrews needs to be discredited by Protestants, and most Catholics need to ignore it also.

He or she would not want to have Hebrews speaking to us, if people especially Protestants/Calvinist/Lutherans had to accept what Hebrews says, all their theology would go down the drain into the garbage where it belongs.

Actually, Hebrews is both. But it doesn't say anything to us that it didn't say to them. Hebrews was written first and primarily to the Hebrew readers. We can draw principles and lessons.

Early in the churches history it was fashionable to allegorize everything. Every detail in a parable was given some additional meaning completely out of line with the text. This because it was fashionable at the time of these early church writings to use allegory, despite that it wasn't at the time the parables were written/uttered. Early deductions based on those allegories resulted in heresies and odd doctrine that have no anchor in the text.

The same is true today. People see in the text whatever theory they care to find without regard to the overall story or the purpose of the original writing. Just as allegory made sense and sounded wise to those who practiced it, so too do these theories which are made up to fit a preference that sounds cool, that makes us feel important because we have ferreted out this hidden prophecy.

But in truth, these theories are just as much vapor and baseless as were the allegorical "truths" propounded early on.
You are trying to sound educated, and knowledgeable and this is supposed to give others confidence that you have credibility.  Well first we are not talking about a parable.  Next the Church dealt with the, heresies, anyway all the heresies until Luther, Calvin and the likes came along.

The Holy Sprit placed Hebrew in the bible, and the Words in the bible are there to tell us what God expects of us.  Because people no longer understand how they can live without sinning, they need to discard what Hebrews says.


Actually, I'm not trying to "sound educated." I am. You make too many jumps in logic, not understanding Scripture.
Saying someone has made jumps in logic does not mean he or she has.

Also I may not be intelligent, but I sure am knowledgeable about God.  You see one does not need to be intelligent when one has God as his or her teacher.      

Well, I agree that one need not be "intelligent" to know God. However, it helps to be intelligent when one wants to discuss ancient literature effectively. The Bible was not written last year by English-speaking clergy in the American church. What it says, why it says it, and the manner in which those things are expressed are understood differently than by simply reading the text. Proper understanding is largely dependent on having a deeper knowledge of the text.

Goodness gracious! Take some of this manna.

Happy Dr. MLK Jr. Day fam.

Peace
"For they needs must seek some support,  since they have fallen from the foundation of the Apostles and have no settled mind of their own, and if they can find none, then they malign the fathers. But no one will believe them any more even if they make efforts to libel them, for their heresy is condemned on all hands." St. Athanasius of Alexandria

Offline Giver

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Case in point Teresa, Hroberson would like you to believe the Holy Spirit had man put Hebrews in the bible to give us a history lesson.  Like it is in the bible to speak to people long ago dead.  Seem like there could have been better letters, which could have been included.  Any way Hebrews needs to be discredited by Protestants, and most Catholics need to ignore it also.

He or she would not want to have Hebrews speaking to us, if people especially Protestants/Calvinist/Lutherans had to accept what Hebrews says, all their theology would go down the drain into the garbage where it belongs.

Actually, Hebrews is both. But it doesn't say anything to us that it didn't say to them. Hebrews was written first and primarily to the Hebrew readers. We can draw principles and lessons.

Early in the churches history it was fashionable to allegorize everything. Every detail in a parable was given some additional meaning completely out of line with the text. This because it was fashionable at the time of these early church writings to use allegory, despite that it wasn't at the time the parables were written/uttered. Early deductions based on those allegories resulted in heresies and odd doctrine that have no anchor in the text.

The same is true today. People see in the text whatever theory they care to find without regard to the overall story or the purpose of the original writing. Just as allegory made sense and sounded wise to those who practiced it, so too do these theories which are made up to fit a preference that sounds cool, that makes us feel important because we have ferreted out this hidden prophecy.

But in truth, these theories are just as much vapor and baseless as were the allegorical "truths" propounded early on.
You are trying to sound educated, and knowledgeable and this is supposed to give others confidence that you have credibility.  Well first we are not talking about a parable.  Next the Church dealt with the, heresies, anyway all the heresies until Luther, Calvin and the likes came along.

The Holy Sprit placed Hebrew in the bible, and the Words in the bible are there to tell us what God expects of us.  Because people no longer understand how they can live without sinning, they need to discard what Hebrews says.


Actually, I'm not trying to "sound educated." I am. You make too many jumps in logic, not understanding Scripture.
Saying someone has made jumps in logic does not mean he or she has.

Also I may not be intelligent, but I sure am knowledgeable about God.  You see one does not need to be intelligent when one has God as his or her teacher.     

Well, I agree that one need not be "intelligent" to know God. However, it helps to be intelligent when one wants to discuss ancient literature effectively. The Bible was not written last year by English-speaking clergy in the American church. What it says, why it says it, and the manner in which those things are expressed are understood differently than by simply reading the text. Proper understanding is largely dependent on having a deeper knowledge of the text.
No that is not intelligence it is just an ability to read, and remember what one has read. 

Also the truth then becomes hazy, because history is not a very exact science. 

The only way one can ever know the truth is to have Jesus/Holy Spirit teach him or her.

(1 John 2:27) “But you have not lost the anointing that he gave you, and you do not need anyone to teach you, the anointing he gave teaches you everything; you are anointed with truth, not a lie, and as it has taught you, so you must stay in him.
I am a temple of God where no sin exists. 

No matter who tell one anything about God he or she needs to ask Jesus if it is right or wrong.

Offline HRoberson

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The only way one can ever know the truth is to have Jesus/Holy Spirit teach him or her.
Then why do we have a Bible, and why has God allowed to exist for 2000 years?
Me, MC, MS, LMFT
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aC, LP, MC, BfS, Coop, SS, nKJV, EoG

I didn't say it was your fault. I said I was going to blame you.
We're not interested in Christ-like behavior here; we want to know what the rules are.
...to love mercy, act justly, and walk humbly with God
Sometimes you just have to let it go.

Offline Giver

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The only way one can ever know the truth is to have Jesus/Holy Spirit teach him or her.
Then why do we have a Bible, and why has God allowed to exist for 2000 years?
First of all the bible has not existed for two thousand years.  Again it does not take intelligence to read the bible.  It only takes the ability to read, but to understand the written Word of God it takes the Holy Spirit.

Now you say you’re an intelligent person so read the following verse and see if you can understand what it says.

(1 Corinthians 2:10-16)  “These are the very things that God has revealed to us through the Spirit, for the Spirit reaches the depts. Of everything, even the depths of God.  After all, the depths of a man can only be known by his own spirit, not by any other man, and in the same way the depths of God can only be known by the Spirit of God. Now instead of the spirit of the world, we have received the Spirit that comes from God, to teach us to understand the gifts that he has given us.  Therefore we teach, not in the way in which philosophy is taught, but in the way that the Spirit teaches us: we teach spiritual things spiritually.  A spiritual man, on the other hand, is able to judge the value of everything and his own value in not to be judged by other men.  As scripture says;’ who can know the mind of the Lord, so who can teach him?’  But we are those who have the mind of Christ.
I am a temple of God where no sin exists. 

No matter who tell one anything about God he or she needs to ask Jesus if it is right or wrong.

Offline HRoberson

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Yeah, OK.

If all we need is for God to whisper in our ear, WHY do we have a Bible?

What's the point?
Me, MC, MS, LMFT
The Enlightened One
Wizard of Smart
aC, LP, MC, BfS, Coop, SS, nKJV, EoG

I didn't say it was your fault. I said I was going to blame you.
We're not interested in Christ-like behavior here; we want to know what the rules are.
...to love mercy, act justly, and walk humbly with God
Sometimes you just have to let it go.