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Author Topic: Just what are the tenets of Arminianism?  (Read 2287 times)
Wycliffes_Shillelagh
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« on: August 11, 2008, 07:25:23 PM »

Calvanism has T.U.L.I.P.  I assume there must be some kind of counter-points? What are they?
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« Reply #1 on: August 11, 2008, 08:08:11 PM »

Calvanism has T.U.L.I.P.  I assume there must be some kind of counter-points? What are they?

The Remonstrants aka The Five Points of Arminianism.

http://www.cresourcei.org/creedremonstrants.html
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« Reply #1 on: August 11, 2008, 08:08:11 PM »

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Wycliffes_Shillelagh
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« Reply #2 on: August 11, 2008, 09:21:00 PM »

Thanks, T-Dawg.

I hope nobody minds my copy-pasting from the linked site into the thread?

Conditional Election

That God, by an eternal and unchangeable purpose in Jesus Christ his Son before the foundation of the world, has determined that out of the fallen, sinful race of men, to save in Christ, for Christ’s sake, and through Christ, those who through the grace of the Holy Spirit shall believe on this his son Jesus, and shall persevere in this faith and obedience of faith, through this grace, even to the end; and, on the other hand, to leave the incorrigible and unbelieving in sin and under wrath and to condemn them as alienated from Christ, according to the word of the Gospel in John 3:36: “He that believes on the Son has everlasting life: and he that does not believe the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abides on him,” and according to other passages of Scripture also.

Unlimited Atonement

That, accordingly, Jesus Christ the Savior of the world, died for all men and for every man, so that he has obtained for them all, by his death on the cross, redemption and the forgiveness of sins; yet that no one actually enjoys this forgiveness of sins except the believer, according to the word of the Gospel of John 3:16, “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believes in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.”  And in the First Epistle of John 2:2: “And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.”

Deprivation

That man does not posses saving grace of himself, nor of the energy of his free will, inasmuch as in his state of apostasy and sin he can of and by himself neither think, will, nor do any thing that is truly good (such as saving Faith eminently is); but that it is necessary that he be born again of God in Christ, through his Holy Spirit, and renewed in understanding, inclination, and will, and all his faculties, in order that he may rightly understand, think, will, and effect what is truly good, according to the Word of Christ, John 15:5, “Without me you can do nothing.”

Resistible Grace

That this grace of God is the beginning, continuance, and accomplishment of all good, even to the extent that the regenerate man himself, without prevenient or assisting, awakening, following and cooperative grace, can neither think, will, nor do good, nor withstand any temptations to evil; so that all good deeds or movements that can be conceived must be ascribed to the grace of God in Christ. But with respect to the mode of the operation of this grace, it is not irresistible, since it is written concerning many, that they have resisted the Holy Spirit (Acts 7, and elsewhere in many places).

Assurance and Security

That those who are incorporated into Christ by true faith, and have thereby become partakers of his life-giving Spirit, as a result have full power to strive against Satan, sin, the world, and their own flesh, and to win the victory; it being well understood that it is ever through the assisting grace of the Holy Spirit; and that Jesus Christ assists them through his Spirit in all temptations, extends to them his hand, and if only they are ready for the conflict, desire his help, and are not inactive, keeps them from falling, so that they, by no deceit or power of Satan, can be misled nor plucked out of Christ’s hands, according to the Word of Christ, John 10:28: “Neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.” But whether they are capable, through negligence, of forsaking again the first beginning of their life in Christ, of again returning to this present evil world, of turning away from the holy doctrine which was delivered them, of losing a good conscience, of neglecting grace, that must be more particularly determined out of the Holy Scripture, before we ourselves can teach it with the full confidence of our mind.

from http://www.cresourcei.org/creedremonstrants.html (sic)
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« Reply #3 on: August 14, 2008, 08:07:02 PM »

Calvanism has T.U.L.I.P.  I assume there must be some kind of counter-points? What are they?

You've got that backwards.  The TULIP points were the five counter-points to those of Arminius.
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« Reply #4 on: November 10, 2008, 10:34:00 PM »

Calvanism has T.U.L.I.P.  I assume there must be some kind of counter-points? What are they?
Well, I do know that Calvanism rejects the keeping of God's commandments, as part of the Salvation process.

Yet, Jesus Christ included God's commandments, as one of the conditions to gaining eternal life.

Matthew   19:16   And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life ?
 
  19:17   And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? [there is] none good but one, [that is], God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
 

When Jesus makes such a statement as that.......I have to belieeve that Jesus Christ must know something, about the process of Salvation....don't you think so ?
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1 Peter  4:17   For the time [is come] that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if [it] first [begin] at us, what shall the end [be] of them that obey not the gospel of God ? 

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« Reply #5 on: November 10, 2008, 10:41:12 PM »

Well, I do know that Calvanism rejects the keeping of God's commandments, as part of the Salvation process.

So does most of Christianity. (cf. Galatians 1:1-6:18)
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Blessed is every one that feareth the LORD; that walketh in his ways.
For thou shalt eat the labour of thine hands: happy shalt thou be, and it shall be well with thee.
Thy wife shall be as a fruitful vine by the sides of thine house: thy children like olive plants round about thy table.
Behold, that thus shall the man be blessed that feareth the LORD.
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« Reply #5 on: November 10, 2008, 10:41:12 PM »

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« Reply #6 on: November 10, 2008, 11:00:43 PM »

Well, I do know that Calvanism rejects the keeping of God's commandments, as part of the Salvation process.

So does most of Christianity. (cf. Galatians 1:1-6:18)
Most interesting that some people will use another Bible verse, to contradict what Jesus said ?

Why don't they realize that they must make both Bible verses harmonize together, insead of being contradictory ?
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1 Peter  4:17   For the time [is come] that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if [it] first [begin] at us, what shall the end [be] of them that obey not the gospel of God ? 

God's 'Investigative' Judgment Day
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« Reply #7 on: November 10, 2008, 11:06:20 PM »

Well, I do know that Calvanism rejects the keeping of God's commandments, as part of the Salvation process.

So does most of Christianity. (cf. Galatians 1:1-6:18)
Most interesting that some people will use another Bible verse, to contradict what Jesus said ?

Why don't they realize that they must make both Bible verses harmonize together, insead of being contradictory ?

The verses do harmonize if you don't amputate them from their context.

Jesus was speaking to a prideful rich ruler that believed himself perfect before God, but when confronted with his greed and covetousness he was unwilling to trade his riches for eternal life. Something we all would do well to consider for ourselves: Is there something in our lives we value more than Jesus, or is there something we would be willing to trade for our soul? (Mar 8:36-37)
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Blessed is every one that feareth the LORD; that walketh in his ways.
For thou shalt eat the labour of thine hands: happy shalt thou be, and it shall be well with thee.
Thy wife shall be as a fruitful vine by the sides of thine house: thy children like olive plants round about thy table.
Behold, that thus shall the man be blessed that feareth the LORD.
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« Reply #8 on: November 11, 2008, 12:15:40 AM »

Well, I do know that Calvanism rejects the keeping of God's commandments, as part of the Salvation process.

So does most of Christianity. (cf. Galatians 1:1-6:18)
Most interesting that some people will use another Bible verse, to contradict what Jesus said ?

Why don't they realize that they must make both Bible verses harmonize together, insead of being contradictory ?

Your view doesn't harmonize with what is explicitly said.

Galatians 5

1It is for freedom that Christ has set us free. Stand firm, then, and do not let yourselves be burdened again by a yoke of slavery.

 2Mark my words! I, Paul, tell you that if you let yourselves be circumcised, Christ will be of no value to you at all. 3Again I declare to every man who lets himself be circumcised that he is obligated to obey the whole law. 4You who are trying to be justified by law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace. 5But by faith we eagerly await through the Spirit the righteousness for which we hope. 6For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision has any value. The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love.
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« Reply #9 on: November 11, 2008, 08:24:40 PM »

Galatians 5

1It is for freedom that Christ has set us free. Stand firm, then, and do not let yourselves be burdened again by a yoke of slavery.
And what do you think that reference about 'slavery' pertains to ?
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1 Peter  4:17   For the time [is come] that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if [it] first [begin] at us, what shall the end [be] of them that obey not the gospel of God ? 

God's 'Investigative' Judgment Day
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« Reply #9 on: November 11, 2008, 08:24:40 PM »

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« Reply #10 on: November 11, 2008, 08:27:01 PM »

Galatians 5

1It is for freedom that Christ has set us free. Stand firm, then, and do not let yourselves be burdened again by a yoke of slavery.
And what do you think that reference about 'slavery' pertains to ?

In the context of the Galatian letter... probably the slavery of being in bondage to the Old Testament Law.
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« Reply #11 on: November 11, 2008, 09:45:29 PM »

In the context of the Galatian letter... probably the slavery of being in bondage to the Old Testament Law.
OK...we are getting closer.

Whcih Law, is considered to be bondage ?

(I suggest  being very careful how you answer that question).

Your answer will reveal how much you know of the Whole Bible.
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1 Peter  4:17   For the time [is come] that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if [it] first [begin] at us, what shall the end [be] of them that obey not the gospel of God ? 

God's 'Investigative' Judgment Day
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« Reply #12 on: November 11, 2008, 10:50:04 PM »

According to Acts 15 the yoke of bondage is the law of Moses.
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Blessed is every one that feareth the LORD; that walketh in his ways.
For thou shalt eat the labour of thine hands: happy shalt thou be, and it shall be well with thee.
Thy wife shall be as a fruitful vine by the sides of thine house: thy children like olive plants round about thy table.
Behold, that thus shall the man be blessed that feareth the LORD.
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« Reply #12 on: November 11, 2008, 10:50:04 PM »

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« Reply #13 on: November 14, 2008, 07:35:31 AM »

According to Acts 15 the yoke of bondage is the law of Moses.
I believe you are correct.
However, there were some Laws Moses wrote, that were not bondage......such as the dietary Laws, ect.
These were for mankind's health and happiness.

Also, maybe you realize that the 10 Commandments (Exodus 20:3-17), are not the Laws of Moses, BUT I wrote, that in case, there are some people who might think that they are.
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1 Peter  4:17   For the time [is come] that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if [it] first [begin] at us, what shall the end [be] of them that obey not the gospel of God ? 

God's 'Investigative' Judgment Day
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« Reply #14 on: November 19, 2008, 02:33:19 PM »

I'm reading an excellent book on Arminianism called Arminian Theology: Myths and Realities, by Dr. Roger E. Olson.

Pax.
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"I propose to finish my course without ever, even for one monent, engaging in partisan strife with anybody about anything." - Elder T. B. Larimore (1843-1929)

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