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Author Topic: Can't get there from here?  (Read 21157 times)

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crowcamp

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Can't get there from here?
« on: Tue Aug 30, 2011 - 11:41:41 »
"I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one can come to the Father except through me." John 14:6

And he said, “This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father.

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Can't get there from here?
« on: Tue Aug 30, 2011 - 11:41:41 »

Offline JohnDB

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Re: Can't get there from here?
« Reply #1 on: Tue Aug 30, 2011 - 12:27:28 »
That this discussion belongs in Theology is my only thought

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Re: Can't get there from here?
« Reply #1 on: Tue Aug 30, 2011 - 12:27:28 »

crowcamp

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Re: Can't get there from here?
« Reply #2 on: Tue Aug 30, 2011 - 12:38:03 »
Then move it.

Offline ela

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Re: Can't get there from here?
« Reply #3 on: Tue Aug 30, 2011 - 12:42:41 »
I think, 1st off, that Jesus was just stating a fact...about who He is and then, that He is the only way to the Father. Then Jesus was saying in 6:65 that salvation is a gift, and that it can not be had by working for it...it can only be "granted"...or given by the Father (because, it had already been paid for by God Himself).

 ::smile::

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Re: Can't get there from here?
« Reply #3 on: Tue Aug 30, 2011 - 12:42:41 »

crowcamp

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Re: Can't get there from here?
« Reply #4 on: Tue Aug 30, 2011 - 13:26:16 »
I think, 1st off, that Jesus was just stating a fact...about who He is and then, that He is the only way to the Father. Then Jesus was saying in 6:65 that salvation is a gift, and that it can not be had by working for it...it can only be "granted"...or given by the Father (because, it had already been paid for by God Himself).

 ::smile::
So the Father sends us to Christ and Christ saves us and we get to the Father...................................... .... and it is all predestined? If that be the case then what is the point of us bringing others to Christ? If it is the will of the Father, what do we have to do with it? Oh, I suppose we could rationalize He is using us to bring others to Jesus, but what if we did nothing? Wouldn't those He has chosen find Jesus, anyway?

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Re: Can't get there from here?
« Reply #4 on: Tue Aug 30, 2011 - 13:26:16 »



Offline Joyfullee

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Re: Can't get there from here?
« Reply #5 on: Tue Aug 30, 2011 - 13:49:19 »
I think, 1st off, that Jesus was just stating a fact...about who He is and then, that He is the only way to the Father. Then Jesus was saying in 6:65 that salvation is a gift, and that it can not be had by working for it...it can only be "granted"...or given by the Father (because, it had already been paid for by God Himself).

 ::smile::
So the Father sends us to Christ and Christ saves us and we get to the Father...................................... .... and it is all predestined? If that be the case then what is the point of us bringing others to Christ? If it is the will of the Father, what do we have to do with it? Oh, I suppose we could rationalize He is using us to bring others to Jesus, but what if we did nothing? Wouldn't those He has chosen find Jesus, anyway?

Looking at it from the other side, on judgment day, God can show the unbelievers how believer's brought them the message of salvation and they refused, it was their choice.

God knew from the beginning who would accept/receive Him and who would refuse.  He calls those (predestined) who He already knew would receive Him.

Blessings

Offline ela

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Re: Can't get there from here?
« Reply #6 on: Tue Aug 30, 2011 - 13:55:31 »
I think, 1st off, that Jesus was just stating a fact...about who He is and then, that He is the only way to the Father. Then Jesus was saying in 6:65 that salvation is a gift, and that it can not be had by working for it...it can only be "granted"...or given by the Father (because, it had already been paid for by God Himself).

 ::smile::
So the Father sends us to Christ and Christ saves us and we get to the Father...................................... .... and it is all predestined? If that be the case then what is the point of us bringing others to Christ? If it is the will of the Father, what do we have to do with it? Oh, I suppose we could rationalize He is using us to bring others to Jesus, but what if we did nothing? Wouldn't those He has chosen find Jesus, anyway?

Good points!! I remember a pastor once saying (about predestination) to picture the gates to heaven...and picture you standing there at the gates. Above the gates is a sign saying, "Whosoever will may come". Then, after you come thru the gates, you turn around and see a sign on the inside above the gates and it says, "Predestined"...so,  ::shrug::...I am still not sure either. All I know is, that I just love loving others! I enjoy, as I grow in trusting God more, being more like Christ to others and doing what Paul spoke about, "Being all things to all people"....but of course, I wish now, that there would be more people that would like to go with me or I with them (as a body, working together)  in showing Christ to our neighbors and the world. The Pastor I have now has this heart too, altho he has a big task ahead because of the people he has to deal with...as everyone wants to do their own thing.

crowcamp

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Re: Can't get there from here?
« Reply #7 on: Tue Aug 30, 2011 - 14:02:07 »
I think, 1st off, that Jesus was just stating a fact...about who He is and then, that He is the only way to the Father. Then Jesus was saying in 6:65 that salvation is a gift, and that it can not be had by working for it...it can only be "granted"...or given by the Father (because, it had already been paid for by God Himself).

 ::smile::
So the Father sends us to Christ and Christ saves us and we get to the Father...................................... .... and it is all predestined? If that be the case then what is the point of us bringing others to Christ? If it is the will of the Father, what do we have to do with it? Oh, I suppose we could rationalize He is using us to bring others to Jesus, but what if we did nothing? Wouldn't those He has chosen find Jesus, anyway?

Looking at it from the other side, on judgment day, God can show the unbelievers how believer's brought them the message of salvation and they refused, it was their choice.

God knew from the beginning who would accept/receive Him and who would refuse.  He calls those (predestined) who He already knew would receive Him.

Blessings
Does God have to "show" the unbelievers anything?

And "their choice"? Seems there is no choice- except God choosing us. Perhaps we can choose to walk away after having been chosen, but can do nothing about being chosen in the first place????

larry2

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Re: Can't get there from here?
« Reply #8 on: Tue Aug 30, 2011 - 14:57:45 »
Welcome back Evan. Those God saw that accept His Son Jesus, He foreknew because He can see the end from the beginning, and those He foreknew He predestinated to be conformed like unto His Son. As to your question, Jesus is the only way to our Father; without the shedding of blood He shed for us, there is no remission for sin.

Ephesians 2:10 says we are His workmanship, or work in progress, and Philippians 2:13 says, For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure. God knew you would say yes; He is not the cause of your choice, but effectually works His grace in the lives to those that do receive His Son.

Does it make a difference whether we witness to others whether they're saved if they will be saved or lost regardless depending upon God foreknowledge of them? Proverbs 11:30 . . . he that winneth souls is wise. As with the women in scripture below, they were fellow laborers with Christ also.   

Below you will find that He knows who belong to Him, He writes those names in His book of life, He changes us unto the likeness of His Son, and He calls us, justifies us, and glorifies us. How does He see us as glorified? He sees only Jesus in us; we have already been judged as righteous in Christ.
 
2 Timothy 2:19  Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. . . 

Philippians 4:3  . . . help those women which laboured with me in the gospel, with Clement also, and with other my fellowlabourers, whose names are in the book of life.

Romans 8:29   For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

Romans 8:30   Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

God bless you brother in Jesus' name.

crowcamp

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Re: Can't get there from here?
« Reply #9 on: Tue Aug 30, 2011 - 15:25:20 »
Welcome back Evan. Those God saw that accept His Son Jesus, He foreknew because He can see the end from the beginning, and those He foreknew He predestinated to be conformed like unto His Son. As to your question, Jesus is the only way to our Father; without the shedding of blood He shed for us, there is no remission for sin.

Ephesians 2:10 says we are His workmanship, or work in progress, and Philippians 2:13 says, For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure. God knew you would say yes; He is not the cause of your choice, but effectually works His grace in the lives to those that do receive His Son.

Does it make a difference whether we witness to others whether they're saved if they will be saved or lost regardless depending upon God foreknowledge of them? Proverbs 11:30 . . . he that winneth souls is wise. As with the women in scripture below, they were fellow laborers with Christ also.   

Below you will find that He knows who belong to Him, He writes those names in His book of life, He changes us unto the likeness of His Son, and He calls us, justifies us, and glorifies us. How does He see us as glorified? He sees only Jesus in us; we have already been judged as righteous in Christ.
 
2 Timothy 2:19  Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. . . 

Philippians 4:3  . . . help those women which laboured with me in the gospel, with Clement also, and with other my fellowlabourers, whose names are in the book of life.

Romans 8:29   For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

Romans 8:30   Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

God bless you brother in Jesus' name.
So I am still left to question how anyone has anything to do with the salvation of another. God has predetermined, and only those chosen are received in Christ, and only those received in Christ have remission of sin. Logic would lead one to understand that mere mortals bring no one to salvation. Salvation comes only to those God choses- regardless of great effort or total absence of effort by mankind.

So.......................................... .................. if that is true, what's the point in....................... a whole lot of things?

Offline Bitter Sweet

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Re: Can't get there from here?
« Reply #10 on: Tue Aug 30, 2011 - 16:07:33 »
So I am still left to question how anyone has anything to do with the salvation of another. God has predetermined, and only those chosen are received in Christ, and only those received in Christ have remission of sin. Logic would lead one to understand that mere mortals bring no one to salvation. Salvation comes only to those God choses- regardless of great effort or total absence of effort by mankind.

So.......................................... .................. if that is true, what's the point in....................... a whole lot of things?

Awe, look at the pearl,  ::smile::. I'm buying the field!

crowcamp

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Re: Can't get there from here?
« Reply #11 on: Tue Aug 30, 2011 - 16:34:02 »
So I am still left to question how anyone has anything to do with the salvation of another. God has predetermined, and only those chosen are received in Christ, and only those received in Christ have remission of sin. Logic would lead one to understand that mere mortals bring no one to salvation. Salvation comes only to those God choses- regardless of great effort or total absence of effort by mankind.

So.......................................... .................. if that is true, what's the point in....................... a whole lot of things?

Awe, look at the pearl,  ::smile::. I'm buying the field!


????????? Ya lost me there, BS.

Offline Lively Stone

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Re: Can't get there from here?
« Reply #12 on: Tue Aug 30, 2011 - 16:36:33 »
I think, 1st off, that Jesus was just stating a fact...about who He is and then, that He is the only way to the Father. Then Jesus was saying in 6:65 that salvation is a gift, and that it can not be had by working for it...it can only be "granted"...or given by the Father (because, it had already been paid for by God Himself).

 ::smile::
So the Father sends us to Christ and Christ saves us and we get to the Father...................................... .... and it is all predestined? If that be the case then what is the point of us bringing others to Christ? If it is the will of the Father, what do we have to do with it? Oh, I suppose we could rationalize He is using us to bring others to Jesus, but what if we did nothing? Wouldn't those He has chosen find Jesus, anyway?

The point is that we don't know who is predestined or not. We are destined to influence people for Christ. We have a mandate to preach the Gospel to every creature, and we need to set about obeying God....so that we can meet our predestined reward.

Offline Bitter Sweet

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Re: Can't get there from here?
« Reply #13 on: Tue Aug 30, 2011 - 17:21:13 »
So I am still left to question how anyone has anything to do with the salvation of another. God has predetermined, and only those chosen are received in Christ, and only those received in Christ have remission of sin. Logic would lead one to understand that mere mortals bring no one to salvation. Salvation comes only to those God choses- regardless of great effort or total absence of effort by mankind.

So.......................................... .................. if that is true, what's the point in....................... a whole lot of things?

Awe, look at the pearl,  ::smile::. I'm buying the field!


????????? Ya lost me there, BS.

I was just agreeing with you. You made really good point.

Isaiah 65:1  “I revealed myself to those who did not ask for me;
   I was found by those who did not seek me.
To a nation that did not call on my name,
   I said, ‘Here am I, here am I.’


Offline Joyfullee

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Re: Can't get there from here?
« Reply #14 on: Tue Aug 30, 2011 - 17:53:12 »
I think, 1st off, that Jesus was just stating a fact...about who He is and then, that He is the only way to the Father. Then Jesus was saying in 6:65 that salvation is a gift, and that it can not be had by working for it...it can only be "granted"...or given by the Father (because, it had already been paid for by God Himself).

 ::smile::
So the Father sends us to Christ and Christ saves us and we get to the Father...................................... .... and it is all predestined? If that be the case then what is the point of us bringing others to Christ? If it is the will of the Father, what do we have to do with it? Oh, I suppose we could rationalize He is using us to bring others to Jesus, but what if we did nothing? Wouldn't those He has chosen find Jesus, anyway?

Looking at it from the other side, on judgment day, God can show the unbelievers how believer's brought them the message of salvation and they refused, it was their choice.

God knew from the beginning who would accept/receive Him and who would refuse.  He calls those (predestined) who He already knew would receive Him.

Blessings
Does God have to "show" the unbelievers anything?

And "their choice"? Seems there is no choice- except God choosing us. Perhaps we can choose to walk away after having been chosen, but can do nothing about being chosen in the first place????

Do you think that God just made some people special, to be saved?  I don't.  He knew from the very beginning who would receive Him and who would reject Him.  For God so loved the WORLD, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believes in Him has everlasting life.   Jesus died for everyone's sins.  That means every single person.

Predestined, is predestined to be conformed to the image of Christ.   

No, He doesn't have to show unbeliever's anything. But I do think He'll run their lives or words before them.  It is each person's choice.

Blessings

Offline chosenone

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Re: Can't get there from here?
« Reply #15 on: Tue Aug 30, 2011 - 17:58:47 »
It also says that He doesnt want ANYONE to be lost.

crowcamp

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Re: Can't get there from here?
« Reply #16 on: Tue Aug 30, 2011 - 18:36:47 »
So I am still left to question how anyone has anything to do with the salvation of another. God has predetermined, and only those chosen are received in Christ, and only those received in Christ have remission of sin. Logic would lead one to understand that mere mortals bring no one to salvation. Salvation comes only to those God choses- regardless of great effort or total absence of effort by mankind.

So.......................................... .................. if that is true, what's the point in....................... a whole lot of things?

Awe, look at the pearl,  ::smile::. I'm buying the field!


????????? Ya lost me there, BS.

I was just agreeing with you. You made really good point.

Isaiah 65:1  “I revealed myself to those who did not ask for me;
   I was found by those who did not seek me.
To a nation that did not call on my name,
   I said, ‘Here am I, here am I.’


Thank you, I just didn't understand the response.

Offline Bitter Sweet

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Re: Can't get there from here?
« Reply #17 on: Tue Aug 30, 2011 - 18:42:09 »
So I am still left to question how anyone has anything to do with the salvation of another. God has predetermined, and only those chosen are received in Christ, and only those received in Christ have remission of sin. Logic would lead one to understand that mere mortals bring no one to salvation. Salvation comes only to those God choses- regardless of great effort or total absence of effort by mankind.

So.......................................... .................. if that is true, what's the point in....................... a whole lot of things?

Awe, look at the pearl,  ::smile::. I'm buying the field!


????????? Ya lost me there, BS.

I was just agreeing with you. You made really good point.

Isaiah 65:1  “I revealed myself to those who did not ask for me;
   I was found by those who did not seek me.
To a nation that did not call on my name,
   I said, ‘Here am I, here am I.’


Thank you, I just didn't understand the response.

To be more specific, you are the pearl.  ::smile::

Offline Bitter Sweet

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Re: Can't get there from here?
« Reply #18 on: Tue Aug 30, 2011 - 18:43:31 »
It also says that He doesnt want ANYONE to be lost.


Matthew 22:14 “For many are invited, but few are chosen.

crowcamp

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Re: Can't get there from here?
« Reply #19 on: Tue Aug 30, 2011 - 18:54:08 »
So I am still left to question how anyone has anything to do with the salvation of another. God has predetermined, and only those chosen are received in Christ, and only those received in Christ have remission of sin. Logic would lead one to understand that mere mortals bring no one to salvation. Salvation comes only to those God choses- regardless of great effort or total absence of effort by mankind.

So.......................................... .................. if that is true, what's the point in....................... a whole lot of things?

Awe, look at the pearl,  ::smile::. I'm buying the field!


????????? Ya lost me there, BS.

I was just agreeing with you. You made really good point.

Isaiah 65:1  “I revealed myself to those who did not ask for me;
   I was found by those who did not seek me.
To a nation that did not call on my name,
   I said, ‘Here am I, here am I.’


Thank you, I just didn't understand the response.

To be more specific, you are the pearl.  ::smile::
No, not even close. I am just someone who becomes more confused with the passing of time and the gleaning of knowledge. Not sure it's supposed to work that way.

If those to be saved were chosen before the foundation of the earth, then there is a whole bunch of stuff going on that is completely pointless.

And I have a strong feeling I am not among the chosen.

Offline ela

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Re: Can't get there from here?
« Reply #20 on: Tue Aug 30, 2011 - 19:08:17 »
So I am still left to question how anyone has anything to do with the salvation of another. God has predetermined, and only those chosen are received in Christ, and only those received in Christ have remission of sin. Logic would lead one to understand that mere mortals bring no one to salvation. Salvation comes only to those God choses- regardless of great effort or total absence of effort by mankind.

So.......................................... .................. if that is true, what's the point in....................... a whole lot of things?

Awe, look at the pearl,  ::smile::. I'm buying the field!


????????? Ya lost me there, BS.

I was just agreeing with you. You made really good point.

Isaiah 65:1  “I revealed myself to those who did not ask for me;
   I was found by those who did not seek me.
To a nation that did not call on my name,
   I said, ‘Here am I, here am I.’


Thank you, I just didn't understand the response.

To be more specific, you are the pearl.  ::smile::
No, not even close. I am just someone who becomes more confused with the passing of time and the gleaning of knowledge. Not sure it's supposed to work that way.

If those to be saved were chosen before the foundation of the earth, then there is a whole bunch of stuff going on that is completely pointless.

And I have a strong feeling I am not among the chosen.

Why would you say you are not among the chosen???

crowcamp

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Re: Can't get there from here?
« Reply #21 on: Tue Aug 30, 2011 - 19:22:44 »
So I am still left to question how anyone has anything to do with the salvation of another. God has predetermined, and only those chosen are received in Christ, and only those received in Christ have remission of sin. Logic would lead one to understand that mere mortals bring no one to salvation. Salvation comes only to those God choses- regardless of great effort or total absence of effort by mankind.

So.......................................... .................. if that is true, what's the point in....................... a whole lot of things?

Awe, look at the pearl,  ::smile::. I'm buying the field!


????????? Ya lost me there, BS.

I was just agreeing with you. You made really good point.

Isaiah 65:1  “I revealed myself to those who did not ask for me;
   I was found by those who did not seek me.
To a nation that did not call on my name,
   I said, ‘Here am I, here am I.’


Thank you, I just didn't understand the response.

To be more specific, you are the pearl.  ::smile::
No, not even close. I am just someone who becomes more confused with the passing of time and the gleaning of knowledge. Not sure it's supposed to work that way.

If those to be saved were chosen before the foundation of the earth, then there is a whole bunch of stuff going on that is completely pointless.

And I have a strong feeling I am not among the chosen.

Why would you say you are not among the chosen???
I would think those that are chosen and have acknowledged Christ as Savior would then be certain of both. I am not.

larry2

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Re: Can't get there from here?
« Reply #22 on: Tue Aug 30, 2011 - 19:45:51 »
Evan, you have all the signs of a person looking at you through your own eyes. Romans Chapter Seven tells of the Apostle Paul observing himself and exclaiming "Oh wretched man that I am." But you see, God only sees us the new creation in Christ; to rid yourself of hopelessness you must see yourself as that pearl BetterSweet mentioned; God sold all He had to purchase you, and He isn't going to lose you.

Romans 7:15  For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
 
Romans 7:19  For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
 
Romans 7:25  I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.
 
Romans 8:1. There is therefore (Looking back at everything he just said) now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus. 

Colossians 3:3  For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.
 
Dear brother, do not allow circumstance determine your standing in Christ; Paul suffered the following as just a part of what God allow him to go through. 2 Corinthians 11:25  Thrice was I beaten with rods, once was I stoned, thrice I suffered shipwreck, a night and a day I have been in the deep;
 
Hebrews 13:5  Let your conversation (Manner of life) be without covetousness; and be content with such things as ye have: for he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee.

Your worth is far above your fondest hope; Christ died for us when we were sinners without hope; Jesus is now Christ in us, the hope of glory. An old missionary come home from overseas after his years of work in the field ended up on the West Coast broke, a small suitcase with everything he owned, and just enough to sleep in a flophouse for the night. There was no one to greet him, and as he reflected on the circumstances Teddy Roosevelt just came off a cruise to be met by a large crowd, a marching band and all kinds of hoopla. The poor old saint thought God, I've given my life for You, I'm ill, broken, and tired; how is this that the president gets all this ceremony and I end up like this? Dear son, you ain't home yet. And Even, I just made up parts of this as I don't remember the full details, but many saints suffered things that the world was not worthy of; read through Hebrews Chapter Eleven. Even Elijah felt alone as he said in 1 Kings 19:10  And he said, I have been very jealous for the LORD God of hosts. . . and I, even I only, am left; and they seek my life, to take it away.


Offline Lively Stone

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Re: Can't get there from here?
« Reply #23 on: Tue Aug 30, 2011 - 19:56:25 »
It also says that He doesnt want ANYONE to be lost.

So right, sister!

2 Peter 3:9
The Lord isn’t really being slow about his promise, as some people think. No, he is being patient for your sake. He does not want anyone to be destroyed, but wants everyone to repent.

Offline Debrah

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Re: Can't get there from here?
« Reply #24 on: Tue Aug 30, 2011 - 20:03:41 »
God does not force people to love Him, and spend eternity with Him ::pokingwithstick::...God gives us the choice, to except His grace, ::kissing:: and make Him Lord of our lives.  Predestination is messed up theology from the Calvinist doctrines of belief ::frown::...
---------
"Predestination, in Calvinistic theology, is the doctrine that all events have been willed by God. John Calvin interpreted biblical predestination to mean that God willed eternal damnation for some people and salvation for others." ::descernment::

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Predestination

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Re: Can't get there from here?
« Reply #25 on: Tue Aug 30, 2011 - 20:19:02 »
I think, 1st off, that Jesus was just stating a fact...about who He is and then, that He is the only way to the Father. Then Jesus was saying in 6:65 that salvation is a gift, and that it can not be had by working for it...it can only be "granted"...or given by the Father (because, it had already been paid for by God Himself).

 ::smile::
So the Father sends us to Christ and Christ saves us and we get to the Father...................................... .... and it is all predestined? If that be the case then what is the point of us bringing others to Christ? If it is the will of the Father, what do we have to do with it? Oh, I suppose we could rationalize He is using us to bring others to Jesus, but what if we did nothing? Wouldn't those He has chosen find Jesus, anyway?

Looking at it from the other side, on judgment day, God can show the unbelievers how believer's brought them the message of salvation and they refused, it was their choice.

God knew from the beginning who would accept/receive Him and who would refuse.  He calls those (predestined) who He already knew would receive Him.

Blessings
Does God have to "show" the unbelievers anything?

And "their choice"? Seems there is no choice- except God choosing us. Perhaps we can choose to walk away after having been chosen, but can do nothing about being chosen in the first place????

Do you think that God just made some people special, to be saved?  I don't.  He knew from the very beginning who would receive Him and who would reject Him.  For God so loved the WORLD, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believes in Him has everlasting life.   Jesus died for everyone's sins.  That means every single person.

Predestined, is predestined to be conformed to the image of Christ.   

No, He doesn't have to show unbeliever's anything. But I do think He'll run their lives or words before them.  It is each person's choice.

Blessings

It is also God's choice.  God chooses

Offline Lively Stone

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Re: Can't get there from here?
« Reply #26 on: Tue Aug 30, 2011 - 20:37:11 »
Actually, it is our choice to receive the Saviour who has offered Himself and His life's blood for us.

God doesn't do the choosing. He already did everything for us so that we could make a good choice. Easy.

Offline MrsHawk

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Re: Can't get there from here?
« Reply #27 on: Tue Aug 30, 2011 - 20:49:12 »
Hi Crowcamp......I understand how you feel....I totally know this struggle....

I figured if God knows everything, and he knows those who would turn from him....why let them be born?...Why not take them before the age of accountability so they would be with him?...
If he just wanted to sit up there and watch people struggle and and hurt in this world and know that well they arent going to make it anyways...........Well that would just be cruel.....

When I came to God it was in fear....and I wanted to save the world...out of fear that God would cast them away if they were not saved! I wanted to save people FROM God.......

Now after many years I came to find out that God is LOVE.....He really is!.....I learned that when I walk in fear I am not walking in the Spirit...because the Spirit is love...God is love...and there is no fear in love....

I realized that what I believed ...that God was some severe mean God who was just playing games with us...was really wrong....

I know God is love.....
Now as far as the predestination.....I really do not know for sure but I feel it may refer to his teachers and leaders...ones he can do mighty works through.......to show the world who he is......
I believe anyone can be saved........there is no one that God looks at as a baby and says this one will never be saved.......God is not like that.....

God is also a just God.......He is not going to take a man who has lived 60 years trying to do his best and put him in a fiery hell for trilions of years even if the man never said he believed in him........God hates unjust balances and that would be terribly unbalanced.......

It even says that as the first Adam put us all under death by his fall...the second Adam (Jesus) gave us all life...........well part of me hopes that that is saying everyone is saved but many just do not come to the knowledge of it in this life......

I dont know....I know a lot of this sounds way off....but I do know my God now....I do know He is love.....and I know he loves everyone and will not be cruel to anyone......
As far as letting people know about God....if they come to God now they can live in Him....they can live in peace and joy and love......the fruits of the Spirit......its much better than living in this world without God....

Offline P.F.

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Re: Can't get there from here?
« Reply #28 on: Tue Aug 30, 2011 - 20:49:51 »
Actually, it is our choice to receive the Saviour who has offered Himself and His life's blood for us.

God doesn't do the choosing. He already did everything for us so that we could make a good choice. Easy.

Lively says "God doesn't do the choosing. He already did everything for us so that we could make a good choice. Easy."

God's Word says in Ephesians 1:

"4According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

 5Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

 6To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved."


Lively, I will stick with the very words inspired by God.  If you want to discuss the manner of His choosing, that is another matter.

Offline Lively Stone

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Re: Can't get there from here?
« Reply #29 on: Tue Aug 30, 2011 - 20:55:10 »

God is also a just God.......He is not going to take a man who has lived 60 years trying to do his best and put him in a fiery hell for trilions of years even if the man never said he believed in him........God hates unjust balances and that would be terribly unbalanced.......

God disagrees with that! It would be unjust to allow evil to enter the Kingdom.

Quote
It even says that as the first Adam put us all under death by his fall...the second Adam (Jesus) gave us all life...........well part of me hopes that that is saying everyone is saved but many just do not come to the knowledge of it in this life.....

This is the heresy of Universal Reconciliation. Only those who put their trust in Jesus Christ have the right to be called sons of God and will receive the Kingdom.

It's one thing to have compassion for someone who is searching for truth, but feed him truth.


Offline Lively Stone

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Re: Can't get there from here?
« Reply #30 on: Tue Aug 30, 2011 - 21:03:21 »
Actually, it is our choice to receive the Saviour who has offered Himself and His life's blood for us.

God doesn't do the choosing. He already did everything for us so that we could make a good choice. Easy.

Lively says "God doesn't do the choosing. He already did everything for us so that we could make a good choice. Easy."

God's Word says in Ephesians 1:

"4According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

 5Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

 6To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved."


Lively, I will stick with the very words inspired by God.  If you want to discuss the manner of His choosing, that is another matter.


I agree with you. I am among the chosen of God---chosen to be conformed to the image of God. However, He drew me to Himself, as well as doing everything necessary for my salvation, so that all I had to do was say, "Yes, Lord!" and begin to walk in the works he has prepared fro me to do.

I could have done the hard thing and said no.

Romans 8:28-29
And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose.  For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren.

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Re: Can't get there from here?
« Reply #31 on: Tue Aug 30, 2011 - 21:15:18 »
I think you all need to go back and read the passages in the OP.

No one comes to the Son except by the Father. No one comes to the Father except by the Son. These passages are about as straightforward as the Bible gets. If the Father has not chosen us we do not go to the Son. If we don't go to the Son we do not get to the Father.

As I have said more than once, that makes much of all this posturing and parading we do to be pointless.

And Larry, yes, I understand that I am not home yet. I also understand I am quite uncertain if that home awaits me. And further I understand that getting there is all that matters. This earthly existence is pointless.

crowcamp

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Re: Can't get there from here?
« Reply #32 on: Tue Aug 30, 2011 - 21:38:14 »
Hi Crowcamp......I understand how you feel....I totally know this struggle....

I figured if God knows everything, and he knows those who would turn from him....why let them be born?...Why not take them before the age of accountability so they would be with him?...
If he just wanted to sit up there and watch people struggle and and hurt in this world and know that well they arent going to make it anyways...........Well that would just be cruel.....

When I came to God it was in fear....and I wanted to save the world...out of fear that God would cast them away if they were not saved! I wanted to save people FROM God.......

Now after many years I came to find out that God is LOVE.....He really is!.....I learned that when I walk in fear I am not walking in the Spirit...because the Spirit is love...God is love...and there is no fear in love....

I realized that what I believed ...that God was some severe mean God who was just playing games with us...was really wrong....

I know God is love.....
Now as far as the predestination.....I really do not know for sure but I feel it may refer to his teachers and leaders...ones he can do mighty works through.......to show the world who he is......
I believe anyone can be saved........there is no one that God looks at as a baby and says this one will never be saved.......God is not like that.....

God is also a just God.......He is not going to take a man who has lived 60 years trying to do his best and put him in a fiery hell for trilions of years even if the man never said he believed in him........God hates unjust balances and that would be terribly unbalanced.......

It even says that as the first Adam put us all under death by his fall...the second Adam (Jesus) gave us all life...........well part of me hopes that that is saying everyone is saved but many just do not come to the knowledge of it in this life......

I dont know....I know a lot of this sounds way off....but I do know my God now....I do know He is love.....and I know he loves everyone and will not be cruel to anyone......
As far as letting people know about God....if they come to God now they can live in Him....they can live in peace and joy and love......the fruits of the Spirit......its much better than living in this world without God....
Mrs. Hawk, I appreciate what you have to say, but do have a concern. I have that concern because I was once where you are. You are viewing God in the way you personally wish to see Him, not necessarily in the way He truly is. The passages I offered in the OP are very clear. I know of no way they could be interperted except as written.

Is God "cruel" or is He just if not all are saved? He has chosen who will come to the Son. It is not our choice- or ours to judge. It appears we have absolutelly nothing to do with it.

Offline Joyfullee

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Re: Can't get there from here?
« Reply #33 on: Tue Aug 30, 2011 - 22:02:34 »
I think you all need to go back and read the passages in the OP.

No one comes to the Son except by the Father. No one comes to the Father except by the Son. These passages are about as straightforward as the Bible gets. If the Father has not chosen us we do not go to the Son. If we don't go to the Son we do not get to the Father.

As I have said more than once, that makes much of all this posturing and parading we do to be pointless.

And Larry, yes, I understand that I am not home yet. I also understand I am quite uncertain if that home awaits me. And further I understand that getting there is all that matters. This earthly existence is pointless.

It sounds like a personal relationship with God is missing from your life, or God is trying to get you to a deeper place in Him.

What if Paul or Peter had felt like you, that their "earthly existence" was pointless?  God has work for you sir and you need to find out what it is and get about doing your Father's business.

Hopeless and defeated is not what God intends for his children.  The "joy" of the Lord is your strength!

Blessings dear one

Offline Lively Stone

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Re: Can't get there from here?
« Reply #34 on: Tue Aug 30, 2011 - 22:31:59 »
I think you all need to go back and read the passages in the OP.

No one comes to the Son except by the Father. No one comes to the Father except by the Son. These passages are about as straightforward as the Bible gets. If the Father has not chosen us we do not go to the Son. If we don't go to the Son we do not get to the Father.

As I have said more than once, that makes much of all this posturing and parading we do to be pointless.

And Larry, yes, I understand that I am not home yet. I also understand I am quite uncertain if that home awaits me. And further I understand that getting there is all that matters. This earthly existence is pointless.

God desires that everyone take advantage of the free offer of salvation, Jesus didn't suffer torment and shed His life's blood for only a few. He died for all.

If you have received His free gift of salvation by faith in Jesus Christ, then you are a new creature and a citizen of Heaven, and nothing can separate you from the love of God. He will never leave you or forsake you. You are the recipient of all His promises---you need to apprise yourself of them by getting into His word and declare the promises and stand them. God's promises are part of your new birthright as a son or daughter of God.