Author Topic: Honest question for Baptists  (Read 7377 times)

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Offline Catholica

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Honest question for Baptists
« on: Fri Jan 07, 2011 - 13:44:10 »
Hi there, this thread is not meant to challenge the baptist faith, but rather just so that I can learn what you believe, so I hope that I don't offend, if I do, please forgive me.

I am curious as to what the prevailing (or universal) Baptist belief is with regard to what happens when we die, with regard to the soul.  Do Baptist believe that the soul goes to heaven/hell?  Or do you believe that there is no soul, just a spirit "free from sin", and that a man consists of only sinful body and sinless spirit?

I hope this makes sense.  Let me know if I can clarify.

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Honest question for Baptists
« on: Fri Jan 07, 2011 - 13:44:10 »

Offline pointmade

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Re: Honest question for Baptists
« Reply #1 on: Sat Jan 08, 2011 - 07:09:01 »
Catholica, you may want to take this up with Chestertonrules. He has said that he was "baptized in the Baptist Church."

All Baptist churches do not fly by the same rules. Some are "free will Baptists"  while most, hold to Calvin's doctrine of Irresistible Grace, and Unconditional Election. One would need to know this doctrine to get a handle on what the church teaches about the body, soul and spirit of the Baptist.

I know you are familiar with Augustine's doctrine because Calvin took most of his components from Augustine and wrote it into his "Institutes of the Christian Religion." You could Google for your answer. As in most Christian doctrine the original words of the Apostles have been texturalized.

The Great Baptizmo

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Re: Honest question for Baptists
« Reply #2 on: Sat Jan 08, 2011 - 09:40:33 »
Some Baptists were influenced by Presbyterians and had a "Restoration Movement."  Now they call themselves "Church of Christ."

Offline Catholica

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Re: Honest question for Baptists
« Reply #3 on: Mon Jan 10, 2011 - 07:12:41 »
Catholica, you may want to take this up with Chestertonrules. He has said that he was "baptized in the Baptist Church."

All Baptist churches do not fly by the same rules. Some are "free will Baptists"  while most, hold to Calvin's doctrine of Irresistible Grace, and Unconditional Election. One would need to know this doctrine to get a handle on what the church teaches about the body, soul and spirit of the Baptist.

I know you are familiar with Augustine's doctrine because Calvin took most of his components from Augustine and wrote it into his "Institutes of the Christian Religion." You could Google for your answer. As in most Christian doctrine the original words of the Apostles have been texturalized.

Hi pointmade, I'm not trying to start a debate.  I did try to google about Baptist beliefs about the soul, but I came up empty.  I keep finding something called "soul freedom" and other seemingly non-related things.

All I'm really wondering is, if a person is saved, that baptists believe that the soul goes to heaven.  Or is there disagreement about this?

Offline pointmade

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Re: Honest question for Baptists
« Reply #4 on: Mon Jan 10, 2011 - 13:01:00 »
Catholica: "All I'm really wondering is, if a person is saved, that baptists believe that the soul goes to heaven.  Or is there disagreement about this?

You can count on a "disagreement." You would first have to find out if the Baptist you were talking with was a Premillennialist or not.
Whether he believes in "The Great Tribulation." "The "Rapture," "The Thousand Year Reign of Christ on Earth," etc., etc.
I mean, you first have to know all the Eschatological formulas before you will ever get a straight answer on what happens to the Baptists soul after death.
Most will tell you that their "soul' was predestine to be saved in heaven before the foundation of the world" (Eph. 1:4-5).

Does the Bible teach Dichotomous? Meaning that man is two-fold; body and soul/spirit. In the New Testament "Psyche" or "soul" and "pneuma" or "spirit" are used interchangeably; man has a two-fold nature.
Reading Luke 16:19-31 we read that the beggar, Lazarus had a soul/spirit, body in Abraham's bosom," while the "rich man" also had a soul/spirit, body in hades.

Looking at 1 Thess. 5:23 the terms body, soul, and spirit represent an accumulation of terms indicating the intensity and completeness of the desired sanctification, just as in Matthew 22:37 the terms heart, soul, and mind is an accumulation of terms indicating the intensity and completeness of the desired kind of love.

In Hebrews 4:12 the sword of the Word of God does not divide the soul from the spirit. The word "merismos" means to divide from within, not from.
The meaning of the passage points to the penetrating power of the Gospel.

Sin involves the whole man and salvation includes the body. Jesus saves men, not spirits. (Romans 8:23).
Man, as a unity or spirit/soul and body, is well equipped to discharge his responsibilities to God and to the world.


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Re: Honest question for Baptists
« Reply #4 on: Mon Jan 10, 2011 - 13:01:00 »



Offline Catholica

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Re: Honest question for Baptists
« Reply #5 on: Mon Jan 10, 2011 - 13:07:50 »
Thanks, pointmade.  On this last point:

Sin involves the whole man and salvation includes the body. Jesus saves men, not spirits. (Romans 8:23).
Man, as a unity or spirit/soul and body, is well equipped to discharge his responsibilities to God and to the world.

Would you say there is reasonable agreement among most or all baptist churches about this? 

The reason I ask is that someone who says that he is Baptist is telling me that the spirit, which comes to us when we are born again remains holy and unstained by sin, and that the body is sinful and destroyed completely.  So something that we gain from God is all that is rest of ourselves when we go to heaven, almost as if it were two people.  And he basically told me that my belief (that the soul goes to heaven when we die) would be considered heresy to a Baptist, but I didn't think that that was true.

Offline JohnDB

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Re: Honest question for Baptists
« Reply #6 on: Mon Jan 10, 2011 - 14:58:03 »
Most Baptists believe that a person's soul goes to heaven.

We get a heavenly body that resembles the one we had on earth and our spirit and mind goes with...of course sinless...our desire to sin is stripped from us.

A person's soul is their mind, body, and spirit all three....so....if a person had short, stubby arms on earth it isn't likely they are gonna get longer ones when they get to heaven in their new body...cuz how would we recognize them without them short, stubby arms. 

Offline Catholica

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Re: Honest question for Baptists
« Reply #7 on: Mon Jan 10, 2011 - 15:00:40 »
Most Baptists believe that a person's soul goes to heaven.

We get a heavenly body that resembles the one we had on earth and our spirit and mind goes with...of course sinless...our desire to sin is stripped from us.

A person's soul is their mind, body, and spirit all three....so....if a person had short, stubby arms on earth it isn't likely they are gonna get longer ones when they get to heaven in their new body...cuz how would we recognize them without them short, stubby arms. 

Thanks JohnDB, and all. 

Offline pointmade

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Re: Honest question for Baptists
« Reply #8 on: Tue Jan 11, 2011 - 09:18:23 »
Catholica: "Would you say there is reasonable agreement among most or all baptist churches about this? 

The reason I ask is that someone who says that he is Baptist is telling me that the spirit, which comes to us when we are born again remains holy and unstained by sin, and that the body is sinful and destroyed completely.  So something that we gain from God is all that is rest of ourselves when we go to heaven, almost as if it were two people.  And he basically told me that my belief (that the soul goes to heaven when we die) would be considered heresy to a Baptist, but I didn't think that that was true."

Baptist are like most of us, we come to believe what we are taught.

His statement that "the spirit ( I assume he is referring to the Holy Spirit) comes to us when we are born again."
He, being a Baptist would believe in "Holy Spirit regeneration," or "Irresistible grace.
Are you familiar with the doctrine?


Offline Catholica

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Re: Honest question for Baptists
« Reply #9 on: Tue Jan 11, 2011 - 09:25:21 »
Catholica: "Would you say there is reasonable agreement among most or all baptist churches about this?  

The reason I ask is that someone who says that he is Baptist is telling me that the spirit, which comes to us when we are born again remains holy and unstained by sin, and that the body is sinful and destroyed completely.  So something that we gain from God is all that is rest of ourselves when we go to heaven, almost as if it were two people.  And he basically told me that my belief (that the soul goes to heaven when we die) would be considered heresy to a Baptist, but I didn't think that that was true."

Baptist are like most of us, we come to believe what we are taught.

His statement that "the spirit ( I assume he is referring to the Holy Spirit) comes to us when we are born again."
He, being a Baptist would believe in "Holy Spirit regeneration," or "Irresistible grace.
Are you familiar with the doctrine?

Yes, I think so.  But I'm not sure that it is the same.  I guess I'm not sure how it applies in what he is saying.  I thought that even Holy Spirit regeneration still brought forth change in a soul, not ignore the existence of one.
« Last Edit: Tue Jan 11, 2011 - 10:01:38 by Catholica »

Offline pointmade

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Re: Honest question for Baptists
« Reply #10 on: Tue Jan 11, 2011 - 17:34:22 »
Catholica: "Yes, I think so.  But I'm not sure that it is the same.  I guess I'm not sure how it applies in what he is saying.  I thought that even Holy Spirit regeneration still brought forth change in a soul, not ignore the existence of one."

I agree. I think that Scripture is rather vague on the subject. I note when Jesus called Lazarus from the grave, he must have come back in body with spirit and soul in tact. 
I would have thought when Lazarus was seated at the supper table in Bethany (John 12:1) someone would have asked him how he felt. wouldn't you?
Had the Lord wanted us to know about the "here after" this would have been a wonderful opportunity.

I really do not believe our minds are equipped to  comprehend what is in our future. When you study Matthew 25:36-46 that neither the righteous or unrighteous understood why they had been judged to "inherit the kingdom prepared from the foundation of the world," or why they were to go away into everlasting punishment." The question asked by both is intriguing....."Lord, when did we see you? etc."

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Re: Honest question for Baptists
« Reply #11 on: Sat Jan 15, 2011 - 10:43:49 »
Catholica: "Would you say there is reasonable agreement among most or all baptist churches about this? 

The reason I ask is that someone who says that he is Baptist is telling me that the spirit, which comes to us when we are born again remains holy and unstained by sin, and that the body is sinful and destroyed completely.  So something that we gain from God is all that is rest of ourselves when we go to heaven, almost as if it were two people.  And he basically told me that my belief (that the soul goes to heaven when we die) would be considered heresy to a Baptist, but I didn't think that that was true."

Baptist are like most of us, we come to believe what we are taught.

His statement that "the spirit ( I assume he is referring to the Holy Spirit) comes to us when we are born again."
He, being a Baptist would believe in "Holy Spirit regeneration," or "Irresistible grace.
Are you familiar with the doctrine?




As a "Baptist" yourself, you don't believe in "Irresistible Grace" do you?  Other "Baptists" (even those that use the name on the sign out front) fail to believe in that doctrine.

I believe you realize I use the term "Baptist" loosely in pegging you as a "Baptist."  But if fits, even if loose.

Offline betsy

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Re: Honest question for Baptists
« Reply #12 on: Sat Sep 29, 2012 - 08:16:20 »
Quote
Catholica: "All I'm really wondering is, if a person is saved, that baptists believe that the soul goes to heaven.  Or is there disagreement about this?

Do we rise up from the dead and go to Heaven with our earthly bodies?  Do we get transfigured like Christ when we go to Heaven?  Do we just have our spirit go to Heaven? Mind and Hearts?   No one have access to that information.  Not any religion.  We don't exactly know.

Offline KristinEstep

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Re: Honest question for Baptists
« Reply #13 on: Sat Oct 27, 2012 - 10:23:42 »
My baptist church believes, to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord. Once you die, you go directly to the Lord. We believe in a hell, but only the lost (unsaved) go there.

Offline Bro Sam

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Re: Honest question for Baptists
« Reply #14 on: Fri Dec 14, 2012 - 18:50:04 »
For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens. 2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven: 3 If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked. 4 For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life. 5 Now he that hath wrought us for the selfsame thing is God, who also hath given unto us the earnest of the Spirit. 6 Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord: 7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight:) 8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord. 9 Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him. 10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad. 11 Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.
2 Cor 5:1-11 (KJV)

So then death worketh in us, but life in you. 13  the same spirit of faith, according as it is written, I believed, and therefore have I spoken; we also believe, and therefore speak; 14 Knowing that he which raised up the Lord Jesus shall raise up us also by Jesus, and shall present us with you. 15 For all things are for your sakes, that the abundant grace might through the thanksgiving of many redound to the glory of God. 16 For which cause we faint not; but though our outward man perish, yet the inward man is renewed day by day. 17 For our light affliction, which is but for a moment, worketh for us a far more exceeding and eternal weight of glory; 18 While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.
2 Cor 4:12-18 (KJV)