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Offline grandma dolittle

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Christmas vs pagan traditions.
« on: Tue Dec 11, 2012 - 11:29:35 »
What do you think about Santa at Christmas time?  As children, we all knew the magic of the holiday as Santa and his reigndeer and our excitement on Christmas morning to see what "he " had left us.  Do we teach our children there is no such thing as Santa???? Awwww, they are just children. What would it hurt?  Or do we teach the season is to celebrate Christ's birth and the gifts under the tree are from us because of the love we have for them???? Is the tree pagan too???? Do we tell them Christ was not born on Dec. 25th???

What do you do and why? Is it bibical? How do you celebrate the Lord's birthday? 


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Christmas vs pagan traditions.
« on: Tue Dec 11, 2012 - 11:29:35 »

Offline Willie T

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Re: Christmas vs pagan traditions.
« Reply #1 on: Tue Dec 11, 2012 - 12:13:30 »
We usually have cake and ice cream.

Offline Carey

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Re: Christmas vs pagan traditions.
« Reply #2 on: Tue Dec 11, 2012 - 12:25:27 »
As long as the true meaning of Christmas, that is: a celebration of God giving his only begotten son that whosoever believeth in Him shall not perish but have everlasting life, is at the core, all other considerations are irrelevant.

Looking around from where I sit....

A lovely tree glistens in the corner of our living room, the stockings are hung awaiting Santa's arrival (even though my children are young adults),  Snowmen adorn the mantel telling how many days remain, a nutcracker soldier sits atop the organ, two pointsettas add to the colour, a Santa and Rudolf puppet sit atop vases above the TV behind a large wooden sign cut out to proclaim CHRISTMAS, and lights brighten up the eaves.

However, there are no less than four nativity scenes about, one near life sized lit up on the front lawn.  A Bible sits on one end table, another on the coffee table, Angels sit atop the tree, an advent calender is on display, and Christmas songs of praise play softly in the background.  We will be visiting our church a half dozen times in the next couple of weeks, and my wife and I will play Mary and Joseph in the Childrens' program.

Merry Christmas, ::smile::
Carey.




Offline Carey

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Re: Christmas vs pagan traditions.
« Reply #3 on: Tue Dec 11, 2012 - 12:26:41 »
We usually have cake and ice cream.

 ::frown::

Didn't y'all know there was no ice cream at Christ's birth, shame on ya.

 rofl

Offline MeMyself

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Re: Christmas vs pagan traditions.
« Reply #4 on: Tue Dec 11, 2012 - 12:34:12 »
As long as the true meaning of Christmas, that is: a celebration of God giving his only begotten son that whosoever believeth in Him shall not perish but have everlasting life, is at the core, all other considerations are irrelevant.

Looking around from where I sit....

A lovely tree glistens in the corner of our living room, the stockings are hung awaiting Santa's arrival (even though my children are young adults),  Snowmen adorn the mantel telling how many days remain, a nutcracker soldier sits atop the organ, two pointsettas add to the colour, a Santa and Rudolf puppet sit atop vases above the TV behind a large wooden sign cut out to proclaim CHRISTMAS, and lights brighten up the eaves.

However, there are no less than four nativity scenes about, one near life sized lit up on the front lawn.  A Bible sits on one end table, another on the coffee table, Angels sit atop the tree, an advent calender is on display, and Christmas songs of praise play softly in the background.  We will be visiting our church a half dozen times in the next couple of weeks, and my wife and I will play Mary and Joseph in the Childrens' program.

Merry Christmas, ::smile::
Carey.





  ::santahat::


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Re: Christmas vs pagan traditions.
« Reply #4 on: Tue Dec 11, 2012 - 12:34:12 »



Offline Willie T

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Re: Christmas vs pagan traditions.
« Reply #5 on: Tue Dec 11, 2012 - 12:36:36 »
We usually have cake and ice cream.

 ::frown::

Didn't y'all know there was no ice cream at Christ's birth, shame on ya.

 rofl
Well, no Wise Men, either... but..............

Offline Carey

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Re: Christmas vs pagan traditions.
« Reply #6 on: Tue Dec 11, 2012 - 12:42:08 »
We usually have cake and ice cream.

 ::frown::

Didn't y'all know there was no ice cream at Christ's birth, shame on ya.

 rofl
Well, no Wise Men, either... but..............

Surely you is not insinuating you is a wise man is ya, wise guy maybe....  ::pokingwithstick::

Offline DaveW

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Re: Christmas vs pagan traditions.
« Reply #7 on: Tue Dec 11, 2012 - 12:46:11 »
We usually have cake and ice cream.
Didn't y'all know there was no ice cream at Christ's birth, shame on ya.

And if the "Spring" people are  correct that HE was born during the feast of Unleavened bread (Passover) then there was no cake either. 

Some frosting on Matzah perhaps???

Offline chosenone

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Re: Christmas vs pagan traditions.
« Reply #8 on: Tue Dec 11, 2012 - 12:49:07 »
As long as the true meaning of Christmas, that is: a celebration of God giving his only begotten son that whosoever believeth in Him shall not perish but have everlasting life, is at the core, all other considerations are irrelevant.

Looking around from where I sit....

A lovely tree glistens in the corner of our living room, the stockings are hung awaiting Santa's arrival (even though my children are young adults),  Snowmen adorn the mantel telling how many days remain, a nutcracker soldier sits atop the organ, two pointsettas add to the colour, a Santa and Rudolf puppet sit atop vases above the TV behind a large wooden sign cut out to proclaim CHRISTMAS, and lights brighten up the eaves.

However, there are no less than four nativity scenes about, one near life sized lit up on the front lawn.  A Bible sits on one end table, another on the coffee table, Angels sit atop the tree, an advent calender is on display, and Christmas songs of praise play softly in the background.  We will be visiting our church a half dozen times in the next couple of weeks, and my wife and I will play Mary and Joseph in the Childrens' program.

Merry Christmas, ::smile::
Carey.





Lovely ::nodding:: ::smile::

Offline Willie T

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Re: Christmas vs pagan traditions.
« Reply #9 on: Tue Dec 11, 2012 - 13:18:21 »
Just found a fairly accurate depiction of the birth scene... I think.  Although the manger probably looked nothing like that, and I'm pretty sure Joseph didn't have a bright light in his hand...HERE

Or, try it HERE.
« Last Edit: Tue Dec 11, 2012 - 13:40:45 by Willie T »

Offline Carey

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Re: Christmas vs pagan traditions.
« Reply #10 on: Tue Dec 11, 2012 - 13:31:39 »
Just found a fairly accurate depiction of the birth scene... I think.  Although the manger probably looked nothing like that, and I'm pretty sure Joseph didn't have a bright light in his hand...HERE


Very nice Willie, pretty much how I envision it also.  I can forego the stable, wise men, and camels as inaccurate additions, but it would be nice to see a donkey about. ::smile::

Offline Willie T

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Re: Christmas vs pagan traditions.
« Reply #11 on: Tue Dec 11, 2012 - 13:34:18 »


Very nice Willie, pretty much how I envision it also.  I can forego the stable, wise men, and camels as inaccurate additions, but it would be nice to see a donkey about. ::smile::
Yeah, I just can't go for the Pope's insistance that there weren't any animals there.

Offline chosenone

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Re: Christmas vs pagan traditions.
« Reply #12 on: Tue Dec 11, 2012 - 13:37:45 »


Very nice Willie, pretty much how I envision it also.  I can forego the stable, wise men, and camels as inaccurate additions, but it would be nice to see a donkey about. ::smile::
Yeah, I just can't go for the Pope's insistance that there weren't any animals there.
 

Well he wasnt there so he doesnt know does he,  and after all, it was a manger of hay(for the animals!) that Jesus was laid in. I love it that Jesus first witnesses were animals.

Offline grandma dolittle

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Re: Christmas vs pagan traditions.
« Reply #13 on: Tue Dec 11, 2012 - 17:29:24 »


Very nice Willie, pretty much how I envision it also.  I can forego the stable, wise men, and camels as inaccurate additions, but it would be nice to see a donkey about. ::smile::
Yeah, I just can't go for the Pope's insistance that there weren't any animals there.
 

Well he wasnt there so he doesnt know does he,  and after all, it was a manger of hay(for the animals!) that Jesus was laid in. I love it that Jesus first witnesses were animals.

It is my understanding the temple shepherds kept a lambing stable in the caves and that would probably be where Jesus was born. I doubt a camel showed up until he was several months old when the wise men came to the house his parents had moved into.  I don't know where the pope got the idea  there were no animals. And this shall be a sign unto you; Ye shall find the babe wrapped in swaddling clothes, lying in a manger. Luke 2:12  I wonder what he thinks a manger is????   I have no scripture  to back the cave theory, but study of life at that time, gives the cave creedence.

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Re: Christmas vs pagan traditions.
« Reply #14 on: Wed Dec 12, 2012 - 09:08:12 »
It is my understanding the temple shepherds kept a lambing stable in the caves and that would probably be where Jesus was born. I doubt a camel showed up until he was several months old when the wise men came to the house his parents had moved into.  I don't know where the pope got the idea  there were no animals. And this shall be a sign unto you; Ye shall find the babe wrapped in swaddling clothes, lying in a manger. Luke 2:12  I wonder what he thinks a manger is????   I have no scripture  to back the cave theory, but study of life at that time, gives the cave creedence.
Since Bethlehem is near Jerusalem (presently they abut) but not right in Jerusalem, it is very unlikely that it was used as a stockyard for the Temple.  That would have been closer.

And if the fall people are correct (which I think they are) HE was born during the feast of Sukkot/tabernacles in which case it is very possible he was born in a sukkah.

The word "manger" is φάτνη which means an eating place. (it is also translated 'stall' in Luke 13.15) Interesting since the name of the town was Bethlehem which translated is 'House of Bread.' (or possibly 'House of Life') 

Offline Swiss_Guard

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Re: Christmas vs pagan traditions.
« Reply #15 on: Fri Dec 14, 2012 - 00:13:36 »
What do you think about Santa at Christmas time?  As children, we all knew the magic of the holiday as Santa and his reigndeer and our excitement on Christmas morning to see what "he " had left us.  Do we teach our children there is no such thing as Santa???? Awwww, they are just children. What would it hurt?  Or do we teach the season is to celebrate Christ's birth and the gifts under the tree are from us because of the love we have for them???? Is the tree pagan too???? Do we tell them Christ was not born on Dec. 25th???

What do you do and why? Is it bibical? How do you celebrate the Lord's birthday? 


Well, its not all pagan. "Santa Claus" is a bastardization of the name of an early Christian bishop named Nikolaos  (270 - 343 A.D.), who was remembered for his great kindness to the poor. So the person we now call "Santa Claus" was real--and I'm sure that as a man of God he'd be horrified if he knew his name would one day become a secular icon that is used to push Jesus out of the way.

The tree is of pagan Germanic origin, but I don't see any harm in it as long as it's used as a temporary "monument" to celebrate Christ's birth.



Offline Bro Sam

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Re: Christmas vs pagan traditions.
« Reply #16 on: Fri Dec 14, 2012 - 18:32:25 »
And it came to pass in those days, that there went out a decree from Caesar Augustus, that all the world should be taxed. 2 (And this taxing was first made when Cyrenius was governor of Syria.) 3 And all went to be taxed, every one into his own city. 4 And Joseph also went up from Galilee, out of the city of Nazareth, into Judaea, unto the city of David, which is called Bethlehem; (because he was of the house and lineage of David:) 5 To be taxed with Mary his espoused wife, being great with child. 6 And so it was, that, while they were there, the days were accomplished that she should be delivered. 7 And she brought forth her firstborn son, and wrapped him in swaddling clothes, and laid him in a manger; because there was no room for them in the inn.
Luke 2:1-7 (KJV)

Roman tax time was September 2nd.  Mary great with child --- DAYS were accomplished.  So in a matter of days after Sept 2nd Jesus was born.   Using Daniel's decree one can place the year at 4 BC.   The Feast of Trumpets (used to crown a King) was on Sept 9th that year and the Feast of Tabernacles was on Sept 23rd.

DEC 25th is for the pagans worshiping Tammuz or the Mystery Babylon church following the Babylonian religion; Catholics. Christ Mass is for the death of Christ Jesus.

The Yule season:  Thus saith the Lord, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them. 3 For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe. 4 They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not. 5 They are upright as the palm tree, but speak not: they must needs be borne, because they cannot go. Be not afraid of them; for they cannot do evil, neither also is it in them to do good.
Jer 10:2-5 (KJV)

Offline Bro Sam

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Re: Christmas vs pagan traditions.
« Reply #17 on: Sun Dec 16, 2012 - 08:14:53 »
Santa (male or female) Claus was a man from the north (total myth; never a person) with hair as wool that knows all and is everywhere dressed in a red vesture.      It is a mockery of God.

We know Jesus was born in September per Biblical record and historical account.  Roman Tax time was Sep 2nd.   The know the Babylonian pagan christ was/is celebrated on Dec 25t.   Yule season is from the occult and pagan.

My wife and I do not observe Christ Mass. Mass is for the death of Jesus.  We do not decorate or have a tree or give gifts.  We watch for the coming of the Lord Jesus Christ and pray.              Easter is pagan as well.   We observe Jesus' resurrection which occurred at Passover in the Jewish religion.  The Jews observed Passover; not Easter.   Easter comes from the Babylonian religion.

Offline grandma dolittle

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Re: Christmas vs pagan traditions.
« Reply #18 on: Mon Dec 17, 2012 - 20:42:03 »
I am sorry Dave, but the temple sheep were kept at the pasture near Bethelam.  Zadoc was on of the temple shepherds.

Offline grandma dolittle

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Re: Christmas vs pagan traditions.
« Reply #19 on: Mon Dec 17, 2012 - 20:46:15 »


[/quote]
And it came to pass in those days, that there went out a decree from Caesar Augustus, that all the world should be taxed. 2 (And this taxing was first made when Cyrenius was governor of Syria.) 3 And all went to be taxed, every one into his own city. 4 And Joseph also went up from Galilee, out of the city of Nazareth, into Judaea, unto the city of David, which is called Bethlehem; (because he was of the house and lineage of David:) 5 To be taxed with Mary his espoused wife, being great with child. 6 And so it was, that, while they were there, the days were accomplished that she should be delivered. 7 And she brought forth her firstborn son, and wrapped him in swaddling clothes, and laid him in a manger; because there was no room for them in the inn.
Luke 2:1-7 (KJV)

Roman tax time was September 2nd.  Mary great with child --- DAYS were accomplished.  So in a matter of days after Sept 2nd Jesus was born.   Using Daniel's decree one can place the year at 4 BC.   The Feast of Trumpets (used to crown a King) was on Sept 9th that year and the Feast of Tabernacles was on Sept 23rd.

DEC 25th is for the pagans worshiping Tammuz or the Mystery Babylon church following the Babylonian religion; Catholics. Christ Mass is for the death of Christ Jesus.

The Yule season:  Thus saith the Lord, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them. 3 For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe. 4 They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not. 5 They are upright as the palm tree, but speak not: they must needs be borne, because they cannot go. Be not afraid of them; for they cannot do evil, neither also is it in them to do good.
Jer 10:2-5 (KJV)


it is my understanding that Dec. 25th was a pagan holiday and the RCC had trouble getting the people to come to church because they were out celebrating the pagan rituals... so the church named Dec 25th as Christ's birth to get the people back into the church.








































































































































































« Last Edit: Mon Dec 17, 2012 - 20:50:01 by grandma dolittle »

Offline hammer123

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Re: Christmas vs pagan traditions.
« Reply #20 on: Mon Dec 17, 2012 - 21:17:16 »
Santa Claus is a distraction from Jesus, it is an evil ploy.

Offline Bro Sam

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Re: Christmas vs pagan traditions.
« Reply #21 on: Tue Dec 18, 2012 - 09:49:04 »
Basically there are enough xmas trees cut ever year to help destroy the planet. Several hundred million trees cut for a pagan ritual out of Babylon to worship Tammuz.

St Nicholas was a fable; he never existed.  A modern adaptation from the Babylonian church.  The Nicholas of the Bible departed from the NT church going on to form a sect called; Nicolaitans. They still exist today under the sect name of Opus Dei.

The catholics changed their day from Jan 6th to DEC 25th. Make no mistake; they are completely the Babylonian church right down to calling priest father, dressing in black teaching they can forgive sin and so on.

Jezebel gave over to them and you see her fate. The tribe of Dan implemented the Babylonian religion and were punished 1000 yrs.

They've made it like it's a little child's game. But it is a lie and does great harm.

A good read here:
The Origin Of Christmas
Christmas is a holiday shared and celebrated by many religions.
It is a day that has an effect on the entire world.

To many people, it is a favorite time of the year involving gift giving, parties and feasting. Christmas is a holiday that unifies almost all of professing Christendom.

The spirit of Christmas causes people to decorate their homes and churches, cut down trees and bring them into their homes, decking them with silver and gold.

In the light of that tree, families make merry and give gifts one to another.

When the sun goes down on December 24th, and darkness covers the land, families and churches prepare for participation in customs such as burning the yule log, singing around the decorated tree, kissing under the mistletoe and holly, and attending a late night service or midnight mass.

What is the meaning of Christmas? Where did the customs and traditions originate?

You, as a Christian, would want to worship the Lord in Spirit and in truth, discerning good from evil.

The truth is that all of the customs of Christmas pre-date the birth of Jesus Christ, and a study of this would reveal that
Christmas in our day is a collection of traditions and practices taken from many cultures and nations.

The date of December 25th comes from Rome and was a celebration of the Italic god, Saturn, and the rebirth of the sun god.

This was done long before the birth of Jesus.

It was noted by the pre-Christian Romans and other pagans, that daylight began to increase after December 22nd, when they assumed that the sun god died.

These ancients believed that the sun god rose from the dead three days later as the new-born and venerable sun.

Thus, they figured that to be the reason for increasing daylight.

This was a cause for much wild excitement and celebration. Gift giving and merriment filled the temples of ancient Rome, as sacred priests of Saturn, called dendrophori, carried wreaths of evergreen boughs in procession.

In Germany, the evergreen tree was used in worship and celebration of the yule god, also in observance of the resurrected sun god.

The evergreen tree was a symbol of the essence of life and was regarded as a phallic symbol in fertility worship.

Witches and other pagans regarded the red holly as a symbol of the menstrual blood of the queen of heaven, also known as Diana.

The holly wood was used by witches to make wands.

The white berries of mistletoe were believed by pagans to represent droplets of the semen of the sun god.

Both holly and mistletoe were hung in doorways of temples and homes to invoke powers of fertility in those who stood beneath and kissed, causing the spirits of the god and goddess to enter them.

These customs transcended the borders of Rome and Germany to the far reaches of the known world.

The question now arises: How did all of these customs find their way into contemporary Christianity, ranging from Catholicism to Protestantism to fundamentalist churches?

The word "Christmas"itself reveals who married paganism to Christianity.

The word "Christmas" is a combination of the words "Christ" and "Mass.

The word "Mass" means death and was coined originally by the Roman Catholic Church, and belongs exclusively to the church of Rome.

The ritual of the Mass involves the death of Christ, and the distribution of the "Host", a word taken from the Latin word "hostiall" meaning victim!

In short, Christmas is strictly a Roman Catholic word.

A simple study of the tactics of the Romish Church reveals that in every case, the church absorbed the customs, traditions and general paganism of every tribe, culture and nation in their efforts to increase the number of people under their control.

In short, the Romish church told all of these pagan cultures, "Bring your gods, goddesses, rituals and rites, and we will assign Christian sounding titles and names to them.

When Martin Luther started the reformation on October 31st, 1517, and other reformers followed his lead, all of them took with them the paganism that was so firmly imbedded in Rome.

These reformers left Christmas intact.

In England, as the authorized Bible became available to the common people by the decree of King James the II in 1611, people began to discover the pagan roots of Christmas, which are clearly revealed in Scripture.

The Puritans in England, and later in Massachusetts Colony, outlawed this holiday as witchcraft.

Near the end of the nineteenth century, when other Bible versions began to appear, there was a revival of the celebration of Christmas.

We are now seeing ever-increasing celebrating of Christmas or Yule, its true name, as we draw closer to the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ!

In both witchcraft circles and contemporary Christian churches, the same things are going on.

As the Bible clearly states in Jeremiah 10:2-4, "Thus saith the Lord, learn not the way of the heathen; and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven. For the heathen are dismayed at them. For the customs of the people are vain. For one cutteth a tree out of the forest. The work of the hands of the workman with the axe. They deck it with silver and with gold. They fasten it with nails and with hammers that it move not."

So, what is wrong with Christmas?

1. To say that Jesus was born on December 25th is a lie! The true date is sometime in September according to the Scriptures.

2. Trees, wreaths, holly, mistletoe and the like are strictly forbidden as pagan and heathen! To say that these are Christian or that they can be made Christian is a lie!

3. The Lord never spoke of commemorating his birth but rather commanded us to remember the sacrifice of His suffering and death, which purchased our salvation.

Think about it! Can we worship and honor God by involving ourselves with customs and traditions, which God Himself forbade as idolatry? Can we convince God to somehow "Christianize" these customs and the whole pretense and lie of Christmas, so we can enjoy ourselves? Can we obey through disobedience?

So what is right about Christmas? 1. Nothing!
For more information and documentation contact:

Last Trumpet Ministries International
PO Box 806
Beaver Dam, WI 53916

Offline Carey

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Re: Christmas vs pagan traditions.
« Reply #22 on: Tue Dec 18, 2012 - 09:59:04 »
Basically there are enough xmas trees cut ever year to help destroy the planet. Several hundred million trees cut for a pagan ritual out of Babylon to worship Tammuz.

Now before ya get all the liberal tree hugging hippies supportin ya, it should be mentioned that nearly all of those trees come from tree farms and would never have existed otherwise. 

Given that they are on average six years old before harvested, and the crops planted are of a cyclical nature, rather than helping "destroy" the planet, this "pagan" ritual as you call it is helping to save the planet.

Offline DaveW

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Re: Christmas vs pagan traditions.
« Reply #23 on: Tue Dec 18, 2012 - 10:01:17 »

St Nicholas was a fable; he never existed.  A modern adaptation from the Babylonian church.  The Nicholas of the Bible departed from the NT church going on to form a sect called; Nicolaitans. They still exist today under the sect name of Opus Dei.

Wrong Nicholas. Did you read post 15?
Quote
"Santa Claus" is a bastardization of the name of an early Christian bishop named Nikolaos  (270 - 343 A.D.), who was remembered for his great kindness to the poor. So the person we now call "Santa Claus" was real--and I'm sure that as a man of God he'd be horrified if he knew his name would one day become a secular icon that is used to push Jesus out of the way.

If he was born in 270 ad, how could he be in the gospels?

Offline MeMyself

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Re: Christmas vs pagan traditions.
« Reply #24 on: Tue Dec 18, 2012 - 10:39:36 »
Basically there are enough xmas trees cut ever year to help destroy the planet. Several hundred million trees cut for a pagan ritual out of Babylon to worship Tammuz.

Now before ya get all the liberal tree hugging hippies supportin ya, it should be mentioned that nearly all of those trees come from tree farms and would never have existed otherwise. 

Given that they are on average six years old before harvested, and the crops planted are of a cyclical nature, rather than helping "destroy" the planet, this "pagan" ritual as you call it is helping to save the planet.

 ::hug::

Offline Bro Sam

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Re: Christmas vs pagan traditions.
« Reply #25 on: Tue Dec 18, 2012 - 10:43:52 »
Nicholas is clearly defined in ancient text as:  But we will give ourselves continually to prayer, and to the ministry of the word. 5 And the saying pleased the whole multitude: and they chose Stephen, a man full of faith and of the Holy Ghost, and Philip, and Prochorus, and Nicanor, and Timon, and Parmenas, and Nicolas a proselyte of Antioch
Acts 6:4-5 (KJV)

Bingo; according to ancient text; that is the Nicolas that birthed the Nicolaitans.

The goof-ball of Nikolaos ---- he never existed; only myth.  Look at all the one's claiming that from all the different countries - hint that it's a lie.

Offline Bro Sam

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Re: Christmas vs pagan traditions.
« Reply #26 on: Tue Dec 18, 2012 - 10:47:05 »
Basically there are enough xmas trees cut ever year to help destroy the planet. Several hundred million trees cut for a pagan ritual out of Babylon to worship Tammuz.

Now before ya get all the liberal tree hugging hippies supportin ya, it should be mentioned that nearly all of those trees come from tree farms and would never have existed otherwise. 

Given that they are on average six years old before harvested, and the crops planted are of a cyclical nature, rather than helping "destroy" the planet, this "pagan" ritual as you call it is helping to save the planet.

 ::hug::

Oh; I must have been confused. I thought they were real trees that grow in soil.  So, they don't process and produce O2

I should have realized they are recycled polymer.

Offline MeMyself

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Re: Christmas vs pagan traditions.
« Reply #27 on: Tue Dec 18, 2012 - 10:51:51 »
Basically there are enough xmas trees cut ever year to help destroy the planet. Several hundred million trees cut for a pagan ritual out of Babylon to worship Tammuz.

Now before ya get all the liberal tree hugging hippies supportin ya, it should be mentioned that nearly all of those trees come from tree farms and would never have existed otherwise. 

Given that they are on average six years old before harvested, and the crops planted are of a cyclical nature, rather than helping "destroy" the planet, this "pagan" ritual as you call it is helping to save the planet.

 ::hug::

Oh; I must have been confused. I thought they were real trees that grow in soil.  So, they don't process and produce O2

I should have realized they are recycled polymer.

Give me a break!  Carey gave a very easy to understand explanation to you!  If there were no tree farms, there would have never been those trees to cut down.  They are cyclical...meaning come back.  We cut ours and leave a branch so the tree can replenish and they do...the branch that remains still does its job

Offline Bro Sam

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Re: Christmas vs pagan traditions.
« Reply #28 on: Tue Dec 18, 2012 - 11:37:30 »
So, they cut down the mature hardwood trees and plant xmas trees and never allow them to mature. 

You have freedom to do what you want and think what you will. But as for me and my house, we will serve the Lord.

Thus saith the Lord, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them. 3 For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe. 4 They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not. 5 They are upright as the palm tree, but speak not: they must needs be borne, because they cannot go. Be not afraid of them; for they cannot do evil, neither also is it in them to do good.
Jer 10:2-5 (KJV)

Offline MeMyself

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Re: Christmas vs pagan traditions.
« Reply #29 on: Tue Dec 18, 2012 - 11:41:52 »
So, they cut down the mature hardwood trees and plant xmas trees and never allow them to mature. 

You have freedom to do what you want and think what you will. But as for me and my house, we will serve the Lord.
   ::aloneinclearlogic::

Gag!  As if those that don't share your convictions aren't serving the Lord. 

Thus saith the Lord, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them. 3 For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe. 4 They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not. 5 They are upright as the palm tree, but speak not: they must needs be borne, because they cannot go. Be not afraid of them; for they cannot do evil, neither also is it in them to do good.
Jer 10:2-5 (KJV)

These people are worshipping the trees. 

Christmas trees are not being worshipped. ::frown:: They are pretty, that's it.

But, if you can't have a pretty tree up in your house without worshipping it, then by all means...don't have one!!!!  ::nodding::


Offline Bro Sam

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Re: Christmas vs pagan traditions.
« Reply #30 on: Tue Dec 18, 2012 - 11:54:27 »
We have freedom. I can have mine and you; yours.     I choose not to put up a tree or 3 pointed star or 4 or 5 or 6.

 But ye have borne the tabernacle of your Moloch and Chiun your images, the star of your god, which ye made to yourselves.
Amos 5:26 (KJV)    Yea, ye took up the tabernacle of Moloch, and the star of your god Remphan, figures which ye made to worship them: and I will carry you away beyond Babylon.
Acts 7:43 (KJV)

But I do have a mercedes w/3 pt star on it.  Hitler's 4 pt star and occultist 5 pt star and the hexagram 6 pt star of the scriptures above are symbols I choose not to display.


Offline MeMyself

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Re: Christmas vs pagan traditions.
« Reply #31 on: Tue Dec 18, 2012 - 12:09:20 »
We have freedom. I can have mine and you; yours.    I choose not to put up a tree or 3 pointed star or 4 or 5 or 6.

 But ye have borne the tabernacle of your Moloch and Chiun your images, the star of your god, which ye made to yourselves.
Amos 5:26 (KJV)    Yea, ye took up the tabernacle of Moloch, and the star of your god Remphan, figures which ye made to worship them: and I will carry you away beyond Babylon.
Acts 7:43 (KJV)

But I do have a mercedes w/3 pt star on it.   Hitler's 4 pt star and occultist 5 pt star and the hexagram 6 pt star of the scriptures above are symbols I choose not to display.



Your Mercedes displays it though and so do you as you drive it around.

Offline MeMyself

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Re: Christmas vs pagan traditions.
« Reply #32 on: Tue Dec 18, 2012 - 12:10:47 »
Ps. I have nothing against you not putting a tree up...just the implication that those that do aren't serving the Lord.

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Re: Christmas vs pagan traditions.
« Reply #33 on: Tue Dec 18, 2012 - 12:25:28 »
Ps. I have nothing against you not putting a tree up...just the implication that those that do aren't serving the Lord.

I merely posted Jer 10....... God is your judge; not me.  It says it is a heathen custom. I choose not to do it. You can do what you want.  I, myself am a man and only a man.  Scripture is scripture: if God doesn't condemn, then it is not my plight to condemn.


I choose to read: Thus saith the Lord, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them. 3 For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe. 4 They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not. 5 They are upright as the palm tree, but speak not: they must needs be borne, because they cannot go. Be not afraid of them; for they cannot do evil, neither also is it in them to do good.
Jer 10:2-5 (KJV)                     And take it as a custom of the heathen.  I'm not afraid of the tree as it can do no evil or good.  But it does have an environmental impact to a huge extend to burn a bunch more electricity.  And, no good can come from it.

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Re: Christmas vs pagan traditions.
« Reply #34 on: Tue Dec 18, 2012 - 13:50:04 »
So, they cut down the mature hardwood trees and plant xmas trees and never allow them to mature. 

That is a bit better argument, but it begins with the assumption that mature hardwood trees were cut down to accomodate the tree farm. 

Even if we are to accept that assumptiong as fact, it should be noted that there is demand for that hardwood; and that demand will be satisfied, if not by those trees, than others in their place. 

Further, your objections presuppose that the land on which those mature hardwood trees stood would not otherwise be cleared for other purposes; such as grain agro, cattle production, or maybe a mall, or worse a parking lot.  Land is a pretty valuable resource.

As far as man's use of land goes a tree farm is better than most.  What is perhaps most ironic is that this environmental angle will have its greatest appeal to a few treehuggers that do indeed practice what you preach against, the pagan worship of a tree.


 

     
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