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Author Topic: Calvinism or Arminianism  (Read 6179 times)
JERRY C
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« Reply #45 on: December 21, 2007, 09:30:35 AM »
Dave,

a subject as deep as the eternal chasm is not to be resolved on a webpage tit-for-tat, nor likely in the halls of theologika, but --

1.  Rom.9:22 "what IF God..." -- that is as easy as asking who the "us" is in 2Pet.3:9 Cool

2.  it still says "God is NOT willing that Any should perish..." (any of the elect?!?) Doh!

3.  keeping it simple for the un-evolved, the SS favorite says "God so loved the [whole?] world, that he gave his Son, that whoever [of the "elect"?!] believes shall not perish ...

people have been batting this back and forth since Adam hit the scene.

but, methinks your image of God is closer to "Joe versus the Volcano" than Jesus Christ.

I know it is more evolved and deep to run with John C., but, in the end, I hear JC imploring, "Father, forgive them [all?!!] for they know not what they do"
« Last Edit: December 21, 2007, 12:51:54 PM by JERRY C » Logged


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JERRY C
charlie
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« Reply #46 on: December 21, 2007, 11:48:35 AM »
Quote from: da525382 on December 21, 2007, 08:21:30 AM
Quote from: charlie on December 21, 2007, 06:30:02 AM
Quote from: da525382 on December 20, 2007, 03:27:27 PM
You are very much entitled to believe the grace of God manifests in a synergystic cooperation with man.  Much of Christiandom does, much of it however, does not.
Well MOST of Christendom is Roman Catholic, so where does that leave us? I one time had a fellow try to shut me down in a religious discussion on homosexuality by claiming that since there are sincere and faithful Christians who believe in full inclusion, that it must therefore not be an outrageous idea.

Your premise is illogical, nor do I even understand your question about where it "leaves" us.  That sect of Christiandom had about a 10 century head-start with a foundational primacy not in scripture alone, and an incredible purge machine to snuff out any opposition and maintain illiteracy in the laity. 

And I am really scratching my head about your discussion of homosexuality in the context of synergism and monergism.  I'm sorry, but if you equate God's grace with "full inclusion" as you seem to have defined it, you certainly have gone off on your own trail, that does not make God a synergistic God of salvation, in my opinion, from scripture, if that's what you're trying to say with this obtuse statement of yours.

You are scratching your head because you didn't understand my response.
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« Reply #46 on: December 21, 2007, 11:48:35 AM »
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da525382
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« Reply #47 on: December 21, 2007, 12:08:48 PM »
Quote from: charlie on December 21, 2007, 11:48:35 AM
Quote from: da525382 on December 21, 2007, 08:21:30 AM
Quote from: charlie on December 21, 2007, 06:30:02 AM
Quote from: da525382 on December 20, 2007, 03:27:27 PM
You are very much entitled to believe the grace of God manifests in a synergystic cooperation with man.  Much of Christiandom does, much of it however, does not.
Well MOST of Christendom is Roman Catholic, so where does that leave us? I one time had a fellow try to shut me down in a religious discussion on homosexuality by claiming that since there are sincere and faithful Christians who believe in full inclusion, that it must therefore not be an outrageous idea.

Your premise is illogical, nor do I even understand your question about where it "leaves" us.  That sect of Christiandom had about a 10 century head-start with a foundational primacy not in scripture alone, and an incredible purge machine to snuff out any opposition and maintain illiteracy in the laity. 

And I am really scratching my head about your discussion of homosexuality in the context of synergism and monergism.  I'm sorry, but if you equate God's grace with "full inclusion" as you seem to have defined it, you certainly have gone off on your own trail, that does not make God a synergistic God of salvation, in my opinion, from scripture, if that's what you're trying to say with this obtuse statement of yours.

You are scratching your head because you didn't understand my response.

Nor did you mine, evidently.
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zoonance
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« Reply #48 on: December 21, 2007, 01:27:02 PM »
Quote from: spurly on December 20, 2007, 09:10:17 PM
Quote from: zoonance on December 20, 2007, 06:04:02 PM
Doctrine does not matter.

Zoonance, that surprises me coming from you. 



Sorry my fascitiousness (humor?) got lost.  It matters very much.  One of the final words of Jesus was to teach them everything he had taught them.    Of course, I was trying to make a point - based on other thread subjects and "conclusions".    It matters enough to divide (I assume evidence as being the opposite of unity?)  Historically, It mattered enough to die for. 
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Wycliffes_Shillelagh
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« Reply #49 on: December 21, 2007, 03:02:12 PM »
Quote from: k-pappy on December 20, 2007, 11:41:44 PM
For purposes of this thread, I put together a comparison of Calvinism, Arminianism and Scripture:

http://www.uebelecentral.com/arcalbible.htm

I hope you find it useful.

In Christ,
KP
Very nice, and thanks.

Also, somehow FCURF isn't as good an acronym as TULIP.
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« Reply #50 on: December 21, 2007, 03:54:30 PM »
Quote from: Jaime on December 19, 2007, 08:58:53 AM
Probably neither.

God is sovereign, but man has free will.

aka Compatibilism.
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« Reply #50 on: December 21, 2007, 03:54:30 PM »
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BondServant
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« Reply #51 on: December 21, 2007, 04:29:20 PM »
Quote from: Wycliffes_Shillelagh on December 21, 2007, 03:02:12 PM
Quote from: k-pappy on December 20, 2007, 11:41:44 PM
For purposes of this thread, I put together a comparison of Calvinism, Arminianism and Scripture:

http://www.uebelecentral.com/arcalbible.htm

I hope you find it useful.

In Christ,
KP
Very nice, and thanks.

Also, somehow FCURF isn't as good an acronym as TULIP.

 Rolling on floor laughing
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Dave...
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« Reply #52 on: December 21, 2007, 08:01:57 PM »
K-pappy

Here's a chart from the same link that I provided earlier.

http://www.corkfpc.com/balanced.html

Jerry.

This link will answer your questions if you are interested.
http://www.corkfpc.com/calvinismindex.html

Dave
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"If God does not save men by truth, he certainly will not save them by lies. And if the old gospel is not competent to work a revival, then we will do without the revival." (CHS)
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« Reply #53 on: December 21, 2007, 08:27:27 PM »
Dave, thanks for the link.  To me, the balance does not lie in calvinism, but somewhere in the middle of calivinism and arminianism.

Simply put, both have valid points to an extent, but I believe both go to an extreme to an extent as well.

I have been called "calvinist" by arminians and "arminian" by calvinists, most likely becuase I am right in the middel.  A 2.5 point calivinist if you will  Smile

In Christ,
KP
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Dave...
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« Reply #54 on: January 01, 2008, 05:50:30 AM »
1. Classic Arminianism

• One must persevere in faith to be saved.
• True believers can lose their faith.
• Those dying without faith in Christ are condemned.

“The believer who loses his faith is damned.”     

2. Antinomianism

• One need not persevere in faith to be saved.
• True believers can lose their faith.
• Those who lose their faith are saved, since they once believed.

“The believer who loses his faith is saved.”   

3. Classic Calvinism

• One must persevere in faith to be saved.
• True believers cannot lose their faith, since it’s God’s gift.
• Those dying without faith in Christ are condemned.
• Those who “lose” their faith never had it to begin with.
• God will preserve true believers and they will be saved. 

 “The ‘believer’ who loses his faith never really had it—or at least it wasn’t in Jesus.”
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"If God does not save men by truth, he certainly will not save them by lies. And if the old gospel is not competent to work a revival, then we will do without the revival." (CHS)
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« Reply #54 on: January 01, 2008, 05:50:30 AM »
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« Reply #55 on: November 10, 2008, 10:39:04 PM »
Quote from: pawnraider on December 19, 2007, 08:55:33 AM
Which is right, Calvinism or Arminianism?  Confused
A couple of years ago, I studied with an ex-Baptist minister.
And after I explained what I believed in, he began to tell me  that I was an Arminian.

At the time I didn't know what that meant, and I still to this day, am not sure 100% what that term means.
 Oh Well......
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1 Peter  4:17   For the time [is come] that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if [it] first [begin] at us, what shall the end [be] of them that obey not the gospel of God ? 

God's 'Investigative' Judgment Day
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« Reply #56 on: November 19, 2008, 02:46:11 PM »
My chief problems with orthodox, classical Calvinism is that it makes God the author of sin, and takes away man's free will.

I'm currently reading an excellent book on Arminianism entitled Arminian Theology: Myths and Realities by Dr. Roger E. Olson.

Pax.
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"Brethren, for the sake of our souls, let us never get too big to restudy our position." - Bro. KC Moser (1893-1976)

"I propose to finish my course without ever, even for one monent, engaging in partisan strife with anybody about anything." - Elder T. B. Larimore (1843-1929)

"Let the unity of Christians be our polar star." - Elder Barton Warren Stone (1772-1844)

"It is wrong to make anything a condition of fellowship which is not essential to salvation. We draw the line here. That which will damn a soul and separate us in the next world should divide us in this; nothing else should. " - FD Srygley (1856-1900)
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« Reply #57 on: November 29, 2008, 12:06:58 PM »
Quote from: pawnraider on December 19, 2007, 08:55:33 AM
Which is right, Calvinism or Arminianism?  Confused
Calvinism...teaches a person to ignore some of God's word.

Arminianism......teaches that ALL God's word, is to be obeyed.
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1 Peter  4:17   For the time [is come] that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if [it] first [begin] at us, what shall the end [be] of them that obey not the gospel of God ? 

God's 'Investigative' Judgment Day
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« Reply #57 on: November 29, 2008, 12:06:58 PM »
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caldwelljr11
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« Reply #58 on: January 03, 2010, 04:05:59 PM »
Ok, I’m going to ask it here – seems several have studied Arminus.  I have not read much from him (yet), but from what I have read he seem to indicate that men did not have the ability to accept Christ to salvation but through grace – the only ability men has is to reject that grace.  Am I correct in his view?
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