Free Will: Split from "The Spiritual Sword - October 2007 Issue" thread

[da525382]

Did God believe for Abraham?

FTL

God so loved the world that He gave His Son so all who believe in Him would not perish. The world was Spiritually dead, Jesus came to bring life. God loved the whole world, how come He did not quicken the whole world. You make God a respecter of persons.

God chose Abraham.  He very much "respected" him over all others.  What God the potter choses to do with the pot is what is just and right, regardless of how unfair it may seem to man.

[Jaime]

This is kind of another topic, but I believe a person can reject or even fall away because of the following:

Heb 6:4  For as touching those who were once enlightened and tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Spirit,
Heb 6:5  and tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the age to come,
Heb 6:6  and then fell away, it is impossible to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

Again, your interpretion and mine are the opposite here.  I believe scripturally that this passage does not refer to one who is truly a believer and therefore truly saved.  That would probably take an entire thread to pursue and work through.  Again, what you believe is fine. 

I understand, however if someone was a partaker of the Holy Spirit, they were truly saved in my opinion. I don't know of an instance in the NT where a partaker of the Holy Spirit was not saved. I know that is the explanation of this verse, but it doesn't make sense to me. (surprise surprise!) 

And of course what you believe is fine also. Also the entire NT is a treatise on reminding us not to "shipwreck our faith"

[da525382]

This is kind of another topic, but I believe a person can reject or even fall away because of the following:

Heb 6:4  For as touching those who were once enlightened and tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Spirit,
Heb 6:5  and tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the age to come,
Heb 6:6  and then fell away, it is impossible to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

Again, your interpretion and mine are the opposite here.  I believe scripturally that this passage does not refer to one who is truly a believer and therefore truly saved.  That would probably take an entire thread to pursue and work through.  Again, what you believe is fine. 

I understand, however if someone was a partaker of the Holy Spirit, they were truly saved in my opinion. I don't know of an instance in the NT where a partaker of the Holy Spirit was not saved. I know that is the explanation of this verse, but it doesn't make sense to me. (surprise surprise!) 

And of course what you believe is fine also. Also the entire NT is a treatise on reminding us not to "shipwreck our faith"

Very well said.  We are not to shipwreck our faith, we are to always be alert and vigilant.  That, I hope, every Christian agrees with.  The difference between your view and mine is how you interpret "partaker" in this passage in the context of all of scripture, especially in the Hebrew letter itself.  And as I said, I will be glad to discuss it, probably though in a separate thread from this one.

[Jaime]

This is kind of another topic, but I believe a person can reject or even fall away because of the following:

Heb 6:4  For as touching those who were once enlightened and tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Spirit,
Heb 6:5  and tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the age to come,
Heb 6:6  and then fell away, it is impossible to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

Again, your interpretion and mine are the opposite here.  I believe scripturally that this passage does not refer to one who is truly a believer and therefore truly saved.  That would probably take an entire thread to pursue and work through.  Again, what you believe is fine. 

I understand, however if someone was a partaker of the Holy Spirit, they were truly saved in my opinion. I don't know of an instance in the NT where a partaker of the Holy Spirit was not saved. I know that is the explanation of this verse, but it doesn't make sense to me. (surprise surprise!) 

And of course what you believe is fine also. Also the entire NT is a treatise on reminding us not to "shipwreck our faith"

Very well said.  We are not to shipwreck our faith, we are to always be alert and vigilant.  That, I hope, every Christian agrees with.  The difference between your view and mine is how you interpret "partaker" in this passage.  And as I said, I will be glad to discuss it, probably though in a separate thread from this one.

Don, I am glad we morphed into "cordial" discussers. It is much more fun to have a pleasant conversation, than some I have admittedly contributed to the sourness of in the recent past.

Hope you have a blessed day. I need to get some work done! PDQ

[da525382]

This is kind of another topic, but I believe a person can reject or even fall away because of the following:

Heb 6:4  For as touching those who were once enlightened and tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Spirit,
Heb 6:5  and tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the age to come,
Heb 6:6  and then fell away, it is impossible to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

Again, your interpretion and mine are the opposite here.  I believe scripturally that this passage does not refer to one who is truly a believer and therefore truly saved.  That would probably take an entire thread to pursue and work through.  Again, what you believe is fine. 

I understand, however if someone was a partaker of the Holy Spirit, they were truly saved in my opinion. I don't know of an instance in the NT where a partaker of the Holy Spirit was not saved. I know that is the explanation of this verse, but it doesn't make sense to me. (surprise surprise!) 

And of course what you believe is fine also. Also the entire NT is a treatise on reminding us not to "shipwreck our faith"

Very well said.  We are not to shipwreck our faith, we are to always be alert and vigilant.  That, I hope, every Christian agrees with.  The difference between your view and mine is how you interpret "partaker" in this passage.  And as I said, I will be glad to discuss it, probably though in a separate thread from this one.

Don, I am glad we morphed into "cordial" discussers. It is much more fun to have a pleasant conversation, than some I have admittedly contributed to the sourness of in the recent past.

Hope you have a blessed day. I need to get some work done! PDQ

Thank you.  You have a blessed day as well.  I, however, take the entire blame for my own contentious sourness.  I do not blame anyone else but me.

[zoonance]

Why would I have a high view of myself. I have accomplished nothing for myself. I just grabbed the totally free priceless life jacket that Jesus tossed me, a miserable and drowning man capable of nothing on my own. I agree totally not one of us can achieve perfection. Whether one says belief only or belief and baptism, we have to ACCEPT the free gift. If baptism is a work (I don't believe it is), then how is belief not a work? My job entails a lot of mental activity, and I defy anyone to say that I am not working because it does not require physical exertion. Therefore if my acceptance of the free gift by belief and baptism is salvation by my work, then acceptance by belief only is also salvation by my work. (mental work).

1.Would not reaching for the lifesaver constitute a"work"? Afterall (apart from your action) you would have perished beneath the waves!

2.The Bible does not teach that the natural man is able to believe spiritual truth. Quite the opposite...1 Cor:214-16 The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned. 15 The spiritual person judges all things, but is himself to be judged by no one. 16 “For who has understood the mind of the Lord so as to instruct him?” But we have the mind of Christ.

Hobbit

Yes, Knowing the mind of Christ is for spiritually sensitive people.  Bible study et al outside of Christ is simply a literary excercise just like any other book/anthropological endeavor. However, Repentance and surrender to His lordship is the call to the still natural man when convicted by the gospel.  Perhaps not fully knowing the mind of Christ, but certainly knowing what debt to the Creator means.

[Harold]

Did God believe for Abraham?

FTL

God so loved the world that He gave His Son so all who believe in Him would not perish. The world was Spiritually dead, Jesus came to bring life. God loved the whole world, how come He did not quicken the whole world. You make God a respecter of persons.

God chose Abraham.  He very much "respected" him over all others.  What God the potter choses to do with the pot is what is just and right, regardless of how unfair it may seem to man.

Did God believe for Abraham?

Did Jesus believe for the rich young ruler?

Did God believe for you?

FTL

[da525382]

Did God believe for Abraham?

FTL

God so loved the world that He gave His Son so all who believe in Him would not perish. The world was Spiritually dead, Jesus came to bring life. God loved the whole world, how come He did not quicken the whole world. You make God a respecter of persons.

God chose Abraham.  He very much "respected" him over all others.  What God the potter choses to do with the pot is what is just and right, regardless of how unfair it may seem to man.

Did God believe for Abraham?

Did Jesus believe for the rich young ruler?

Did God believe for you?

FTL

Did God choose Abraham?

Did God choose the rich young ruler?

Did God choose you?