southern baptist's

[ex cathedra]

how much of the bible teachings do southern baptist pastors and there congregations  insist upon before they declaire   religious fellowshp with a pastor or a lay  person that wants to join the denomination?

[Joker]

I am not sure I understand your question.

Every church is independent.   

Here is the SBC website.   www.sbc.net

This fact page may help you better understand what the SBC is and is not.

http://www.sbc.net/aboutus/faqs.asp#3

[ex cathedra]

I am not sure I understand your question.

Every church is independent.    

Here is the SBC website.   www.sbc.net

This fact page may help you better understand what the SBC is and is not.

http://www.sbc.net/aboutus/faqs.asp#3

Read it and this seems to be the theme. of sbc


Once again, because of the autonomous nature of SBC churches, there is no policy within the Convention that addresses these matters.  Each church directs its own affairs apart from outside intervention, deciding for itself how to deal with such matters.
==================================================================================================
 
very different than confessional lutherans


from the formula concord epitome //// You can read the rest here  http://bookofconcord.org/fc-ep.php ---------------------------------


solid   decloration  #1

1] 1. We believe, teach, and confess that the sole rule and standard according to which all dogmas together with [all] teachers should be estimated and judged are the prophetic and apostolic Scriptures of the Old and of the New Testament alone, as it is written Ps. 119:105: Thy Word is a lamp unto my feet and a light unto my path. And St. Paul: Though an angel from heaven preach any other gospel unto you, let him be accursed, Gal. 1:8.

[JohnDB]

I have been in SBC churchs since I was a week old.

So I guess I know a little something about them.

Once upon a time membership in some churchs was tentative upon successfully completing new member classes....and there was an oral exam at the end of it.

You had to be able to speak what we believed and why...classes took about a year.

There is a story of one poor fellow who was from a rather poor house...his father had left his mother penniless. He went to classes and failed them his first year.

So he went back to take them again...poor poor Dwight. The church even took up a collection so he could have decent clothes to wear on Sundays...

But today Dwight L. Moody is a standard in his own right of theology classes.

But for the most part there is a book called "What Baptists believe...or maybe it is the Baptist Faith and Message commentary written by Herschal Hobbs that will give you a clue to see if you are going to be comfortable in a Baptist congregation.

Some congregations are Calvinistic in nature. (reformed...grace doctrine) Most are not though. Nor are they Arminian...they are Baptist which isn't like those other two.

Kinda strange to explain...cause you can't without writing a book...as if that would really cover the subject at hand.

So...generally speaking if you have enjoyed a "Believer's Baptism" by complete immersion into water. (one of their biggies) then you can usually join any SBC church you happen to like.

[ex cathedra]

I have been in SBC churchs since I was a week old.

So I guess I know a little something about them.

Once upon a time membership in some churchs was tentative upon successfully completing new member classes....and there was an oral exam at the end of it.

You had to be able to speak what we believed and why...classes took about a year.

There is a story of one poor fellow who was from a rather poor house...his father had left his mother penniless. He went to classes and failed them his first year.

So he went back to take them again...poor poor Dwight. The church even took up a collection so he could have decent clothes to wear on Sundays...

But today Dwight L. Moody is a standard in his own right of theology classes.

But for the most part there is a book called "What Baptists believe...or maybe it is the Baptist Faith and Message commentary written by Herschal Hobbs that will give you a clue to see if you are going to be comfortable in a Baptist congregation.

Some congregations are Calvinistic in nature. (reformed...grace doctrine) Most are not though. Nor are they Arminian...they are Baptist which isn't like those other two.

Kinda strange to explain...cause you can't without writing a book...as if that would really cover the subject at hand.

So...generally speaking if you have enjoyed a "Believer's Baptism" by complete immersion into water. (one of their biggies) then you can usually join any SBC church you happen to like.

how can a calvanist and arminians  Be OF  one mind in Christ?             1 Corinthians 1:10

 Dont both  give some financial support  to the sbc?
would it not be better the ones who believed Gods word Taught  calvanist and the ones who beloved Gods word taught  arminian .
stayed away  from each other religiously---------romans 16:17
does not seem right to support financial  and defend the others error ------john 14:23

does it?

[ex cathedra]

I have been in SBC churchs since I was a week old.

So I guess I know a little something about them.

Once upon a time membership in some churchs was tentative upon successfully completing new member classes....and there was an oral exam at the end of it.

You had to be able to speak what we believed and why...classes took about a year.

There is a story of one poor fellow who was from a rather poor house...his father had left his mother penniless. He went to classes and failed them his first year.

So he went back to take them again...poor poor Dwight. The church even took up a collection so he could have decent clothes to wear on Sundays...

But today Dwight L. Moody is a standard in his own right of theology classes.

But for the most part there is a book called "What Baptists believe...or maybe it is the Baptist Faith and Message commentary written by Herschal Hobbs that will give you a clue to see if you are going to be comfortable in a Baptist congregation.

Some congregations are Calvinistic in nature. (reformed...grace doctrine) Most are not though. Nor are they Arminian...they are Baptist which isn't like those other two.

Kinda strange to explain...cause you can't without writing a book...as if that would really cover the subject at hand.

So...generally speaking if you have enjoyed a "Believer's Baptism" by complete immersion into water. (one of their biggies) then you can usually join any SBC church you happen to like.

the most famous southern Baptist OF THEM ALL ---------------- Dr Billy Graham on INFANT BAPTISM

“I do believe that something happens at the baptism of an infant....We cannot fully understand the mysteries of God, but I believe a miracle can happen in these children so that they are regenerated, that is, made Christian, through infant baptism. If you want to call that baptismal regeneration, that’s all right with me

[farouk]

Ex c:

As you will know, the gentleman you mentioned does not necessarily always speak for the Scriptures. When he does do so, it is good.

I have been in SBC churchs since I was a week old.

So I guess I know a little something about them.

Once upon a time membership in some churchs was tentative upon successfully completing new member classes....and there was an oral exam at the end of it.

You had to be able to speak what we believed and why...classes took about a year.

There is a story of one poor fellow who was from a rather poor house...his father had left his mother penniless. He went to classes and failed them his first year.

So he went back to take them again...poor poor Dwight. The church even took up a collection so he could have decent clothes to wear on Sundays...

But today Dwight L. Moody is a standard in his own right of theology classes.

But for the most part there is a book called "What Baptists believe...or maybe it is the Baptist Faith and Message commentary written by Herschal Hobbs that will give you a clue to see if you are going to be comfortable in a Baptist congregation.

Some congregations are Calvinistic in nature. (reformed...grace doctrine) Most are not though. Nor are they Arminian...they are Baptist which isn't like those other two.

Kinda strange to explain...cause you can't without writing a book...as if that would really cover the subject at hand.

So...generally speaking if you have enjoyed a "Believer's Baptism" by complete immersion into water. (one of their biggies) then you can usually join any SBC church you happen to like.

the most famous southern Baptist OF THEM ALL ---------------- Dr Billy Graham on INFANT BAPTISM

“I do believe that something happens at the baptism of an infant....We cannot fully understand the mysteries of God, but I believe a miracle can happen in these children so that they are regenerated, that is, made Christian, through infant baptism. If you want to call that baptismal regeneration, that’s all right with me

[ex cathedra]

Ex c:

As you will know, the gentleman you mentioned does not necessarily always speak for the Scriptures. When he does do so, it is good.

I have been in SBC churchs since I was a week old.

So I guess I know a little something about them.

Once upon a time membership in some churchs was tentative upon successfully completing new member classes....and there was an oral exam at the end of it.

You had to be able to speak what we believed and why...classes took about a year.

There is a story of one poor fellow who was from a rather poor house...his father had left his mother penniless. He went to classes and failed them his first year.

So he went back to take them again...poor poor Dwight. The church even took up a collection so he could have decent clothes to wear on Sundays...

But today Dwight L. Moody is a standard in his own right of theology classes.

But for the most part there is a book called "What Baptists believe...or maybe it is the Baptist Faith and Message commentary written by Herschal Hobbs that will give you a clue to see if you are going to be comfortable in a Baptist congregation.

Some congregations are Calvinistic in nature. (reformed...grace doctrine) Most are not though. Nor are they Arminian...they are Baptist which isn't like those other two.

Kinda strange to explain...cause you can't without writing a book...as if that would really cover the subject at hand.

So...generally speaking if you have enjoyed a "Believer's Baptism" by complete immersion into water. (one of their biggies) then you can usually join any SBC church you happen to like.

the most famous  Baptist OF THEM ALL ---------------- Dr Billy Graham on INFANT BAPTISM

“I do believe that something happens at the baptism of an infant....We cannot fully understand the mysteries of God, but I believe a miracle can happen in these children so that they are regenerated, that is, made Christian, through infant baptism. If you want to call that baptismal regeneration, that’s all right with me

[JohnDB]

most baptist churchs do not baptize babies...baby dedications yes, baptize no.

But the thing is is that no one speaks for the other churchs...there is no central voice or authority whatsoever except God.

IT is the baptist way...Leadership exists solely in each Church.

The SBC is mostly an organization to help build churchs everywhere in the world.

North AMerican missions and International Missions and complete with literature to teach people what the Bible says.

Some are exclusively scripture interprets scripture...some look to history, anthropology, geography, and geology to assist...but creeds, catechisms and that sort of thing are always left out for Baptists.

The only thing that we all have in common is the fact that we are evangelical.

[caldwelljr11]

how can a calvanist and arminians  Be OF  one mind in Christ?             1 Corinthians 1:10

Calvinism and Arminianism are not biblical doctrine.  They are theological systems used to understand biblical doctrine.  

Most Baptist churches I’ve attended include members who hold various theological beliefs, but are united and of one mind in Scripture and Christ.  We have to remember that theology is not limited to Scripture alone but incorporates reason and human understanding.  The Calvinist and Arminianism can both support their views scripturally.  One view is definitely incorrect, but both could be.

I may be willing to die for Christ and the gospel, but I’d probably only accept a splinter (small splinter) in defense of my theological opinions.  

[Stucky]

Dear ex cathedra
You used this scripture to justify infant baptism as necessary for salvation:

TITUS CHAPTER 3

4But when the kindness and love of God our Savior appeared, 5he saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy. He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit, 6whom he poured out on us generously through Jesus Christ our Savior, 7so that, having been justified by his grace, we might become heirs having the hope of eternal life

Let's put those verses in their full context:

Titus 3 (New International Version)

Doing What is Good

3At one time we too were foolish, disobedient, deceived and enslaved by all kinds of passions and pleasures. We lived in malice and envy, being hated and hating one another. 4But when the kindness and love of God our Savior appeared, 5he saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy. He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit, 6whom he poured out on us generously through Jesus Christ our Savior, 7so that, having been justified by his grace, we might become heirs having the hope of eternal life. 8This is a trustworthy saying. And I want you to stress these things, so that those who have trusted in God may be careful to devote themselves to doing what is good. These things are excellent and profitable for everyone.

Now, Mr. cathedra, please explain to this old country boy how any of that scripture specifically speaks of  any kind of baptism, much less infant baptism?

[Bonnie]

Not all Baptist churches belong to the Southern Baptist Conference. There's only one in our town that does.

[caldwelljr11]

Most of the Baptist churches where I live are Southern Baptist.
 
Of course, the SBC doesn’t dictate any beliefs or form authority of the churches, it is an organization for churches who hold to the views of the SBC.  Each church is independent.  The primary reason I attend southern Baptist churches is that I do subscribe to their beliefs and I know if I go to a southern Baptist church I will agree with most of their theological views (with a few exceptions). 

[ex cathedra]

Dear ex cathedra
You used this scripture to justify infant baptism as necessary for salvation:

TITUS CHAPTER 3

4But when the kindness and love of God our Savior appeared, 5he saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy. He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit, 6whom he poured out on us generously through Jesus Christ our Savior, 7so that, having been justified by his grace, we might become heirs having the hope of eternal life

Let's put those verses in their full context:

Titus 3 (New International Version)

Doing What is Good

3At one time we too were foolish, disobedient, deceived and enslaved by all kinds of passions and pleasures. We lived in malice and envy, being hated and hating one another. 4But when the kindness and love of God our Savior appeared, 5he saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy. He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit, 6whom he poured out on us generously through Jesus Christ our Savior, 7so that, having been justified by his grace, we might become heirs having the hope of eternal life. 8This is a trustworthy saying. And I want you to stress these things, so that those who have trusted in God may be careful to devote themselves to doing what is good. These things are excellent and profitable for everyone.

Now, Mr. cathedra, please explain to this old country boy how any of that scripture specifically speaks of  any kind of baptism, much less infant baptism?

Be most happy to Stucky
 There is no other washing except water baptism that Jesus HIM SELF instructs his christian church to use .  Thats  how we know.
 Now let me ask you some thing stucky

How can a baptist pastor perform believers baptism when he can't see into the heart and know if the one being baptized is a true believer or not?


 

GOD's word

Jeremiah 9:5

THE LORD SAYS .

 5 Friend deceives friend,
       and no one speaks the truth.
       They have taught their tongues to lie;
       they weary themselves with sinning.



 
Numbers 23:19
God is not a man, that he should lie, nor a son of man, that he should change his mind. Does he speak and then not act? Does he promise and not fulfill?





notice also the Bible text  below that it  does not say believe and "then be" baptised . It says believe and be.---  a simutaneous action.  .
Does God  speak and not act? Does he promise and not  fullfill?
Acts 2:38-39

 38Peter replied, "Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39The promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off—for all whom the Lord our God will call."



Acts 13:48
When the Gentiles heard this, they were glad and honored the word of the Lord; and all who were appointed for eternal life believed.

 Does God speak in the text above  and not act? does God  promise and not fullfill?

Gods blessings stucky.

[debra]

Once upon a time membership in some churchs was tentative upon successfully completing new member classes....and there was an oral exam at the end of it.

You had to be able to speak what we believed and why...classes took about a year.

They still do that here. I am still searching for a church, to be baptized, learn about God, and have researched every church in my small town. I felt I was being led to this southern baptist church, and I met with the minister twice before I attended a service. I went forward to accept Jesus and be baptized.

A few days later I received a letter informing me that I am required to do these classes, which last 3-4 hours per class, before I can join their church and be baptized. I phoned the minister and he confirmed this requirement.

For most it is not likely a problem, but for me, I have physical problems which prevents me from any 3-4 hour class.

I didn't go back nor have I heard back from them.

I am praying for God to lead me where He wants me to go.

[caldwelljr11]

I would call the pastor personally and explain your situation.  I actually like the fact that the church you are speaking of wishes to conduct some type of class (supposedly to make sure you are understanding the gospel and be made aware of the churches’ doctrine prior to being accepted as a member of the church).  This is actually an early church practice (but much shorter - the Alexanderian churches adopted a system that took a minimum of 3 years before baptism). 

An individual’s actual salvation is not in question (only God knows the heart), but churches should be careful about edification when they accept new members.

Hopefully you will find what you need.  I wish you the best.

[debra]

I would call the pastor personally and explain your situation.  I actually like the fact that the church you are speaking of wishes to conduct some type of class (supposedly to make sure you are understanding the gospel and be made aware of the churches’ doctrine prior to being accepted as a member of the church).  This is actually an early church practice (but much shorter - the Alexanderian churches adopted a system that took a minimum of 3 years before baptism). 

An individual’s actual salvation is not in question (only God knows the heart), but churches should be careful about edification when they accept new members.

Hopefully you will find what you need.  I wish you the best.

I did that. Before I ever attended the church I met with the minister twice. I was not told about these requirements until after I had gone forward, which I now believe was a horrible mistake and misunderstanding on my part. When I received their letter of demands I again spoke to the minister who did tell me those are required.

I am probably naive about how church works, but I did believe that if I asked, confessed, Jesus would come. It didn't happen, and I was left in deep emotional pain.

I don't think I will dare risk that kind of pain again.  I don't belong on this forum, and will go and wish you all the best.

[Holly3278]

I have been Southern Baptist since I was a toddler.  I am not exactly sure how one actually becomes a member.

[debra]

An update to my earlier replies to thi
I remained in contact with the baptist minister. He  runs that church and he is very rigid in his control. I received a letter demanding, and the demanding was in  bold font, that I attend the classes this month, or I am out. They also give tests to "find your gifts", and demand you do whatever job they assign.

I spoke to the minister again and he told me it was take the classes or don't come back.

I see things differently. It is one thing to hold a class to help new christians learn about things, and quite another to demand indoctrination classes (cult) and take tests and demand free labor. This, to me, not from God, but from the church elite getting people to work for them.

I believe God gives us gifts as He wants us to have and use. The baptist minister is not God.

[davidmac]

I would avoid that church! I am not a baptist-but I have a number of baptist friends that would surely tell you the same thing.

[debra]

I would avoid that church! I am not a baptist-but I have a number of baptist friends that would surely tell you the same thing.

I can't go back since I refuse to be indoctrinated. 

There has to be the right church out there for me and God will lead me there. I trust God. That baptist isn't God. 

[revmitchell]

The Southern Baptist Convention is a cooperative (not a denomination) that cooperates for the purpose of missions. All entities within the cooperative are antonymous. We have no hierarchy of any kind. Churches set up their own parameters for membership and leadership.

[Liz in OK]

Southern Baptist's churches are Baptist churches that agree to cooperate with the Southern Baptist Convention mainly to fund the Cooperative Program that has thousands of missionaries all over the world.

The SBC does not dictate to the cooperative Baptist church.  Each church has a specific number of messengers (not delegates) that may attend the Convention and vote for the leaders who administer the programs.  They may also vote on resolutions that declare what that attending body believes about things that are important for the church, like what they feel about abortion, women pastors, etc.  These things are not rules that each church must obey and believe, it is a consensus of the participating representative messengers.

Baptist church's are traditionally congregational ruled, Pastor led, which is why some churches without a strong leader have problems when there is opposition among the congregation on something (like the color of the carpet!).  The Baptist belief is that we are all Priests as the Bible says, and we are all the Church.  We submit to our Pastor/leader and deacons are servants of the church. 

There have been a lot of churches that have strayed away from this, especially the bigger and Mega churches.  Many are run like businesses.  Many have elected elders that does go against the Baptist Faith and Message that most churches traditionally accept. Elders are the Pastor/shepherd according to Baptists.  Yes, I know, some people will disagree with me on this because their church has elders, but they need to read more about Baptists.

Now, about what Baptist agree to believe.  The Baptist Faith and Message is the basic beliefs of Southern Baptist churches. Beyond the BF&M, each church may decide things like how someone joins their church, what baptism they will accept, etc.  I find it interesting that many Baptist churches do not ask new members to declare this.  Most I have belonged to just talked to the Pastor and he determined if the person had actually had a salvation experience. They probably ask the questions derived from the BF&M, though. Some Baptist churches will have prospective members go through a New Member Class so they know who they are joining and what Baptist's believe.  I wish churches approached church membership as a covenant with the members more.

You may read the Baptist Faith & Message here: http://www.sbc.net/bfm/bfm2000.asp

[davidmac]

Dear Sister,
I am not a baptist-but I have read a great deal of baptist history. You posted-

Yes, I know, some people will disagree with me on this because their church has elders, but they need to read more about Baptists.

I respectfully disagree. Henry C. Vedder, one of the most respected Baptist historians points out in his book on the short history of Baptists that the first baptist churches had a plurality of elders. This is also not new for Southern Baptists-

W. B. Johnson of South Carolina, and the first president of the Southern Baptist Convention wrote of the New
Testament churches that “each church had a plurality of elders.

[Norton]

As far as I know the only Biblical teaching on who to baptize and who not to baptize is the example of the conversion of the Ethiopian eunoch in the book of Acts. Phillip agreed to baptize him only if he believedin Christ as the Saviour. There didn't seem to be any other condition.  Evidently Phillip took the Ethiopian's word that he did believe and baptized him.

[stevehut]

ex, I know I'm coming in to this discussion a bit late, but...

In most churches I've seen, the first requirement is to be a member.  Which, I suppose, implies broad assent to the church doctrines.

[stevehut]

I have been Southern Baptist since I was a toddler.  I am not exactly sure how one actually becomes a member.

Holly, how did you become a member?

[stevehut]

Are you out there, Holly?

[pointmade]

Liz in OK:
"Most, I have belonged to just talked to the Pastor and he determined if the person had actually had a salvation experience. They probably ask the questions derived from the BF&M, though. Some Baptist churches will have prospective members go through a New Member Class so they know who they are joining and what Baptist's believe.  I wish churches approached church membership as a covenant with the members more."

The Southern Baptist adhere to Calvin's theology of miraculous regeneration of being "born again."
Note Liz: "the Pastor determined if the person had actually had a salvation EXPERIENCE."
Wow! a real prognosticator in the Baptist church. One of the Spiritual gifts I assume?

In other words, a sinner cannot read the Bible and come away with the answer by direct literary analysis of how to become a Christian in the mind of God.
He/she cannot be told as Philip informed the Ethiopian eunuch: Acts 8:26-39.
Ever have an "EXPERIENCE" as did Saul of Tarsus? (didn't think so) He met the "risen Lord on the road to Damascus."
Now, according to the Baptist church this would qualify him for admission into the Baptist church.

Not good enough for entrance into God's church as understood by a direct literary analysis.
Why Saul/Paul had to "go into the city and there it shall be told be TOLD you what you must do."
You may want to know what the preacher, Ananias  said to Saul/Paul about God's plan of salvation by reading Acts 22:16.
Now, you do not have to believe that if you would rather be checked for an EXPERIENCE by a Baptist "Pastor."

To the Baptist, one can be interrogated by a "Pastor" on his/her EXPERIENCE and make a decision on church membership.
Kind of like joining the Monkey Mutual Society. The grand pupa checks your credentials and the monkeys take a vote.

By direct literary analysis read Acts 2:37-47 and find where a Pastor checked the EXPERIENCE of those who "GLADLY RECEIVED THERE (APOSTLES) WORD AND WERE BAPTIZED"

Note the Word: "the SAME DAY there were ADDED unto them about three thousand souls." ( v. 41)
Luke, the inspired writer says, "and God added to the church daily those that were saved" (Acts 2:47).
Did God do the "adding"? or, did a "Pastor" check out the "three thousand" for an EXPERIENCE? A vote taken by the monkeys?

It takes professional help to miss how God "adds" to His church.
Want to be a Southern Baptist? have a miraculous change over; and be voted on by those who swing to the same doctrine.