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James Rondon
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« on: January 01, 2009, 06:19:54 PM »

Will free will be preserved in heaven? If so, how so?
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marc
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« Reply #1 on: January 01, 2009, 08:37:17 PM »

The same way that we have free will to overthrow King Henry VIII, but we don't do it, because he no longer exists.

Free will involves more than choosing whether or not to sin.  In Heaven, sin will not exist, so it will not be possible for us to choose sin.  However, that does not mean that we will be unable to choose from the opportunities that do exist.
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« Reply #1 on: January 01, 2009, 08:37:17 PM »

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James Rondon
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« Reply #2 on: January 01, 2009, 08:44:46 PM »

Why will sin not exist in Heaven? Furthermore, will it not exist in the same way that it did not exist in the Garden, prior to the Fall?
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marc
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« Reply #3 on: January 01, 2009, 08:46:01 PM »

Because Satan won't be around.  That's the difference--Satan is finally dispatched for good.
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James Rondon
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« Reply #4 on: January 01, 2009, 09:01:07 PM »

Without Satan, and without the possibility of sin, would one's will still truly be free? And, if so, was Satan and the possibility of sin actually necessary in the Garden, in order to allow man a choice, and true free will?
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marc
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« Reply #5 on: January 01, 2009, 09:09:43 PM »

1. I think so, as I indicated intitially.  I think Free will has to do with a lot more than sin.  It has to do with our being individuals created in God's image.

2. As to the garden, I don't know.  There's another dynamic involved.  Added to this is the problem that if you believe that Satan was initially an angel who rebelled, that sin was possible before Satan was actually Satan. There's much, particularly about the nature of sin, that I don't understand and that I don't think we really can understand in this life.
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« Reply #5 on: January 01, 2009, 09:09:43 PM »

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marc
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« Reply #6 on: January 08, 2009, 04:56:01 AM »

I wanted to bump this so other people might respond.  My own views are colored by my belief that free will is the natural state, and I realize that not everyone shares this pov.  Any other opinions?
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« Reply #7 on: January 20, 2009, 04:06:18 PM »

I believe the absense of "the desires of the flesh" is the difference.

There's just no hook to hang a temptation on.  In the story of the garden, it was hunger - for food & knowledge - that drove Eve.  Desire for more.

But, if I have no need or desire for food or knowledge, then how will you tempt me?  I already have everything.  There isn't anything else I don't have.  I want for nothing.
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« Reply #8 on: January 20, 2009, 04:21:54 PM »

without freewill heaven sounds a lot like a borg cube. A lifeless drone which continue to exist long after the original entity dies.
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MegaJedi
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« Reply #9 on: February 16, 2009, 06:30:58 PM »

why would we need free will?  Our job up there (not really a job, more a privalege) will be to praise GOD.  So I say Nope, Free Will is a human condition.
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« Reply #9 on: February 16, 2009, 06:30:58 PM »

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CDHealy
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« Reply #10 on: February 17, 2009, 09:53:38 AM »

Free will will be preserved in heaven, because free will is not predicated upon a dialectic of opposed choices, but upon the selection of possible (both real and only apparent) goods.

Adam sinned in the garden not because he was inclined to do evil (since he did not have such inclinations).  He sinned because he chose an apparent good (gaining knowledge of good and evil) over a real good (obedience to God).  His choice was not predicated upon his ability to freely choose to sin or to obey, it was predicated upon the choice of goods (one apparent, one real).  Since his mechanism of choice (the gnomic will) was as yet imperfect, and not yet fully formed in virtue, he chose in error and in ignorance.  If he had exercised faith and had obeyed God, he would not have sinned.  But even so, he chose what he thought (mistakenly) to be a good.  He did not knowingly choose evil.

In the same way, free will will be preserved in heaven because our choice will not be predicated upon opposed dialectical realities (sin/evil versus obedience/good), but, rather, upon an infinity of good things created by God.  We will freely, and rightly, choose among an infinite variety of goods and none of our choices will go awry because all of the goods we perceive will in fact be real.
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Benedict Seraphim
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