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Author Topic: Can man come to Jesus in and of their own freewill?  (Read 27461 times)
ananias laos
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« Reply #60 on: June 01, 2008, 03:39:05 PM »
Quote from: OkiMar on May 30, 2008, 08:40:08 PM
Absolutely man comes to God of his own free will. 

God's word reveals Christ to us today just as his words and deeds revealed Him to the world in the 1st century.

Exactly! Jesus teaches us all personally just as He taught others personally, because He teaches us every time we read His words - and His apostles teach us personally every time we read their words.

Ananias Laos.
 
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« Reply #61 on: June 01, 2008, 03:44:29 PM »
Quote from: ananias laos on June 01, 2008, 03:31:55 PM
"Then faith is of hearing, and hearing by the Word of God."

And the words of Jesus are Spirit and Life, and the works of the Father (Joh.6: 63; Joh.14: 10).

Personally, I believe that when we believe Jesus, when we believe God, the fact that we CAN believe, is all of grace - if we could come to Jesus of our own freewill, then it would no longer be of grace - it is the Holy Spirit of God who convicts us of our sin and depravity, draws us to Jesus, and gives us faith - I believe that this is why Jesus said that no one could come to Jesus unless the Father calls him.

Ananias Laos

You are correct when you say "when we believe Jesus, when we believe God, the fact that we CAN believe, is all of grace", but there is nothing about free will that precludes grace.  It is, as you say,  the Holy Spirit who convicts us of sin for we are indeed depraved.  He draws us to Jesus.  But faith is not something that is given.  It is something that we do.  Just as you said, we believe.  We believe the gospel of Jesus Christ.  That consitutes faith.  That comes from hearing the preaching of the gospel.  
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« Reply #61 on: June 01, 2008, 03:44:29 PM »
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da525382
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« Reply #62 on: June 01, 2008, 03:44:52 PM »
Quote from: ananias laos on June 01, 2008, 03:31:55 PM
"Then faith is of hearing, and hearing by the Word of God."

And the words of Jesus are Spirit and Life, and the works of the Father (Joh.6: 63; Joh.14: 10).

Personally, I believe that when we believe Jesus, when we believe God, the fact that we CAN believe, is all of grace - if we could come to Jesus of our own freewill, then it would no longer be of grace - it is the Holy Spirit of God who convicts us of our sin and depravity, draws us to Jesus, and gives us faith - I believe that this is why Jesus said that no one could come to Jesus unless the Father calls him.

Ananias Laos

Manna to you, Ananias, and welcome to the board!............
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Bonnie
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« Reply #63 on: June 01, 2008, 05:27:25 PM »
Quote from: Circuitridingpreacher on June 01, 2008, 03:18:26 PM
Quote from: Bonnie on June 01, 2008, 11:45:37 AM
Quote from: Circuitridingpreacher on June 01, 2008, 10:16:11 AM
There are some simple proofs that bring balance to both sides of this issue.

1) For those who say their will is free, then prove it by exercising this free will and never sin again. This simply can't be done.

2) For those who say man's will is not free, do not charge God with the responsibility of someone's damnation. It is man who is responsible for his own damnation.


This is a reasonably balanced article on the topic.

http://www.themoorings.org/doctrine/issues/Calvinism/daisy.html



CRP

I've been wrestling with some of these questions for quite awhile now and this article is very good.  Just when I think "I've got it" another ? comes to mind. Thanks for posting it. Seems I've got a lot of studying and praying to do.  If only we could add "foreknowledge" to it...
God Bless

That is the problem with us as fallible men, sometimes we see one side of an issue better than the other. There are some here who can more clearly see the doctrines of grace (IE sovereignty of God) and there are some who can more clearly see the doctrines of responsibility (IE free will).

There are godly men on both sides of this neverending discussion that will be settled in heaven, and I look forward to meeting both John Calvin and John Wesley there. What do you suppose they are talking about now?


Perhaps if everyone here would look at two men who crossed this great divide at the funeral of one of them, they would see the other side a little more clearly.

John Wesley preaching the funeral sermon for George Whitefield.
http://www.piney.com/WhitefSer54Funeral.html

I consider it the definition of Christian charity in this matter.

CRP

No greater respect and appreciation have I seen between the best of friends. It says a lot about Wesley's character and admiration for his friend. If everyone could get along as well we might see a bit of heaven on earth.

I hope I come to a decision sooner.  Something will surely click inside this brain of mine before I die.  Oh, my... At least I'm settled on the fundamentals of salvation.
Blessings ~
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Bonnie
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« Reply #64 on: June 01, 2008, 05:31:03 PM »
Quote from: Circuitridingpreacher on May 31, 2008, 09:25:47 AM
Sure he can, once his will has been made free. Until then, he doesn't even want to come to Christ.

If man can come to Christ apart from God, why pray for God to change hearts and save souls? And the corollary statement, if man is not responsible to seek out his salvation, why preach to them? God is 100% sovereign in the salvation of man, and man is 100% responsible for his own condition. There is an apparent set of overlapping responsibilities that may not be fully grasped this side of eternity, yet it exists.

If we take an example of the person of Christ it becomes clearer:

We know that the Bible teaches that Christ is fully God and fully man. If I were to overemphasize either of these attributes at the expense of the other, I would have had to have denied Christ at some point. To limit one's theology to Calvinism's TULIP might be akin to denying the humanity of Christ, while holding to Arminianism could be akin to denying the divinity of Christ. How the two natures of Christ are merged together is a mystery to us, yet we must stand on them as foundational truths. Likewise, how the sovereignty of God and the responsibility of man are merged is a mystery to us, yet we must stand on them as foundational truths as well. To attempt to delineate them perfectly, naturally must cause man to reject (or explain away) some portion of God's word.


CRP


Very true!
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« Reply #65 on: June 01, 2008, 05:32:00 PM »
Quote from: rezar on May 31, 2008, 10:57:00 AM
Yes, I think they can. But it may not really be their own will that was or is at work.
For example, a person may be totally dismayed with their life, nothing has helped to solve their problems. So they heard somewhere that they're lost & maybe the deity & grace of Christ can help them. So they come to the Lord out of need.
It is in that trial period that shall eventually be revealed whether the Lord had them in mind all along. Like the Parable of the Sower-it will become evident in due time whether or not they were the Lord's based on their continuance in the Faith or not.

So, I'm going to say that we humans don't know exactly who God planned for the kingdom, what point in their life or any of those things. That's why we keep bringing on the good news bc we believe in His plan of salvation.
The rest only God knows- & sometimes we get to see that the particular person WAS or WASN'T meant to be one of God's children- at least at or not at that time in that person's life.

My 2 shiny pennies worth!

Great post!
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« Reply #65 on: June 01, 2008, 05:32:00 PM »
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Serenity432001
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« Reply #66 on: June 01, 2008, 05:55:52 PM »
I've not read the whole thread so this might have been covered.  But, here's my struggle as I wrestle with this issue.  You have the scripture that is quoted in the op about no man comes to the father except through Jesus and unles the Father draws them and you also have the scripture that He doesn't want ANY to perish but hopes ALL come to repentence so does God draw all men or only a select few? 
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Bonnie
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« Reply #67 on: June 01, 2008, 05:58:41 PM »
Quote from: Jimmy on June 01, 2008, 03:44:29 PM
Quote from: ananias laos on June 01, 2008, 03:31:55 PM
"Then faith is of hearing, and hearing by the Word of God."

And the words of Jesus are Spirit and Life, and the works of the Father (Joh.6: 63; Joh.14: 10).

Personally, I believe that when we believe Jesus, when we believe God, the fact that we CAN believe, is all of grace - if we could come to Jesus of our own freewill, then it would no longer be of grace - it is the Holy Spirit of God who convicts us of our sin and depravity, draws us to Jesus, and gives us faith - I believe that this is why Jesus said that no one could come to Jesus unless the Father calls him.

Ananias Laos

You are correct when you say "when we believe Jesus, when we believe God, the fact that we CAN believe, is all of grace", but there is nothing about free will that precludes grace.  It is, as you say,  the Holy Spirit who convicts us of sin for we are indeed depraved.  He draws us to Jesus.  But faith is not something that is given.  It is something that we do.  Just as you said, we believe.  We believe the gospel of Jesus Christ.  That consitutes faith.  That comes from hearing the preaching of the gospel.  

Why do some believe and some do not?
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Terrence
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« Reply #68 on: June 01, 2008, 06:05:27 PM »
Quote from: Dave... on June 01, 2008, 12:42:47 PM
Quote from: Terrence on June 01, 2008, 02:55:21 AM
Robert Pate

If it is not by freewill then how is?

According to the counsel of God's own will (Eph 1:11). As it is written..."it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy" (Romans 9:16). And in another place..."men are not born again after the will of man but of God." Salvation has always been of the Lord (Jonah 2:9).

Do you mean that God selects some to be saved by calling them out and the rest are doomed to go to Hell because he didn't call them?

Suppose you and I were in jail for similar crimes. I robed a bank and you a local store. Now suppose a pardoned went out by the warden of the prison: Terrence, you are free to go. Who do I have to thank for my freedom? Did I do anything to merit it? Can I boast and that I was better than you, or that my crimes were any less than yours? Of course not! Now, who do you have to blame for remaining in prison - you or the warden? Brother, if you are honest, you would have to blame yourself and no one else. Likewise, no saved man can ever boast that they did anything to merit salvation, "for while we were yet dead in our sins...God made us alive...By grace you have been saved" (Eph 2:4-5). Furthermore, no unsaved man may blame God for not being saved. For while a Savior wept for a city to come, they would not come that he may heal them from their sins (Matthew 23:37). In fact, God himself looked down from heaven to see who would seek Him, and yet it is written..."There is NONE who seeks God" (Psa 14:2-3, Romans 3:11, etc). If it was not for God's electing grace, NONE would be saved!

That is some really sick theology. 

This is because you do not understand it. And I cannot be angry at you for that. I pray that God may be pleased to show all His people the truth about His grace, namely how really amazing it is, and why we sing about it. "I once was blind but now see."

God's Spirit is in the world and is calling all to come to Christ.  Not just some, and if is some why are they any better than the rest?

I've already explained why Christians are no better than any other sinner and that it is only by grace that we are who we are. Now here is a question for you: Why are you better than an unbeliever? "Who made you to differ, and what do you have that you didn't receive" (1 Cor 4:7)?  Why do you believe and they don't? If all men are equally born in sin, how is it that you were able to free yourself and have enough faith to come to Jesus? How did you get the upper hand on most of mankind?

Nice post Terrence. Manna for this one.

It is not from lack of effort on your part that some here refuse to see or understand these things which God's Word teaches us.

Dave

I know brother. And it is because of that truth, that I am able to have patients with my brothers who do not understand the inner workings of God's great salvation. Perhaps God may be pleased to grant them the knowledge?

I sure hope so!

Blessings in the Lamb!
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Bonnie
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« Reply #69 on: June 01, 2008, 07:09:28 PM »
Quote from: Terrence on June 01, 2008, 06:05:27 PM
Quote from: Dave... on June 01, 2008, 12:42:47 PM
Quote from: Terrence on June 01, 2008, 02:55:21 AM
Robert Pate

If it is not by freewill then how is?

According to the counsel of God's own will (Eph 1:11). As it is written..."it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy" (Romans 9:16). And in another place..."men are not born again after the will of man but of God." Salvation has always been of the Lord (Jonah 2:9).

Do you mean that God selects some to be saved by calling them out and the rest are doomed to go to Hell because he didn't call them?

Suppose you and I were in jail for similar crimes. I robed a bank and you a local store. Now suppose a pardoned went out by the warden of the prison: Terrence, you are free to go. Who do I have to thank for my freedom? Did I do anything to merit it? Can I boast and that I was better than you, or that my crimes were any less than yours? Of course not! Now, who do you have to blame for remaining in prison - you or the warden? Brother, if you are honest, you would have to blame yourself and no one else. Likewise, no saved man can ever boast that they did anything to merit salvation, "for while we were yet dead in our sins...God made us alive...By grace you have been saved" (Eph 2:4-5). Furthermore, no unsaved man may blame God for not being saved. For while a Savior wept for a city to come, they would not come that he may heal them from their sins (Matthew 23:37). In fact, God himself looked down from heaven to see who would seek Him, and yet it is written..."There is NONE who seeks God" (Psa 14:2-3, Romans 3:11, etc). If it was not for God's electing grace, NONE would be saved!

That is some really sick theology. 

This is because you do not understand it. And I cannot be angry at you for that. I pray that God may be pleased to show all His people the truth about His grace, namely how really amazing it is, and why we sing about it. "I once was blind but now see."

God's Spirit is in the world and is calling all to come to Christ.  Not just some, and if is some why are they any better than the rest?

I've already explained why Christians are no better than any other sinner and that it is only by grace that we are who we are. Now here is a question for you: Why are you better than an unbeliever? "Who made you to differ, and what do you have that you didn't receive" (1 Cor 4:7)?  Why do you believe and they don't? If all men are equally born in sin, how is it that you were able to free yourself and have enough faith to come to Jesus? How did you get the upper hand on most of mankind?

Nice post Terrence. Manna for this one.

It is not from lack of effort on your part that some here refuse to see or understand these things which God's Word teaches us.

Dave

I know brother. And it is because of that truth, that I am able to have patients with my brothers who do not understand the inner workings of God's great salvation. Perhaps God may be pleased to grant them the knowledge?

I sure hope so!

Blessings in the Lamb!

Terrance, you obviously believe that you are one of the chosen.  What makes you sure of that?
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« Reply #69 on: June 01, 2008, 07:09:28 PM »
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Terrence
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« Reply #70 on: June 01, 2008, 07:20:44 PM »
Quote from: Bonnie on June 01, 2008, 07:09:28 PM
Quote from: Terrence on June 01, 2008, 06:05:27 PM
Quote from: Dave... on June 01, 2008, 12:42:47 PM
Quote from: Terrence on June 01, 2008, 02:55:21 AM
Robert Pate

If it is not by freewill then how is?

According to the counsel of God's own will (Eph 1:11). As it is written..."it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy" (Romans 9:16). And in another place..."men are not born again after the will of man but of God." Salvation has always been of the Lord (Jonah 2:9).

Do you mean that God selects some to be saved by calling them out and the rest are doomed to go to Hell because he didn't call them?

Suppose you and I were in jail for similar crimes. I robed a bank and you a local store. Now suppose a pardoned went out by the warden of the prison: Terrence, you are free to go. Who do I have to thank for my freedom? Did I do anything to merit it? Can I boast and that I was better than you, or that my crimes were any less than yours? Of course not! Now, who do you have to blame for remaining in prison - you or the warden? Brother, if you are honest, you would have to blame yourself and no one else. Likewise, no saved man can ever boast that they did anything to merit salvation, "for while we were yet dead in our sins...God made us alive...By grace you have been saved" (Eph 2:4-5). Furthermore, no unsaved man may blame God for not being saved. For while a Savior wept for a city to come, they would not come that he may heal them from their sins (Matthew 23:37). In fact, God himself looked down from heaven to see who would seek Him, and yet it is written..."There is NONE who seeks God" (Psa 14:2-3, Romans 3:11, etc). If it was not for God's electing grace, NONE would be saved!

That is some really sick theology. 

This is because you do not understand it. And I cannot be angry at you for that. I pray that God may be pleased to show all His people the truth about His grace, namely how really amazing it is, and why we sing about it. "I once was blind but now see."

God's Spirit is in the world and is calling all to come to Christ.  Not just some, and if is some why are they any better than the rest?

I've already explained why Christians are no better than any other sinner and that it is only by grace that we are who we are. Now here is a question for you: Why are you better than an unbeliever? "Who made you to differ, and what do you have that you didn't receive" (1 Cor 4:7)?  Why do you believe and they don't? If all men are equally born in sin, how is it that you were able to free yourself and have enough faith to come to Jesus? How did you get the upper hand on most of mankind?

Nice post Terrence. Manna for this one.

It is not from lack of effort on your part that some here refuse to see or understand these things which God's Word teaches us.

Dave

I know brother. And it is because of that truth, that I am able to have patients with my brothers who do not understand the inner workings of God's great salvation. Perhaps God may be pleased to grant them the knowledge?

I sure hope so!

Blessings in the Lamb!

Terrance, you obviously believe that you are one of the chosen.  What makes you sure of that?

A few things gives me insurance and make me confident of my faith.

1. God's promises: "whoever believes in the Son has eternal life."
2. Inward witness: I can cry from the depths of my heart "Abba! Father!" and I love it!
3. I have in the past, and continue to this day to repent and believe upon Jesus.
4. I have grown in the knowledge of the Lord (both experientially and intellectually).
5. I experience God's graces and answered prayer.
6. I continue to persevere in holiness (though not as good as I'd like).
7. I see my great need for a Savior, and oh do I trust in Jesus!
8. I hate my sins and hate the way I love my Lord. And oh do I car from my heart, "let me love you more!"

There are some more, but thats what comes to mind now.
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« Reply #71 on: June 01, 2008, 07:23:27 PM »
When Did it Become 'Salvation By Faith, Through Grace'?
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"Make all things bitter to me, that so thou alone may appear sweet to my soul." -  Augustine
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« Reply #72 on: June 01, 2008, 07:32:13 PM »
Quote from: Terrence on June 01, 2008, 07:20:44 PM
Quote from: Bonnie on June 01, 2008, 07:09:28 PM
Quote from: Terrence on June 01, 2008, 06:05:27 PM
Quote from: Dave... on June 01, 2008, 12:42:47 PM
Quote from: Terrence on June 01, 2008, 02:55:21 AM
Robert Pate

If it is not by freewill then how is?

According to the counsel of God's own will (Eph 1:11). As it is written..."it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy" (Romans 9:16). And in another place..."men are not born again after the will of man but of God." Salvation has always been of the Lord (Jonah 2:9).

Do you mean that God selects some to be saved by calling them out and the rest are doomed to go to Hell because he didn't call them?

Suppose you and I were in jail for similar crimes. I robed a bank and you a local store. Now suppose a pardoned went out by the warden of the prison: Terrence, you are free to go. Who do I have to thank for my freedom? Did I do anything to merit it? Can I boast and that I was better than you, or that my crimes were any less than yours? Of course not! Now, who do you have to blame for remaining in prison - you or the warden? Brother, if you are honest, you would have to blame yourself and no one else. Likewise, no saved man can ever boast that they did anything to merit salvation, "for while we were yet dead in our sins...God made us alive...By grace you have been saved" (Eph 2:4-5). Furthermore, no unsaved man may blame God for not being saved. For while a Savior wept for a city to come, they would not come that he may heal them from their sins (Matthew 23:37). In fact, God himself looked down from heaven to see who would seek Him, and yet it is written..."There is NONE who seeks God" (Psa 14:2-3, Romans 3:11, etc). If it was not for God's electing grace, NONE would be saved!

That is some really sick theology. 

This is because you do not understand it. And I cannot be angry at you for that. I pray that God may be pleased to show all His people the truth about His grace, namely how really amazing it is, and why we sing about it. "I once was blind but now see."

God's Spirit is in the world and is calling all to come to Christ.  Not just some, and if is some why are they any better than the rest?

I've already explained why Christians are no better than any other sinner and that it is only by grace that we are who we are. Now here is a question for you: Why are you better than an unbeliever? "Who made you to differ, and what do you have that you didn't receive" (1 Cor 4:7)?  Why do you believe and they don't? If all men are equally born in sin, how is it that you were able to free yourself and have enough faith to come to Jesus? How did you get the upper hand on most of mankind?

Nice post Terrence. Manna for this one.

It is not from lack of effort on your part that some here refuse to see or understand these things which God's Word teaches us.

Dave

I know brother. And it is because of that truth, that I am able to have patients with my brothers who do not understand the inner workings of God's great salvation. Perhaps God may be pleased to grant them the knowledge?

I sure hope so!

Blessings in the Lamb!

Terrance, you obviously believe that you are one of the chosen.  What makes you sure of that?

A few things gives me insurance and make me confident of my faith.

1. God's promises: "whoever believes in the Son has eternal life."
2. Inward witness: I can cry from the depths of my heart "Abba! Father!" and I love it!
3. I have in the past, and continue to this day to repent and believe upon Jesus.
4. I have grown in the knowledge of the Lord (both experientially and intellectually).
5. I experience God's graces and answered prayer.
6. I continue to persevere in holiness (though not as good as I'd like).
7. I see my great need for a Savior, and oh do I trust in Jesus!
8. I hate my sins and hate the way I love my Lord. And oh do I car from my heart, "let me love you more!"

There are some more, but thats what comes to mind now.

Fairly good signs, Terrence.  The clincher according to Scripture, are you being conformed to His image?  Are you more like Jesus today than you were yesterday?
Yes, we will hate sin with a vengence.
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« Reply #72 on: June 01, 2008, 07:32:13 PM »
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Terrence
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« Reply #73 on: June 01, 2008, 07:35:36 PM »
Quote from: Bonnie on June 01, 2008, 07:32:13 PM
Quote from: Terrence on June 01, 2008, 07:20:44 PM
Quote from: Bonnie on June 01, 2008, 07:09:28 PM
Quote from: Terrence on June 01, 2008, 06:05:27 PM
Quote from: Dave... on June 01, 2008, 12:42:47 PM
Quote from: Terrence on June 01, 2008, 02:55:21 AM
Robert Pate

If it is not by freewill then how is?

According to the counsel of God's own will (Eph 1:11). As it is written..."it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy" (Romans 9:16). And in another place..."men are not born again after the will of man but of God." Salvation has always been of the Lord (Jonah 2:9).

Do you mean that God selects some to be saved by calling them out and the rest are doomed to go to Hell because he didn't call them?

Suppose you and I were in jail for similar crimes. I robed a bank and you a local store. Now suppose a pardoned went out by the warden of the prison: Terrence, you are free to go. Who do I have to thank for my freedom? Did I do anything to merit it? Can I boast and that I was better than you, or that my crimes were any less than yours? Of course not! Now, who do you have to blame for remaining in prison - you or the warden? Brother, if you are honest, you would have to blame yourself and no one else. Likewise, no saved man can ever boast that they did anything to merit salvation, "for while we were yet dead in our sins...God made us alive...By grace you have been saved" (Eph 2:4-5). Furthermore, no unsaved man may blame God for not being saved. For while a Savior wept for a city to come, they would not come that he may heal them from their sins (Matthew 23:37). In fact, God himself looked down from heaven to see who would seek Him, and yet it is written..."There is NONE who seeks God" (Psa 14:2-3, Romans 3:11, etc). If it was not for God's electing grace, NONE would be saved!

That is some really sick theology. 

This is because you do not understand it. And I cannot be angry at you for that. I pray that God may be pleased to show all His people the truth about His grace, namely how really amazing it is, and why we sing about it. "I once was blind but now see."

God's Spirit is in the world and is calling all to come to Christ.  Not just some, and if is some why are they any better than the rest?

I've already explained why Christians are no better than any other sinner and that it is only by grace that we are who we are. Now here is a question for you: Why are you better than an unbeliever? "Who made you to differ, and what do you have that you didn't receive" (1 Cor 4:7)?  Why do you believe and they don't? If all men are equally born in sin, how is it that you were able to free yourself and have enough faith to come to Jesus? How did you get the upper hand on most of mankind?

Nice post Terrence. Manna for this one.

It is not from lack of effort on your part that some here refuse to see or understand these things which God's Word teaches us.

Dave

I know brother. And it is because of that truth, that I am able to have patients with my brothers who do not understand the inner workings of God's great salvation. Perhaps God may be pleased to grant them the knowledge?

I sure hope so!

Blessings in the Lamb!

Terrance, you obviously believe that you are one of the chosen.  What makes you sure of that?

A few things gives me insurance and make me confident of my faith.

1. God's promises: "whoever believes in the Son has eternal life."
2. Inward witness: I can cry from the depths of my heart "Abba! Father!" and I love it!
3. I have in the past, and continue to this day to repent and believe upon Jesus.
4. I have grown in the knowledge of the Lord (both experientially and intellectually).
5. I experience God's graces and answered prayer.
6. I continue to persevere in holiness (though not as good as I'd like).
7. I see my great need for a Savior, and oh do I trust in Jesus!
8. I hate my sins and hate the way I love my Lord. And oh do I car from my heart, "let me love you more!"

There are some more, but thats what comes to mind now.

Fairly good signs, Terrence.  The clincher according to Scripture, are you being conformed to His image?  Are you more like Jesus today than you were yesterday?
Yes, we will hate sin with a vengence.

Yes, thank you! That is another evidence I have, that I look and think more like him. But I tell you, it is all by his working in me.

Bless God!!!!
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« Reply #74 on: June 01, 2008, 07:43:44 PM »
Quote from: Terrence on June 01, 2008, 07:35:36 PM
Quote from: Bonnie on June 01, 2008, 07:32:13 PM
Quote from: Terrence on June 01, 2008, 07:20:44 PM
Quote from: Bonnie on June 01, 2008, 07:09:28 PM
Quote from: Terrence on June 01, 2008, 06:05:27 PM
Quote from: Dave... on June 01, 2008, 12:42:47 PM
Quote from: Terrence on June 01, 2008, 02:55:21 AM
Robert Pate

If it is not by freewill then how is?

According to the counsel of God's own will (Eph 1:11). As it is written..."it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy" (Romans 9:16). And in another place..."men are not born again after the will of man but of God." Salvation has always been of the Lord (Jonah 2:9).

Do you mean that God selects some to be saved by calling them out and the rest are doomed to go to Hell because he didn't call them?

Suppose you and I were in jail for similar crimes. I robed a bank and you a local store. Now suppose a pardoned went out by the warden of the prison: Terrence, you are free to go. Who do I have to thank for my freedom? Did I do anything to merit it? Can I boast and that I was better than you, or that my crimes were any less than yours? Of course not! Now, who do you have to blame for remaining in prison - you or the warden? Brother, if you are honest, you would have to blame yourself and no one else. Likewise, no saved man can ever boast that they did anything to merit salvation, "for while we were yet dead in our sins...God made us alive...By grace you have been saved" (Eph 2:4-5). Furthermore, no unsaved man may blame God for not being saved. For while a Savior wept for a city to come, they would not come that he may heal them from their sins (Matthew 23:37). In fact, God himself looked down from heaven to see who would seek Him, and yet it is written..."There is NONE who seeks God" (Psa 14:2-3, Romans 3:11, etc). If it was not for God's electing grace, NONE would be saved!

That is some really sick theology. 

This is because you do not understand it. And I cannot be angry at you for that. I pray that God may be pleased to show all His people the truth about His grace, namely how really amazing it is, and why we sing about it. "I once was blind but now see."

God's Spirit is in the world and is calling all to come to Christ.  Not just some, and if is some why are they any better than the rest?

I've already explained why Christians are no better than any other sinner and that it is only by grace that we are who we are. Now here is a question for you: Why are you better than an unbeliever? "Who made you to differ, and what do you have that you didn't receive" (1 Cor 4:7)?  Why do you believe and they don't? If all men are equally born in sin, how is it that you were able to free yourself and have enough faith to come to Jesus? How did you get the upper hand on most of mankind?

Nice post Terrence. Manna for this one.

It is not from lack of effort on your part that some here refuse to see or understand these things which God's Word teaches us.

Dave

I know brother. And it is because of that truth, that I am able to have patients with my brothers who do not understand the inner workings of God's great salvation. Perhaps God may be pleased to grant them the knowledge?

I sure hope so!

Blessings in the Lamb!

Terrance, you obviously believe that you are one of the chosen.  What makes you sure of that?

A few things gives me insurance and make me confident of my faith.

1. God's promises: "whoever believes in the Son has eternal life."
2. Inward witness: I can cry from the depths of my heart "Abba! Father!" and I love it!
3. I have in the past, and continue to this day to repent and believe upon Jesus.
4. I have grown in the knowledge of the Lord (both experientially and intellectually).
5. I experience God's graces and answered prayer.
6. I continue to persevere in holiness (though not as good as I'd like).
7. I see my great need for a Savior, and oh do I trust in Jesus!
8. I hate my sins and hate the way I love my Lord. And oh do I car from my heart, "let me love you more!"

There are some more, but thats what comes to mind now.

Fairly good signs, Terrence.  The clincher according to Scripture, are you being conformed to His image?  Are you more like Jesus today than you were yesterday?
Yes, we will hate sin with a vengence.

Yes, thank you! That is another evidence I have, that I look and think more like him. But I tell you, it is all by his working in me.

Bless God!!!!

God bless you, brother!!!
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Psalms 118:24  "This is the day which the LORD hath made; we will rejoice and be glad in it."
Can man come to Jesus in and of their own freewill? - Pages: 1 2 3 4 [5] 6 7 8 9 10 ... 49 Go Up Print 
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