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Author Topic: Can't get there from here?  (Read 21311 times)

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Offline yogi bear

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Re: Can't get there from here?
« Reply #210 on: Fri Sep 02, 2011 - 09:19:38 »
Ela, I agree the spirit is working and drawing those to someone that can relay the Gospel call but still yet it is the Gospel of Christ that  grants the coming to God. It is Gods way of calling. God or Spirit may lead you to the Gospel but still it is through the Gospel of Christ that God does his calling. 

For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. 14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? 15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things! 16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report? 17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.   Romans 10:13-17 (KJV)


All are call to God by the Gospel of Christ   and the called are sent  to spread the calling. Yes the Spirit will help lead one to the Gospel call but
All are call to God by the Gospel of Christ   and the called are sent  to spread the calling.  That my friend is biblical fact.

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Re: Can't get there from here?
« Reply #210 on: Fri Sep 02, 2011 - 09:19:38 »

Offline Lively Stone

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Re: Can't get there from here?
« Reply #211 on: Fri Sep 02, 2011 - 09:29:31 »
Ela, I agree the spirit is working and drawing those to someone that can relay the Gospel call but still yet it is the Gospel of Christ that  grants the coming to God. It is Gods way of calling. God or Spirit may lead you to the Gospel but still it is through the Gospel of Christ that God does his calling. 

For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. 14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? 15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things! 16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report? 17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.   Romans 10:13-17 (KJV)


All are call to God by the Gospel of Christ   and the called are sent  to spread the calling. Yes the Spirit will help lead one to the Gospel call but
All are call to God by the Gospel of Christ   and the called are sent  to spread the calling.  That my friend is biblical fact.

That is what ela was demonstrating.

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Re: Can't get there from here?
« Reply #211 on: Fri Sep 02, 2011 - 09:29:31 »

Offline yogi bear

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Re: Can't get there from here?
« Reply #212 on: Fri Sep 02, 2011 - 09:32:50 »
Sorry my bad the start of her reply seemed to indicate that those who teach that are not correct. I must of totally
misunderstood.

Offline ela

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Re: Can't get there from here?
« Reply #213 on: Fri Sep 02, 2011 - 10:23:29 »
Ela, I agree the spirit is working and drawing those to someone that can relay the Gospel call but still yet it is the Gospel of Christ that  grants the coming to God. It is Gods way of calling. God or Spirit may lead you to the Gospel but still it is through the Gospel of Christ that God does his calling. 

For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. 14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? 15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things! 16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report? 17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.   Romans 10:13-17 (KJV)


All are call to God by the Gospel of Christ   and the called are sent  to spread the calling. Yes the Spirit will help lead one to the Gospel call but
All are call to God by the Gospel of Christ   and the called are sent  to spread the calling.  That my friend is biblical fact.

The Rom. 1 verse is also biblical fact  ::shrug::....so, I don't know what the argument is...? The verse you stated does not contradict the verse I stated....which says that because of   what God had already manifest in us AND what He has created, THESE tell each of us that God exists....therefore no one has an excuse.

This verse is just as evident as yours. In the verse you sighted, Paul was beseeching the believers in Rome to go out and share the gospel with the Jews who didn't know how to get right with God...so he told them plainly and spelled it out what they should do and say. This is a chapter that is used much in tracts, and some churches even say that people HAVE to say exactly what Paul said in order to be saved. This has to be taken in context. This does not discount that God can and does bring people to Himself where there is no one to share with them....and vice versa, those that share the gospel are not discounted by the sovereignty of God. We share in the blessings of being servants/Christ to the world around us as we partner with God. It excites and blesses and makes me feel so secure that I have a God that is sovereign.

 In my many yrs I have seen both happen a lot. Unfortunately, I don't see or hear things happen like that much anymore here in the US...like my Pastors wife, who came to Christ and was changed, before she ever heard the gospel.

Well, I think I have gotten enough off track here, as this is crows thread.....


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Re: Can't get there from here?
« Reply #213 on: Fri Sep 02, 2011 - 10:23:29 »

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Re: Can't get there from here?
« Reply #214 on: Fri Sep 02, 2011 - 10:54:20 »
Found it! This answers my questions, and I would think will be satisfactory to any and all that have thought me a fool for having questions in the first place.

I guess God directed me back to this forum knowing I wouldn't find answers, but in not finding would be encouraged to keep looking elsewhere. Actually, this discussion spurred me on, so I thank you one and all!  ::clappingoverhead::




 What does the Bible teach about election?

By John MacArthur jr.





Election is the act of God whereby in eternity past He chose those who will be saved. Election is unconditional, because it does not depend on anything outside of God, such as good works or foreseen faith (Romans 9:16). This doctrine is repeatedly taught in the Bible, and is also demanded by our knowledge of God. To begin with, let's look at the biblical evidence.
The Bible says prior to salvation, all people are dead in sin-- spiritually dead (Ephesians 2:1-3). In this state of death, the sinner is utterly unable to respond to any spiritual stimulus and therefore unable to love God, obey Him, or please Him in any way. Scripture says the mind of every unbeliever "is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so; and those who are in the flesh cannot please God" (Romans 8:7-8, emphasis added). That describes a state of total hopelessness: spiritual death.

The effect of all this is that no sinner can ever make the first move in the salvation process. This is what Jesus meant in John 6:44, when He said, "No one can come to Me, unless the Father who sent Me draws him."

This is also why the Bible repeatedly stresses that salvation is wholly God's work. In Acts 13:48 we read, "And when the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord; and as many as had been appointed to eternal life believed."

Acts 16 tells us that Lydia was saved when, " . . . the Lord opened her heart to respond to the things spoken by Paul."

Romans 8:29-30 states, "For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the first-born among many brethren; and whom He predestined, these He also called; and whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified."

Ephesians 1:4-5,11 reads, "Just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before Him. In love He predestined us to adoption as sons through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the kind intention of His will . . . also we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to His purpose who works all things after the counsel of His will."

Ephesians 2:8 suggests that even our faith is a gift from God.

In 2 Thessalonians 2:13, the apostle Paul tells his readers, "God has chosen you from the beginning for salvation."

Second Timothy 1:9 informs us that God "has saved us, and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was granted us in Christ Jesus from all eternity."

Occasionally someone will suggest that God's election is based on His foreknowledge of certain events. This argument suggests that God simply looks into the future to see who will believe, and He chooses those whom He sees choosing Him. Notice that 1 Peter 1:2 says the elect are chosen "according to the foreknowledge of God the Father," and Romans 8:29 says, "whom He foreknew, He also predestined." And if divine foreknowledge simply means God's knowledge of what will happen in advance, then these arguments may appear to have some weight behind them.

But that is not the biblical meaning of "foreknowledge." When the Bible speaks of God's foreknowledge, it refers to God's establishment of a love relationship with that person. The word "know," in both the Old and New Testament, refers to much more than mere cognitive knowledge of a person. Such passages as Hosea 13:4-5; Amos 3:2 (KJV); and Romans 11:2 clearly indicate this. For example, 1 Peter 1:20 says Christ was "foreknown before the foundation of the world." Surely this means more than that God the Father looked into the future to behold Christ! It means He had an eternal, loving relationship with Him. The same is true of the elect, whom we are told God "foreknew" (Romans 8:29). That means He knew them--he loved them--before the foundation of the world.

If God's choice of the elect is unconditional, does this rule out human responsibility? Paul asks and answers that very question in Romans 9:19-20. He says God's choice of the elect is an act of mercy. Left to themselves, even the elect would persist in sin and be lost, because they are taken from the same fallen lump of clay as the rest of humanity. God alone is responsible for their salvation, but that does not eradicate the responsibility of those who persist in sin and are lost--because they do it willfully, and not under compulsion. They are responsible for their sin, not God.

The Bible affirms human responsibility right alongside the doctrine of divine sovereignty. Moreover, the offer of mercy in the gospel is extended to all alike. Isaiah 55:1 and Revelation 22:17 call "whosoever will" to be saved. Isaiah 45:22 and Acts 17:30 command all men to turn to God, repent and be saved. First Timothy 2:4 and 2 Peter 3:9 tell us that God is not willing that any should perish, but desires that all should be saved. Finally, the Lord Jesus said that, "the one who comes to Me I will certainly not cast out" (John 6:37).

In summary, we can say that God has had a special love relationship with the elect from all eternity, and on the basis of that love relationship chosen them for salvation. The ultimate question of why God chose some for salvation and left others in their sinful state is one that we, with our finite knowledge, cannot answer. We do know that God's attributes always are in perfect harmony with each other, so that God's sovereignty will always operate in perfect harmony with His goodness, love, wisdom, and justice.

From the website, kenscustom.com


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Re: Can't get there from here?
« Reply #214 on: Fri Sep 02, 2011 - 10:54:20 »



Offline Lively Stone

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Re: Can't get there from here?
« Reply #215 on: Fri Sep 02, 2011 - 11:04:35 »
Quote
In summary, we can say that God has had a special love relationship with the elect from all eternity, and on the basis of that love relationship chosen them for salvation. The ultimate question of why God chose some for salvation and left others in their sinful state is one that we, with our finite knowledge, cannot answer. We do know that God's attributes always are in perfect harmony with each other, so that God's sovereignty will always operate in perfect harmony with His goodness, love, wisdom, and justice.


God doesn't choose to save some and not others. It is the choice of man to reject God's provision of a way back to Him. It is a narrow road---many enjoy a broad road.

crowcamp

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Re: Can't get there from here?
« Reply #216 on: Fri Sep 02, 2011 - 11:20:07 »
Quote
In summary, we can say that God has had a special love relationship with the elect from all eternity, and on the basis of that love relationship chosen them for salvation. The ultimate question of why God chose some for salvation and left others in their sinful state is one that we, with our finite knowledge, cannot answer. We do know that God's attributes always are in perfect harmony with each other, so that God's sovereignty will always operate in perfect harmony with His goodness, love, wisdom, and justice.


God doesn't choose to save some and not others. It is the choice of man to reject God's provision of a way back to Him. It is a narrow road---many enjoy a broad road.
Expected. Even that which answers all is not enough for some.

It's okay, lively. I have my answer. Some have been chosen, but all have the opportunity for salvation. And even those chosen can be lost if they turn away from our Lord. That, at least to me, makes perfect sense and the Scripture offered by MacArthur coordinates with his dissertation. This is the best I've found on the subject and puts my mind at ease.

I'll get back to witnessing, and with God's will maybe bring a few to Him. My questions are answered.

Offline Lively Stone

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Re: Can't get there from here?
« Reply #217 on: Fri Sep 02, 2011 - 11:25:39 »
Quote
In summary, we can say that God has had a special love relationship with the elect from all eternity, and on the basis of that love relationship chosen them for salvation. The ultimate question of why God chose some for salvation and left others in their sinful state is one that we, with our finite knowledge, cannot answer. We do know that God's attributes always are in perfect harmony with each other, so that God's sovereignty will always operate in perfect harmony with His goodness, love, wisdom, and justice.


God doesn't choose to save some and not others. It is the choice of man to reject God's provision of a way back to Him. It is a narrow road---many enjoy a broad road.
Expected. Even that which answers all is not enough for some.

It's okay, lively. I have my answer. Some have been chosen, but all have the opportunity for salvation. And even those chosen can be lost if they turn away from our Lord. That, at least to me, makes perfect sense and the Scripture offered by MacArthur coordinates with his dissertation. This is the best I've found on the subject and puts my mind at ease.

I'll get back to witnessing, and with God's will maybe bring a few to Him. My questions are answered.

That makes the Lord pretty pathetic if He cannot keep His word to not let His own be snatched from His hand.


BornToReign

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Re: Can't get there from here?
« Reply #218 on: Fri Sep 02, 2011 - 11:33:57 »
 ::frown::  Went from one John Soandso to another. Oh well, to each his own I guess.




Personally, I will be sticking with the Lord and His words.

And 'I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself."

Rom. 5:18; 8:32; 2 Cor. 5:15; 1 Tim. 2:6; Heb. 2:9; 1 John 2:2

Offline yogi bear

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Re: Can't get there from here?
« Reply #219 on: Fri Sep 02, 2011 - 11:41:44 »
Yes seems we fell prey to another that was not really wanting to study but building up for the big I am right you are wrong as usual

crowcamp

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Re: Can't get there from here?
« Reply #220 on: Fri Sep 02, 2011 - 11:52:14 »
Quote
In summary, we can say that God has had a special love relationship with the elect from all eternity, and on the basis of that love relationship chosen them for salvation. The ultimate question of why God chose some for salvation and left others in their sinful state is one that we, with our finite knowledge, cannot answer. We do know that God's attributes always are in perfect harmony with each other, so that God's sovereignty will always operate in perfect harmony with His goodness, love, wisdom, and justice.


God doesn't choose to save some and not others. It is the choice of man to reject God's provision of a way back to Him. It is a narrow road---many enjoy a broad road.
Expected. Even that which answers all is not enough for some.

It's okay, lively. I have my answer. Some have been chosen, but all have the opportunity for salvation. And even those chosen can be lost if they turn away from our Lord. That, at least to me, makes perfect sense and the Scripture offered by MacArthur coordinates with his dissertation. This is the best I've found on the subject and puts my mind at ease.

I'll get back to witnessing, and with God's will maybe bring a few to Him. My questions are answered.

That makes the Lord pretty pathetic if He cannot keep His word to not let His own be snatched from His hand.


Oh, but the Lord does keep His Word! That's the point! He tells us some are chosen, but all are called. He tells us even those chosen do not have a free pass. None are "snatched from His hand". He has made provision for all. He wants all to be with Him, but it is still by our choice.

This makes sense- at least to me.

crowcamp

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Re: Can't get there from here?
« Reply #221 on: Fri Sep 02, 2011 - 11:55:47 »
Yes seems we fell prey to another that was not really wanting to study but building up for the big I am right you are wrong as usual

I came to learn, and I did. Right? I don't consider right vs. wrong regarding myself and my brothers and sisters. I try to learn so I might not be quite as wrong. You see, I know we are all wrong, and only our Lord can make it right.

Offline Lively Stone

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Re: Can't get there from here?
« Reply #222 on: Fri Sep 02, 2011 - 12:13:54 »
Yes seems we fell prey to another that was not really wanting to study but building up for the big I am right you are wrong as usual

I was just thinking that...

crowcamp

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Re: Can't get there from here?
« Reply #223 on: Fri Sep 02, 2011 - 12:58:57 »
Yes seems we fell prey to another that was not really wanting to study but building up for the big I am right you are wrong as usual

I was just thinking that...
So, lively and yogi, where I did say I was right and you were wrong?

crowcamp

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Re: Can't get there from here?
« Reply #224 on: Fri Sep 02, 2011 - 13:04:54 »
::frown::  Went from one John Soandso to another. Oh well, to each his own I guess.




Personally, I will be sticking with the Lord and His words.

And 'I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself."

Rom. 5:18; 8:32; 2 Cor. 5:15; 1 Tim. 2:6; Heb. 2:9; 1 John 2:2

So, Born, you read this passage to mean all as in every single person, sinner or saved, that will ever be?

Offline yogi bear

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Re: Can't get there from here?
« Reply #225 on: Fri Sep 02, 2011 - 13:08:15 »
I guess God directed me back to this forum knowing I wouldn't find answers,

If that is not a slap in everyone face that comes to this forum except you then what is?

crowcamp

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Re: Can't get there from here?
« Reply #226 on: Fri Sep 02, 2011 - 13:22:42 »
I guess God directed me back to this forum knowing I wouldn't find answers,

If that is not a slap in everyone face that comes to this forum except you then what is?
I did not find answers in the forum, but acknowledged everyone who posted helped lead me to answers.

Would it be a "slap in the face" if someone asked you for directions and you said, "Well, I think you go down the road a couple of miles and take a right..............." but then the person asking takes that right, realizes it's not going to get them where they hope to go, so stops at a gas station for clarification? Then.............................. that person arrives at their destination and tells those they're meeting with, "I stopped and asked this guy how to get here, what he told me wasn't going to get me here, but it led me to stop at that gas station. I'd have to say that guy helped me to get here because had I not talked to him I would have never stopped at the gas station."

THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU!!!!!!!

Is that better?    ::lookaround::

Offline gospel

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Re: Can't get there from here?
« Reply #227 on: Fri Sep 02, 2011 - 13:28:15 »
God knew this day would come and what would transpire  ::smile::

crowcamp

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Re: Can't get there from here?
« Reply #228 on: Fri Sep 02, 2011 - 13:34:12 »
God knew this day would come and what would transpire  ::smile::
Gospel, you seem to have been understanding what I was searching for in this thread. Do you think I found it?

Offline Jimmy

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Re: Can't get there from here?
« Reply #229 on: Fri Sep 02, 2011 - 13:52:38 »
As I said earlier today in reply #208 it is pretty obvious that crowcamp was not looking for answers.  He was simply looking for an opportunity to preach his Calvinist doctrine.  Under the rules and guidelines of the forum that is probably acceptable even if it was a little sleazy.

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Re: Can't get there from here?
« Reply #230 on: Fri Sep 02, 2011 - 13:57:08 »
God knew this day would come and what would transpire  ::smile::
Gospel, you seem to have been understanding what I was searching for in this thread. Do you think I found it?

I don't see what the big to do is all about

I enjoyed MacArthur's article and agree with most of it though not all and I am satisfied if you are, that you have found peace in his understanding of this topic.

My view of the matter is at odds with most

So I'm stuck on the Sovereign Will of God and get accept anything that is not founded on that

I try to stick to the simplicity of the Gospel and if it does not seem to make sense, I don't believe making it more complicated makes the scripture make more sense

So I am known for making simple statements that tend to frustrate and confound the wise

for instance here's some simplicity regarding this topic

If Judas was destined for destruction I don't understand why people are having a problem accepting the fact that some people are destined for Salvation and others are not

To me it's cut and dry because I know that I know that I know

God's Will is Sovereign...and that my friend is the firm foundation of much of what I adhere to concerning salvation and especially concerning Jesus

I'll touch upon another aspect of this in a new thread as this one is quite extensive and soon may be destined for obscurity  ::smile::






 

Offline Bitter Sweet

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Re: Can't get there from here?
« Reply #231 on: Fri Sep 02, 2011 - 14:00:10 »
::frown::  Went from one John Soandso to another. Oh well, to each his own I guess.




Personally, I will be sticking with the Lord and His words.

And 'I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself."

Rom. 5:18; 8:32; 2 Cor. 5:15; 1 Tim. 2:6; Heb. 2:9; 1 John 2:2

So, Born, you read this passage to mean all as in every single person, sinner or saved, that will ever be?

If it is all people then you are still right about everything being pointless Crowcamp! Your words are righteous!

Wow, we have a winner here! "Happy happy, joy joy"! (Ren and Stimpy song!)


crowcamp

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Re: Can't get there from here?
« Reply #232 on: Fri Sep 02, 2011 - 14:03:05 »
As I said earlier today in reply #208 it is pretty obvious that crowcamp was not looking for answers.  He was simply looking for an opportunity to preach his Calvinist doctrine.  Under the rules and guidelines of the forum that is probably acceptable even if it was a little sleazy.
So do you think the article of MacArthur's is Calvinist? I thought it to be looking at issues from several different angles, not from a carved-in-stone idealogy. And................. I had no idea what a Calvinist was until I started into this thread, so it would be pretty hard for me to "preach his Calvinist doctrine." I simply came with questions, some that have been answered, and some that I will keep working on.

As with everyone else, I thank you for your input.

crowcamp

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Re: Can't get there from here?
« Reply #233 on: Fri Sep 02, 2011 - 14:05:27 »
God knew this day would come and what would transpire  ::smile::
Gospel, you seem to have been understanding what I was searching for in this thread. Do you think I found it?

I don't see what the big to do is all about

I enjoyed MacArthur's article and agree with most of it though not all and I am satisfied if you are, that you have found peace in his understanding of this topic.

My view of the matter is at odds with most

So I'm stuck on the Sovereign Will of God and get accept anything that is not founded on that

I try to stick to the simplicity of the Gospel and if it does not seem to make sense, I don't believe making it more complicated makes the scripture make more sense

So I am known for making simple statements that tend to frustrate and confound the wise

for instance here's some simplicity regarding this topic

If Judas was destined for destruction I don't understand why people are having a problem accepting the fact that some people are destined for Salvation and others are not

To me it's cut and dry because I know that I know that I know

God's Will is Sovereign...and that my friend is the firm foundation of much of what I adhere to concerning salvation and especially concerning Jesus

I'll touch upon another aspect of this in a new thread as this one is quite extensive and soon may be destined for obscurity  ::smile::






 
I won't say I'm 100% satisfied, but have found at least some answers. I appreciate the kind way you post, gospel, and look forward to that new thread.  ::smile::

Offline gospel

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Re: Can't get there from here?
« Reply #234 on: Fri Sep 02, 2011 - 14:15:48 »
As I said earlier today in reply #208 it is pretty obvious that crowcamp was not looking for answers.  He was simply looking for an opportunity to preach his Calvinist doctrine.  Under the rules and guidelines of the forum that is probably acceptable even if it was a little sleazy.

Yet it is no worse than some people taking every opportunity to preach the bad news that turning to Jesus is merely a formality and their salvation still depends on themselves

Offline Jimmy

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Re: Can't get there from here?
« Reply #235 on: Fri Sep 02, 2011 - 14:20:06 »
As I said earlier today in reply #208 it is pretty obvious that crowcamp was not looking for answers.  He was simply looking for an opportunity to preach his Calvinist doctrine.  Under the rules and guidelines of the forum that is probably acceptable even if it was a little sleazy.

Yet it is no worse than some people taking every opportunity to preach the bad news that turning to Jesus is merely a formality and their salvation still depends on themselves

I have never read of anyone here at this forum preaching the bad news that turning to Jesus is merely a formality.  That must have been those voices again.

Offline gospel

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Re: Can't get there from here?
« Reply #236 on: Fri Sep 02, 2011 - 14:32:57 »
As I said earlier today in reply #208 it is pretty obvious that crowcamp was not looking for answers.  He was simply looking for an opportunity to preach his Calvinist doctrine.  Under the rules and guidelines of the forum that is probably acceptable even if it was a little sleazy.

Yet it is no worse than some people taking every opportunity to preach the bad news that turning to Jesus is merely a formality and their salvation still depends on themselves

I have never read of anyone here at this forum preaching the bad news that turning to Jesus is merely a formality.  That must have been those voices again.

We-l-l-l they may not use those words but when you get through all the double talk that's the bottom line of what some people are really saying

Your salvation depends on you and what you do

Offline Jimmy

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Re: Can't get there from here?
« Reply #237 on: Fri Sep 02, 2011 - 14:38:10 »
As I said earlier today in reply #208 it is pretty obvious that crowcamp was not looking for answers.  He was simply looking for an opportunity to preach his Calvinist doctrine.  Under the rules and guidelines of the forum that is probably acceptable even if it was a little sleazy.

Yet it is no worse than some people taking every opportunity to preach the bad news that turning to Jesus is merely a formality and their salvation still depends on themselves

I have never read of anyone here at this forum preaching the bad news that turning to Jesus is merely a formality.  That must have been those voices again.

We-l-l-l they may not use those words but when you get through all the double talk that's the bottom line of what some people are really saying

Your salvation depends on you and what you do

I don't think I have every read of anyone here at this forum say that either, exactly.  Perhaps they are not really saying what you think they are saying or what you have decided they are saying.  Perhaps you just don't understand what they are saying.

Offline JohnDB

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Re: Can't get there from here?
« Reply #238 on: Fri Sep 02, 2011 - 14:38:37 »
& the title of the OP is correct. Most of us can't get to calvinism from where we are at in our spiritual walk.

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Re: Can't get there from here?
« Reply #239 on: Fri Sep 02, 2011 - 14:47:20 »
& the title of the OP is correct. Most of us can't get to calvinism from where we are at in our spiritual walk.

Thank you, John. Looking back, what I was seeing may have been leading me to Calvinism (although I didn't even know what that was).

I think the key is to avoid hard idealogies from any side, take the Word in it's entirety, and be open enough to learn as we go along. After all, doesn't it say the Word is for reproof and correction? 

Offline gospel

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Re: Can't get there from here?
« Reply #240 on: Fri Sep 02, 2011 - 14:55:23 »
As I said earlier today in reply #208 it is pretty obvious that crowcamp was not looking for answers.  He was simply looking for an opportunity to preach his Calvinist doctrine.  Under the rules and guidelines of the forum that is probably acceptable even if it was a little sleazy.

Yet it is no worse than some people taking every opportunity to preach the bad news that turning to Jesus is merely a formality and their salvation still depends on themselves

I have never read of anyone here at this forum preaching the bad news that turning to Jesus is merely a formality.  That must have been those voices again.

We-l-l-l they may not use those words but when you get through all the double talk that's the bottom line of what some people are really saying

Your salvation depends on you and what you do

I don't think I have every read of anyone here at this forum say that either, exactly.  Perhaps they are not really saying what you think they are saying or what you have decided they are saying.  Perhaps you just don't understand what they are saying.

Perhaps you shouldn't assume that you have read every post on every topic by every poster and having not done so don't know everything everyone has said or thinks...
.... and perhaps you should wear the shoes that fit your own feet and if they don't let others speak for themselves unless of course perhaps you feel self conscious about my statement and somehow believe it pertains to you?


Offline Lively Stone

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Re: Can't get there from here?
« Reply #241 on: Fri Sep 02, 2011 - 15:10:51 »
Quote from: crowcamp
So, Born, you read this passage to mean all as in every single person, sinner or saved, that will ever be?

When Jesus said that when He is lifted up (on the cross), He will in effect draw all men to Himself as in erasing the division between Jew and Gentile---all people will be invited to worship Him.

Offline Jimmy

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Re: Can't get there from here?
« Reply #242 on: Fri Sep 02, 2011 - 16:08:19 »
As I said earlier today in reply #208 it is pretty obvious that crowcamp was not looking for answers.  He was simply looking for an opportunity to preach his Calvinist doctrine.  Under the rules and guidelines of the forum that is probably acceptable even if it was a little sleazy.

Yet it is no worse than some people taking every opportunity to preach the bad news that turning to Jesus is merely a formality and their salvation still depends on themselves

I have never read of anyone here at this forum preaching the bad news that turning to Jesus is merely a formality.  That must have been those voices again.

We-l-l-l they may not use those words but when you get through all the double talk that's the bottom line of what some people are really saying

Your salvation depends on you and what you do

I don't think I have every read of anyone here at this forum say that either, exactly.  Perhaps they are not really saying what you think they are saying or what you have decided they are saying.  Perhaps you just don't understand what they are saying.

Perhaps you shouldn't assume that you have read every post on every topic by every poster and having not done so don't know everything everyone has said or thinks...
.... and perhaps you should wear the shoes that fit your own feet and if they don't let others speak for themselves unless of course perhaps you feel self conscious about my statement and somehow believe it pertains to you?

You could be right.  But since you said
,,,,,some people taking every opportunity to preach the bad news that turning to Jesus is merely a formality ......
I just figured it would have happened enough that I would have read it.  Perhaps not.

BTW.  I am not self conscious about much of anything and certainly not anything here at the forum.  And I know it didn't pertain to me because I have never made such a statement.  And you surely wouldn't just make up such a denigrating thing as that would you?

Offline gospel

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Re: Can't get there from here?
« Reply #243 on: Fri Sep 02, 2011 - 17:33:06 »
Quote
I am not self conscious about much of anything

'nuff said 

I concur

::noworries::

Offline Debrah

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Re: Can't get there from here?
« Reply #244 on: Fri Sep 02, 2011 - 22:30:37 »
the Calvinist theology is foolishness to the Lord...

"For God loved the WORLD so much that he gave his one and only Son, so that EVERYONE who believes in him will not perish but have eternal life".(John 3:16)