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Author Topic: Can't get there from here?  (Read 20012 times)

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Offline chosenone

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Re: Can't get there from here?
« Reply #15 on: August 30, 2011, 04:58:47 PM »
It also says that He doesnt want ANYONE to be lost.

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Re: Can't get there from here?
« Reply #15 on: August 30, 2011, 04:58:47 PM »

Offline crowcamp

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Re: Can't get there from here?
« Reply #16 on: August 30, 2011, 05:36:47 PM »
So I am still left to question how anyone has anything to do with the salvation of another. God has predetermined, and only those chosen are received in Christ, and only those received in Christ have remission of sin. Logic would lead one to understand that mere mortals bring no one to salvation. Salvation comes only to those God choses- regardless of great effort or total absence of effort by mankind.

So.......................................... .................. if that is true, what's the point in....................... a whole lot of things?

Awe, look at the pearl,  ::smile::. I'm buying the field!


????????? Ya lost me there, BS.

I was just agreeing with you. You made really good point.

Isaiah 65:1  “I revealed myself to those who did not ask for me;
   I was found by those who did not seek me.
To a nation that did not call on my name,
   I said, ‘Here am I, here am I.’


Thank you, I just didn't understand the response.

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Re: Can't get there from here?
« Reply #16 on: August 30, 2011, 05:36:47 PM »

Offline Bitter Sweet

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Re: Can't get there from here?
« Reply #17 on: August 30, 2011, 05:42:09 PM »
So I am still left to question how anyone has anything to do with the salvation of another. God has predetermined, and only those chosen are received in Christ, and only those received in Christ have remission of sin. Logic would lead one to understand that mere mortals bring no one to salvation. Salvation comes only to those God choses- regardless of great effort or total absence of effort by mankind.

So.......................................... .................. if that is true, what's the point in....................... a whole lot of things?

Awe, look at the pearl,  ::smile::. I'm buying the field!


????????? Ya lost me there, BS.

I was just agreeing with you. You made really good point.

Isaiah 65:1  “I revealed myself to those who did not ask for me;
   I was found by those who did not seek me.
To a nation that did not call on my name,
   I said, ‘Here am I, here am I.’


Thank you, I just didn't understand the response.

To be more specific, you are the pearl.  ::smile::

Offline Bitter Sweet

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Re: Can't get there from here?
« Reply #18 on: August 30, 2011, 05:43:31 PM »
It also says that He doesnt want ANYONE to be lost.


Matthew 22:14 “For many are invited, but few are chosen.

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Re: Can't get there from here?
« Reply #18 on: August 30, 2011, 05:43:31 PM »

Offline crowcamp

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Re: Can't get there from here?
« Reply #19 on: August 30, 2011, 05:54:08 PM »
So I am still left to question how anyone has anything to do with the salvation of another. God has predetermined, and only those chosen are received in Christ, and only those received in Christ have remission of sin. Logic would lead one to understand that mere mortals bring no one to salvation. Salvation comes only to those God choses- regardless of great effort or total absence of effort by mankind.

So.......................................... .................. if that is true, what's the point in....................... a whole lot of things?

Awe, look at the pearl,  ::smile::. I'm buying the field!


????????? Ya lost me there, BS.

I was just agreeing with you. You made really good point.

Isaiah 65:1  “I revealed myself to those who did not ask for me;
   I was found by those who did not seek me.
To a nation that did not call on my name,
   I said, ‘Here am I, here am I.’


Thank you, I just didn't understand the response.

To be more specific, you are the pearl.  ::smile::
No, not even close. I am just someone who becomes more confused with the passing of time and the gleaning of knowledge. Not sure it's supposed to work that way.

If those to be saved were chosen before the foundation of the earth, then there is a whole bunch of stuff going on that is completely pointless.

And I have a strong feeling I am not among the chosen.

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Re: Can't get there from here?
« Reply #19 on: August 30, 2011, 05:54:08 PM »



Offline ela

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Re: Can't get there from here?
« Reply #20 on: August 30, 2011, 06:08:17 PM »
So I am still left to question how anyone has anything to do with the salvation of another. God has predetermined, and only those chosen are received in Christ, and only those received in Christ have remission of sin. Logic would lead one to understand that mere mortals bring no one to salvation. Salvation comes only to those God choses- regardless of great effort or total absence of effort by mankind.

So.......................................... .................. if that is true, what's the point in....................... a whole lot of things?

Awe, look at the pearl,  ::smile::. I'm buying the field!


????????? Ya lost me there, BS.

I was just agreeing with you. You made really good point.

Isaiah 65:1  “I revealed myself to those who did not ask for me;
   I was found by those who did not seek me.
To a nation that did not call on my name,
   I said, ‘Here am I, here am I.’


Thank you, I just didn't understand the response.

To be more specific, you are the pearl.  ::smile::
No, not even close. I am just someone who becomes more confused with the passing of time and the gleaning of knowledge. Not sure it's supposed to work that way.

If those to be saved were chosen before the foundation of the earth, then there is a whole bunch of stuff going on that is completely pointless.

And I have a strong feeling I am not among the chosen.

Why would you say you are not among the chosen???

Offline crowcamp

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Re: Can't get there from here?
« Reply #21 on: August 30, 2011, 06:22:44 PM »
So I am still left to question how anyone has anything to do with the salvation of another. God has predetermined, and only those chosen are received in Christ, and only those received in Christ have remission of sin. Logic would lead one to understand that mere mortals bring no one to salvation. Salvation comes only to those God choses- regardless of great effort or total absence of effort by mankind.

So.......................................... .................. if that is true, what's the point in....................... a whole lot of things?

Awe, look at the pearl,  ::smile::. I'm buying the field!


????????? Ya lost me there, BS.

I was just agreeing with you. You made really good point.

Isaiah 65:1  “I revealed myself to those who did not ask for me;
   I was found by those who did not seek me.
To a nation that did not call on my name,
   I said, ‘Here am I, here am I.’


Thank you, I just didn't understand the response.

To be more specific, you are the pearl.  ::smile::
No, not even close. I am just someone who becomes more confused with the passing of time and the gleaning of knowledge. Not sure it's supposed to work that way.

If those to be saved were chosen before the foundation of the earth, then there is a whole bunch of stuff going on that is completely pointless.

And I have a strong feeling I am not among the chosen.

Why would you say you are not among the chosen???
I would think those that are chosen and have acknowledged Christ as Savior would then be certain of both. I am not.

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Re: Can't get there from here?
« Reply #22 on: August 30, 2011, 06:45:51 PM »
Evan, you have all the signs of a person looking at you through your own eyes. Romans Chapter Seven tells of the Apostle Paul observing himself and exclaiming "Oh wretched man that I am." But you see, God only sees us the new creation in Christ; to rid yourself of hopelessness you must see yourself as that pearl BetterSweet mentioned; God sold all He had to purchase you, and He isn't going to lose you.

Romans 7:15  For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
 
Romans 7:19  For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
 
Romans 7:25  I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.
 
Romans 8:1. There is therefore (Looking back at everything he just said) now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus. 

Colossians 3:3  For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.
 
Dear brother, do not allow circumstance determine your standing in Christ; Paul suffered the following as just a part of what God allow him to go through. 2 Corinthians 11:25  Thrice was I beaten with rods, once was I stoned, thrice I suffered shipwreck, a night and a day I have been in the deep;
 
Hebrews 13:5  Let your conversation (Manner of life) be without covetousness; and be content with such things as ye have: for he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee.

Your worth is far above your fondest hope; Christ died for us when we were sinners without hope; Jesus is now Christ in us, the hope of glory. An old missionary come home from overseas after his years of work in the field ended up on the West Coast broke, a small suitcase with everything he owned, and just enough to sleep in a flophouse for the night. There was no one to greet him, and as he reflected on the circumstances Teddy Roosevelt just came off a cruise to be met by a large crowd, a marching band and all kinds of hoopla. The poor old saint thought God, I've given my life for You, I'm ill, broken, and tired; how is this that the president gets all this ceremony and I end up like this? Dear son, you ain't home yet. And Even, I just made up parts of this as I don't remember the full details, but many saints suffered things that the world was not worthy of; read through Hebrews Chapter Eleven. Even Elijah felt alone as he said in 1 Kings 19:10  And he said, I have been very jealous for the LORD God of hosts. . . and I, even I only, am left; and they seek my life, to take it away.


Offline Lively Stone

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Re: Can't get there from here?
« Reply #23 on: August 30, 2011, 06:56:25 PM »
It also says that He doesnt want ANYONE to be lost.

So right, sister!

2 Peter 3:9
The Lord isn’t really being slow about his promise, as some people think. No, he is being patient for your sake. He does not want anyone to be destroyed, but wants everyone to repent.

Offline Debrah

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Re: Can't get there from here?
« Reply #24 on: August 30, 2011, 07:03:41 PM »
God does not force people to love Him, and spend eternity with Him ::pokingwithstick::...God gives us the choice, to except His grace, ::kissing:: and make Him Lord of our lives.  Predestination is messed up theology from the Calvinist doctrines of belief ::frown::...
---------
"Predestination, in Calvinistic theology, is the doctrine that all events have been willed by God. John Calvin interpreted biblical predestination to mean that God willed eternal damnation for some people and salvation for others." ::descernment::

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Predestination

Offline P.F.

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Re: Can't get there from here?
« Reply #25 on: August 30, 2011, 07:19:02 PM »
I think, 1st off, that Jesus was just stating a fact...about who He is and then, that He is the only way to the Father. Then Jesus was saying in 6:65 that salvation is a gift, and that it can not be had by working for it...it can only be "granted"...or given by the Father (because, it had already been paid for by God Himself).

 ::smile::
So the Father sends us to Christ and Christ saves us and we get to the Father...................................... .... and it is all predestined? If that be the case then what is the point of us bringing others to Christ? If it is the will of the Father, what do we have to do with it? Oh, I suppose we could rationalize He is using us to bring others to Jesus, but what if we did nothing? Wouldn't those He has chosen find Jesus, anyway?

Looking at it from the other side, on judgment day, God can show the unbelievers how believer's brought them the message of salvation and they refused, it was their choice.

God knew from the beginning who would accept/receive Him and who would refuse.  He calls those (predestined) who He already knew would receive Him.

Blessings
Does God have to "show" the unbelievers anything?

And "their choice"? Seems there is no choice- except God choosing us. Perhaps we can choose to walk away after having been chosen, but can do nothing about being chosen in the first place????

Do you think that God just made some people special, to be saved?  I don't.  He knew from the very beginning who would receive Him and who would reject Him.  For God so loved the WORLD, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believes in Him has everlasting life.   Jesus died for everyone's sins.  That means every single person.

Predestined, is predestined to be conformed to the image of Christ.   

No, He doesn't have to show unbeliever's anything. But I do think He'll run their lives or words before them.  It is each person's choice.

Blessings

It is also God's choice.  God chooses

Offline Lively Stone

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Re: Can't get there from here?
« Reply #26 on: August 30, 2011, 07:37:11 PM »
Actually, it is our choice to receive the Saviour who has offered Himself and His life's blood for us.

God doesn't do the choosing. He already did everything for us so that we could make a good choice. Easy.

Offline MrsHawk

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Re: Can't get there from here?
« Reply #27 on: August 30, 2011, 07:49:12 PM »
Hi Crowcamp......I understand how you feel....I totally know this struggle....

I figured if God knows everything, and he knows those who would turn from him....why let them be born?...Why not take them before the age of accountability so they would be with him?...
If he just wanted to sit up there and watch people struggle and and hurt in this world and know that well they arent going to make it anyways...........Well that would just be cruel.....

When I came to God it was in fear....and I wanted to save the world...out of fear that God would cast them away if they were not saved! I wanted to save people FROM God.......

Now after many years I came to find out that God is LOVE.....He really is!.....I learned that when I walk in fear I am not walking in the Spirit...because the Spirit is love...God is love...and there is no fear in love....

I realized that what I believed ...that God was some severe mean God who was just playing games with us...was really wrong....

I know God is love.....
Now as far as the predestination.....I really do not know for sure but I feel it may refer to his teachers and leaders...ones he can do mighty works through.......to show the world who he is......
I believe anyone can be saved........there is no one that God looks at as a baby and says this one will never be saved.......God is not like that.....

God is also a just God.......He is not going to take a man who has lived 60 years trying to do his best and put him in a fiery hell for trilions of years even if the man never said he believed in him........God hates unjust balances and that would be terribly unbalanced.......

It even says that as the first Adam put us all under death by his fall...the second Adam (Jesus) gave us all life...........well part of me hopes that that is saying everyone is saved but many just do not come to the knowledge of it in this life......

I dont know....I know a lot of this sounds way off....but I do know my God now....I do know He is love.....and I know he loves everyone and will not be cruel to anyone......
As far as letting people know about God....if they come to God now they can live in Him....they can live in peace and joy and love......the fruits of the Spirit......its much better than living in this world without God....

Offline P.F.

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Re: Can't get there from here?
« Reply #28 on: August 30, 2011, 07:49:51 PM »
Actually, it is our choice to receive the Saviour who has offered Himself and His life's blood for us.

God doesn't do the choosing. He already did everything for us so that we could make a good choice. Easy.

Lively says "God doesn't do the choosing. He already did everything for us so that we could make a good choice. Easy."

God's Word says in Ephesians 1:

"4According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

 5Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

 6To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved."


Lively, I will stick with the very words inspired by God.  If you want to discuss the manner of His choosing, that is another matter.

Offline Lively Stone

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Re: Can't get there from here?
« Reply #29 on: August 30, 2011, 07:55:10 PM »

God is also a just God.......He is not going to take a man who has lived 60 years trying to do his best and put him in a fiery hell for trilions of years even if the man never said he believed in him........God hates unjust balances and that would be terribly unbalanced.......

God disagrees with that! It would be unjust to allow evil to enter the Kingdom.

Quote
It even says that as the first Adam put us all under death by his fall...the second Adam (Jesus) gave us all life...........well part of me hopes that that is saying everyone is saved but many just do not come to the knowledge of it in this life.....

This is the heresy of Universal Reconciliation. Only those who put their trust in Jesus Christ have the right to be called sons of God and will receive the Kingdom.

It's one thing to have compassion for someone who is searching for truth, but feed him truth.