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Author Topic: FEAR ...Motivates the Secret Rapture Theory  (Read 5518 times)

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Offline rkhufu7

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Re: FEAR ...Motivates the Secret Rapture Theory
« Reply #15 on: December 22, 2008, 09:57:34 AM »
Anti-Christ denies that Jesus was the Christ, but most false teachers claim a Jesus and a gospel, both of which are false.  The caught up happens at the last trump, not 7 years before the end.  Christians believe that they will be caught up to meet Jesus on his return, they just don't link it to the 70th week of Daniel!

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Re: FEAR ...Motivates the Secret Rapture Theory
« Reply #15 on: December 22, 2008, 09:57:34 AM »

Offline Lee Freeman

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Re: FEAR ...Motivates the Secret Rapture Theory
« Reply #16 on: December 22, 2008, 04:30:57 PM »
This is my biggest problem with every single rapture discussion out there.

Each side claims the others are unbiblical, God-haters, false teachers, false prophets, bad Christians or what-not.

HELLO!!!!  This is NOT a salvation issue! 
I beg to differ with you on that, because of what I read in Galations  5:19   Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are [these]...... heresies,   and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told [you] in time past, that they which do such things .......shall not inherit the kingdom of God. 

 

3am, I think what k-pappy is geting at is this.

Ask yourself, what did Jesus die for? Did Jesus really die for one person or denomination's interpretation of the end-times? I have a hard time believing he did. When Paul defined the gospel in II Timothy 2:8 I can't find millennial eschatology anywhere in his definition.

As one of the pastors from my tradition, a very wise man named Carl Ketcherside, once said:

"All error (false teaching) is equally wrong, however all error is not equally important."

It simply does not matter, practically speaking, whether one is a classical premillennialist,  a modern dispensational premillennialist, a post-millennialist, a preterist, or an a-millennialist. All appeal to scripture to support their views, but all cannot be right. Besides which, the gospel concerns the death, burial and resurrection of Christ. Tacking on premillennialism is an adulteration of the gospel.

The heresy which Paul was fighting in Galatia was a heresy of works-righteousness, which said that before people could be saved they had to obey the law and be a good Jew first.

As I keep reminding you guys, all millennial prophets to date have a 100% failure rate.

Pax.

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Re: FEAR ...Motivates the Secret Rapture Theory
« Reply #16 on: December 22, 2008, 04:30:57 PM »

Offline 3AM

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Re: FEAR ...Motivates the Secret Rapture Theory
« Reply #17 on: December 23, 2008, 10:36:32 AM »
Proper understanding of Bible prophecy, is always important.

 When the Jewish nation misunderstood the prophecies of Jesus Christ's 1st coming, that led to their rejection of HIM, resulting in the rejection of the whole nation, by God.
 But then, again, that also was prophecied.

Satan intends that the misunderstanding of Christ's 2nd coming, also be misunderstood, so many people in the Christian world, will be lost.

Offline fanuvmxpx

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Re: FEAR ...Motivates the Secret Rapture Theory
« Reply #18 on: December 24, 2008, 11:11:05 AM »
Satan intends that the misunderstanding of Christ's 2nd coming, also be misunderstood, so many people in the Christian world, will be lost.

But why would you be 'less inclined' to be a Christian if the 2nd coming already happened, or wasn't happening for a long time?

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Re: FEAR ...Motivates the Secret Rapture Theory
« Reply #18 on: December 24, 2008, 11:11:05 AM »

Offline Jon-Marc

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Re: FEAR ...Motivates the Secret Rapture Theory
« Reply #19 on: December 25, 2008, 09:57:10 AM »
Seeing that millions of people (including EVERY baby, every child not old enough to understand and be held accountable, and every person born mentally incapable of being held responsible will be taken, I don't think the "Rapture" will be very secret. Then there are all the graves of born again believers that will suddenly be empty. There will be people disappearing from cars, trains, buses, airplanes, hospitals, homes, workplaces, stores, EVERYWHERE! No, it won't be a secret, and there will be panic.

The anti-Christ will step in with an answer to what happened--maybe say it was an alien invasion that abducted them.  After all, many people believe in space aliens. Of course, there will be those who have heard about the coming of Jesus and didn't believe it who will remember and believe. Many will probably throng the churches searching for answers and find none, because only false preachers will be left behind. The churches where they could have gotten the truth earlier will be filled with lost people looking for answers, but the only answer is that Jesus has returned. They have been left behind due to their unbelief.

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Re: FEAR ...Motivates the Secret Rapture Theory
« Reply #19 on: December 25, 2008, 09:57:10 AM »



Offline 3AM

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Re: FEAR ...Motivates the Secret Rapture Theory
« Reply #20 on: December 28, 2008, 12:29:52 PM »
Satan intends that the misunderstanding of Christ's 2nd coming, also be misunderstood, so many people in the Christian world, will be lost.
Quote
But why would you be 'less inclined' to be a Christian if the 2nd coming already happened, or wasn't happening for a long time?
Most people want to indulge their sinful natures, and the Rapture theory provides them time and an excuse, for doing so.

In other words, they put off the preparation needed to survive the Great Tribulation period.

Offline rkhufu7

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Re: FEAR ...Motivates the Secret Rapture Theory
« Reply #21 on: December 28, 2008, 06:48:07 PM »
His desciples were Jews, so how did they mis-interpret?  Some got it and other didn't!  Those that diligently sought salvation knew who he was.

Offline Mr Disciple 777

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Re: FEAR ...Motivates the Secret Rapture Theory
« Reply #22 on: December 31, 2008, 03:06:38 PM »
I agree completely with k-pappy.  This is not a salvation issue!  Agreed that heresies will not lead to salvation, but by your logic, if your view of God is not completely perfect, you are going to hell! 

Now in regards to your OP, that is absolutely pure speculation.  Your comment supposes that you know everyone that believes in a pre-trib rapture, and not only that, but know how they feel deep down.  Even if they don't know it themselves!  You are basically saying that we're all cowards and that we reject the Bible to make ourselves feel better. 

And by the way...I think Satan's plan of attack has more to do with getting Christians to bicker with each other on non essentials, and less to do with whether we believe in pre-trib rapture or not.

-Kyle

Offline 3AM

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Re: FEAR ...Motivates the Secret Rapture Theory
« Reply #23 on: January 02, 2009, 10:25:26 AM »
I agree completely with k-pappy.  This is not a salvation issue! 
Correct, Salvation has to with getting sin, out of the life of daily living, while still here on earth.

 
Quote
Agreed that heresies will not lead to salvation, but by your logic, if your view of God is not completely perfect, you are going to hell! 
God has revealved everything neccessary for a person to know about God, at this present time.

That is why Bible Study, is ABSOLUTELY Neccessary !!!!!

It is the ONLY way a person of today, is going to make it into heaven.

 James  1:21   Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls. 

  1:22   But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves. 

Quote


And by the way...I think Satan's plan of attack has more to do with getting Christians to bicker with each other on non essentials, and less to do with whether we believe in pre-trib rapture or not.

-Kyle
The Bible tells us what satan's game plan is......

 Revelation  12:17   And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ. 

That has been his game plan, from Adam & Eve, to today's Christians.

Offline Jaime

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Re: FEAR ...Motivates the Secret Rapture Theory
« Reply #24 on: January 02, 2009, 09:06:34 PM »
Who is "taken" first in the Parable of the Wheat and Tares in Mathew 13?

Offline 3AM

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Re: FEAR ...Motivates the Secret Rapture Theory
« Reply #25 on: January 03, 2009, 10:00:16 AM »
Who is "taken" first in the Parable of the Wheat and Tares in Mathew 13?
Well, it is best to compare verse based on the same subject matter as ..... when a person compares other Bibler verses, with that one, such as.......

 24:37   But as the days of Noe [were], so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. 

  24:38   For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, 

  24:39   And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.  (Matthew)

Then a person comes to a better understand of the message, meant to be brought out.

Offline Jaime

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Re: FEAR ...Motivates the Secret Rapture Theory
« Reply #26 on: January 03, 2009, 08:02:24 PM »
Who is "taken" first in the Parable of the Wheat and Tares in Mathew 13?
Well, it is best to compare verse based on the same subject matter as ..... when a person compares other Bibler verses, with that one, such as.......

 24:37   But as the days of Noe [were], so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. 

  24:38   For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, 

  24:39   And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.  (Matthew)

Then a person comes to a better understand of the message, meant to be brought out.

Are you insinuating that the order of the harvest (as stipulated in the Parable of the Wheat and Tares) is not pertinent to this Rapture discussion? Especially in light of the following verses in Mathew 24:

Mat 24:40  Then shall two men be in the field; one is taken, and one is left:
Mat 24:41  two women shall be grinding at the mill; one is taken, and one is left.

According to the Parable of the Wheat and Tares, which is taken first in the harvest or rapture?

Offline 3AM

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Re: FEAR ...Motivates the Secret Rapture Theory
« Reply #27 on: January 04, 2009, 09:20:41 AM »
According to the Parable of the Wheat and Tares, which is taken first in the harvest or rapture?
That depends on a person's point of view.

The 'harvest' is a one time event.
 It is a time where the wheat is saved....and the tares are discarded.

In 2 Thess....the Bible shows that the gathering of God's people happens at the same time the wicked are destroyed.

 2:1   Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and [by] our gathering together unto him, 

  2:2   That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. 
  2:3   Let no man deceive you by any means: for [that day shall not come], except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; 
  2:4   Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God. 
  2:5   Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things? 
  2:6   And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time. 
  2:7   For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth [will let], until he be taken out of the way. 
  2:8   And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: 
 

Matthew  24:37   But as the days of Noe [were], so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. 

  24:38   For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, 
  24:39   And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Offline LOVE2DAY

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Re: FEAR ...Motivates the Secret Rapture Theory
« Reply #28 on: January 17, 2009, 10:59:35 AM »
Many christian's use the word rapture to explain the Christ coming back..

Which is true, Christ will come back after the Great Tribulation..



 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.

5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.

7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.

8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.

9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.
10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.

11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.

12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.

13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)

16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:

 18  let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.

 19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!

20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:

21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

 22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.

24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

25 Behold, I have told you before.

 26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.

27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
 29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: 30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
 

Matt 24:4-31 (KJV)

Offline 3AM

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Re: FEAR ...Motivates the Secret Rapture Theory
« Reply #29 on: January 18, 2009, 03:54:06 PM »
Many christian's use the word rapture to explain the Christ coming back..

Which is true, Christ will come back after the Great Tribulation..



And that bears repeating.....Jesus comes back...AFTER....the Great Tribulation.