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Offline tidbit

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Does Eden still exist?
« on: February 25, 2005, 11:02:49 PM »
Genesis 3:22-24:

Quote
22 And the LORD God said, "The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever." 23 So the LORD God banished him from the Garden of Eden to work the ground from which he had been taken. 24 After he drove the man out, he placed on the east side of the Garden of Eden cherubim and a flaming sword flashing back and forth to guard the way to the tree of life.

So my question is, does the Garden of Eden still exist?  If so, where is it?  If not, what became of it?

Hint:  Before you say that it does not exist, you might want to consider Revelation 2:7, and 22:1-5, 14

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« on: February 25, 2005, 11:02:49 PM »

Offline Mere Nick

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Does Eden still exist?
« Reply #1 on: February 26, 2005, 12:00:44 AM »
My brother works at the Miller brewery in Eden NC and my youngest daughter is named Eden.

It has been my understanding that the original Garden of Eden was in Iraq.  However, based upon pictures and videos from that country, the garden ain't in too good a shape if it's still around.  Besides, it gets hotter than all get out in the summertime.
taller, better looking and smarter . . .

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Does Eden still exist?
« Reply #1 on: February 26, 2005, 12:00:44 AM »

Offline marc

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Does Eden still exist?
« Reply #2 on: February 26, 2005, 06:58:24 AM »
I would say that the spiritual Eden referred to in Revelation still exists, giving hope to all Christians, letting us know that we can eat of the tree of life.

But I would also say that this is no more the literal, grown-from-dirt-branches-and-leaves tree of life than the armies of locusts with scorpion tails, lion's teeth, women's hair and mens faces are literal scary creatures.   :D

Never lose an opportunity of seeing anything beautiful, for beauty is God's handwriting.
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'where God tears great gaps we should not try to fill them with human words. They should remain open'   D Bonhoeffer.

T.S. Eliot was an optimist.


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Offline DCR

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Does Eden still exist?
« Reply #3 on: February 26, 2005, 08:24:08 AM »
My thoughts on Eden and the early chapters of Genesis... those events are not eye-witness accounts (unless Adam could read and write).  Of course, no man was around to witness the six days of creation except God Himself.  So, the telling of this could only be revealed by God to someone (probably Moses).  In that light, it is prophecy, isn't it?

Usually, we think about prophecy as being about events in the future.  But, in the Bible, it has a broader meaning than that.  Could we not say that early Genesis is prophecy... about the past?

With that in mind... given that prophecy of future events often has figurative language... could it be possible that some of what we read in early Genesis could be figurative?

It's interesting that we have references to the serpent, the garden, and the tree of life again in the book of Revelation.

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« Reply #3 on: February 26, 2005, 08:24:08 AM »

Offline rick6886

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Does Eden still exist?
« Reply #4 on: February 26, 2005, 10:11:58 AM »
Gen 2:9 NIV

And the LORD God made all kinds of trees grow out of the ground-trees that were pleasing to the eye and good for food. In the middle of the garden were "THE TREE OF LIFE" and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. (quotes and bold are mine)

Rev 22:19 NIV

And if anyone takes words away from this book of prophecy, God will take away from him his share in "THE TREE OF LIFE" and in the holy city, which are described in this book.

I specifically chose the NIV, since the KJV renders Rev 22:19 inaccuarately with "the book of life", instead of "the tree of life".

God specifically identified 2 trees in the garden of Eden, the tree of the knowledge of good and evil and the tree of life. The tree of life is also acknowledged at the end of the age. So I would answer yes that some form of Eden still exists because I believe the tree in Gen 2 and the tree in Rev 22 are the same thing.

I think Rev 22:14 also implies that the place the tree is still in its original spot, guarded by the gates.

my humble 2 cents

Rick

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« Reply #4 on: February 26, 2005, 10:11:58 AM »



Offline marc

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Does Eden still exist?
« Reply #5 on: February 26, 2005, 10:38:47 AM »
If this were a literal tree on earth, wouldn't it have been destoyed by the flood?
Never lose an opportunity of seeing anything beautiful, for beauty is God's handwriting.
Ralph Waldo Emerson

'where God tears great gaps we should not try to fill them with human words. They should remain open'   D Bonhoeffer.

T.S. Eliot was an optimist.


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Offline mike

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« Reply #6 on: February 26, 2005, 01:28:42 PM »
Of course not, marc!

It is the tree of LIFE ---- It could therefore keep itself alive.  :p

Mike
"The secret of life is enjoying the passage of time."

Offline James Rondon

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Does Eden still exist?
« Reply #7 on: February 26, 2005, 02:19:37 PM »
Quote
I specifically chose the NIV, since the KJV renders Rev 22:19 inaccuarately with "the book of life", instead of "the tree of life".
Interesting, Rick. The Textus Receptus has the word "biblos" in this passage, which would be translated as "book", instead of the word "xulon", which would be translated as "tree". I wonder if the other manuscripts actually have the word "xulon", instead of "biblos", or if this is just how the NIV translates the passage?



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Offline mike

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« Reply #8 on: February 26, 2005, 03:47:56 PM »
James, I can read a little Greek, but certainly don't pretend to be a Greek scholar. So, I am just reporting here, not interpreting.

My copy of the eclectic Greek text that the NIV was based on has this phrase: xulou tes zoes (my transliteration) for tree of life.

Mike
"The secret of life is enjoying the passage of time."

Offline James Rondon

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« Reply #9 on: February 26, 2005, 04:12:34 PM »
Thanks, Mike... Then it appears to be a manuscript issue, instead of just a translation issue.

Offline rick6886

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Does Eden still exist?
« Reply #10 on: February 27, 2005, 05:59:34 PM »
Quote
Thanks, Mike... Then it appears to be a manuscript issue, instead of just a translation issue.
I guess the question really becomes then, is there such thing as a book of life?

Offline lch

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Does Eden still exist?
« Reply #11 on: February 27, 2005, 06:25:17 PM »
I found this:

Genesis 13:10 --  And Lot lifted his eyes and saw all the plain of Jordan, that it was well-watered everywhere (before the Lord destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah) like the garden of the Lord, like the land of Egypt as you go toward Zoar.

Does this refer to the garden of Eden?  It might!  I would think the Lord's glory was removed from the garden and everything went the way of all living things on the earth.  This time period here is, what, perhaps 2000 years after the expulsion from the garden.
"Religion was a divisive element from the beginning of Christ's church..Faith from reading the truth brings us all together by what Jesus did..trusting in his blood..but then..alas..Men try to organize their faith and end up with religion..and then they take religion and put it on a pedestal and call it truth." -- Peck (in memory of a gentle, caring, loving soul)

Offline marc

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Does Eden still exist?
« Reply #12 on: February 27, 2005, 06:33:25 PM »
The Garden of Eden is actually located in an unlikely place, in Arizona's Superstition Mountains.  

You see, the "Tigris" and "Euphrates" that we now know aren't the same ones that existed back before the flood.  Noah and his kids gave these rivers near where the ark landed their names, because they reminded them of the rivers they had back home (think Manchester, NH, New York, Paris, Tennessee, Bill France, etc.).

But the Garden of Eden still exists, in a hidden valley in the Supertition Mountains. You drop down over a craggy, dry, mountain, and there it is:  a green, sub-tropical paradise, filled with greenery, exotic birds and crystal streams.

 Unfortunately, it is near where Jacob Walz, aka "The Lost Dutchman" struck gold.  You've probably heard the stories of how so many people who have went looking for the Lost Dutchman's gold have mysteriously vanished or have turned up dead.  Many people blame this on a curse placed on the mine.  In reality, it is the work of the Cherubim and flaming sword that God placed at the gates of the Garden to protect the tree of life.

Only one person has stumbled across this valley and survived.  Yours truly.  The date of birth I listed in my profile is wrong; I was actually born in 1812.  I am the Lost Dutchman himself.

Every word of this is true, except those containing vowells, of course.  :p
Never lose an opportunity of seeing anything beautiful, for beauty is God's handwriting.
Ralph Waldo Emerson

'where God tears great gaps we should not try to fill them with human words. They should remain open'   D Bonhoeffer.

T.S. Eliot was an optimist.


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Offline s1n4m1n

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Does Eden still exist?
« Reply #13 on: February 27, 2005, 07:06:57 PM »
Some have postulated that the Garden of Eden was/is located in Israel. When Joshua and the Hebrews got to the Jordan River after the wanderings in the desert they met an Angel of the Lord. This is taken as the self same angel with the flaming sword.

Ken

Offline marc

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« Reply #14 on: February 27, 2005, 07:09:59 PM »
Is a Cherubim actually a type of angel, or is it something different?  I've always assumed it was, but have been challenged on this recently.

(btw, I think that equating Israel--"The Promised Land" with the Garden of Eden has something going for it.)
Never lose an opportunity of seeing anything beautiful, for beauty is God's handwriting.
Ralph Waldo Emerson

'where God tears great gaps we should not try to fill them with human words. They should remain open'   D Bonhoeffer.

T.S. Eliot was an optimist.


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