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Offline jdschaefer1

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Catholic curious about Baptist faith
« on: Sun Mar 14, 2010 - 14:40:27 »
I'm a catholic, and i'm curious about the baptist faith. I have never been to any church outside the catholic religion, and i'm curious to go. I plan to go tonight. I have been reading some of the differences in the beliefs between catholics and baptists and I think I believe in more of the baptists beliefs.

Im not sure If anyone here can tell me the main beliefs that differ between catholics and baptists, I might not have found all the differences in my research.

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Catholic curious about Baptist faith
« on: Sun Mar 14, 2010 - 14:40:27 »

Offline The Parson

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Re: Catholic curious about Baptist faith
« Reply #1 on: Sun Mar 14, 2010 - 14:44:58 »
So what particular questions do you have? There are quite a few differences and these brethren have been around for quite a while. I'll be more than happy to help,

I couldn't resist this being my first post on a new board.
« Last Edit: Sun Mar 14, 2010 - 15:17:50 by The Parson »

Offline jdschaefer1

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Re: Catholic curious about Baptist faith
« Reply #2 on: Sun Mar 14, 2010 - 23:27:15 »
I went to my first Baptist Church tonight. I went with a friend who had attended a Baptist church most of her life, but for the last few years has not gone to church. They had a group called the Collingsworth Family performing a concert. She told me that was not how a normal sunday service was, it just happened that there was a concert on the night I first went. One thing I did notice however about the church in general was that there were no crucifix's. In every catholic church i've been to they have a crucifix, in the baptist church they had only crosses. Can anyone explain why that is?

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Re: Catholic curious about Baptist faith
« Reply #3 on: Sat Mar 20, 2010 - 23:36:46 »
I went to my first Baptist Church tonight. I went with a friend who had attended a Baptist church most of her life, but for the last few years has not gone to church. They had a group called the Collingsworth Family performing a concert. She told me that was not how a normal sunday service was, it just happened that there was a concert on the night I first went. One thing I did notice however about the church in general was that there were no crucifix's. In every catholic church i've been to they have a crucifix, in the baptist church they had only crosses. Can anyone explain why that is?

 Baptist follow zwingli and calvins teachings  they think having a crucifix is of the devil.

A study on the Swiss reformation compared to the  German reformation would be of MAJOR help to your understanding .

Offline Rob, PGK

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Re: Catholic curious about Baptist faith
« Reply #4 on: Sat Mar 20, 2010 - 23:44:44 »
I'm a catholic, and i'm curious about the baptist faith. I have never been to any church outside the catholic religion, and i'm curious to go. I plan to go tonight. I have been reading some of the differences in the beliefs between catholics and baptists and I think I believe in more of the baptists beliefs.

Im not sure If anyone here can tell me the main beliefs that differ between catholics and baptists, I might not have found all the differences in my research.


A couple of main differences:

they believe in the autonomy of each Church
"Communion" is not the real presence of Christ, but only a symbol
They have a zero tolerance policy when it comes to alcohol, dancing, and mixed swimming

There are different types of Baptist, so for a clearer answer, you would need to clarify which type of Baptist Church you are interested in. I have knowledge of the Southern Baptist only.

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Re: Catholic curious about Baptist faith
« Reply #4 on: Sat Mar 20, 2010 - 23:44:44 »



ex cathedra

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Re: Catholic curious about Baptist faith
« Reply #5 on: Sat Mar 20, 2010 - 23:57:22 »
I'm a catholic, and i'm curious about the baptist faith. I have never been to any church outside the catholic religion, and i'm curious to go. I plan to go tonight. I have been reading some of the differences in the beliefs between catholics and baptists and I think I believe in more of the baptists beliefs.

Im not sure If anyone here can tell me the main beliefs that differ between catholics and baptists, I might not have found all the differences in my research.


A couple of main differences:

they believe in the autonomy of each Church
"Communion" is not the real presence of Christ, but only a symbol
They have a zero tolerance policy when it comes to alcohol, dancing, and mixed swimming

There are different types of Baptist, so for a clearer answer, you would need to clarify which type of Baptist Church you are interested in. I have knowledge of the Southern Baptist only.

 all the baptist churches follow the swiss reformers  "radical reformation' . Rather than the German conservative reformation.

Offline stevehut

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Re: Catholic curious about Baptist faith
« Reply #6 on: Sun Mar 21, 2010 - 00:35:49 »
Everyone here should be careful to remember that there are dozens of churches and denominations called "Baptist."  There are vast differences between some of them.

Offline trifecta

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Re: Catholic curious about Baptist faith
« Reply #7 on: Sun Mar 21, 2010 - 11:26:49 »
Steve's spot-on reply revealed the very problem of the Baptist Churches.  To paraphrase Forrest Gump,  Baptists are like a box of chocolates, you never know what you are going to get.

They don't believe in any kinds of creeds, therefore, the Baptists can have both liberals (e.g. Jesse Jackson) and conservatives (e.g. Jerry Falwell_ as members. 

I have met many lovely Baptist people whom I even learned things from, but the Baptist movement is too disjointed to be a part of.

Offline stevehut

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Re: Catholic curious about Baptist faith
« Reply #8 on: Tue Mar 23, 2010 - 20:28:29 »
Trifecta, I wasn't criticizing the divisions among Baptists.  If we continued this offshoot I just might agree with you, but that's another discussion for another time, methinks.

My only point here was that everyone here should make sure they specify WHICH Baptists they're referring to.

Offline stevehut

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Re: Catholic curious about Baptist faith
« Reply #9 on: Tue Mar 23, 2010 - 20:30:05 »
all the baptist churches follow the swiss reformers 

Not always.  And even among those who have roots in the Swiss, some have morphed beyond all recognition by now.

Offline Bon Voyage

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Re: Catholic curious about Baptist faith
« Reply #10 on: Tue Mar 23, 2010 - 20:36:30 »
Everyone here should be careful to remember that there are dozens of churches and denominations called "Baptist."  There are vast differences between some of them.

There are some that are the spiritual children of the union between Presbyterians and Baptists, for instance, the Restoration Movement.

Offline AChristian

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Re: Catholic curious about Baptist faith
« Reply #11 on: Sat May 08, 2010 - 11:17:21 »
The major difference between Catholics and Baptists has to do with the important matter of salvation.  Catholics believe in salvation by faith plus the good works that are done by faith, but Baptists believe in salvation by faith ALONE.  Catholics view justification as an ongoing process, but Baptists see it as a one-time event.  Of course, Catholics and Baptists do not have the same starting point when it comes to their beliefs and practices.  Catholics look to the Bible plus tradition as their authoritative guide, but Baptists rely upon the Bible alone as their supreme and final authority. 

Offline pointmade

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Re: Catholic curious about Baptist faith
« Reply #12 on: Sun May 09, 2010 - 07:26:19 »
AChristian: Catholics look to the Bible plus tradition as their authoritative guide, but Baptists rely upon the Bible alone as their supreme and final authority.   "

Would you say then, that both, Catholic and Baptist believe in "original sin"? If so, then we can say that this "tenet" is the basic doctrine of both.

Offline AChristian

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Re: Catholic curious about Baptist faith
« Reply #13 on: Sun May 09, 2010 - 20:19:04 »
Yes, both Catholics and Baptists believe in original sin, but Baptists do not see infant baptism as the answer to this problem.  They are convinced that a sinner must be converted to Christ through an act of his own free moral agency.  In most ways, Catholics and Baptists are polar opposites. 

Offline John 6

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Re: Catholic curious about Baptist faith
« Reply #14 on: Wed May 26, 2010 - 15:17:25 »
The Catholic Church was founded in the year 33 AD by Jesus Christ.  The Catholic Church has a 2,000 year history we have believed the same thing for the entire time.  When a question of faith arises we look at the writings of the early church fathers and test the faith through the years to ensure we are not straying from the truth.  This is called tradition.  Which is what we are most condemned for by our separated brothers and sisters (protestants...those who protested)

The most important difference between Catholics and most protestants is that we believe that John 6 means exactly what it says.  A very interesting point is that John 6:66 is the only book in the new testament that has chapter 6 and verse 66.  This passage indicates those who rejected the bread of life.  Is this just a mere coincidence?....The book of revelation was written by John.

The baptist Church was started in 1609 by John Smyth.  

Offline pointmade

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Re: Catholic curious about Baptist faith
« Reply #15 on: Thu May 27, 2010 - 08:35:59 »
John6 "The Catholic Church was founded in the year 33 AD by Jesus Christ.  The Catholic Church has a 2,000 year history we have believed the same thing for the entire time.  When a question of faith arises we look at the writings of the early church fathers and test the faith through the years to ensure we are not straying from the truth.  This is called tradition.  Which is what we are most condemned for by our separated brothers and sisters (protestants...those who protested."

Interesting, how do you come up with "33 AD"? According to Augustine, you have NOT "believed the same thing for the entire time." Do you still believe the earth is flat? Keep in mind that the basic tenet of Catholicism and Protestantism is that you both claim to have "inherited Adam's sin." Wouldn't this make you kissing cousins?

Offline John 6

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Re: Catholic curious about Baptist faith
« Reply #16 on: Thu May 27, 2010 - 13:37:50 »
The shape of the earth has nothing to do with faith and morals and the Magisterium of Catholic Church has never made a statement regarding the shape of the earth.   rofl

What an individual Catholic (layman, priest, Bishop, even Pope) does, says or claims is not necessarily doctrine or dogma.  Only the Pope in union with the other bishops and only when speaking from the Chair of Peter can proclaim Doctrine and Dogma and they only cover matters of Faith and Morals.  The Magisterium can not and does not change or add anything, they can only clarify what has been practiced and believed from the time of Christ.  They do this buy reading the writings of the Early Church Fathers.

Besides, maybe I do believe the earth is flat....who cares, it doesn't affect my salvation.... ::doh::

Offline pointmade

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Re: Catholic curious about Baptist faith
« Reply #17 on: Fri May 28, 2010 - 09:51:47 »
john6 "The shape of the earth has nothing to do with faith and morals and the Magisterium of Catholic Church has never made a statement regarding the shape of the earth. "

This is my point John6.....Scripture is a "dead letter" to Catholicism....A true man of God would know from reading Isaiah 40 "It is he that sites upon the circle of the earth" (Isa. 40:41).

So, with your "earth is flat thinking"  tell me again just HOW you know you are saved from the wrath of God by your Catholic doctrine.  Your misinterpretation of John 6 is that of the Jewish audience to whom Jesus  that He was "the bread of life." their utter lack of spiritual insight is not unlike your doctrine of "Transubstantiation." You actually believe that the presence of the flesh and blood of Christ in the loaf and in the cup is literal here in this text? How can you support this absurd doctrine ? You do know the book of Hebrews is plain as to the heretical nature of such a practice (cf. Heb. 10:10, 12).

You believe by taking of the loaf and have a priest drink of the cup that you sacrifice the body of Jesus anew? You are NOT aware that the sacrifice made of Christ's body at Calvary was "once for all"!? 
Carried to its logical conclusion, this doctrine of making Sacraments the means of life is very near the Roman system of  meritorious works.

Jesus explains to this Jewish audience in John 6: The way to spiritual knowledge is to be drawn of God unto His Son; the way to be drawn is to hear and learn the Word of God. The heaven sent Food which give eternal life is the atoning death of Christ. Not by the traditions of men!

Men appropriate this Food by trusting and obeying the Son of God. "It is the spirit that gives life: the flesh profits nothing: the words that I have spoken unto you are spirit, and are life."  This is why the New Testament is so important in our lives. We appropriate the flesh and blood of Jesus (Life) when we partake of His humanity and His divinity by abiding in all the words of Jesus and His apostles. The absolute necessity of living by abiding  in God's Word is the point of emphasis here, NOT the literal flesh. He is the Word of God manifest in the flesh, and that this multitude (Jews) must divorce their minds from seeking only the physical bread, and turn to the heavenly Bread of Life (cf. Ma. 4:4).

Keep in mind, there is no evidence what soever that Jesus had any reference in this massage to the Jew in John 6 to the Lord's Supper! Paul has written, "I have been crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I that live, but Christ lives in me: and that life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith, the faith which is in the Son of God, who love me and gave himself for me" (Gal. 2:20).


Offline John 6

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Re: Catholic curious about Baptist faith
« Reply #18 on: Fri May 28, 2010 - 17:10:15 »
Well, maybe it is flat circle...like a pancake...

And yes, I believe that Christ meant exactly what he said in John 6.  "Unless you eat the flesh of the son of man and drink his blood you do not have life with in you."  "You must eat flesh and drink my blood to have eternal life."  How many times did he say this in John 6??? Was it three or four?

I do not have to pervert the Words of Christ to make it fit into my theology. 

The scripture tells us this is a hard teaching....Those who could not accept left....They chose their mark

John 6:66 As a result of this, many (of) his disciples returned to their former way of life and no longer accompanied him.

I choose the Mark of Eternal life.

When his disciples left he did not stop them and explain that he was speaking metaphoric...

At the last supper he said..."This is my Body"  He did not say this represents my body...




Offline Ed B

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Re: Catholic curious about Baptist faith
« Reply #19 on: Sat May 29, 2010 - 00:20:03 »
The Catholic Church has a 2,000 year history we have believed the same thing for the entire time.  

Oh my.  This simply is not true.  There are many examples of Catholic doctrine and beliefs moving around over the centuries.  I am no theologian but I have read enough Church history including writings and letters from the early Church Fathers to know they have NOT believed the same thing for 2000 years.  Some of the Saints who were contemporaries with one another didn't agree with one another at a given point and continued to disagree their entire lives.

You should drop this argument and stick with your John 6 argument.  I would guess that a large number of Protestants/Evangelical types who convert to Catholicism, Eastern Orthodoxy or Anglicanism experience an "Eucharistic conversion".  No one will buy your other statement.


 

Offline pointmade

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Re: Catholic curious about Baptist faith
« Reply #20 on: Sat May 29, 2010 - 09:23:57 »
John6 "I do not have to pervert the Words of Christ to make it fit into my theology. "

OK John6, and you believe the ground beef you eat at a McDonald's is a "Big Mack"...lol

Those Jews who followed Jesus from the see of Galilee to Caperneum in John 6 were looking for more fish and bread to fill their stomach, not spiritual food. Read the context of the message in John 6, verses 27.  It is his Spirit in our spirit which give eternal life. His flesh in our flesh would profit nothing, even if a priest able, by his blessing, to perform the miracle of transubstantiation.

The thought of drinking blood was startling to a Jew. You are aware of Genesis 9:4 and Leviticus 17:10-14 which forbids to taste even the blood of animals?
Exegate the contex of His teaching here in John 6. Jesus had started to show to the Jews that he was to the human spirit what bread was to the body. It was difficult to bring home to their carnal minds so spiritual a thought, and therefore Jesus clothed it in carnal metaphors and made it as plain as possible. Look at the modern day "Jew" of today, they still are spiritually lost and do not believe that Jesus is the Messiah sent down from heaven.

Catholicism and Protestantism  have used the text found in John 6 in their doctrine for Communion..... Ridiculous, and pagan in character! In verse 53 Jesus expresses in words what he afterward expressed in symbols, when he gave the Lord's supper in the upper room.... The vital force of a disciple is proportioned to his belief in, remembrance of, and desire to assimilate the Christ. Verses 54-55...The flesh to be eaten must be broken, and the blood, if it is to be drunk, must be poured out. Christ speaks of himself as the sacrifice given for the saving of the world, and one must appropriate to himself by faith this expiation and find in it reconciliation with God if he would live for Him.

By insisting, on the drinking of his blood, Jesus is telling the Jewish mind set that his very life is to be assimilated.... He is "the true bread that comes down from heaven." Jesus is comparing his body to the "manna" sent by God to their fathers (vs. 31-35). Try reading the text through the eyes of a a Jew and not a modern day Catholic, or Baptist...




Offline Holly3278

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Re: Catholic curious about Baptist faith
« Reply #21 on: Sun Jul 25, 2010 - 15:57:46 »
I'm a catholic, and i'm curious about the baptist faith. I have never been to any church outside the catholic religion, and i'm curious to go. I plan to go tonight. I have been reading some of the differences in the beliefs between catholics and baptists and I think I believe in more of the baptists beliefs.

Im not sure If anyone here can tell me the main beliefs that differ between catholics and baptists, I might not have found all the differences in my research.


A couple of main differences:

they believe in the autonomy of each Church
"Communion" is not the real presence of Christ, but only a symbol
They have a zero tolerance policy when it comes to alcohol, dancing, and mixed swimming

There are different types of Baptist, so for a clearer answer, you would need to clarify which type of Baptist Church you are interested in. I have knowledge of the Southern Baptist only.

I am a Southern Baptist and was even raised one but I beg to differ with you on what the Baptist Church teaches. Not all Southern Baptists have a zero tolerance policy when it comes to dancing and mixed swimming.  For example, dancing would be fine between a married couple and mixed swimming would be fine amongst families in some Southern Baptist churches. Other Southern Baptist churches are even more lenient.

Offline Norton

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Re: Catholic curious about Baptist faith
« Reply #22 on: Wed Sep 15, 2010 - 22:28:26 »
Just curious. Does the Catholic Church interpret Romans (the sixth book of the NT) 6:6 as literal or metaphoric?

Offline chestertonrules

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Re: Catholic curious about Baptist faith
« Reply #23 on: Thu Sep 30, 2010 - 20:43:02 »
Just curious. Does the Catholic Church interpret Romans (the sixth book of the NT) 6:6 as literal or metaphoric?

Romans is full of literal teaching and metaphorical illustrations.

It is not an either/or question.

Offline Norton

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Re: Catholic curious about Baptist faith
« Reply #24 on: Sun Oct 03, 2010 - 21:23:04 »
Does the Catholic Church teach that when one is baptized he is literally crucified and buried with Christ? Or does the Church teach that one is figuratively crucified and buried with Christ when he is baptized?

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Re: Catholic curious about Baptist faith
« Reply #25 on: Sun Oct 03, 2010 - 22:00:52 »
Habbakuk... The righteous will live by his faith.

Visionary

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Re: Catholic curious about Baptist faith
« Reply #26 on: Sun Oct 03, 2010 - 22:03:51 »
So I am curious why so many of you are intent in making differences and divisions and arguments?

Offline stevehut

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Re: Catholic curious about Baptist faith
« Reply #27 on: Wed Mar 23, 2011 - 15:59:52 »
The major difference between Catholics and Baptists has to do with the important matter of salvation.  Catholics believe in salvation by faith plus the good works that are done by faith, but Baptists believe in salvation by faith ALONE. 

Again, a dangerous generalization.   ::frown::  Not true of all Baptists, perhaps not even of most.  Many Bap's are descendants of Calvinism, which is closer to Catholicism than some would like to admit.

Offline Apothecary 4 Christ

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Re: Catholic curious about Baptist faith
« Reply #28 on: Wed Mar 23, 2011 - 16:16:26 »
Many Bap's are descendants of Calvinism, which is closer to Catholicism than some would like to admit.

Steve,

Just curious.  What specific similarities are you refering to?  Are you just talking about paedobaptism? 

Thanks!

Jason

Offline stevehut

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Re: Catholic curious about Baptist faith
« Reply #29 on: Wed Mar 23, 2011 - 16:55:57 »
What specific similarities are you refering to?  Are you just talking about paedobaptism?  


Plus Original Sin
Plus an elite clergy
Plus widespread ritualism

If you look at the Reformation-era preachers, they ALL began from the fundamental premise that Catholicism was essentially sound.  But each one had a handful of pet issues, and placed a Band-Aid on those select areas.  But none of them was truly revolutionary.  It's only in the rear-view mirror of history, that we see the long-term changes, that it seems like a wholesale reform.

Addendum:

Another thought -- The establishment of the Church of England wasn't based on moral or theological issues at all.  Henry wanted a divorce, and he granted himself a divorce.  The religion didn't change.  The people still went to the same local parish and worshipped the same as always.  It took many decades  before the Anglican doctrine or practice became noticeably distinct from Catholicism.
« Last Edit: Wed Mar 23, 2011 - 17:47:03 by stevehut »

cs80918

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Re: Catholic curious about Baptist faith
« Reply #30 on: Sat Nov 19, 2011 - 00:44:34 »
I went to my first Baptist Church tonight. I went with a friend who had attended a Baptist church most of her life, but for the last few years has not gone to church. They had a group called the Collingsworth Family performing a concert. She told me that was not how a normal sunday service was, it just happened that there was a concert on the night I first went. One thing I did notice however about the church in general was that there were no crucifix's. In every catholic church i've been to they have a crucifix, in the baptist church they had only crosses. Can anyone explain why that is?

I'm not baptist, but I assume their is only a cross instead of a crucifix, because Jesus is no longer on the cross and it might represent his fininished work that he died and arose and is know in heaven.

Offline JohnDB

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Re: Catholic curious about Baptist faith
« Reply #31 on: Sat Dec 24, 2011 - 15:26:00 »
I am a Baptist and don't understand the difference between a crucifix and a cross. Aren't they the same thing?   

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Re: Catholic curious about Baptist faith
« Reply #32 on: Sun Dec 25, 2011 - 16:58:39 »
I am a CoCer but I think the difference is a cross is a cross and a crucifix is a cross with a little model of Jesus on it.

I was taught from an early age that a 1st century Christian would no more wear a little gold cross around his neck or have a cross on his wall than we would wear a little gold electric chair on a chain or have a noose on our wall. The cross is an instrument of torture and not a decoration.

We don't have crosses in our church buildings but I think the Baptists do, however without a depiction of Jesus on them.


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Re: Catholic curious about Baptist faith
« Reply #33 on: Sun Dec 25, 2011 - 17:34:14 »
I am a CoCer but I think the difference is a cross is a cross and a crucifix is a cross with a little model of Jesus on it.

I was taught from an early age that a 1st century Christian would no more wear a little gold cross around his neck or have a cross on his wall than we would wear a little gold electric chair on a chain or have a noose on our wall. The cross is an instrument of torture and not a decoration.

We don't have crosses in our church buildings but I think the Baptists do, however without a depiction of Jesus on them.



So you are a baptist!


Offline Snargles

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Re: Catholic curious about Baptist faith
« Reply #34 on: Sun Dec 25, 2011 - 18:02:14 »
David Lipscomb, one of our prominent writers and preachers from the Civil War up to the early 20th century, said "We all once were Baptists", in a discussion of whether Baptists need to be rebaptized to become members of the CoC.

 

     
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