Author Topic: fundalmentalist independent baptists  (Read 8953 times)

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ex cathedra

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fundalmentalist independent baptists
« on: Wed Sep 16, 2009 - 19:22:20 »

I think they use The kjv only is that right?
 ::smile::
« Last Edit: Fri Jun 17, 2011 - 23:57:55 by ex cathedra »

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fundalmentalist independent baptists
« on: Wed Sep 16, 2009 - 19:22:20 »

Offline farouk

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Re: fundalmentalist independent baptists
« Reply #1 on: Wed Sep 16, 2009 - 21:23:37 »
ex c:

1) I think you have an adenda.

2) The way to promote an agenda is to find an extreme example and then try to portray it as somehow representative.


so whats this all about ?  don't you believe  church and state are  to remain seperate?
And any comments about the pastors sermons prayers etc would also be of interest in understanding funda indepen baptist beliefs.
also isnt fred phillips church also  -------a independent fundamental baptist church? i guess what i am asking .Is this stuff kinda A
shock and awe sorta  Baptist way to draw people through free news and then hope they will want to learn   more about independent  baptist churches in hopes of more membership?

 Thanks  



http://www.talk2action.org/story/2009/9/1/125513/4972/Front_Page/In_2nd_Death_Prayer_Sermon_Pastor_Declares_quot_Somebody_Should_Abort_Obama_quot_

ex cathedra

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Re: fundalmentalist independent baptists
« Reply #2 on: Wed Sep 16, 2009 - 23:50:21 »
ex c:

1) I think you have an adenda.

2) The way to promote an agenda is to find an extreme example and then try to portray it as somehow representative.


so whats this all about ?  don't you believe  church and state are  to remain seperate?
And any comments about the pastors sermons prayers etc would also be of interest in understanding funda indepen baptist beliefs.
also isnt fred phillips church also  -------a independent fundamental baptist church? i guess what i am asking .Is this stuff kinda A
shock and awe sorta  Baptist way to draw people through free news and then hope they will want to learn   more about independent  baptist churches in hopes of more membership?

 Thanks  



http://www.talk2action.org/story/2009/9/1/125513/4972/Front_Page/In_2nd_Death_Prayer_Sermon_Pastor_Declares_quot_Somebody_Should_Abort_Obama_quot_



I take it you dont want to talk about it . ::pondering:: ::beatingdeadhorse::




« Last Edit: Thu Sep 17, 2009 - 01:45:11 by ex cathedra »

Offline Bon Voyage

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Re: fundalmentalist independent baptists
« Reply #3 on: Wed Sep 16, 2009 - 23:52:49 »
ex c:

1) I think you have an adenda.

2) The way to promote an agenda is to find an extreme example and then try to portray it as somehow representative.


so whats this all about ?  don't you believe  church and state are  to remain seperate?
And any comments about the pastors sermons prayers etc would also be of interest in understanding funda indepen baptist beliefs.
also isnt fred phillips church also  -------a independent fundamental baptist church? i guess what i am asking .Is this stuff kinda A
shock and awe sorta  Baptist way to draw people through free news and then hope they will want to learn   more about independent  baptist churches in hopes of more membership?

 Thanks   



http://www.talk2action.org/story/2009/9/1/125513/4972/Front_Page/In_2nd_Death_Prayer_Sermon_Pastor_Declares_quot_Somebody_Should_Abort_Obama_quot_



So by saying they are extreme  .  You think it gets fundimental independent baptist's off the hook so to speak? especialy if a lutheran asks hinting that  their is no love loss between baptist and lutherans .

that would  work if one is already a  independent fundemental baptist perhaps  . But what about those that are not baptist or lutheran
The rest of the world who would  like to know more. But I cant make any one tell any one else  about their religion .




If you are going to equate this guy and Fred Phelps as standard bearers for Independent Fundamentalist Baptists, would it be okay if I equate practicing homosexual clergy with all Lutherans?

ex cathedra

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Re: fundalmentalist independent baptists
« Reply #4 on: Thu Sep 17, 2009 - 01:57:38 »
ex c:

1) I think you have an adenda.

2) The way to promote an agenda is to find an extreme example and then try to portray it as somehow representative.


so whats this all about ?  don't you believe  church and state are  to remain seperate?
And any comments about the pastors sermons prayers etc would also be of interest in understanding funda indepen baptist beliefs.
also isnt fred phillips church also  -------a independent fundamental baptist church? i guess what i am asking .Is this stuff kinda A
shock and awe sorta  Baptist way to draw people through free news and then hope they will want to learn   more about independent  baptist churches in hopes of more membership?

 Thanks  



http://www.talk2action.org/story/2009/9/1/125513/4972/Front_Page/In_2nd_Death_Prayer_Sermon_Pastor_Declares_quot_Somebody_Should_Abort_Obama_quot_



So by saying they are extreme  .  You think it gets fundimental independent baptist's off the hook so to speak? especialy if a lutheran asks hinting that  their is no love loss between baptist and lutherans .

that would  work if one is already a  independent fundemental baptist perhaps  . But what about those that are not baptist or lutheran
The rest of the world who would  like to know more. But I cant make any one tell any one else  about their religion .




If you are going to equate this guy and Fred Phelps as standard bearers for Independent Fundamentalist Baptists, would it be okay if I equate practicing homosexual clergy with all Lutherans?


fred phelps not  southern baptist, he does not claim to be primitive baptist .

didnt he claim to be  a independent fundamental baptist????

i hate to tell ya this but

i dont think the  elca homosexual bunch would think to kindly of you placing them amoungst  us confessional  lutherans after all even they have some scruppels. they dont want to hang around a bunch of sinner's.



on the other hand i thought baptist preacher Fred  Phillips liked and was proud of the label indepent fundamental baptist




« Last Edit: Thu Sep 17, 2009 - 02:29:27 by ex cathedra »

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Re: fundalmentalist independent baptists
« Reply #4 on: Thu Sep 17, 2009 - 01:57:38 »



Offline Bon Voyage

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Re: fundalmentalist independent baptists
« Reply #5 on: Thu Sep 17, 2009 - 08:57:44 »
ex c:

1) I think you have an adenda.

2) The way to promote an agenda is to find an extreme example and then try to portray it as somehow representative.


so whats this all about ?  don't you believe  church and state are  to remain seperate?
And any comments about the pastors sermons prayers etc would also be of interest in understanding funda indepen baptist beliefs.
also isnt fred phillips church also  -------a independent fundamental baptist church? i guess what i am asking .Is this stuff kinda A
shock and awe sorta  Baptist way to draw people through free news and then hope they will want to learn   more about independent  baptist churches in hopes of more membership?

 Thanks   



http://www.talk2action.org/story/2009/9/1/125513/4972/Front_Page/In_2nd_Death_Prayer_Sermon_Pastor_Declares_quot_Somebody_Should_Abort_Obama_quot_



So by saying they are extreme  .  You think it gets fundimental independent baptist's off the hook so to speak? especialy if a lutheran asks hinting that  their is no love loss between baptist and lutherans .

that would  work if one is already a  independent fundemental baptist perhaps  . But what about those that are not baptist or lutheran
The rest of the world who would  like to know more. But I cant make any one tell any one else  about their religion .




If you are going to equate this guy and Fred Phelps as standard bearers for Independent Fundamentalist Baptists, would it be okay if I equate practicing homosexual clergy with all Lutherans?


fred phelps not  southern baptist, he does not claim to be primitive baptist .

didnt he claim to be  a independent fundamental baptist????

i hate to tell ya this but

i dont think the  elca homosexual bunch would think to kindly of you placing them amoungst  us confessional  lutherans after all even they have some scruppels. they dont want to hang around a bunch of sinner's.



on the other hand i thought baptist preacher Fred  Phillips liked and was proud of the label indepent fundamental baptist







The conservative Lutherans may not like me pointing to homosexual clergy as their standard bearers any more than many Independent Fundamentalist Baptists would appreciate your insinuation that Phelps is the standard bearer for their type of church.

ex cathedra

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Re: fundalmentalist independent baptists
« Reply #6 on: Thu Sep 17, 2009 - 13:35:51 »
ex c:

1) I think you have an adenda.

2) The way to promote an agenda is to find an extreme example and then try to portray it as somehow representative.


so whats this all about ?  don't you believe  church and state are  to remain seperate?
And any comments about the pastors sermons prayers etc would also be of interest in understanding funda indepen baptist beliefs.
also isnt fred phillips church also  -------a independent fundamental baptist church? i guess what i am asking .Is this stuff kinda A
shock and awe sorta  Baptist way to draw people through free news and then hope they will want to learn   more about independent  baptist churches in hopes of more membership?

 Thanks   



http://www.talk2action.org/story/2009/9/1/125513/4972/Front_Page/In_2nd_Death_Prayer_Sermon_Pastor_Declares_quot_Somebody_Should_Abort_Obama_quot_



So by saying they are extreme  .  You think it gets fundimental independent baptist's off the hook so to speak? especialy if a lutheran asks hinting that  their is no love loss between baptist and lutherans .

that would  work if one is already a  independent fundemental baptist perhaps  . But what about those that are not baptist or lutheran
The rest of the world who would  like to know more. But I cant make any one tell any one else  about their religion .




If you are going to equate this guy and Fred Phelps as standard bearers for Independent Fundamentalist Baptists, would it be okay if I equate practicing homosexual clergy with all Lutherans?


fred phelps not  southern baptist, he does not claim to be primitive baptist .

didnt he claim to be  a independent fundamental baptist????

i hate to tell ya this but

i dont think the  elca homosexual bunch would think to kindly of you placing them amoungst  us confessional  lutherans after all even they have some scruppels. they dont want to hang around a bunch of sinner's.



on the other hand i thought baptist preacher Fred  Phillips liked and was proud of the label indepent fundamental baptist







The conservative Lutherans may not like me pointing to homosexual clergy as their standard bearers any more than many Independent Fundamentalist Baptists would appreciate your insinuation that Phelps is the standard bearer for their type of church.



yet this is what people see when they look at baptists or lutherans . They dont stop and concider any group that wants to can call them selves Lutheran or baptist can call them selves that -------- since the names are not copy writted .
so since people see Lutherans  all lumped together under the big umbrella of lutheran and also the same with  baptist. You would think instead of being uncomfortable with things  like .

"hey Luther was anti-semetic, I read what he said about  the jews and there lies'
we would have researched all about it and answered it so many times . It would be come very comfortable to us to answer such things.

Instead of getting upset.

a simple yea fred phillips church has labeled and identified them selves as fundemental independent baptist .

now let me tell ya what my fundamental  independent baptist church teaches . about how one such treat sinners who also need Jesus.


when challanged about Luther's  anti-semetism  . Rather than bring up all the nasty  facts about why luther became so angry .

it seems To get peoples attention better and draw them in to a conversation about the reason  Jesus came  .
to reply

yes luther and those jews  bore real and true sins did they not? And its a good thing to.

 Because  God does not save imaginerary sinners.

We must be honest and bold about our  sins AND LET OUR TRUST IN Jesus his  FORGIVNES BE EVEN Stronger Than our sin.s.

now if God could save some one as evil as  Luther dont you think he could save just as easly a dirty rotten rat like me and you the very same way?

Gods blessings and

get to like answering comfortably the uncomfortable questions because God has not put us here to fill our own church pews down here but heaven up their.






Offline EmbsComputerArt

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Re: fundalmentalist independent baptists
« Reply #7 on: Tue Jun 01, 2010 - 00:29:35 »
Independent baptist churches are not called independent because they are independent from the government.  (This they are however, except for usual tax exempt status which constrains their political dialog to some degree for which reason some churches choose  to forgo seeking such legal status).  They are called independent because they are self sustaining (except for in the case of missionary works) and don't answer to a hierarchy.  In other words, there is no church above them exercising authority over them that they give money to or answer to.  This means that they are self governing with their own policies, statement of faith, church constitution, doctrines, practices, and church polity (political structure).  One advantage to this structure is that bad doctrine does not infest them as easily as it would say in an Anglican church when the hierarchy decides to teach bad doctrine that all sub-churches must also teach.  Another is that all the tithes remain within the church unless directed elsewhere by a vote of the local body.  Examples of directing money to place outside of the local church would include sending money to a missionary work or foreign charitable group or to a "sister church" in need (a sister church being a church that is reasonable agreeable doctrinally).  The disadvantage is that the decisions of the pastors or local body or deacons can not be appealed to any higher authority since no such authority exists and abusive pastors are more difficult to remove.  The power of impeachment usually rests in the board of deacons alone.  This is problematic for two reasons.  Firstly the board of deacons is often small consisting of only 1 or 2 or perhaps 3 deacons (for most independent churches are rather small) and secondly that the deacons are usually appointed directly by the pastor or nominated by him or, in the case of nomination and election by the whole body, at least nominated or elected only with his approval.  This means they easily become cronies of the pastor protecting him and shielding him from removal and the stain of scandal.  Independent baptist churches are often small (usually less than 100 members and almost always less than a few thousand) and so there are opportunities for financial or other scandal to arise that may have been caught by a larger organization with more open books and better accountability.  This risk is supposed to be tempered by the role of the treasurer, but the treasurer is elected or appointed by the same process as the deacons.  One advantage for the church goer is that independent churches exert very little influence on one another so a member can not be ex-communicated from the body of Christ at large even in severe cases of misapplied discipline.  In other words, the believer is free to choose which church to attend even if there had been difficulty in a previous church.  It has been noted by Bill Grady in What Hath God Wrought - A Biblical Interpretation of American History that Thomas Jefferson gathered his views of local government from a baptist church such as this.  It is the local baptist church that reflects the sort of decentralized government that was supposed to be dominant in America.  I hope that helps.

Offline Holly3278

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Re: fundalmentalist independent baptists
« Reply #8 on: Sun Jul 25, 2010 - 16:00:55 »
Believe me when I say that one cannot equate Fred Phelps with all Independent Fundamentalist Baptists.  I have attended an Independent Fundamentalist Baptist church in the past and they do not proclaim hatred of everything that is American like Fred's church does.  In fact, I'd venture to say that you can even find an American flag in most Independent Fundamentalist Baptist churches.  Whether or not you can find one in Fred's church, I don't know.

ex cathedra

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Re: fundalmentalist independent baptists
« Reply #9 on: Sat Jun 18, 2011 - 00:04:54 »
ex c:

1) I think you have an adenda.

2) The way to promote an agenda is to find an extreme example and then try to portray it as somehow representative.


so whats this all about ?  don't you believe  church and state are  to remain seperate?
And any comments about the pastors sermons prayers etc would also be of interest in understanding funda indepen baptist beliefs.
also isnt fred phillips church also  -------a independent fundamental baptist church? i guess what i am asking .Is this stuff kinda A
shock and awe sorta  Baptist way to draw people through free news and then hope they will want to learn   more about independent  baptist churches in hopes of more membership?

 Thanks  



http://www.talk2action.org/story/2009/9/1/125513/4972/Front_Page/In_2nd_Death_Prayer_Sermon_Pastor_Declares_quot_Somebody_Should_Abort_Obama_quot_



So by saying they are extreme  .  You think it gets fundimental independent baptist's off the hook so to speak? especialy if a lutheran asks hinting that  their is no love loss between baptist and lutherans .

that would  work if one is already a  independent fundemental baptist perhaps  . But what about those that are not baptist or lutheran
The rest of the world who would  like to know more. But I cant make any one tell any one else  about their religion .




If you are going to equate this guy and Fred Phelps as standard bearers for Independent Fundamentalist Baptists, would it be okay if I equate practicing homosexual clergy with all Lutherans?


no because

their are homosexual clergy in baptist churches to ,, but that does not mean  all Baptist chuches use homosexual clergy does it?


The not good at all thing is that any one can call themselves Fundamental Baptist or a Lutheran preacher.. hang up that sign on a building

ans start preaching practically what ever they want to..


And as long as they break no laws real Baptists and Lutherans can only warn who they are able to about it..
« Last Edit: Sat Jun 18, 2011 - 00:31:06 by ex cathedra »

Offline pointmade

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Re: fundalmentalist independent baptists
« Reply #10 on: Sat Jun 18, 2011 - 09:27:17 »
ex Cathedra : "I think they use The kjv only is that right?"

True, the "Independent" + "Fundamental" Baptist use the "King Janes."
I have noticed on many of their marque you will read "King James Only."

They believe the King James is the ONLY true inspired word of God.

I have a book that was written in 1871,  "Religious Denominations of the World" by Vincent L. Milner, (Bradley, Garreton & Co, Philadelphia).

The author states: Independentism is peculiar to Great Britton, the United States, and the Netherlands.
It was carried first to American colonies in 1620, and by successive Puritan emigrants in 1629 and 1633 from England.

Interesting that the author wrote:
"qualifications which constitutes a regular minister of the New Testament, are, a firm belief in the Gospel, a principle of sincere and unaffected piety, a competent stock of knowledge, a capacity for leading devotion and communicating instructions, a serious inclination to encourage in the important employment of promoting  the everlasting salvation of mankind; and the congregation believes that the imposition of hands of bishops or presbyters would convey to him no powers or prerogatives of which he was not before possessed." (p. 212).

You will find in most Independent churches a large picture (often hand painted) of the "Minister" in the Foyer.
He is held in high esteem by the congreation.
 

ex cathedra

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Re: fundalmentalist independent baptists
« Reply #11 on: Tue Jun 28, 2011 - 17:29:02 »
There are a few lutheran synods and church bodies in the USA ...  that are kjv only ,, also...

i think one example in  the lutheran church

is the

Orthodox Lutheran Confessional Conference of Lutheran churches...