Author Topic: Catholic curious about Baptist faith  (Read 36295 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Matteobeast

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 8
  • Manna: 0
Re: Catholic curious about Baptist faith
« Reply #35 on: Thu Feb 23, 2012 - 20:59:17 »
Historically speaking before Christ was crucified the cross was a pagan symbol, one that symbolized death. It was not a good symbol. The church took this symbol and ran with it if you will.
 
And the reason Baptists believe in just having the cross is because Christ work there is finished and he is now at the right hand of the throne of God.

Christian Forums and Message Board

Re: Catholic curious about Baptist faith
« Reply #35 on: Thu Feb 23, 2012 - 20:59:17 »

Offline betsy

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 901
  • Manna: 31
  • (T)ogether (E)veryone (A)chieves (M)ore
Re: Catholic curious about Baptist faith
« Reply #36 on: Wed Sep 19, 2012 - 06:06:48 »
Im not sure If anyone here can tell me the main beliefs that differ between catholics and baptists, I might not have found all the differences in my research.

  I was born and raised a Catholic, and I strayed from God.  When I finally decided to come back to God, I've made it a point to read and study the Bible - since if I want to please God, I should know what He wants from me.  My first reading of the Bible showed me things that I used to do as a Catholic are actually against the teachings of the Bible.
 
1.  Praying to Mary and saints to intercede for us.  (Only Jesus is the way to God)  This also is a stumbling block in cultivating and nurturing a personal relationship with Christ.  PERSONAL RELATIONSHIP WITH CHRIST.  To me, that's the key!

2.  Idolatry  (I was guilty of that too - wiping handkerchief on statues of Mary or saints praying some "blessings" or "miraculous interventions" would be given by said saint).  The focus is taken away from GOD!

3.  Repetitious prayers - like the rosary (which is actually glorifying and praying to Mary).

4.  Vatican's handling of the child molestation cases  (how many Christians felt betrayed and got disillusioned with Christianity over this?)
Also, ex-Christians I've encountered  (most of whom seems to be ex-Catholics) are very angry non-believers - more so than your regular atheist!  My own much-older sister is one and she abandoned Christ.  She tried to convince me to do the same.  Hooked up with new-age!

5.  Too much rituals and pageantry which makes it a spectacle that takes away from the focus on God.

6.  Confession and "penalties" for sins - the emphasis is more on the man-made "penalties" to pray how many Our Father and Holy Mary....but not on the true meaning of repentance!

7.  When Christ was blasting away at the Pharisees, somehow I couldn't help but equate it to Catholicism.

Now, I'm officially a Baptist.....but denomination is not really important to me.   I also listen to 7th Day Adventist. I also listen to Charles Price from Living Truth Ministry (which was actually instrumental in my conversion) - the way he explains verses makes it seem so easy to read and understand the Bible, that I ended up opening the Bible myself!  It was also this ministry that advised me to look for a local church to belong to - so I can worship and glorify God with a group.

 In my view, reading and understanding of the Bible is very, very important.  It becomes a compass - you'll know when someone is giving the wrong message, or is getting carried away and start imposing their own man-made laws, or being swayed by things of men - like political correctness as an example.  Once a church starts twisting the words in the Bible to suit what society dictates - it becomes a false church.

The Baptist have accepted women as preachers - I just stay away from the church on those times when I know a woman is preaching.
 Have to keep up vigilance that we not deviate from the Bible.  Also I'm not into making the church as a social thing for the congregation.  You can get so carried away with attending meeting for this group or meeting for that group (that you don't have any time to do other things that truly matter).  It would be one thing if we invite the poor or those in halfway houses or those who are troubled, etc.., to come to a dinner or movie (that shows Christian films) - we should be reaching out more.
 
 
 
« Last Edit: Wed Sep 19, 2012 - 06:20:28 by betsy »

Offline Willie T

  • Minds of moderate caliber ordinarily condemn everything which is beyond their range.
  • Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 2727
  • Manna: 99
  • Gender: Male
  • "Religion is unbelief." Vineyard St.Petersburg, FL
Re: Catholic curious about Baptist faith
« Reply #37 on: Wed Sep 19, 2012 - 08:27:53 »
Im not sure If anyone here can tell me the main beliefs that differ between catholics and baptists, I might not have found all the differences in my research.

  I was born and raised a Catholic, and I strayed from God.  When I finally decided to come back to God, I've made it a point to read and study the Bible - since if I want to please God, I should know what He wants from me.  My first reading of the Bible showed me things that I used to do as a Catholic are actually against the teachings of the Bible.
 
1.  Praying to Mary and saints to intercede for us.  (Only Jesus is the way to God)  This also is a stumbling block in cultivating and nurturing a personal relationship with Christ.  PERSONAL RELATIONSHIP WITH CHRIST.  To me, that's the key!

2.  Idolatry  (I was guilty of that too - wiping handkerchief on statues of Mary or saints praying some "blessings" or "miraculous interventions" would be given by said saint).  The focus is taken away from GOD!

3.  Repetitious prayers - like the rosary (which is actually glorifying and praying to Mary).

4.  Vatican's handling of the child molestation cases  (how many Christians felt betrayed and got disillusioned with Christianity over this?)
Also, ex-Christians I've encountered  (most of whom seems to be ex-Catholics) are very angry non-believers - more so than your regular atheist!  My own much-older sister is one and she abandoned Christ.  She tried to convince me to do the same.  Hooked up with new-age!

5.  Too much rituals and pageantry which makes it a spectacle that takes away from the focus on God.

6.  Confession and "penalties" for sins - the emphasis is more on the man-made "penalties" to pray how many Our Father and Holy Mary....but not on the true meaning of repentance!

7.  When Christ was blasting away at the Pharisees, somehow I couldn't help but equate it to Catholicism.

Now, I'm officially a Baptist.....but denomination is not really important to me.   I also listen to 7th Day Adventist. I also listen to Charles Price from Living Truth Ministry (which was actually instrumental in my conversion) - the way he explains verses makes it seem so easy to read and understand the Bible, that I ended up opening the Bible myself!  It was also this ministry that advised me to look for a local church to belong to - so I can worship and glorify God with a group.

 In my view, reading and understanding of the Bible is very, very important.  It becomes a compass - you'll know when someone is giving the wrong message, or is getting carried away and start imposing their own man-made laws, or being swayed by things of men - like political correctness as an example.  Once a church starts twisting the words in the Bible to suit what society dictates - it becomes a false church.

The Baptist have accepted women as preachers - I just stay away from the church on those times when I know a woman is preaching.
 Have to keep up vigilance that we not deviate from the Bible.  Also I'm not into making the church as a social thing for the congregation.  You can get so carried away with attending meeting for this group or meeting for that group (that you don't have any time to do other things that truly matter).  It would be one thing if we invite the poor or those in halfway houses or those who are troubled, etc.., to come to a dinner or movie (that shows Christian films) - we should be reaching out more.
 
 
 
I like most of what you said.  But how about thinking of GOING TO the poor and those in dire situations?  Maybe, take God to them rather than ask them to come to you.

Offline betsy

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 901
  • Manna: 31
  • (T)ogether (E)veryone (A)chieves (M)ore
Re: Catholic curious about Baptist faith
« Reply #38 on: Sun Sep 23, 2012 - 06:21:11 »
Im not sure If anyone here can tell me the main beliefs that differ between catholics and baptists, I might not have found all the differences in my research.

  I was born and raised a Catholic, and I strayed from God.  When I finally decided to come back to God, I've made it a point to read and study the Bible - since if I want to please God, I should know what He wants from me.  My first reading of the Bible showed me things that I used to do as a Catholic are actually against the teachings of the Bible.
 
1.  Praying to Mary and saints to intercede for us.  (Only Jesus is the way to God)  This also is a stumbling block in cultivating and nurturing a personal relationship with Christ.  PERSONAL RELATIONSHIP WITH CHRIST.  To me, that's the key!

2.  Idolatry  (I was guilty of that too - wiping handkerchief on statues of Mary or saints praying some "blessings" or "miraculous interventions" would be given by said saint).  The focus is taken away from GOD!

3.  Repetitious prayers - like the rosary (which is actually glorifying and praying to Mary).

4.  Vatican's handling of the child molestation cases  (how many Christians felt betrayed and got disillusioned with Christianity over this?)
Also, ex-Christians I've encountered  (most of whom seems to be ex-Catholics) are very angry non-believers - more so than your regular atheist!  My own much-older sister is one and she abandoned Christ.  She tried to convince me to do the same.  Hooked up with new-age!

5.  Too much rituals and pageantry which makes it a spectacle that takes away from the focus on God.

6.  Confession and "penalties" for sins - the emphasis is more on the man-made "penalties" to pray how many Our Father and Holy Mary....but not on the true meaning of repentance!

7.  When Christ was blasting away at the Pharisees, somehow I couldn't help but equate it to Catholicism.

Now, I'm officially a Baptist.....but denomination is not really important to me.   I also listen to 7th Day Adventist. I also listen to Charles Price from Living Truth Ministry (which was actually instrumental in my conversion) - the way he explains verses makes it seem so easy to read and understand the Bible, that I ended up opening the Bible myself!  It was also this ministry that advised me to look for a local church to belong to - so I can worship and glorify God with a group.

 In my view, reading and understanding of the Bible is very, very important.  It becomes a compass - you'll know when someone is giving the wrong message, or is getting carried away and start imposing their own man-made laws, or being swayed by things of men - like political correctness as an example.  Once a church starts twisting the words in the Bible to suit what society dictates - it becomes a false church.

The Baptist have accepted women as preachers - I just stay away from the church on those times when I know a woman is preaching.
 Have to keep up vigilance that we not deviate from the Bible.  Also I'm not into making the church as a social thing for the congregation.  You can get so carried away with attending meeting for this group or meeting for that group (that you don't have any time to do other things that truly matter).  It would be one thing if we invite the poor or those in halfway houses or those who are troubled, etc.., to come to a dinner or movie (that shows Christian films) - we should be reaching out more.
 
 
 
I like most of what you said.  But how about thinking of GOING TO the poor and those in dire situations?  Maybe, take God to them rather than ask them to come to you.

That too would be good.  There are various ways of doing things. 
My point is that these things - such as the potluck dinners - tend to become more social functions among members.....instead of reaching out!

There's this inspirational segment in Living Truth about someone who opened up a place for ex-convicts (from the local halfway house) and others (the lonely, the poor etc..,) to come to watch Christian movies, listen to inspirationals, for dinners.....to be welcomed back (just like a prodigal son would be).

I thought about that ministry by that guy.  How wonderful it is.
  Some ex-con find God while doing time - but when they go out into the outside world, that's when they become more vulnerable to temptation of the old life.  They need some support to remain strong.
A church should open its doors wide to welcome these folks, the ones whom society deems live on the fringes - some of them hunger for salvation - they just don't know how.

Somewhere in Latin America, a former hooker founded a home that welcomes hookers who wanted to find God and be transformed.  She apparently showed dvds of Charles Price to her growing group.  They showed them - very young women.  The amazing part is the radiance in their faces - they look wholesome! 
 
« Last Edit: Sun Sep 23, 2012 - 06:35:33 by betsy »

Offline Willie T

  • Minds of moderate caliber ordinarily condemn everything which is beyond their range.
  • Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 2727
  • Manna: 99
  • Gender: Male
  • "Religion is unbelief." Vineyard St.Petersburg, FL
Re: Catholic curious about Baptist faith
« Reply #39 on: Sun Sep 23, 2012 - 22:36:14 »
Ever notice Jesus didn't open any place?  Or start a church?  He went walking to where they were......... didn't once ask them to come to a place He had established.

Christian Forums and Message Board

Re: Catholic curious about Baptist faith
« Reply #39 on: Sun Sep 23, 2012 - 22:36:14 »



Offline betsy

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 901
  • Manna: 31
  • (T)ogether (E)veryone (A)chieves (M)ore
Re: Catholic curious about Baptist faith
« Reply #40 on: Tue Sep 25, 2012 - 17:53:47 »
Ever notice Jesus didn't open any place?  Or start a church?  He went walking to where they were......... didn't once ask them to come to a place He had established.

Sometimes, the people came to where He was.  The sermon on the mount for one, as an example.  It happened several times - meeting the mass of people.  He even ended up multiplying bread and fish since there were no stores to buy food nearby....so I imagined people even travelled to the middle of nowhere just to hear Him.

 There's nothing wrong going door-to-door or visiting one house at a time....depending on the needs that has to be met.   It also depends on how one wants to do his own ministry....perhaps even inspired by God....or how God guides him what to do. 


This guy I mentioned, the place became like a magnet for those who struggle with loneliness (that's the message I got) and isolation in that area.  It's hard for ex-convicts to re-enter society because of the stigma and their crimes. It's easier said than done.  People feel uneasy around them.   This guy displayed being a Christian through his action.
The folks found in this man a non-judgemental attitude that just welcomed them.
« Last Edit: Tue Sep 25, 2012 - 18:21:26 by betsy »

Offline Ladonia

  • Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 2576
  • Manna: 124
  • Gender: Male
Re: Catholic curious about Baptist faith
« Reply #41 on: Tue Sep 25, 2012 - 18:12:04 »
Im not sure If anyone here can tell me the main beliefs that differ between catholics and baptists, I might not have found all the differences in my research.

  I was born and raised a Catholic, and I strayed from God.  When I finally decided to come back to God, I've made it a point to read and study the Bible - since if I want to please God, I should know what He wants from me.  My first reading of the Bible showed me things that I used to do as a Catholic are actually against the teachings of the Bible.
 
1.  Praying to Mary and saints to intercede for us.  (Only Jesus is the way to God)  This also is a stumbling block in cultivating and nurturing a personal relationship with Christ.  PERSONAL RELATIONSHIP WITH CHRIST.  To me, that's the key!

2.  Idolatry  (I was guilty of that too - wiping handkerchief on statues of Mary or saints praying some "blessings" or "miraculous interventions" would be given by said saint).  The focus is taken away from GOD!

3.  Repetitious prayers - like the rosary (which is actually glorifying and praying to Mary).

4.  Vatican's handling of the child molestation cases  (how many Christians felt betrayed and got disillusioned with Christianity over this?)
Also, ex-Christians I've encountered  (most of whom seems to be ex-Catholics) are very angry non-believers - more so than your regular atheist!  My own much-older sister is one and she abandoned Christ.  She tried to convince me to do the same.  Hooked up with new-age!

5.  Too much rituals and pageantry which makes it a spectacle that takes away from the focus on God.

6.  Confession and "penalties" for sins - the emphasis is more on the man-made "penalties" to pray how many Our Father and Holy Mary....but not on the true meaning of repentance!

7.  When Christ was blasting away at the Pharisees, somehow I couldn't help but equate it to Catholicism.

Now, I'm officially a Baptist.....but denomination is not really important to me.   I also listen to 7th Day Adventist. I also listen to Charles Price from Living Truth Ministry (which was actually instrumental in my conversion) - the way he explains verses makes it seem so easy to read and understand the Bible, that I ended up opening the Bible myself!  It was also this ministry that advised me to look for a local church to belong to - so I can worship and glorify God with a group.

 In my view, reading and understanding of the Bible is very, very important.  It becomes a compass - you'll know when someone is giving the wrong message, or is getting carried away and start imposing their own man-made laws, or being swayed by things of men - like political correctness as an example.  Once a church starts twisting the words in the Bible to suit what society dictates - it becomes a false church.

The Baptist have accepted women as preachers - I just stay away from the church on those times when I know a woman is preaching.
 Have to keep up vigilance that we not deviate from the Bible.  Also I'm not into making the church as a social thing for the congregation.  You can get so carried away with attending meeting for this group or meeting for that group (that you don't have any time to do other things that truly matter).  It would be one thing if we invite the poor or those in halfway houses or those who are troubled, etc.., to come to a dinner or movie (that shows Christian films) - we should be reaching out more.
 
 
 
 
As regards the Rosary.  Weren't you supposed to meditate on the many important events in Christ's life? Did/do you have a problem with that?
 
Because as you know, out of all the mysteries involved in this prayer, only 2 were specific to Mary and Catholic teachings about her. All the others come directly from the Scriptures.

But with your conversion, in essence what you now do is have a different interpretation of the Scriptures, now placed in your mind by others. Because I am sure, there are others telling you that it should be interpreted in this way, and not that way. Right?
« Last Edit: Tue Sep 25, 2012 - 18:16:15 by Ladonia »

Offline betsy

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 901
  • Manna: 31
  • (T)ogether (E)veryone (A)chieves (M)ore
Re: Catholic curious about Baptist faith
« Reply #42 on: Tue Sep 25, 2012 - 18:40:43 »
Im not sure If anyone here can tell me the main beliefs that differ between catholics and baptists, I might not have found all the differences in my research.

  I was born and raised a Catholic, and I strayed from God.  When I finally decided to come back to God, I've made it a point to read and study the Bible - since if I want to please God, I should know what He wants from me.  My first reading of the Bible showed me things that I used to do as a Catholic are actually against the teachings of the Bible.
 
1.  Praying to Mary and saints to intercede for us.  (Only Jesus is the way to God)  This also is a stumbling block in cultivating and nurturing a personal relationship with Christ.  PERSONAL RELATIONSHIP WITH CHRIST.  To me, that's the key!

2.  Idolatry  (I was guilty of that too - wiping handkerchief on statues of Mary or saints praying some "blessings" or "miraculous interventions" would be given by said saint).  The focus is taken away from GOD!

3.  Repetitious prayers - like the rosary (which is actually glorifying and praying to Mary).

4.  Vatican's handling of the child molestation cases  (how many Christians felt betrayed and got disillusioned with Christianity over this?)
Also, ex-Christians I've encountered  (most of whom seems to be ex-Catholics) are very angry non-believers - more so than your regular atheist!  My own much-older sister is one and she abandoned Christ.  She tried to convince me to do the same.  Hooked up with new-age!

5.  Too much rituals and pageantry which makes it a spectacle that takes away from the focus on God.

6.  Confession and "penalties" for sins - the emphasis is more on the man-made "penalties" to pray how many Our Father and Holy Mary....but not on the true meaning of repentance!

7.  When Christ was blasting away at the Pharisees, somehow I couldn't help but equate it to Catholicism.

Now, I'm officially a Baptist.....but denomination is not really important to me.   I also listen to 7th Day Adventist. I also listen to Charles Price from Living Truth Ministry (which was actually instrumental in my conversion) - the way he explains verses makes it seem so easy to read and understand the Bible, that I ended up opening the Bible myself!  It was also this ministry that advised me to look for a local church to belong to - so I can worship and glorify God with a group.

 In my view, reading and understanding of the Bible is very, very important.  It becomes a compass - you'll know when someone is giving the wrong message, or is getting carried away and start imposing their own man-made laws, or being swayed by things of men - like political correctness as an example.  Once a church starts twisting the words in the Bible to suit what society dictates - it becomes a false church.

The Baptist have accepted women as preachers - I just stay away from the church on those times when I know a woman is preaching.
 Have to keep up vigilance that we not deviate from the Bible.  Also I'm not into making the church as a social thing for the congregation.  You can get so carried away with attending meeting for this group or meeting for that group (that you don't have any time to do other things that truly matter).  It would be one thing if we invite the poor or those in halfway houses or those who are troubled, etc.., to come to a dinner or movie (that shows Christian films) - we should be reaching out more.
 
 
 
 
As regards the Rosary.  Weren't you supposed to meditate on the many important events in Christ's life? Did/do you have a problem with that?

I have no problem with that since the focus is on Christ.  The focus should be on GOD alone

 
Quote
Because as you know, out of all the mysteries involved in this prayer, only 2 were specific to Mary and Catholic teachings about her. All the others come directly from the Scriptures.

But I've got very big problems with anything that asks others (Mary or other saints) to intercede....since only Christ is supposed to be the only way to God.  That's very specific in the Scriptures.  Prayers should not be said to anyone or any thing other than God or Christ or the Holy Sipirt .

My ultimate purpose is to attain salvation and eternal life.  If I want to have those, I better find out what God really wants from me and I better make sure I do as He says!  He actually gave the conditions that has to be met to gain entry to His Kingdom.  Otherwise.....why do I waste my time going to church....praying....since all those won't count if I give worship to others?
 
That's just the question one needs to ask one's self.  Why did you become a Christian?  What's your goal?

Quote
But with your conversion, in essence what you now do is have a different interpretation of the Scriptures, now placed in your mind by others. Because I am sure, there are others telling you that it should be interpreted in this way, and not that way. Right?

No.  I was afraid of wolves in sheep's clothings, I don't want to be misled.  That's the advice I remember my father drummed into me, when he quoted the Bible.  My father was a Catholic to the end.  He read the Bible everyday.
I live far from him so we usually just talked on the phone.  He usually ended our talks with blessings and reminders to, "don't forget to call on the Virgin Mary..."
However, the few years before his death, I realised he'd changed that to, "Don't forget God."  I want to think that after all this years,  he realised what the Bible was saying.

I read the Bible and try to understand it by myself and with the help of Bible Study, listening to Charles Price from (Living Truth) on tv - who btw was instrumental in my re-discovery of Christ - listening to Seventh Day Adventist on tv, Baptist  (I don't know what kind of Baptist I go to - I didn't realize there's so many varieties but the Pastor on this one really follow close to the Bible).   I don't really care about denominations, as long as they don't deviate from the Bible or try to twist or manipulate it.
I find that all these Pastors mentioned are careful about their sermons - they even make sure to let you know if what they're saying is speculation or just their own opinion.

 
« Last Edit: Tue Sep 25, 2012 - 18:56:33 by betsy »

Offline betsy

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 901
  • Manna: 31
  • (T)ogether (E)veryone (A)chieves (M)ore
Re: Catholic curious about Baptist faith
« Reply #43 on: Tue Sep 25, 2012 - 19:03:04 »
But with your conversion, in essence what you now do is have a different interpretation of the Scriptures, now placed in your mind by others. Because I am sure, there are others telling you that it should be interpreted in this way, and not that way. Right?

I don't know how different the Catholic Bible is to KJV.  Honestly, I never opened the Bible before I re-discovered Christ, so I wouldn't know.
 
Catholicism is heavy on tradition.  All those rituals.....that's one big complaint of Jesus with the Pharisees.  The more I read the Bible, I couldn't help but look back and see all the things the Catholic Church has been doing in direct disobedience to what's written in the Scriptures. 
Sorry....but I just have to let that off my chest.
 

Offline Ladonia

  • Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 2576
  • Manna: 124
  • Gender: Male
Re: Catholic curious about Baptist faith
« Reply #44 on: Wed Sep 26, 2012 - 03:32:00 »
But with your conversion, in essence what you now do is have a different interpretation of the Scriptures, now placed in your mind by others. Because I am sure, there are others telling you that it should be interpreted in this way, and not that way. Right?

I don't know how different the Catholic Bible is to KJV.  Honestly, I never opened the Bible before I re-discovered Christ, so I wouldn't know.
 
Catholicism is heavy on tradition.  All those rituals.....that's one big complaint of Jesus with the Pharisees.  The more I read the Bible, I couldn't help but look back and see all the things the Catholic Church has been doing in direct disobedience to what's written in the Scriptures. 
Sorry....but I just have to let that off my chest.
 

Ah, well there you go. You never opened the Bible as a Catholic, but now you do. I as a Latin Rite adherant always read the Bible and have for many years now. That's what I seem to see in people who leave the Latin Rite, they never opened the Bible before, but now they do. I wonder why.
 
But you must remember  that what you have now is just another interpretation of the Holy Scriptures, that of the SDA, Baptist,  and this Charles Price person. Who is right, the SDA people, the Baptists, or your personal interpretation? Who has the right version of the Eucharist, Reconcilliation, the Christian worship service?
 
Have you ever read the Early Fathers of the Church and what they thought about all things regarding Christ? How did the faithful worship in the year 100? St Justin Martyr writes about this. Who deceided what should be included in the New Testament canon? This was deceided by the early Bishops at  the different councils they held and all Christendom followed their lead - for hundreds upon hundreds of years.
 
Yes, as a Catholic you never opened your Bible - what a shame. Now, you are a more sincere follower of Christ, but like others who have left orthodoxy, you never gave the Latin Rite a chance and suddenly everything is wrong with it. If you read the Early Fathers of the Church, you just might find some surprising things.

Offline betsy

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 901
  • Manna: 31
  • (T)ogether (E)veryone (A)chieves (M)ore
Re: Catholic curious about Baptist faith
« Reply #45 on: Wed Sep 26, 2012 - 06:58:11 »
Ah, well there you go. You never opened the Bible as a Catholic, but now you do.

Thank God.  Otherwise I'd probably would've ended up "programmed" to be reading - but not actually,"seeing." ::smile::
Like I said, my dad - a Bible reader - throughout had been advicing me not to forget Mary....and thankfully, in his last year(s), he focused on God.

Let me make a correction about the rosary.  I think I might've made an unclear statement above.  I have a big problem about the rosary (because of praying to Mary, the rituals of beads - like, why do we have to finger those beads??? - the repetitious "mechanics" of it).

Furthermore, you mentioned about the "mysteries."  Joyful, Sorrowful and Glorious.  Thanks for reminding me.....but why do they  call them "mysteries?"  Can you please explain that to me?
 Do they mean "mysteries" in the literal sense? 
Because if that's the case,  why is it a "mystery" to a Christian that Jesus was born from a virgin, suffered and died on the cross, and finally was resurrected?  That was the execution of God's plan - to give us a chance at salvation! Christ explained why it had to happen. The apostles who witnessed it all explained how and why it all happened.  There is no longer any mystery about it - unless there is still a nagging question about the validity of it or the purpose of it, don't you think so? What's "mysterious" about it if one believes?  God gave the answer!  It's all been explained

Whoa!  There is now a "Luminous mystery?"  ::smile::  That didn't exist when I was growing up!

AND,  there is nothing "sorrowful" about being saved! 
What will be truly sorrowful is if we waste all those terrible things that Jesus had gone through,  what He had done for us, by not following what He repeatedly taught us.  We're supposed to rejoice for having been saved! 
Not to go moping around on lenten season, re-enacting the sufferings of Christ, and in some countries celebrating the hanging of Judas - whom we should actually feel sorry for, for having fallen to temptation, regretting his actions  and taking his own life.  Imagine how he must've felt when he realized what he'd done?

The Catholic obsession with the dead Christ (I remember the statue of a dead Christ lying down in a sepulcher, a dead Christ cradled by Mary, a dead Christ still hanging on the cross) - when Christ's Resurrection is supposed to be a triumph over death!  Ever seen a Catholic procession on Good Friday?  All the various saints on floats?  All the candles, and the lamenting songs in latin? 

Quote
I as a Latin Rite adherant always read the Bible and have for many years now. That's what I seem to see in people who leave the Latin Rite, they never opened the Bible before, but now they do. I wonder why.

And when they open the Bible, it's usually because they hunger.  It must mean that the Latin Rite (that word "rite" again) does not feed that hunger. 

All the eye-candy spectacles of rites and rituals doesn't offer much.  We need BREAD!  The real BREAD.


 
Quote
But you must remember  that what you have now is just another interpretation of the Holy Scriptures, that of the SDA, Baptist,  and this Charles Price person.

Oh?  Let's compare notes.  Here's one: John 14:6 (KJV)
6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

What does your Catholic Bible say on John 14:6?
 
 
 
Quote
Who is right, the SDA people, the Baptists, or your personal interpretation? Who has the right version of the Eucharist, Reconcilliation, the Christian worship service?

The one who adheres to the teachings in the Bible!  That's the one that's right! 

I guess you know you've found God when you feel that kind of peace deep inside.  When you "feel" and "hear" Him.  That personal connection with Christ is lost to most Catholics because they don't concentrate on Christ!

 
Quote
Have you ever read the Early Fathers of the Church and what they thought about all things regarding Christ? How did the faithful worship in the year 100? St Justin Martyr writes about this. Who deceided what should be included in the New Testament canon? This was deceided by the early Bishops at  the different councils they held and all Christendom followed their lead - for hundreds upon hundreds of years.

The early fathers of the Church may've been on the right track.  The Catholic church that I grew up with however - and the current one - have deviated from that track.

 
Quote
Yes, as a Catholic you never opened your Bible - what a shame. Now, you are a more sincere follower of Christ, but like others who have left orthodoxy, you never gave the Latin Rite a chance and suddenly everything is wrong with it. If you read the Early Fathers of the Church, you just might find some surprising things.

Most of the rabid people I debate with are former Catholics who not only are so angry, but they all seem to have an ax to grind against that church - and they turned their backs on God because of it!

You know the right church by the fruits it yields.
« Last Edit: Wed Sep 26, 2012 - 09:53:08 by betsy »

Offline betsy

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 901
  • Manna: 31
  • (T)ogether (E)veryone (A)chieves (M)ore
Re: Catholic curious about Baptist faith
« Reply #46 on: Wed Sep 26, 2012 - 08:02:27 »
I just found this article, "IS THE ROSARY BIBLE-BASED?" and I'd like to comment on it.

Quote
Many Evangelicals don't see the point of the Rosary and others feel it is blasphemous. I was listening to the famous Evangelical Pastor, Chuck Swindoll:

I was on an airplane where there was a lot of turnbulance, and a lady was clutching her beads like they were going to save her!

I find it remarkable that someone can be a pastor for 50 years, preach against the Rosary on national radio, and not take 15 minutes to learn the basics of what the Catholic Church has to say about the Rosary. This is why it's best to learn about the Catholic Church from Catholics, rather than TV Evangelists

Rosary beads are simply a tool that helps us remember God. An Evangelical woman on that plane might be reciting "How Great thou Art."


The woman clutches it like a talisman!  I did the same thing riding in a plane!
Why do we need a "tool" to hold help us remember God? 

If one needs something tangible to remind you of God - there must be a big dis-connect right there!  ::smile::

All you need to do is to look around you and see His creation to remind you of God !  He gave us the general revelation!


Quote
Many Evangelicals think the Rosary is "all about Mary." The Rosary is actually mostly about Jesus. Almost 90% of the Rosary is directly from the Bible. The rest is from early Christians. Calculations of the percentages are here.


"Mostly about Jesus", is not good enough!  It should be ALL ABOUT JESUS! 100% to God, ONLY!

The prayers that Jesus prayed did not include praying to the dead prophets from the Old Testament in any way to reach out to God.  There was no intercession petition.  He prayed DIRECTLY to God.  God did not share the stage with Abraham or Elijah when Jesus prayed to Him!

Mention of percentages remind me somehow of the Occupy Movement.  That 1% counts - go ask them!  ::giggle::

Quote
Martin Luther said "There can be no doubt that the Virgin Mary is in heaven" (Sermon, September 1, 1522). He talked to her in the first person "No woman is like you. You are more than Eve or Sarah, blessed above all nobility, wisdom, and sanctity." (Sermon, Feast of the Visitation, 1537).


She is all that, being the mother of Jesus.  MLuther is stating an opinion.
But the big question is....Did Jesus instruct us to pray to her?  Did He say she will intercede for us in lieu of Him?

Quote
The vocal part of the Rosary has prayers straight to Jesus. (see below) Even the "Hail Mary" is not a prayer to Mary. The Catechism calls the Rosary a "Marian Prayer." That is because we are asking Mary to Pray for us. She is interceding the same way a pastor might pray for you or me. We think she is a kicking prayer warrior. Even better than Evangelical pastors.


Go see John 14:6.  What does that say?
Why not focus on Jesus instead?

Quote
The Rosary says "Pray for us sinners." I have no problem asking Mary to pray for me, I think she is quite good at it. If she is in heaven like Martin Luther said, then she is a serious prayer warrior.


But it's not about you - whether you have a problem with it or not.  It is about obedience to God.


Quote
Many of the beautiful traditional Protestant hymns are repetitious. The repetition of "Praise God" during free form worship in Evangelical Assemblies is repetitive. Even the angels are eternally in the presence of God repeating "Holy, Holy, Holy (Rev 4:8). This is not empty nor pagan is it? It pleases God. When I do the Rosary, I'm sincere. I'm saying very meaningful prayers that come from Scripture. I think this makes Jesus immensely happy and He has given me the experience of his love consistently during the Rosary to prove it.


When a Protestant says, "Praise the Lord" or "Praise God....," we do not praise Mary or anyone along with Him.  IT is directed solely to God alone!  He doesn't share any space with any one or any thing! 

That's the big difference!

Well, that's the gist of it all.  The article weaves around trying to find justification or excuse for fingering beads and repeatedly praising Mary as he prays to God.....but it all boils down to the same thing as explained above.

For the complete article:
http://catholicbridge.com/catholic/mary_rosary.php
« Last Edit: Wed Sep 26, 2012 - 08:07:30 by betsy »

Offline betsy

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 901
  • Manna: 31
  • (T)ogether (E)veryone (A)chieves (M)ore
Re: Catholic curious about Baptist faith
« Reply #47 on: Wed Sep 26, 2012 - 10:04:25 »
Quote
LadoniaHave you ever read the Early Fathers of the Church and what they thought about all things regarding Christ? How did the faithful worship in the year 100? St Justin Martyr writes about this. Who deceided what should be included in the New Testament canon? This was deceided by the early Bishops at  the different councils they held and all Christendom followed their lead - for hundreds upon hundreds of years.


Trying to find out who gets to decide what should be in the New Testament is really not  significant.  The question is  if your church adheres to the true teachings of Christ.

If let's say your Bible includes that we should be praying to Mary to intercede for us - then clearly that contradicts what Jesus claimed that He is the only way to God.  How can something God says contradict His other quite specific command? 
That also paints Jesus as a liar.  ::frown::

If your Bible includes that it's okay to bow down before statues, clutch beads and elevate Mary to almost if not the equal stature of Christ - then clearly that contradicts God's most important command about idolatry and worshipping others.   How can something God says contradict His own quite specific command?

God is supposed to be perfect.  He does not make any mistakes.  That your Bible contradict not one or two but several specific instructions by Christ - it is only logical to conclude that indeed your Bible included other things that shouldn't have been deemed as messages inspired by God for the simple reason that God is perfect, He doesn't make any mistakes - and surely He wouldn't contradict His own command!

Anyway, if the article above is the Catholic Church's best defense or excuse or justification for the rosary - oh boy, need I say any more?  ::smile::
« Last Edit: Wed Sep 26, 2012 - 10:17:28 by betsy »

Offline Ladonia

  • Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 2576
  • Manna: 124
  • Gender: Male
Re: Catholic curious about Baptist faith
« Reply #48 on: Wed Sep 26, 2012 - 10:24:37 »
I just found this article, "IS THE ROSARY BIBLE-BASED?" and I'd like to comment on it.

Quote
Many Evangelicals don't see the point of the Rosary and others feel it is blasphemous. I was listening to the famous Evangelical Pastor, Chuck Swindoll:

I was on an airplane where there was a lot of turnbulance, and a lady was clutching her beads like they were going to save her!

I find it remarkable that someone can be a pastor for 50 years, preach against the Rosary on national radio, and not take 15 minutes to learn the basics of what the Catholic Church has to say about the Rosary. This is why it's best to learn about the Catholic Church from Catholics, rather than TV Evangelists

Rosary beads are simply a tool that helps us remember God. An Evangelical woman on that plane might be reciting "How Great thou Art."


The woman clutches it like a talisman!  I did the same thing riding in a plane!
Why do we need a "tool" to hold help us remember God? 

If one needs something tangible to remind you of God - there must be a big dis-connect right there!  ::smile::

All you need to do is to look around you and see His creation to remind you of God !  He gave us the general revelation!


Quote
Many Evangelicals think the Rosary is "all about Mary." The Rosary is actually mostly about Jesus. Almost 90% of the Rosary is directly from the Bible. The rest is from early Christians. Calculations of the percentages are here.


"Mostly about Jesus", is not good enough!  It should be ALL ABOUT JESUS! 100% to God, ONLY!

The prayers that Jesus prayed did not include praying to the dead prophets from the Old Testament in any way to reach out to God.  There was no intercession petition.  He prayed DIRECTLY to God.  God did not share the stage with Abraham or Elijah when Jesus prayed to Him!

Mention of percentages remind me somehow of the Occupy Movement.  That 1% counts - go ask them!  ::giggle::

Quote
Martin Luther said "There can be no doubt that the Virgin Mary is in heaven" (Sermon, September 1, 1522). He talked to her in the first person "No woman is like you. You are more than Eve or Sarah, blessed above all nobility, wisdom, and sanctity." (Sermon, Feast of the Visitation, 1537).


She is all that, being the mother of Jesus.  MLuther is stating an opinion.
But the big question is....Did Jesus instruct us to pray to her?  Did He say she will intercede for us in lieu of Him?

Quote
The vocal part of the Rosary has prayers straight to Jesus. (see below) Even the "Hail Mary" is not a prayer to Mary. The Catechism calls the Rosary a "Marian Prayer." That is because we are asking Mary to Pray for us. She is interceding the same way a pastor might pray for you or me. We think she is a kicking prayer warrior. Even better than Evangelical pastors.


Go see John 14:6.  What does that say?
Why not focus on Jesus instead?

Quote
The Rosary says "Pray for us sinners." I have no problem asking Mary to pray for me, I think she is quite good at it. If she is in heaven like Martin Luther said, then she is a serious prayer warrior.


But it's not about you - whether you have a problem with it or not.  It is about obedience to God.


Quote
Many of the beautiful traditional Protestant hymns are repetitious. The repetition of "Praise God" during free form worship in Evangelical Assemblies is repetitive. Even the angels are eternally in the presence of God repeating "Holy, Holy, Holy (Rev 4:8). This is not empty nor pagan is it? It pleases God. When I do the Rosary, I'm sincere. I'm saying very meaningful prayers that come from Scripture. I think this makes Jesus immensely happy and He has given me the experience of his love consistently during the Rosary to prove it.


When a Protestant says, "Praise the Lord" or "Praise God....," we do not praise Mary or anyone along with Him.  IT is directed solely to God alone!  He doesn't share any space with any one or any thing! 

That's the big difference!

Well, that's the gist of it all.  The article weaves around trying to find justification or excuse for fingering beads and repeatedly praising Mary as he prays to God.....but it all boils down to the same thing as explained above.

For the complete article:
http://catholicbridge.com/catholic/mary_rosary.php

 
Wow, you sure have some fixation on Mary and the Rosary - as your Dad seemed to do. I personally don't have it. The Church teaches what it teaches about Mary, taking it's cue from the Scriptures. No one is required to pray the rosary, but I can see the value of it's various aspects. I personally have my focus on Christ, not the Blessed Mother or the Saints.
 
The fact is, your present theology has it's faults also. One Baptist denomination that sees things differently than another for example. The rejection of much of what the Early Church Fathers believed i.e. the "Real Presence" of Christ in the Holy Eucharist, and a different worship service than what was practiced back then as described by St Justin Martyr, which coincidentally mirrors the Mass we have today almost to a "T", to name a few. i could go on and on.
 
And still reading the KJV when sholars have found so much more information for more secure translations in the interveining years? And of course, the Bible that is not complete anymore - all on account of one man.
 
And the Crucifixion. The most momentous thing that has happened to all mankind and you want to just shove it under the rug, just forget about it, it's too gory ( or some such thing). We are commanded to remember it, to meditate upon it,  this sacrifice on Calvary, the shedding of the Blood of the Lamb. There is no Resurrection without the Crucifixion!
 
I have always found it ironic that even with the great schism between East and West anound 1045, our Eastern brothers still held true to the sacramental life, seeing them as a proper way to live our lives and praise God.
 
But you have found a new way, a way with so many interpretations, so many sects. How are you able to fiqure out which one is right?

Offline Ladonia

  • Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 2576
  • Manna: 124
  • Gender: Male
Re: Catholic curious about Baptist faith
« Reply #49 on: Wed Sep 26, 2012 - 10:53:22 »
Quote
LadoniaHave you ever read the Early Fathers of the Church and what they thought about all things regarding Christ? How did the faithful worship in the year 100? St Justin Martyr writes about this. Who deceided what should be included in the New Testament canon? This was deceided by the early Bishops at  the different councils they held and all Christendom followed their lead - for hundreds upon hundreds of years.


Trying to find out who gets to decide what should be in the New Testament is really not  significant.  The question is  if your church adheres to the true teachings of Christ.

If let's say your Bible includes that we should be praying to Mary to intercede for us - then clearly that contradicts what Jesus claimed that He is the only way to God.  How can something God says contradict His other quite specific command? 
That also paints Jesus as a liar.  ::frown::

If your Bible includes that it's okay to bow down before statues, clutch beads and elevate Mary to almost if not the equal stature of Christ - then clearly that contradicts God's most important command about idolatry and worshipping others.   How can something God says contradict His own quite specific command?

God is supposed to be perfect.  He does not make any mistakes.  That your Bible contradict not one or two but several specific instructions by Christ - it is only logical to conclude that indeed your Bible included other things that shouldn't have been deemed as messages inspired by God for the simple reason that God is perfect, He doesn't make any mistakes - and surely He wouldn't contradict His own command!

Anyway, if the article above is the Catholic Church's best defense or excuse or justification for the rosary - oh boy, need I say any more?  ::smile::

I'm sorry, but I belive it is significant as to what the Early Church Fathers believed about Christianity. It was they who decided things as to the Canon, it was they who formulated the  concept of the Trinity etc, etc. This set the stage for all of us, taking off from the testimony of the Apostles, building upon it.
 
It's not  about what is in my Bible or your Bible, it's about interpretation and who had the power to do this. Christ gave this power to the church which He instituted here on earth, via the concept of "Apostolic Succession". The power to "bind and loose". (I'm sure you've heard of this term.)
 
So, there is no contradiction with the Bible when the Church says what it says, and teaches what it teaches. It' one Universal (Catholic) Church, just what Christ wanted to establish. It's all in the Scriptures.

Lively Stone

  • Guest
Re: Catholic curious about Baptist faith
« Reply #50 on: Wed Sep 26, 2012 - 11:58:20 »
It's not  about what is in my Bible or your Bible, it's about interpretation and who had the power to do this. Christ gave this power to the church which He instituted here on earth, via the concept of "Apostolic Succession". The power to "bind and loose". (I'm sure you've heard of this term.)

This is where you leave the narrow road and exit into a ditch.

WE are the Church, and WE have the power of Jesus Christ within us to interpret the Word.
 

Offline Ladonia

  • Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 2576
  • Manna: 124
  • Gender: Male
Re: Catholic curious about Baptist faith
« Reply #51 on: Wed Sep 26, 2012 - 13:47:57 »
It's not  about what is in my Bible or your Bible, it's about interpretation and who had the power to do this. Christ gave this power to the church which He instituted here on earth, via the concept of "Apostolic Succession". The power to "bind and loose". (I'm sure you've heard of this term.)

This is where you leave the narrow road and exit into a ditch.

WE are the Church, and WE have the power of Jesus Christ within us to interpret the Word.
 


Once again, you mean mis-interpret the Word. Yep, everyone with a different take on things - sure.

Lively Stone

  • Guest
Re: Catholic curious about Baptist faith
« Reply #52 on: Wed Sep 26, 2012 - 17:57:14 »
It's not  about what is in my Bible or your Bible, it's about interpretation and who had the power to do this. Christ gave this power to the church which He instituted here on earth, via the concept of "Apostolic Succession". The power to "bind and loose". (I'm sure you've heard of this term.)

This is where you leave the narrow road and exit into a ditch.

WE are the Church, and WE have the power of Jesus Christ within us to interpret the Word.
 


Once again, you mean mis-interpret the Word. Yep, everyone with a different take on things - sure.

I haven't misinterpreted the scriptures. Holy Spirit opens the spiritual eyes of people to the truth of what He is saying. He doesn't give divergent interpretations. When you follow after a man-made religion, with man-made doctrines, and man-made expectations of religious behaviour, you are not following after the word, allowing a hindrance to spiritual understanding. There is something missing in almost everything you communicate concerning faith---and the reason is religiosity,  which makes much of the word of God to none effect.

Offline Ladonia

  • Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 2576
  • Manna: 124
  • Gender: Male
Re: Catholic curious about Baptist faith
« Reply #53 on: Wed Sep 26, 2012 - 22:37:59 »
It's not  about what is in my Bible or your Bible, it's about interpretation and who had the power to do this. Christ gave this power to the church which He instituted here on earth, via the concept of "Apostolic Succession". The power to "bind and loose". (I'm sure you've heard of this term.)

This is where you leave the narrow road and exit into a ditch.

WE are the Church, and WE have the power of Jesus Christ within us to interpret the Word.
 


Once again, you mean mis-interpret the Word. Yep, everyone with a different take on things - sure.

I haven't misinterpreted the scriptures. Holy Spirit opens the spiritual eyes of people to the truth of what He is saying. He doesn't give divergent interpretations. When you follow after a man-made religion, with man-made doctrines, and man-made expectations of religious behaviour, you are not following after the word, allowing a hindrance to spiritual understanding. There is something missing in almost everything you communicate concerning faith---and the reason is religiosity,  which makes much of the word of God to none effect.

Sure, sure, sure you have. You do it all the time, so much so.  But you've  got it all together, I understand. The rest of us peon's are just out here flailing. Nobody knows knows it all like Lively Stone. Not the Catholics, the Baptists, the Lutherens, the Greek Orthodox, Russian Orthodox, the Monks in the monestaries, the Nuns in the convents, no one. Nighty, night!. ::sleepingsoundly::
« Last Edit: Wed Sep 26, 2012 - 22:41:11 by Ladonia »

Lively Stone

  • Guest
Re: Catholic curious about Baptist faith
« Reply #54 on: Wed Sep 26, 2012 - 23:10:36 »
It's not  about what is in my Bible or your Bible, it's about interpretation and who had the power to do this. Christ gave this power to the church which He instituted here on earth, via the concept of "Apostolic Succession". The power to "bind and loose". (I'm sure you've heard of this term.)

This is where you leave the narrow road and exit into a ditch.

WE are the Church, and WE have the power of Jesus Christ within us to interpret the Word.
 


Once again, you mean mis-interpret the Word. Yep, everyone with a different take on things - sure.

I haven't misinterpreted the scriptures. Holy Spirit opens the spiritual eyes of people to the truth of what He is saying. He doesn't give divergent interpretations. When you follow after a man-made religion, with man-made doctrines, and man-made expectations of religious behaviour, you are not following after the word, allowing a hindrance to spiritual understanding. There is something missing in almost everything you communicate concerning faith---and the reason is religiosity,  which makes much of the word of God to none effect.

Sure, sure, sure you have. You do it all the time, so much so.  But you've  got it all together, I understand. The rest of us peon's are just out here flailing. Nobody knows knows it all like Lively Stone. Not the Catholics, the Baptists, the Lutherens, the Greek Orthodox, Russian Orthodox, the Monks in the monestaries, the Nuns in the convents, no one. Nighty, night!. ::sleepingsoundly::

Yes, I have got this part of my spiritual walk together---not because of anything in myself, but because of the grace of God who teaches me through His word. Millions of us believers do not disagree on these matters, but there are certain groups who do, and why is that? Catholics lean heavily on the Magisterium---fallible men's teachings based on  their own understanding ...and rules! That is error number one.

Having an encounter with the living Jesus is all we need. By His Spirit, He will free us of the hold of the teachings of men and the trappings of religion. Only He can show you the true interpretation of all scripture, if you allow Holy Spirit to show you, rather than read the bible with your own mind and its kind of understanding.

Offline Ladonia

  • Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 2576
  • Manna: 124
  • Gender: Male
Re: Catholic curious about Baptist faith
« Reply #55 on: Wed Sep 26, 2012 - 23:50:19 »
It's not  about what is in my Bible or your Bible, it's about interpretation and who had the power to do this. Christ gave this power to the church which He instituted here on earth, via the concept of "Apostolic Succession". The power to "bind and loose". (I'm sure you've heard of this term.)

This is where you leave the narrow road and exit into a ditch.

WE are the Church, and WE have the power of Jesus Christ within us to interpret the Word.
 


Once again, you mean mis-interpret the Word. Yep, everyone with a different take on things - sure.

I haven't misinterpreted the scriptures. Holy Spirit opens the spiritual eyes of people to the truth of what He is saying. He doesn't give divergent interpretations. When you follow after a man-made religion, with man-made doctrines, and man-made expectations of religious behaviour, you are not following after the word, allowing a hindrance to spiritual understanding. There is something missing in almost everything you communicate concerning faith---and the reason is religiosity,  which makes much of the word of God to none effect.

Sure, sure, sure you have. You do it all the time, so much so.  But you've  got it all together, I understand. The rest of us peon's are just out here flailing. Nobody knows knows it all like Lively Stone. Not the Catholics, the Baptists, the Lutherens, the Greek Orthodox, Russian Orthodox, the Monks in the monestaries, the Nuns in the convents, no one. Nighty, night!. ::sleepingsoundly::

Yes, I have got this part of my spiritual walk together---not because of anything in myself, but because of the grace of God who teaches me through His word. Millions of us believers do not disagree on these matters, but there are certain groups who do, and why is that? Catholics lean heavily on the Magisterium---fallible men's teachings based on  their own understanding ...and rules! That is error number one.

Having an encounter with the living Jesus is all we need. By His Spirit, He will free us of the hold of the teachings of men and the trappings of religion. Only He can show you the true interpretation of all scripture, if you allow Holy Spirit to show you, rather than read the bible with your own mind and its kind of understanding.

That's right, I do not read the Bible with my own mind. The Holy Spirit guides me, and after I read it I look to his Church, which is also guided by the Holy Spirit and two millenia of understanding to get the truth.
 
As I've said before, you are the one who follows mens teachings, those that deviate so much from traditional Christianity. The Early Church Fathers? Aw, just forget about them - they didn't know anything. They got it all wrong. The complete Bible as codified by them? Throw out some books as they were wrong about that too.

Lively Stone

  • Guest
Re: Catholic curious about Baptist faith
« Reply #56 on: Wed Sep 26, 2012 - 23:55:45 »
It's not  about what is in my Bible or your Bible, it's about interpretation and who had the power to do this. Christ gave this power to the church which He instituted here on earth, via the concept of "Apostolic Succession". The power to "bind and loose". (I'm sure you've heard of this term.)

This is where you leave the narrow road and exit into a ditch.

WE are the Church, and WE have the power of Jesus Christ within us to interpret the Word.
 


Once again, you mean mis-interpret the Word. Yep, everyone with a different take on things - sure.

I haven't misinterpreted the scriptures. Holy Spirit opens the spiritual eyes of people to the truth of what He is saying. He doesn't give divergent interpretations. When you follow after a man-made religion, with man-made doctrines, and man-made expectations of religious behaviour, you are not following after the word, allowing a hindrance to spiritual understanding. There is something missing in almost everything you communicate concerning faith---and the reason is religiosity,  which makes much of the word of God to none effect.

Sure, sure, sure you have. You do it all the time, so much so.  But you've  got it all together, I understand. The rest of us peon's are just out here flailing. Nobody knows knows it all like Lively Stone. Not the Catholics, the Baptists, the Lutherens, the Greek Orthodox, Russian Orthodox, the Monks in the monestaries, the Nuns in the convents, no one. Nighty, night!. ::sleepingsoundly::

Yes, I have got this part of my spiritual walk together---not because of anything in myself, but because of the grace of God who teaches me through His word. Millions of us believers do not disagree on these matters, but there are certain groups who do, and why is that? Catholics lean heavily on the Magisterium---fallible men's teachings based on  their own understanding ...and rules! That is error number one.

Having an encounter with the living Jesus is all we need. By His Spirit, He will free us of the hold of the teachings of men and the trappings of religion. Only He can show you the true interpretation of all scripture, if you allow Holy Spirit to show you, rather than read the bible with your own mind and its kind of understanding.

That's right, I do not read the Bible with my own mind. The Holy Spirit guides me, and after I read it I look to his Church, which is also guided by the Holy Spirit and two millenia of understanding to get the truth.
 
As I've said before, you are the one who follows mens teachings, those that deviate so much from traditional Christianity. The Early Church Fathers? Aw, just forget about them - they didn't know anything. They got it all wrong. The complete Bible as codified by them? Throw out some books as they were wrong about that too.

Looking to the Church is not what God tells us to do. He tells us to submit to anointed leaders and teachers He has placed in our lives, but we are the Church. There is no such organization that He has established apart from His own people to guide and direct each other according to His special gifting in the things of God.

You appear to be blinded by your own dogma, following only after what men have laid down for you to believe.

God's word alone, enlightened to your spirit by Holy Spirit, should be your spiritual food and guide.

Offline Ladonia

  • Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 2576
  • Manna: 124
  • Gender: Male
Re: Catholic curious about Baptist faith
« Reply #57 on: Thu Sep 27, 2012 - 00:40:42 »
It's not  about what is in my Bible or your Bible, it's about interpretation and who had the power to do this. Christ gave this power to the church which He instituted here on earth, via the concept of "Apostolic Succession". The power to "bind and loose". (I'm sure you've heard of this term.)


This is where you leave the narrow road and exit into a ditch.

WE are the Church, and WE have the power of Jesus Christ within us to interpret the Word.
 


 
Once again, you mean mis-interpret the Word. Yep, everyone with a different take on things - sure.


I haven't misinterpreted the scriptures. Holy Spirit opens the spiritual eyes of people to the truth of what He is saying. He doesn't give divergent interpretations. When you follow after a man-made religion, with man-made doctrines, and man-made expectations of religious behaviour, you are not following after the word, allowing a hindrance to spiritual understanding. There is something missing in almost everything you communicate concerning faith---and the reason is religiosity,  which makes much of the word of God to none effect.

 
Sure, sure, sure you have. You do it all the time, so much so.  But you've  got it all together, I understand. The rest of us peon's are just out here flailing. Nobody knows knows it all like Lively Stone. Not the Catholics, the Baptists, the Lutherens, the Greek Orthodox, Russian Orthodox, the Monks in the monestaries, the Nuns in the convents, no one. Nighty, night!. ::sleepingsoundly::


Yes, I have got this part of my spiritual walk together---not because of anything in myself, but because of the grace of God who teaches me through His word. Millions of us believers do not disagree on these matters, but there are certain groups who do, and why is that? Catholics lean heavily on the Magisterium---fallible men's teachings based on  their own understanding ...and rules! That is error number one.

Having an encounter with the living Jesus is all we need. By His Spirit, He will free us of the hold of the teachings of men and the trappings of religion. Only He can show you the true interpretation of all scripture, if you allow Holy Spirit to show you, rather than read the bible with your own mind and its kind of understanding.

 
That's right, I do not read the Bible with my own mind. The Holy Spirit guides me, and after I read it I look to his Church, which is also guided by the Holy Spirit and two millenia of understanding to get the truth.
 
As I've said before, you are the one who follows mens teachings, those that deviate so much from traditional Christianity. The Early Church Fathers? Aw, just forget about them - they didn't know anything. They got it all wrong. The complete Bible as codified by them? Throw out some books as they were wrong about that too.


Looking to the Church is not what God tells us to do. He tells us to submit to anointed leaders and teachers He has placed in our lives, but we are the Church. There is no such organization that He has established apart from His own people to guide and direct each other according to His special gifting in the things of God.

You appear to be blinded by your own dogma, following only after what men have laid down for you to believe.

God's word alone, enlightened to your spirit by Holy Spirit, should be your spiritual food and guide.

 
Matt 16 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
 
"Not prevail against it" are the key words. A church, an entity. If Our Lord had meant people he would have said: "Not prevail against them", or, "Not prevail against the people". You misinterpret again.

Offline betsy

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 901
  • Manna: 31
  • (T)ogether (E)veryone (A)chieves (M)ore
Re: Catholic curious about Baptist faith
« Reply #58 on: Thu Sep 27, 2012 - 05:24:02 »
Quote
Ladonia
Wow, you sure have some fixation on Mary and the Rosary - as your Dad seemed to do. I personally don't have it.

Whether you and I  have a fixation on Mary and the rosary is not thew issue.  It doesn't change the fact that Mary and the rosary are big part of the Catholic TRADITION that directly disobey and contradict the message of God.

Jesus says, He is the Only way to God.  The Catholic Church says, "oh yes there is another way - through Mary!"

Your church is saying Jesus is a liar.


Offline winsome

  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5612
  • Manna: 94
  • Gender: Male
Re: Catholic curious about Baptist faith
« Reply #59 on: Thu Sep 27, 2012 - 07:45:05 »

Furthermore, you mentioned about the "mysteries."  Joyful, Sorrowful and Glorious.  Thanks for reminding me.....but why do they  call them "mysteries?"  Can you please explain that to me?
 Do they mean "mysteries" in the literal sense? 
Because if that's the case,  why is it a "mystery" to a Christian that Jesus was born from a virgin, suffered and died on the cross, and finally was resurrected?  That was the execution of God's plan - to give us a chance at salvation! Christ explained why it had to happen. The apostles who witnessed it all explained how and why it all happened.  There is no longer any mystery about it - unless there is still a nagging question about the validity of it or the purpose of it, don't you think so? What's "mysterious" about it if one believes?  God gave the answer!  It's all been explained

Mysteries in theological terms are those things that how ever much we ponder on them, however much we think we understand them, there is always more to learn and understand.

We can never fully understand God. We can never fully understand Jesus and all that he did for us.

Offline winsome

  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5612
  • Manna: 94
  • Gender: Male
Re: Catholic curious about Baptist faith
« Reply #60 on: Thu Sep 27, 2012 - 07:50:27 »
Im not sure If anyone here can tell me the main beliefs that differ between catholics and baptists, I might not have found all the differences in my research.

  I was born and raised a Catholic, and I strayed from God.  When I finally decided to come back to God, I've made it a point to read and study the Bible - since if I want to please God, I should know what He wants from me.  My first reading of the Bible showed me things that I used to do as a Catholic are actually against the teachings of the Bible.
 
1.  Praying to Mary and saints to intercede for us.  (Only Jesus is the way to God)  This also is a stumbling block in cultivating and nurturing a personal relationship with Christ.  PERSONAL RELATIONSHIP WITH CHRIST.  To me, that's the key!

2.  Idolatry  (I was guilty of that too - wiping handkerchief on statues of Mary or saints praying some "blessings" or "miraculous interventions" would be given by said saint).  The focus is taken away from GOD!

3.  Repetitious prayers - like the rosary (which is actually glorifying and praying to Mary).

4.  Vatican's handling of the child molestation cases  (how many Christians felt betrayed and got disillusioned with Christianity over this?)
Also, ex-Christians I've encountered  (most of whom seems to be ex-Catholics) are very angry non-believers - more so than your regular atheist!  My own much-older sister is one and she abandoned Christ.  She tried to convince me to do the same.  Hooked up with new-age!

5.  Too much rituals and pageantry which makes it a spectacle that takes away from the focus on God.

6.  Confession and "penalties" for sins - the emphasis is more on the man-made "penalties" to pray how many Our Father and Holy Mary....but not on the true meaning of repentance!

7.  When Christ was blasting away at the Pharisees, somehow I couldn't help but equate it to Catholicism.

Now, I'm officially a Baptist.....but denomination is not really important to me.   I also listen to 7th Day Adventist. I also listen to Charles Price from Living Truth Ministry (which was actually instrumental in my conversion) - the way he explains verses makes it seem so easy to read and understand the Bible, that I ended up opening the Bible myself!  It was also this ministry that advised me to look for a local church to belong to - so I can worship and glorify God with a group.

 In my view, reading and understanding of the Bible is very, very important.  It becomes a compass - you'll know when someone is giving the wrong message, or is getting carried away and start imposing their own man-made laws, or being swayed by things of men - like political correctness as an example.  Once a church starts twisting the words in the Bible to suit what society dictates - it becomes a false church.

The Baptist have accepted women as preachers - I just stay away from the church on those times when I know a woman is preaching.
 Have to keep up vigilance that we not deviate from the Bible.  Also I'm not into making the church as a social thing for the congregation.  You can get so carried away with attending meeting for this group or meeting for that group (that you don't have any time to do other things that truly matter).  It would be one thing if we invite the poor or those in halfway houses or those who are troubled, etc.., to come to a dinner or movie (that shows Christian films) - we should be reaching out more.
 
 
 

Why does a thread that died 7 months previously get resurrected by an anti-catholic tirade in a Baptist forum?

Beats me.  ::frown::

I'm not staying in this thread. There are enough anti-catholic rants in the Catholic forum.

Lively Stone

  • Guest
Re: Catholic curious about Baptist faith
« Reply #61 on: Thu Sep 27, 2012 - 08:49:08 »
It's not  about what is in my Bible or your Bible, it's about interpretation and who had the power to do this. Christ gave this power to the church which He instituted here on earth, via the concept of "Apostolic Succession". The power to "bind and loose". (I'm sure you've heard of this term.)


This is where you leave the narrow road and exit into a ditch.

WE are the Church, and WE have the power of Jesus Christ within us to interpret the Word.
 


 
Once again, you mean mis-interpret the Word. Yep, everyone with a different take on things - sure.


I haven't misinterpreted the scriptures. Holy Spirit opens the spiritual eyes of people to the truth of what He is saying. He doesn't give divergent interpretations. When you follow after a man-made religion, with man-made doctrines, and man-made expectations of religious behaviour, you are not following after the word, allowing a hindrance to spiritual understanding. There is something missing in almost everything you communicate concerning faith---and the reason is religiosity,  which makes much of the word of God to none effect.

 
Sure, sure, sure you have. You do it all the time, so much so.  But you've  got it all together, I understand. The rest of us peon's are just out here flailing. Nobody knows knows it all like Lively Stone. Not the Catholics, the Baptists, the Lutherens, the Greek Orthodox, Russian Orthodox, the Monks in the monestaries, the Nuns in the convents, no one. Nighty, night!. ::sleepingsoundly::


Yes, I have got this part of my spiritual walk together---not because of anything in myself, but because of the grace of God who teaches me through His word. Millions of us believers do not disagree on these matters, but there are certain groups who do, and why is that? Catholics lean heavily on the Magisterium---fallible men's teachings based on  their own understanding ...and rules! That is error number one.

Having an encounter with the living Jesus is all we need. By His Spirit, He will free us of the hold of the teachings of men and the trappings of religion. Only He can show you the true interpretation of all scripture, if you allow Holy Spirit to show you, rather than read the bible with your own mind and its kind of understanding.

 
That's right, I do not read the Bible with my own mind. The Holy Spirit guides me, and after I read it I look to his Church, which is also guided by the Holy Spirit and two millenia of understanding to get the truth.
 
As I've said before, you are the one who follows mens teachings, those that deviate so much from traditional Christianity. The Early Church Fathers? Aw, just forget about them - they didn't know anything. They got it all wrong. The complete Bible as codified by them? Throw out some books as they were wrong about that too.


Looking to the Church is not what God tells us to do. He tells us to submit to anointed leaders and teachers He has placed in our lives, but we are the Church. There is no such organization that He has established apart from His own people to guide and direct each other according to His special gifting in the things of God.

You appear to be blinded by your own dogma, following only after what men have laid down for you to believe.

God's word alone, enlightened to your spirit by Holy Spirit, should be your spiritual food and guide.

 
Matt 16 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
 
"Not prevail against it" are the key words. A church, an entity. If Our Lord had meant people he would have said: "Not prevail against them", or, "Not prevail against the people". You misinterpret again.


The Church is the people of God through Christ. It is not what you have been told. Your teachers' misinterpretation is a major cause of your stumbling.

Offline Ladonia

  • Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 2576
  • Manna: 124
  • Gender: Male
Re: Catholic curious about Baptist faith
« Reply #62 on: Thu Sep 27, 2012 - 10:41:59 »
Quote
Ladonia
Wow, you sure have some fixation on Mary and the Rosary - as your Dad seemed to do. I personally don't have it.

Whether you and I  have a fixation on Mary and the rosary is not thew issue.  It doesn't change the fact that Mary and the rosary are big part of the Catholic TRADITION that directly disobey and contradict the message of God.

Jesus says, He is the Only way to God.  The Catholic Church says, "oh yes there is another way - through Mary!"

Your church is saying Jesus is a liar.



No, it does not teach any such thing. We have Jesus in the Holy Eucharist, you have grape juice and crackers.

Offline Ladonia

  • Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 2576
  • Manna: 124
  • Gender: Male
Re: Catholic curious about Baptist faith
« Reply #63 on: Thu Sep 27, 2012 - 10:42:58 »
It's not  about what is in my Bible or your Bible, it's about interpretation and who had the power to do this. Christ gave this power to the church which He instituted here on earth, via the concept of "Apostolic Succession". The power to "bind and loose". (I'm sure you've heard of this term.)


This is where you leave the narrow road and exit into a ditch.

WE are the Church, and WE have the power of Jesus Christ within us to interpret the Word.
 


 
Once again, you mean mis-interpret the Word. Yep, everyone with a different take on things - sure.


I haven't misinterpreted the scriptures. Holy Spirit opens the spiritual eyes of people to the truth of what He is saying. He doesn't give divergent interpretations. When you follow after a man-made religion, with man-made doctrines, and man-made expectations of religious behaviour, you are not following after the word, allowing a hindrance to spiritual understanding. There is something missing in almost everything you communicate concerning faith---and the reason is religiosity,  which makes much of the word of God to none effect.

 
Sure, sure, sure you have. You do it all the time, so much so.  But you've  got it all together, I understand. The rest of us peon's are just out here flailing. Nobody knows knows it all like Lively Stone. Not the Catholics, the Baptists, the Lutherens, the Greek Orthodox, Russian Orthodox, the Monks in the monestaries, the Nuns in the convents, no one. Nighty, night!. ::sleepingsoundly::


Yes, I have got this part of my spiritual walk together---not because of anything in myself, but because of the grace of God who teaches me through His word. Millions of us believers do not disagree on these matters, but there are certain groups who do, and why is that? Catholics lean heavily on the Magisterium---fallible men's teachings based on  their own understanding ...and rules! That is error number one.

Having an encounter with the living Jesus is all we need. By His Spirit, He will free us of the hold of the teachings of men and the trappings of religion. Only He can show you the true interpretation of all scripture, if you allow Holy Spirit to show you, rather than read the bible with your own mind and its kind of understanding.

 
That's right, I do not read the Bible with my own mind. The Holy Spirit guides me, and after I read it I look to his Church, which is also guided by the Holy Spirit and two millenia of understanding to get the truth.
 
As I've said before, you are the one who follows mens teachings, those that deviate so much from traditional Christianity. The Early Church Fathers? Aw, just forget about them - they didn't know anything. They got it all wrong. The complete Bible as codified by them? Throw out some books as they were wrong about that too.


Looking to the Church is not what God tells us to do. He tells us to submit to anointed leaders and teachers He has placed in our lives, but we are the Church. There is no such organization that He has established apart from His own people to guide and direct each other according to His special gifting in the things of God.

You appear to be blinded by your own dogma, following only after what men have laid down for you to believe.

God's word alone, enlightened to your spirit by Holy Spirit, should be your spiritual food and guide.

 
Matt 16 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
 
"Not prevail against it" are the key words. A church, an entity. If Our Lord had meant people he would have said: "Not prevail against them", or, "Not prevail against the people". You misinterpret again.


The Church is the people of God through Christ. It is not what you have been told. Your teachers' misinterpretation is a major cause of your stumbling.

 
You are wrong again.

Lively Stone

  • Guest
Re: Catholic curious about Baptist faith
« Reply #64 on: Thu Sep 27, 2012 - 10:44:58 »
It's not  about what is in my Bible or your Bible, it's about interpretation and who had the power to do this. Christ gave this power to the church which He instituted here on earth, via the concept of "Apostolic Succession". The power to "bind and loose". (I'm sure you've heard of this term.)


This is where you leave the narrow road and exit into a ditch.

WE are the Church, and WE have the power of Jesus Christ within us to interpret the Word.
 


 
Once again, you mean mis-interpret the Word. Yep, everyone with a different take on things - sure.


I haven't misinterpreted the scriptures. Holy Spirit opens the spiritual eyes of people to the truth of what He is saying. He doesn't give divergent interpretations. When you follow after a man-made religion, with man-made doctrines, and man-made expectations of religious behaviour, you are not following after the word, allowing a hindrance to spiritual understanding. There is something missing in almost everything you communicate concerning faith---and the reason is religiosity,  which makes much of the word of God to none effect.

 
Sure, sure, sure you have. You do it all the time, so much so.  But you've  got it all together, I understand. The rest of us peon's are just out here flailing. Nobody knows knows it all like Lively Stone. Not the Catholics, the Baptists, the Lutherens, the Greek Orthodox, Russian Orthodox, the Monks in the monestaries, the Nuns in the convents, no one. Nighty, night!. ::sleepingsoundly::


Yes, I have got this part of my spiritual walk together---not because of anything in myself, but because of the grace of God who teaches me through His word. Millions of us believers do not disagree on these matters, but there are certain groups who do, and why is that? Catholics lean heavily on the Magisterium---fallible men's teachings based on  their own understanding ...and rules! That is error number one.

Having an encounter with the living Jesus is all we need. By His Spirit, He will free us of the hold of the teachings of men and the trappings of religion. Only He can show you the true interpretation of all scripture, if you allow Holy Spirit to show you, rather than read the bible with your own mind and its kind of understanding.

 
That's right, I do not read the Bible with my own mind. The Holy Spirit guides me, and after I read it I look to his Church, which is also guided by the Holy Spirit and two millenia of understanding to get the truth.
 
As I've said before, you are the one who follows mens teachings, those that deviate so much from traditional Christianity. The Early Church Fathers? Aw, just forget about them - they didn't know anything. They got it all wrong. The complete Bible as codified by them? Throw out some books as they were wrong about that too.


Looking to the Church is not what God tells us to do. He tells us to submit to anointed leaders and teachers He has placed in our lives, but we are the Church. There is no such organization that He has established apart from His own people to guide and direct each other according to His special gifting in the things of God.

You appear to be blinded by your own dogma, following only after what men have laid down for you to believe.

God's word alone, enlightened to your spirit by Holy Spirit, should be your spiritual food and guide.

 
Matt 16 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
 
"Not prevail against it" are the key words. A church, an entity. If Our Lord had meant people he would have said: "Not prevail against them", or, "Not prevail against the people". You misinterpret again.


The Church is the people of God through Christ. It is not what you have been told. Your teachers' misinterpretation is a major cause of your stumbling.

 
You are wrong again.


Actually, I am spot on.

Offline FireSword

  • Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 2738
  • Manna: 41
  • Gender: Male
Re: Catholic curious about Baptist faith
« Reply #65 on: Thu Sep 27, 2012 - 11:59:59 »
someone said calvin says crucifix of the devil? but not crosses. Sure about this? does not make much sense

Offline stevehut

  • Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 3769
  • Manna: 70
  • Gender: Male
Re: Catholic curious about Baptist faith
« Reply #66 on: Thu Sep 27, 2012 - 12:57:25 »
Sword, check out the Institutes, Chapter 11. Calvin was generally suspicious of icons or relics of any kind.

Offline betsy

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 901
  • Manna: 31
  • (T)ogether (E)veryone (A)chieves (M)ore
Re: Catholic curious about Baptist faith
« Reply #67 on: Thu Sep 27, 2012 - 17:01:57 »
Quote
Ladonia:
 The Church teaches what it teaches about Mary, taking it's cue from the Scriptures.

Taking cue from which part of the Scriptures?

Mary is blessed.  Mary was chosen by God to be the mother of the Messiah.  Just like Abraham and Moses, and a lot others.  There's hardly any mention of Mary in the Bible compared to the prominence of the Apostles!  If she was mentioned at all, most are casual refernce to her.
Aside from the story surrounding the birth of Jesus,  the wedding where Jesus performed His miracle turning water to wine, and when Jesus was dying on the cross - the only other specific segment where-in she was prominently mentioned was when she and her other children came to visit Jesus. 

Quote
Matthew 12 KJV
46 While he yet talked to the people, behold, his mother and his brethren stood without, desiring to speak with him.
 
47 Then one said unto him, Behold, thy mother and thy brethren stand without, desiring to speak with thee.
 
48 But he answered and said unto him that told him, Who is my mother? and who are my brethren?
 
49 And he stretched forth his hand toward his disciples, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren!
 
50 For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.

That message from Jesus clearly doesn't translate that we should pray or worship or glorify Mary, does it?

What does Matthew 12: 46-50 say in the Catholic Bible?


Quote
No one is required to pray the rosary, but I can see the value of it's various aspects. I personally have my focus on Christ, not the Blessed Mother or the Saints.

Whether it's required or not is not the point.  A true Christian Church should not give that option at all.

Anyway, that article tried to downplay the worshipping of Mary......yet there are other activities/worshipping that occurs other than praying the rosary.  What about the novena to the Mother of Perpetual Help?  Christians gather in church and a priest officiates - don't tell me that isn't worshipping and glorifying  If there is extra time other than the Sabbath day to devote to any worshipping - it should be devoted to God!

A fictional story told by our priest in his sermon also painted Mary as having some kind of "power" that she can wield in Heaven.  The story goes like this:  A person died, and he was knocking on heaven's door.  Peter wouldn't let him in since he didn't meet some requirements.  This person always prayed the rosary when he was alive, so Mary decided to take matters into her own hands by opening a window and letting that person in through the window.
The story was supposed to be heartwarming and inspiring - and it was, that's why I still remember it after all this years. 
But if you analyze the message in that story - something is terribly wrong!  The story suggests that Mary committed some kind of rebellion against God by letting that person in heaven anyway, even though he didn't meet the requirements to enter heaven. 

So what is this?  Is the Catholic Church trying to promote the idea that because Mary is the mother of Christ - that she's somehow like a wife to God? 

Is God and Mary the Catholic's equivalent of Zeus and Hera? 
« Last Edit: Thu Sep 27, 2012 - 17:55:09 by betsy »

Offline betsy

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 901
  • Manna: 31
  • (T)ogether (E)veryone (A)chieves (M)ore
Re: Catholic curious about Baptist faith
« Reply #68 on: Thu Sep 27, 2012 - 17:10:02 »
And how ironic!  With all these devotion and prayers and worshipping of Mary - guess what?
 The Catholic Church disobeys Mary! 
 
Mary gave one very important instruction to the servants at the wedding in Cana.  She instructed:

"DO WHATEVER  HE TELLS YOU!"







 
 
« Last Edit: Thu Sep 27, 2012 - 17:13:48 by betsy »

Offline Willie T

  • Minds of moderate caliber ordinarily condemn everything which is beyond their range.
  • Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 2727
  • Manna: 99
  • Gender: Male
  • "Religion is unbelief." Vineyard St.Petersburg, FL
Re: Catholic curious about Baptist faith
« Reply #69 on: Thu Sep 27, 2012 - 17:15:02 »
And how ironic!  With all these devotion and prayers and worshipping of Mary - guess what?
 The Catholic Church disobeys Mary! 
 
Mary gave one very important instruction to the servants at the wedding in Cana.  She instructed:

"DO WHATEVER  HE TELLS YOU!"







 
 
I love it, Betsy!