GCM Home | Bible Search | Rules | Donate | Bookstore | RSS | Facebook | Twitter

Author Topic: Can't get there from here?  (Read 19850 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline crowcamp

  • Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 4000
  • Manna: 143
    • View Profile
Can't get there from here?
« on: August 30, 2011, 10:41:41 AM »
"I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one can come to the Father except through me." John 14:6

And he said, “This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father.

Christian Forums and Message Board

Can't get there from here?
« on: August 30, 2011, 10:41:41 AM »

Offline JohnDB

  • Global Moderator
  • Legendary Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7210
  • Manna: 187
  • Gender: Male
  • scarey isn't it?
    • View Profile
Re: Can't get there from here?
« Reply #1 on: August 30, 2011, 11:27:28 AM »
That this discussion belongs in Theology is my only thought

Christian Forums and Message Board

Re: Can't get there from here?
« Reply #1 on: August 30, 2011, 11:27:28 AM »

Offline crowcamp

  • Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 4000
  • Manna: 143
    • View Profile
Re: Can't get there from here?
« Reply #2 on: August 30, 2011, 11:38:03 AM »
Then move it.

Offline ela

  • 1 John 4:7-8
  • Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 2072
  • Manna: 206
  • Gender: Female
  • I wish I never put in that emotions chip!
    • View Profile
Re: Can't get there from here?
« Reply #3 on: August 30, 2011, 11:42:41 AM »
I think, 1st off, that Jesus was just stating a fact...about who He is and then, that He is the only way to the Father. Then Jesus was saying in 6:65 that salvation is a gift, and that it can not be had by working for it...it can only be "granted"...or given by the Father (because, it had already been paid for by God Himself).

 ::smile::

Christian Forums and Message Board

Re: Can't get there from here?
« Reply #3 on: August 30, 2011, 11:42:41 AM »

Offline crowcamp

  • Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 4000
  • Manna: 143
    • View Profile
Re: Can't get there from here?
« Reply #4 on: August 30, 2011, 12:26:16 PM »
I think, 1st off, that Jesus was just stating a fact...about who He is and then, that He is the only way to the Father. Then Jesus was saying in 6:65 that salvation is a gift, and that it can not be had by working for it...it can only be "granted"...or given by the Father (because, it had already been paid for by God Himself).

 ::smile::
So the Father sends us to Christ and Christ saves us and we get to the Father...................................... .... and it is all predestined? If that be the case then what is the point of us bringing others to Christ? If it is the will of the Father, what do we have to do with it? Oh, I suppose we could rationalize He is using us to bring others to Jesus, but what if we did nothing? Wouldn't those He has chosen find Jesus, anyway?

Christian Forums and Message Board

Re: Can't get there from here?
« Reply #4 on: August 30, 2011, 12:26:16 PM »



Offline Joyfullee

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1299
  • Manna: 64
  • Gender: Female
    • View Profile
Re: Can't get there from here?
« Reply #5 on: August 30, 2011, 12:49:19 PM »
I think, 1st off, that Jesus was just stating a fact...about who He is and then, that He is the only way to the Father. Then Jesus was saying in 6:65 that salvation is a gift, and that it can not be had by working for it...it can only be "granted"...or given by the Father (because, it had already been paid for by God Himself).

 ::smile::
So the Father sends us to Christ and Christ saves us and we get to the Father...................................... .... and it is all predestined? If that be the case then what is the point of us bringing others to Christ? If it is the will of the Father, what do we have to do with it? Oh, I suppose we could rationalize He is using us to bring others to Jesus, but what if we did nothing? Wouldn't those He has chosen find Jesus, anyway?

Looking at it from the other side, on judgment day, God can show the unbelievers how believer's brought them the message of salvation and they refused, it was their choice.

God knew from the beginning who would accept/receive Him and who would refuse.  He calls those (predestined) who He already knew would receive Him.

Blessings

Offline ela

  • 1 John 4:7-8
  • Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 2072
  • Manna: 206
  • Gender: Female
  • I wish I never put in that emotions chip!
    • View Profile
Re: Can't get there from here?
« Reply #6 on: August 30, 2011, 12:55:31 PM »
I think, 1st off, that Jesus was just stating a fact...about who He is and then, that He is the only way to the Father. Then Jesus was saying in 6:65 that salvation is a gift, and that it can not be had by working for it...it can only be "granted"...or given by the Father (because, it had already been paid for by God Himself).

 ::smile::
So the Father sends us to Christ and Christ saves us and we get to the Father...................................... .... and it is all predestined? If that be the case then what is the point of us bringing others to Christ? If it is the will of the Father, what do we have to do with it? Oh, I suppose we could rationalize He is using us to bring others to Jesus, but what if we did nothing? Wouldn't those He has chosen find Jesus, anyway?

Good points!! I remember a pastor once saying (about predestination) to picture the gates to heaven...and picture you standing there at the gates. Above the gates is a sign saying, "Whosoever will may come". Then, after you come thru the gates, you turn around and see a sign on the inside above the gates and it says, "Predestined"...so,  ::shrug::...I am still not sure either. All I know is, that I just love loving others! I enjoy, as I grow in trusting God more, being more like Christ to others and doing what Paul spoke about, "Being all things to all people"....but of course, I wish now, that there would be more people that would like to go with me or I with them (as a body, working together)  in showing Christ to our neighbors and the world. The Pastor I have now has this heart too, altho he has a big task ahead because of the people he has to deal with...as everyone wants to do their own thing.

Offline crowcamp

  • Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 4000
  • Manna: 143
    • View Profile
Re: Can't get there from here?
« Reply #7 on: August 30, 2011, 01:02:07 PM »
I think, 1st off, that Jesus was just stating a fact...about who He is and then, that He is the only way to the Father. Then Jesus was saying in 6:65 that salvation is a gift, and that it can not be had by working for it...it can only be "granted"...or given by the Father (because, it had already been paid for by God Himself).

 ::smile::
So the Father sends us to Christ and Christ saves us and we get to the Father...................................... .... and it is all predestined? If that be the case then what is the point of us bringing others to Christ? If it is the will of the Father, what do we have to do with it? Oh, I suppose we could rationalize He is using us to bring others to Jesus, but what if we did nothing? Wouldn't those He has chosen find Jesus, anyway?

Looking at it from the other side, on judgment day, God can show the unbelievers how believer's brought them the message of salvation and they refused, it was their choice.

God knew from the beginning who would accept/receive Him and who would refuse.  He calls those (predestined) who He already knew would receive Him.

Blessings
Does God have to "show" the unbelievers anything?

And "their choice"? Seems there is no choice- except God choosing us. Perhaps we can choose to walk away after having been chosen, but can do nothing about being chosen in the first place????

larry2

  • Guest
Re: Can't get there from here?
« Reply #8 on: August 30, 2011, 01:57:45 PM »
Welcome back Evan. Those God saw that accept His Son Jesus, He foreknew because He can see the end from the beginning, and those He foreknew He predestinated to be conformed like unto His Son. As to your question, Jesus is the only way to our Father; without the shedding of blood He shed for us, there is no remission for sin.

Ephesians 2:10 says we are His workmanship, or work in progress, and Philippians 2:13 says, For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure. God knew you would say yes; He is not the cause of your choice, but effectually works His grace in the lives to those that do receive His Son.

Does it make a difference whether we witness to others whether they're saved if they will be saved or lost regardless depending upon God foreknowledge of them? Proverbs 11:30 . . . he that winneth souls is wise. As with the women in scripture below, they were fellow laborers with Christ also.   

Below you will find that He knows who belong to Him, He writes those names in His book of life, He changes us unto the likeness of His Son, and He calls us, justifies us, and glorifies us. How does He see us as glorified? He sees only Jesus in us; we have already been judged as righteous in Christ.
 
2 Timothy 2:19  Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. . . 

Philippians 4:3  . . . help those women which laboured with me in the gospel, with Clement also, and with other my fellowlabourers, whose names are in the book of life.

Romans 8:29   For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

Romans 8:30   Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

God bless you brother in Jesus' name.

Offline crowcamp

  • Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 4000
  • Manna: 143
    • View Profile
Re: Can't get there from here?
« Reply #9 on: August 30, 2011, 02:25:20 PM »
Welcome back Evan. Those God saw that accept His Son Jesus, He foreknew because He can see the end from the beginning, and those He foreknew He predestinated to be conformed like unto His Son. As to your question, Jesus is the only way to our Father; without the shedding of blood He shed for us, there is no remission for sin.

Ephesians 2:10 says we are His workmanship, or work in progress, and Philippians 2:13 says, For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure. God knew you would say yes; He is not the cause of your choice, but effectually works His grace in the lives to those that do receive His Son.

Does it make a difference whether we witness to others whether they're saved if they will be saved or lost regardless depending upon God foreknowledge of them? Proverbs 11:30 . . . he that winneth souls is wise. As with the women in scripture below, they were fellow laborers with Christ also.   

Below you will find that He knows who belong to Him, He writes those names in His book of life, He changes us unto the likeness of His Son, and He calls us, justifies us, and glorifies us. How does He see us as glorified? He sees only Jesus in us; we have already been judged as righteous in Christ.
 
2 Timothy 2:19  Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. . . 

Philippians 4:3  . . . help those women which laboured with me in the gospel, with Clement also, and with other my fellowlabourers, whose names are in the book of life.

Romans 8:29   For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

Romans 8:30   Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

God bless you brother in Jesus' name.
So I am still left to question how anyone has anything to do with the salvation of another. God has predetermined, and only those chosen are received in Christ, and only those received in Christ have remission of sin. Logic would lead one to understand that mere mortals bring no one to salvation. Salvation comes only to those God choses- regardless of great effort or total absence of effort by mankind.

So.......................................... .................. if that is true, what's the point in....................... a whole lot of things?

Offline Bitter Sweet

  • Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 3263
  • Manna: 48
  • Gender: Female
    • View Profile
Re: Can't get there from here?
« Reply #10 on: August 30, 2011, 03:07:33 PM »
So I am still left to question how anyone has anything to do with the salvation of another. God has predetermined, and only those chosen are received in Christ, and only those received in Christ have remission of sin. Logic would lead one to understand that mere mortals bring no one to salvation. Salvation comes only to those God choses- regardless of great effort or total absence of effort by mankind.

So.......................................... .................. if that is true, what's the point in....................... a whole lot of things?

Awe, look at the pearl,  ::smile::. I'm buying the field!

Offline crowcamp

  • Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 4000
  • Manna: 143
    • View Profile
Re: Can't get there from here?
« Reply #11 on: August 30, 2011, 03:34:02 PM »
So I am still left to question how anyone has anything to do with the salvation of another. God has predetermined, and only those chosen are received in Christ, and only those received in Christ have remission of sin. Logic would lead one to understand that mere mortals bring no one to salvation. Salvation comes only to those God choses- regardless of great effort or total absence of effort by mankind.

So.......................................... .................. if that is true, what's the point in....................... a whole lot of things?

Awe, look at the pearl,  ::smile::. I'm buying the field!


????????? Ya lost me there, BS.

Offline Lively Stone

  • Lee's Inner Circle Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 17265
  • Manna: 513
    • View Profile
Re: Can't get there from here?
« Reply #12 on: August 30, 2011, 03:36:33 PM »
I think, 1st off, that Jesus was just stating a fact...about who He is and then, that He is the only way to the Father. Then Jesus was saying in 6:65 that salvation is a gift, and that it can not be had by working for it...it can only be "granted"...or given by the Father (because, it had already been paid for by God Himself).

 ::smile::
So the Father sends us to Christ and Christ saves us and we get to the Father...................................... .... and it is all predestined? If that be the case then what is the point of us bringing others to Christ? If it is the will of the Father, what do we have to do with it? Oh, I suppose we could rationalize He is using us to bring others to Jesus, but what if we did nothing? Wouldn't those He has chosen find Jesus, anyway?

The point is that we don't know who is predestined or not. We are destined to influence people for Christ. We have a mandate to preach the Gospel to every creature, and we need to set about obeying God....so that we can meet our predestined reward.

Offline Bitter Sweet

  • Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 3263
  • Manna: 48
  • Gender: Female
    • View Profile
Re: Can't get there from here?
« Reply #13 on: August 30, 2011, 04:21:13 PM »
So I am still left to question how anyone has anything to do with the salvation of another. God has predetermined, and only those chosen are received in Christ, and only those received in Christ have remission of sin. Logic would lead one to understand that mere mortals bring no one to salvation. Salvation comes only to those God choses- regardless of great effort or total absence of effort by mankind.

So.......................................... .................. if that is true, what's the point in....................... a whole lot of things?

Awe, look at the pearl,  ::smile::. I'm buying the field!


????????? Ya lost me there, BS.

I was just agreeing with you. You made really good point.

Isaiah 65:1  “I revealed myself to those who did not ask for me;
   I was found by those who did not seek me.
To a nation that did not call on my name,
   I said, ‘Here am I, here am I.’


Offline Joyfullee

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1299
  • Manna: 64
  • Gender: Female
    • View Profile
Re: Can't get there from here?
« Reply #14 on: August 30, 2011, 04:53:12 PM »
I think, 1st off, that Jesus was just stating a fact...about who He is and then, that He is the only way to the Father. Then Jesus was saying in 6:65 that salvation is a gift, and that it can not be had by working for it...it can only be "granted"...or given by the Father (because, it had already been paid for by God Himself).

 ::smile::
So the Father sends us to Christ and Christ saves us and we get to the Father...................................... .... and it is all predestined? If that be the case then what is the point of us bringing others to Christ? If it is the will of the Father, what do we have to do with it? Oh, I suppose we could rationalize He is using us to bring others to Jesus, but what if we did nothing? Wouldn't those He has chosen find Jesus, anyway?

Looking at it from the other side, on judgment day, God can show the unbelievers how believer's brought them the message of salvation and they refused, it was their choice.

God knew from the beginning who would accept/receive Him and who would refuse.  He calls those (predestined) who He already knew would receive Him.

Blessings
Does God have to "show" the unbelievers anything?

And "their choice"? Seems there is no choice- except God choosing us. Perhaps we can choose to walk away after having been chosen, but can do nothing about being chosen in the first place????

Do you think that God just made some people special, to be saved?  I don't.  He knew from the very beginning who would receive Him and who would reject Him.  For God so loved the WORLD, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believes in Him has everlasting life.   Jesus died for everyone's sins.  That means every single person.

Predestined, is predestined to be conformed to the image of Christ.   

No, He doesn't have to show unbeliever's anything. But I do think He'll run their lives or words before them.  It is each person's choice.

Blessings