Christian Forums and Message Board

Christian Interests => Organized Religion and Religious Movements Discussions => Baptist Forum => Topic started by: e.r.m. on Sun Jun 10, 2018 - 13:58:26

Title: Baptist Church and Homosexuals
Post by: e.r.m. on Sun Jun 10, 2018 - 13:58:26
I have heard from two homosexuals at different times that they were told by a Baptist that they're going to go to hell. I wanted to ask Baptists what the Baptist position is in helping a person, who struggles with homosexuality, to be saved. Just asking your perspective on how the Baptist church addresses this sort of thing. Thank you.
Title: Re: Baptist Church and Homosexuals
Post by: notreligus on Thu Jun 14, 2018 - 15:44:32
This is the position of the Southern Baptist Convention.   This is but one of many Baptist groups.

http://www.religioustolerance.org/hom_sbc.htm
Title: Re: Baptist Church and Homosexuals
Post by: MeMyself on Fri Jun 15, 2018 - 10:46:22
I have heard from two homosexuals at different times that they were told by a Baptist that they're going to go to hell. I wanted to ask Baptists what the Baptist position is in helping a person, who struggles with homosexuality, to be saved. Just asking your perspective on how the Baptist church addresses this sort of thing. Thank you.

I've heard that there are some who believe any who even struggle with homosexuality but do not act upon it are doomed and un-redeemable.

I'm interested in this and hope others weigh in.  Im not a diehard denominalationist, (I think I just made up that word. haha!) but, I don't think a person is condemned for a struggle with sin, no matter its variety.

I don't think there are any that are unable to find God's redemption.



Title: Re: Baptist Church and Homosexuals
Post by: notreligus on Fri Jun 15, 2018 - 11:41:44
I've heard that there are some who believe any who even struggle with homosexuality but do not act upon it are doomed and un-redeemable.

I'm interested in this and hope others weigh in.  Im not a diehard denominalationist, (I think I just made up that word. haha!) but, I don't think a person is condemned for a struggle with sin, no matter its variety.

I don't think there are any that are unable to find God's redemption.

While I know that what you said is true, I am aware of a local SBC congregation who welcome homosexuals to their services for the reason you stated.   I know a man who had practiced homosexuality for years and he just turned his life over to Jesus.  He was fortunate to find a church and a pastor who welcomed him (not the SBC church I mentioned) and counseled him.  Homosexuality can become an addiction and like drugs or drink it's not easy to just walk away from the addiction.   
Title: Re: Baptist Church and Homosexuals
Post by: e.r.m. on Sat Jun 16, 2018 - 22:54:28
notreligus,
           Thank you.
Title: Re: Baptist Church and Homosexuals
Post by: e.r.m. on Sat Jun 16, 2018 - 23:00:11
MeMyself,
              I agree.
Title: Re: Baptist Church and Homosexuals
Post by: Michael2012 on Thu Feb 06, 2020 - 00:38:46
I have heard from two homosexuals at different times that they were told by a Baptist that they're going to go to hell. I wanted to ask Baptists what the Baptist position is in helping a person, who struggles with homosexuality, to be saved. Just asking your perspective on how the Baptist church addresses this sort of thing. Thank you.

Homosexuals are no different from any of us in relation to God. All man have sinned, a such are all sinners. And in as much as everyone needs salvation from the punishment of sin, we are no different from them and they are no different from us.

Some people are born with abnormalities, such as being born blind, deaf, physical infirmities and disabilities, which may include the brain part. And one who exhibits the thinking that he is a female when he is a male, is somehow indicative of an abnormality so to speak. Other people were born without any of these mental abnormality, yet end up believing to be a female than what he naturally is, a male.

We should preach to them the gospel of Jesus Christ. For, like any sinner, Jesus is the only one whereby the sinner is saved. About more 2000 years ago, God sent His Son to be the Savior of man. So today, if one be not in Jesus Christ, homosexual or not, he is going to hell.
Title: Re: Baptist Church and Homosexuals
Post by: RB on Thu Feb 06, 2020 - 04:40:51
Homosexuals are no different from any of us in relation to God. All man have sinned, a such are all sinners. And in as much as everyone needs salvation from the punishment of sin, we are no different from them and they are no different from us.
agreed.
Quote from: Michael on: Today at 00:38:46
Some people are born with abnormalities, such as being born blind, deaf, physical infirmities and disabilities, which may include the brain part. And one who exhibits the thinking that he is a female when he is a male, is somehow indicative of an abnormality so to speak. Other people were born without any of these mental abnormality, yet end up believing to be a female than what he naturally is, a male.
I must respectfully disagree. Now, some males may very well be born with female tendencies, yet this has nothing to do with how they are wired in their brains which I have heard a thousand times over by atheists, men who thought outside of the scriptures for all of their answers and mock those who use ONLY the scriptures for their answer on such things. A male, or female for that purpose, that is born a certain way~then it could mean one or two things~because someone sins in the past, OR, for the glory of God in later showing his great power in the life of those who have such things as you mentioned and in saving the vilest of sinners.
Quote from: JESUS CHRIST
John 10:1-3~"And as Jesus passed by, he saw a man which was blind from his birth. And his disciples asked him, saying, Master, who did sin, this man, or his parents, that he was born blind? Jesus answered, Neither hath this man sinned, nor his parents: but that the works of God should be made manifest in him."
Quote from: Michael on: Today at 00:38:46
We should preach to them the gospel of Jesus Christ
We should LIVE our profession before ALL MEN that we may be able to give an answer to all that asketh the reason of hope that is in us. IF they ask, then yes we should tell them how Christ Jesus came into the world to save SINNERS whom we ALL are chief if we are honest with ourselves. Michael the gospel itself DOES NOT REGENERATE dead sinners who are in LOVE with their sins~now that does not keep us of speaking of the judgment of God upon such sinners, yet that within itself CANNOT get sinners born again. God quickens dead sinners to life, our duty is to use the truth fo the gospel to guide them into the truth ONCE they show an interest in the truth as long as they do not, then we must never cast the precious pearls of truth before dogs, lest they turn and rend YOU and trample upon God's truth, which WILL APPEN every time unless God FIRST quickens such sinners to life.
Quote from: Michael on: Today at 00:38:46
he is going to hell.
Michael if a man dies in his sins, he is going INTO DARKNESS, silence and complete unconsciousness, THERE they're waiting for the resurrection and the FINAL JUDGMENT, and THEN they will be cast into the lake of fire, WHICH IS second death.   There is NO burning hellfire AT THE MOMENT, that doctrine is akin to the doctrine of purgatory of the RCC.  Do you think that when the wicked die they are cast INTO A BURNING fire, ONLY to be resurrected OUT OF THAT to go before the Judge to BE PUNISH? Even sound logic would laugh at that lie, yet there is NOT one scripture that would support such a theory, and theory IT IS.
Title: Re: Baptist Church and Homosexuals
Post by: Michael2012 on Thu Feb 06, 2020 - 06:11:22
Quote from: Michael
Some people are born with abnormalities, such as being born blind, deaf, physical infirmities and disabilities, which may include the brain part. And one who exhibits the thinking that he is a female when he is a male, is somehow indicative of an abnormality so to speak. Other people were born without any of these mental abnormality, yet end up believing to be a female than what he naturally is, a male.
I must respectfully disagree. Now, some males may very well be born with female tendencies, yet this has nothing to do with how they are wired in their brains which I have heard a thousand times over by atheists, men who thought outside of the scriptures for all of their answers and mock those who use ONLY the scriptures for their answer on such things. A male, or female for that purpose, that is born a certain way~then it could mean one or two things~because someone sins in the past, OR, for the glory of God in later showing his great power in the life of those who have such things as you mentioned and in saving the vilest of sinners.
Quote from: JESUS CHRIST
John 10:1-3~"And as Jesus passed by, he saw a man which was blind from his birth. And his disciples asked him, saying, Master, who did sin, this man, or his parents, that he was born blind? Jesus answered, Neither hath this man sinned, nor his parents: but that the works of God should be made manifest in him."

Well, I respect your dissenting opinion there with regards my opinion that one who exhibits the thinking that he is a female when he is a male, is somehow indicative of an abnormality. But that really is not the point there. The point being is what I said in my opening paragraph.

Quote from: RB
Quote from: Michael
We should preach to them the gospel of Jesus Christ
We should LIVE our profession before ALL MEN that we may be able to give an answer to all that asketh the reason of hope that is in us. IF they ask, then yes we should tell them how Christ Jesus came into the world to save SINNERS whom we ALL are chief if we are honest with ourselves. Michael the gospel itself DOES NOT REGENERATE dead sinners who are in LOVE with their sins~now that does not keep us of speaking of the judgment of God upon such sinners, yet that within itself CANNOT get sinners born again. God quickens dead sinners to life, our duty is to use the truth fo the gospel to guide them into the truth ONCE they show an interest in the truth as long as they do not, then we must never cast the precious pearls of truth before dogs, lest they turn and rend YOU and trample upon God's truth, which WILL APPEN every time unless God FIRST quickens such sinners to life.

Of course we all should live our profession.

And yes, the gospel itself DOES NOT REGENERATE dead sinners.

In my opinion, we don't need to wait that they first show an interest in the truth before I tell them about Jesus Christ. Whether they are receptive or not, is not something that would hold me from sharing the gospel when opportunity comes. For, with regards their homosexuality, I don't think I am the one who could do something about that and change that. But I believe that Jesus Christ is the only one who could take care of that.

Quote from: RB
Quote from: Michael
he is going to hell.
Michael if a man dies in his sins, he is going INTO DARKNESS, silence and complete unconsciousness, THERE they're waiting for the resurrection and the FINAL JUDGMENT, and THEN they will be cast into the lake of fire, WHICH IS second death.   There is NO burning hellfire AT THE MOMENT, that doctrine is akin to the doctrine of purgatory of the RCC.  Do you think that when the wicked die they are cast INTO A BURNING fire, ONLY to be resurrected OUT OF THAT to go before the Judge to BE PUNISH? Even sound logic would laugh at that lie, yet there is NOT one scripture that would support such a theory, and theory IT IS.

When I said, he (referring to anyone who is not in Christ) is going to hell, I only meant to point to his final destination, the second death. 
Title: Re: Baptist Church and Homosexuals
Post by: RB on Thu Feb 06, 2020 - 07:15:25
When I said, he (referring to anyone who is not in Christ) is going to hell, I only meant to point to his final destination, the second death.
::preachit:: carry on my brother.


Title: Re: Baptist Church and Homosexuals
Post by: Texas Conservative on Thu Feb 06, 2020 - 08:50:18
If one is supposedly in Christ but continues on wearing homosexuality on their sleeve, and do not see their sin as sin, they have not been born again in the first place and are hell bound.
Title: Re: Baptist Church and Homosexuals
Post by: Michael2012 on Thu Feb 06, 2020 - 08:56:23
If one is supposedly in Christ but continues on wearing homosexuality on their sleeve, and do not see their sin as sin, they have not been born again in the first place and are hell bound.

Are you speaking of a false brethren in Christ? Yes there are such false brethren.
Title: Re: Baptist Church and Homosexuals
Post by: Texas Conservative on Thu Feb 06, 2020 - 08:58:42
Are you speaking of a false brethren in Christ? Yes there are such false brethren.

I am saying you cannot be proudly homosexual and be in Christ.
Title: Re: Baptist Church and Homosexuals
Post by: seekingHiswisdom on Thu Feb 06, 2020 - 11:21:54
If one is supposedly in Christ but continues on wearing homosexuality on their sleeve, and do not see their sin as sin, they have not been born again in the first place and are hell bound.

Correct.

But if their church is corrupted by the twisting of scripture can they be held accountable for even those who read the bible, but have been given false interpretations... whose fault is it? And who has the greater sin?

Title: Re: Baptist Church and Homosexuals
Post by: Texas Conservative on Thu Feb 06, 2020 - 11:48:00
Correct.

But if their church is corrupted by the twisting of scripture can they be held accountable for even those who read the bible, but have been given false interpretations... whose fault is it? And who has the greater sin?

They are not regenerated.  They are part of a church that teaches a false Jesus and is a false church.  It doesn't matter who has the greater sin or not.  Everyone deserves hell.  Only faith in Jesus Christ (the real one) saves.  And if they worship a false Jesus, with a false gospel, they are not saved.  Period.  It's pretty simple stuff.
Title: Re: Baptist Church and Homosexuals
Post by: seekingHiswisdom on Thu Feb 06, 2020 - 14:09:20
They are not regenerated.  They are part of a church that teaches a false Jesus and is a false church.  It doesn't matter who has the greater sin or not.  Everyone deserves hell.  Only faith in Jesus Christ (the real one) saves.  And if they worship a false Jesus, with a false gospel, they are not saved.  Period.  It's pretty simple stuff.

Simple stuff said simply but complex in application.

For the sake of argument let us assume that one belongs to a church who follows a belief of justification such as....


CHAPTER 9
Of Free Will
1. God hath endued the will of man with that natural liberty, that it is neither forced, nor, by any absolute necessity of nature, determined to good, or evil.

2. Man, in his state of innocency, had freedom, and power to will and to do that which was good and well pleasing to God; but yet, mutably, so that he might fall from it.

3. Man, by his fall into a state of sin, hath wholly lost all ability of will to any spiritual good accompanying salvation: so as, a natural man, being altogether averse from that good, and dead in sin, is not able, by his own strength, to convert himself, or to prepare himself thereunto.

4. When God converts a sinner, and translates him into the state of grace, he freeth him from his natural bondage under sin; and, by his grace alone, enables him freely to will and to do that which is spiritually good; yet so, as that by reason of his remaining corruption, he doth not perfectly, nor only, will that which is good, but doth also will that which is evil.

5. The will of man is made perfectly and immutably free to good alone, in the state of glory only.


CHAPTER 10
Of Effectual Calling
1. All those whom God hath predestinated unto life, and those only, he is pleased, in his appointed and accepted time, effectually to call, by his Word and Spirit, out of that state of sin and death, in which they are by nature, to grace and salvation, by Jesus Christ; enlightening their minds spiritually and savingly to understand the things of God, taking away their heart of stone, and giving unto them a heart of flesh; renewing their wills, and, by his almighty power, determining them to that which is good, and effectually drawing them to Jesus Christ: yet so, as they come most freely, being made willing by his grace.

2. This effectual call is of God's free and special grace alone, not from anything at all foreseen in man, who is altogether passive therein, until, being quickened and renewed by the Holy Spirit, he is thereby enabled to answer this call, and to embrace the grace offered and conveyed in it.

3. Elect infants, dying in infancy, are regenerated, and saved by Christ, through the Spirit, who worketh when, and where, and how he pleaseth: so also are all other elect persons who are incapable of being outwardly called by the ministry of the Word.

4. Others, not elected, although they may be called by the ministry of the Word, and may have some common operations of the Spirit, yet they never truly come unto Christ, and therefore cannot be saved: much less can men, not professing the Christian religion, be saved in any other way whatsoever, be they never so diligent to frame their lives according to the light of nature, and the laws of that religion they do profess. And, to assert and maintain that they may, is very pernicious, and to be detested.

CHAPTER 11
Of Justification
1. Those whom God effectually calleth, he also freely justifieth: not by infusing righteousness into them, but by pardoning their sins, and by accounting and accepting their persons as righteous; not for anything wrought in them, or done by them, but for Christ's sake alone; nor by imputing faith itself, the act of believing, or any other evangelical obedience to them, as their righteousness; but by imputing the obedience and satisfaction of Christ unto them, they receiving and resting on him and his righteousness, by faith; which faith they have not of themselves, it is the gift of God.

2. Faith, thus receiving and resting on Christ and his righteousness, is the alone instrument of justification: yet is it not alone in the person justified, but is ever accompanied with all other saving graces, and is no dead faith, but worketh by love.

3. Christ, by his obedience and death, did fully discharge the debt of all those that are thus justified, and did make a proper, real, and full satisfaction to his Father's justice in their behalf. Yet, inasmuch as he was given by the Father for them; and his obedience and satisfaction accepted in their stead; and both, freely, not for anything in them; their justification is only of free grace; that both the exact justice and rich grace of God might be glorified in the justification of sinners.

4. God did, from all eternity, decree to justify all the elect, and Christ did, in the fullness of time, die for their sins, and rise again for their justification: nevertheless, they are not justified, until the Holy Spirit doth, in due time, actually apply Christ unto them.

5. God doth continue to forgive the sins of those that are justified; and, although they can never fall from the state of justification, yet they may, by their sins, fall under God's fatherly displeasure, and not have the light of his countenance restored unto them, until they humble themselves, confess their sins, beg pardon, and renew their faith and repentance.

6. The justification of believers under the old testament was, in all these respects, one and the same with the justification of believers under the new testament.

So said person is comfortable in his or her belief that his or her church follows, AMONG MUCH MORE,
the the beliefs of the written tenets above, and then his or her own church morphs,over many years and decades ,into the acceptance of gays and even will perform gay weddings.

Having always followed what the church taught and preached, and the slow indoctrination of acceptance from the church, would that necessitate the gay being more in sin or is the church at fault for ignoring the truth?

If one had followed the church and then found themselves part of that gay society when grown, and their church seems approving....  I wonder.

Dont get me wrong. It is an abomination and I fault the church for allowing society to drag it down.

But I cannot fault all gays when the church may be at fault for misleading.



Title: Re: Baptist Church and Homosexuals
Post by: Texas Conservative on Thu Feb 06, 2020 - 14:36:23
Simple stuff said simply but complex in application.

For the sake of argument let us assume that one belongs to a church who follows a belief of justification such as....


CHAPTER 9
Of Free Will
1. God hath endued the will of man with that natural liberty, that it is neither forced, nor, by any absolute necessity of nature, determined to good, or evil.

2. Man, in his state of innocency, had freedom, and power to will and to do that which was good and well pleasing to God; but yet, mutably, so that he might fall from it.

3. Man, by his fall into a state of sin, hath wholly lost all ability of will to any spiritual good accompanying salvation: so as, a natural man, being altogether averse from that good, and dead in sin, is not able, by his own strength, to convert himself, or to prepare himself thereunto.

4. When God converts a sinner, and translates him into the state of grace, he freeth him from his natural bondage under sin; and, by his grace alone, enables him freely to will and to do that which is spiritually good; yet so, as that by reason of his remaining corruption, he doth not perfectly, nor only, will that which is good, but doth also will that which is evil.

5. The will of man is made perfectly and immutably free to good alone, in the state of glory only.


CHAPTER 10
Of Effectual Calling
1. All those whom God hath predestinated unto life, and those only, he is pleased, in his appointed and accepted time, effectually to call, by his Word and Spirit, out of that state of sin and death, in which they are by nature, to grace and salvation, by Jesus Christ; enlightening their minds spiritually and savingly to understand the things of God, taking away their heart of stone, and giving unto them a heart of flesh; renewing their wills, and, by his almighty power, determining them to that which is good, and effectually drawing them to Jesus Christ: yet so, as they come most freely, being made willing by his grace.

2. This effectual call is of God's free and special grace alone, not from anything at all foreseen in man, who is altogether passive therein, until, being quickened and renewed by the Holy Spirit, he is thereby enabled to answer this call, and to embrace the grace offered and conveyed in it.

3. Elect infants, dying in infancy, are regenerated, and saved by Christ, through the Spirit, who worketh when, and where, and how he pleaseth: so also are all other elect persons who are incapable of being outwardly called by the ministry of the Word.

4. Others, not elected, although they may be called by the ministry of the Word, and may have some common operations of the Spirit, yet they never truly come unto Christ, and therefore cannot be saved: much less can men, not professing the Christian religion, be saved in any other way whatsoever, be they never so diligent to frame their lives according to the light of nature, and the laws of that religion they do profess. And, to assert and maintain that they may, is very pernicious, and to be detested.

CHAPTER 11
Of Justification
1. Those whom God effectually calleth, he also freely justifieth: not by infusing righteousness into them, but by pardoning their sins, and by accounting and accepting their persons as righteous; not for anything wrought in them, or done by them, but for Christ's sake alone; nor by imputing faith itself, the act of believing, or any other evangelical obedience to them, as their righteousness; but by imputing the obedience and satisfaction of Christ unto them, they receiving and resting on him and his righteousness, by faith; which faith they have not of themselves, it is the gift of God.

2. Faith, thus receiving and resting on Christ and his righteousness, is the alone instrument of justification: yet is it not alone in the person justified, but is ever accompanied with all other saving graces, and is no dead faith, but worketh by love.

3. Christ, by his obedience and death, did fully discharge the debt of all those that are thus justified, and did make a proper, real, and full satisfaction to his Father's justice in their behalf. Yet, inasmuch as he was given by the Father for them; and his obedience and satisfaction accepted in their stead; and both, freely, not for anything in them; their justification is only of free grace; that both the exact justice and rich grace of God might be glorified in the justification of sinners.

4. God did, from all eternity, decree to justify all the elect, and Christ did, in the fullness of time, die for their sins, and rise again for their justification: nevertheless, they are not justified, until the Holy Spirit doth, in due time, actually apply Christ unto them.

5. God doth continue to forgive the sins of those that are justified; and, although they can never fall from the state of justification, yet they may, by their sins, fall under God's fatherly displeasure, and not have the light of his countenance restored unto them, until they humble themselves, confess their sins, beg pardon, and renew their faith and repentance.

6. The justification of believers under the old testament was, in all these respects, one and the same with the justification of believers under the new testament.

So said person is comfortable in his or her belief that his or her church follows, AMONG MUCH MORE,
the the beliefs of the written tenets above, and then his or her own church morphs,over many years and decades ,into the acceptance of gays and even will perform gay weddings.

Having always followed what the church taught and preached, and the slow indoctrination of acceptance from the church, would that necessitate the gay being more in sin or is the church at fault for ignoring the truth?

If one had followed the church and then found themselves part of that gay society when grown, and their church seems approving....  I wonder.

Dont get me wrong. It is an abomination and I fault the church for allowing society to drag it down.

But I cannot fault all gays when the church may be at fault for misleading.

Throw the catechisms away, and the creeds as well.  It is biblically simple.

Say the church is leading these people astray.  It is a false church to begin with.  It teaches a false Jesus and a false gospel.  The people in this church are on the wide path to destruction unless they leave it.  Being gay or not in such a church that teaches a false gospel will lead all to damnation.

You don't need to wonder.

What does scripture say?


1 Corinthians 6

9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,

10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.


It's all right there.  Those that are these things are condemned.  Some WERE fornicators, or idolaters or adulterers or effeminate, or abusers of themselves with mankind.  WERE.  WERE.  WERE.  But....they were washed, sanctified, and justified in the name of Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit.
Title: Re: Baptist Church and Homosexuals
Post by: seekingHiswisdom on Thu Feb 06, 2020 - 15:52:04
Throw the catechisms away, and the creeds as well.  It is biblically simple.

Say the church is leading these people astray.  It is a false church to begin with.  It teaches a false Jesus and a false gospel.  The people in this church are on the wide path to destruction unless they leave it.  Being gay or not in such a church that teaches a false gospel will lead all to damnation.

You don't need to wonder.

What does scripture say?


1 Corinthians 6

9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,

10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.


It's all right there.  Those that are these things are condemned.  Some WERE fornicators, or idolaters or adulterers or effeminate, or abusers of themselves with mankind.  WERE.  WERE.  WERE.  But....they were washed, sanctified, and justified in the name of Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit.

I do not really disagree with you.

What I posted is not my church beliefs but come from the Orthodox Presbyterian Church and stems back to the 1700s.


But they also are going down a slippery slope yet the gays who might be part of that church take it for granted the ministers and those "called by God" have the knowledge to get them into the heavenly kingdom after.

As for me. I belong, but do not attend a church. Reason. My mom wants a minister to say words when she is gone.

No big funeral, just a prayer like they did for my dad when it was only mom and me and a friend in attendance.

I fault the brick and mortar churches as much as life styles cause the brinck and mortar minister are looking the other way.





Title: Re: Baptist Church and Homosexuals
Post by: Michael2012 on Fri Feb 07, 2020 - 05:51:55
Quote from: Texas Conservative
If one is supposedly in Christ but continues on wearing homosexuality on their sleeve, and do not see their sin as sin, they have not been born again in the first place and are hell bound.
Correct.

But if their church is corrupted by the twisting of scripture can they be held accountable for even those who read the bible, but have been given false interpretations... whose fault is it? And who has the greater sin?

With regards homosexuality, I am inclined to believe that no true christian or church can misinterpret this scriptures, nor can deny that engaging in same-gender sexual activity is an abominable sin:

1 Corinthians 6:9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God.

Even in the Old covenant Law, this is what was commanded:

Leviticus 18:22 Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.

I don't know how one can twist these scriptures to make it appear that such acts as not sinful.
Title: Re: Baptist Church and Homosexuals
Post by: Texas Conservative on Fri Feb 07, 2020 - 08:37:59
I do not really disagree with you.

What I posted is not my church beliefs but come from the Orthodox Presbyterian Church and stems back to the 1700s.


But they also are going down a slippery slope yet the gays who might be part of that church take it for granted the ministers and those "called by God" have the knowledge to get them into the heavenly kingdom after.

As for me. I belong, but do not attend a church. Reason. My mom wants a minister to say words when she is gone.

No big funeral, just a prayer like they did for my dad when it was only mom and me and a friend in attendance.

I fault the brick and mortar churches as much as life styles cause the brinck and mortar minister are looking the other way.

I go to a "brick and mortar" church.  Nothing like this happens.  As some have said, we have no creed but the bible. 

The old denominations are fading into obscurity because of leaving the Bible.  There is personal responsibility in knowing the scriptures, no cop out just because the church isn't teaching it.  If the church isn't teaching the bible, get out.
Title: Re: Baptist Church and Homosexuals
Post by: seekingHiswisdom on Fri Feb 07, 2020 - 09:02:09
Correct.

But if their church is corrupted by the twisting of scripture can they be held accountable for even those who read the bible, but have been given false interpretations... whose fault is it? And who has the greater sin?

Right here at GC we have had those, from time to time, come in defense of the gay life styles... and they always have their
arguments. Generally they leave when they do not get sympathetic ears here, but they leave believing we are wrong.


With regards homosexuality, I am inclined to believe that no true christian or church can misinterpret this scriptures, nor can deny that engaging in same-gender sexual activity is an abominable sin:

1 Corinthians 6:9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God.

Even in the Old covenant Law, this is what was commanded:

Leviticus 18:22 Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.

I don't know how one can twist these scriptures to make it appear that such acts as not sinful.

I agree, but when was the last time you sat in a church or even watch a televangelist preach on these things. I would wager that if you heard that at all it has not been very often.

We are also told

Revelation 21:8
(KJV)
8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

So the next time your wife asks you how her hair looks, or if she looks fat in a certain outfit, or if you like a new dish she prepared.... BE HONEST. It is your eternity that is at stake.

This is one I am trying to work on. I can only pray God knows I am. And pray I am kept from situations that require less then the full truth. (Yes... there are some)

But how many churches preach John 3:16

“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.
and therefore if you believe they believe not perish but have eternal life means that they will go to heaven.

and go onto  Ephsians  2: 8-9

For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast.

To me it says having eternal life means that instead of ceasing to exist when you die you will go to one or the other on judgment.

Last week I was talking with a man who goes every Sunday to church unless something unforeseen happens. He is 68 years old.
He talked of his marriage situation and how that led him years ago to have an affair, yet she would not give him a divorce.

He now wants someone to "play" with online.

This man does not understand he is doing anything wrong, and if he does does not think there will be any consequences.

and what of a former minister who permitted a woman to lie to the children about the Wise men seeing Jesus at the manger.
When I challenged him he simply said he felt it better "to not confuse the people"....

Yet he was one of the great advocates of Jesus is the Reason.... for eveything.

So when you have churches that get it right, but are of the opinion they for whatever reason chose to not condemn the general lifestyles of John Q Public, allowing John Q Public to believe that Jesus died for their sins and to hold on to that faith....
you can talk til you are blue in the face..... if their church does not come right out and condemn actions, and if their church starts to accept certain things.... The people cannot be at fault because they are listening to the people God placed there.. or so they think.... and if they do pick up a bible and then start a search for understanding.... even some issues right here at GC... they will believe there are too many  varied opinions and so off to their weekly meetings or TV programs and just continue on in their sin... blinded to the truth.





Title: Re: Baptist Church and Homosexuals
Post by: Texas Conservative on Fri Feb 07, 2020 - 09:30:08
I agree, but when was the last time you sat in a church or even watch a televangelist preach on these things. I would wager that if you heard that at all it has not been very often.

We are also told

Revelation 21:8
(KJV)
8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

So the next time your wife asks you how her hair looks, or if she looks fat in a certain outfit, or if you like a new dish she prepared.... BE HONEST. It is your eternity that is at stake.

This is one I am trying to work on. I can only pray God knows I am. And pray I am kept from situations that require less then the full truth. (Yes... there are some)

But how many churches preach John 3:16

“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.
and therefore if you believe they believe not perish but have eternal life means that they will go to heaven.

and go onto  Ephsians  2: 8-9

For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast.

To me it says having eternal life means that instead of ceasing to exist when you die you will go to one or the other on judgment.

Last week I was talking with a man who goes every Sunday to church unless something unforeseen happens. He is 68 years old.
He talked of his marriage situation and how that led him years ago to have an affair, yet she would not give him a divorce.

He now wants someone to "play" with online.

This man does not understand he is doing anything wrong, and if he does does not think there will be any consequences.

and what of a former minister who permitted a woman to lie to the children about the Wise men seeing Jesus at the manger.
When I challenged him he simply said he felt it better "to not confuse the people"....

Yet he was one of the great advocates of Jesus is the Reason.... for eveything.

So when you have churches that get it right, but are of the opinion they for whatever reason chose to not condemn the general lifestyles of John Q Public, allowing John Q Public to believe that Jesus died for their sins and to hold on to that faith....
you can talk til you are blue in the face..... if their church does not come right out and condemn actions, and if their church starts to accept certain things.... The people cannot be at fault because they are listening to the people God placed there.. or so they think.... and if they do pick up a bible and then start a search for understanding.... even some issues right here at GC... they will believe there are too many  varied opinions and so off to their weekly meetings or TV programs and just continue on in their sin... blinded to the truth.

My "brick and mortar" church does not shy away from these things.  I have heard it spoken on recently in Sunday night bible study going through the book of Romans.  Romans 1 is very explicit.  There is simply no excuse for anyone.

No matter what the church teaches, there is individual responsibility.  Even those who have been taught nothing even about Jesus Christ at all are without excuse. 

Romans 1

18The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of people, who suppress the truth by their wickedness, 19since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse
.
Title: Re: Baptist Church and Homosexuals
Post by: Michael2012 on Fri Feb 07, 2020 - 23:04:44
I agree, but when was the last time you sat in a church or even watch a televangelist preach on these things. I would wager that if you heard that at all it has not been very often.

You're right. I hope that church leader's silence about this subject of homosexuality isn't for personal interest and gain, nor it means they deny its sinfulness.

Quote from: seekingHiswisdom
We are also told

Revelation 21:8
(KJV)
8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

So the next time your wife asks you how her hair looks, or if she looks fat in a certain outfit, or if you like a new dish she prepared.... BE HONEST. It is your eternity that is at stake.

This is one I am trying to work on. I can only pray God knows I am. And pray I am kept from situations that require less then the full truth. (Yes... there are some)

For me, such things as the look of her hair, outfit, dish, are relative not absolute. Who's the liar, your son perhaps or you, when you say her new dish is not good and your son says it's deliciously good? And eternity at stake? Not at all, I have to say.

Quote from: seekingHiswisdom
But how many churches preach John 3:16

“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.
and therefore if you believe they believe not perish but have eternal life means that they will go to heaven.

and go onto  Ephsians  2: 8-9

For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast.

To me it says having eternal life means that instead of ceasing to exist when you die you will go to one or the other on judgment.

Well, the other isn't at all life. In fact, scriptures refers to it as the second death.

Quote from: seekingHiswisdom
Last week I was talking with a man who goes every Sunday to church unless something unforeseen happens. He is 68 years old.
He talked of his marriage situation and how that led him years ago to have an affair, yet she would not give him a divorce.

He now wants someone to "play" with online.

This man does not understand he is doing anything wrong, and if he does does not think there will be any consequences.

and what of a former minister who permitted a woman to lie to the children about the Wise men seeing Jesus at the manger.
When I challenged him he simply said he felt it better "to not confuse the people"....

Yet he was one of the great advocates of Jesus is the Reason.... for eveything.

So when you have churches that get it right, but are of the opinion they for whatever reason chose to not condemn the general lifestyles of John Q Public, allowing John Q Public to believe that Jesus died for their sins and to hold on to that faith....
you can talk til you are blue in the face..... if their church does not come right out and condemn actions, and if their church starts to accept certain things.... The people cannot be at fault because they are listening to the people God placed there.. or so they think.... and if they do pick up a bible and then start a search for understanding.... even some issues right here at GC... they will believe there are too many  varied opinions and so off to their weekly meetings or TV programs and just continue on in their sin... blinded to the truth.

Yes, they are deceived. But are they not at fault? The apostles, especially Paul, gave warning to the church, even in this scriptures:

1 Corinthians 6:9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God.

Is not the Christian, him who walk[/b] not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

After the Spirit, we walk. So, would you walk after what the Spirit says or what the church says?