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Author Topic: Has God Pre-Destined those whom are His?  (Read 8498 times)

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Offline gospel

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Has God Pre-Destined those whom are His?
« on: September 02, 2011, 01:46:30 PM »


Genesis 15:13 Then the LORD said to him, "Know for certain that your descendants will be strangers in a country not their own, and they will be enslaved and mistreated four hundred years.[/color]


Was this not pre-destiny? People who had not yet even been born were destined for slavery

True of False?

5Joseph had a dream, and when he told it to his brothers, they hated him all the more. 6He said to them, “Listen to this dream I had: 7We were binding sheaves of grain out in the field when suddenly my sheaf rose and stood upright, while your sheaves gathered around mine and bowed down to it.

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Has God Pre-Destined those whom are His?
« on: September 02, 2011, 01:46:30 PM »

Offline Joyfullee

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Re: Has God Pre-Destined those whom are His?
« Reply #1 on: September 02, 2011, 02:10:29 PM »
What I see is that God saw the end at the beginning and He weaves His will among the choices that individuals make.

Blessings


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Re: Has God Pre-Destined those whom are His?
« Reply #1 on: September 02, 2011, 02:10:29 PM »

Offline gospel

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Re: Has God Pre-Destined those whom are His?
« Reply #2 on: September 02, 2011, 02:38:04 PM »
What I see is that God saw the end at the beginning and He weaves His will among the choices that individuals make.

Blessings



Clearly somehow, God being God He is able to state what will occur and who will do what at a given time according to His own plans

Yet somehow Calvin gets the credit for that!

Offline Joyfullee

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Re: Has God Pre-Destined those whom are His?
« Reply #3 on: September 02, 2011, 03:17:17 PM »
What I see is that God saw the end at the beginning and He weaves His will among the choices that individuals make.

Blessings



Clearly somehow, God being God He is able to state what will occur and who will do what at a given time according to His own plans

Yet somehow Calvin gets the credit for that!

....and you can go a step farther and state that since He knows everything He could tell us at any given time what anybody is going to say or even what they are thinking as well as what is in their hearts...and it doesn't have to be according to His own plans.

Don't have a clue what you mean by your second statement gospel.

Blessings


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Re: Has God Pre-Destined those whom are His?
« Reply #3 on: September 02, 2011, 03:17:17 PM »

Offline gospel

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Re: Has God Pre-Destined those whom are His?
« Reply #4 on: September 02, 2011, 04:30:34 PM »
What I see is that God saw the end at the beginning and He weaves His will among the choices that individuals make.

Blessings



Clearly somehow, God being God He is able to state what will occur and who will do what at a given time according to His own plans

Yet somehow Calvin gets the credit for that!

....and you can go a step farther and state that since He knows everything He could tell us at any given time what anybody is going to say or even what they are thinking as well as what is in their hearts...and it doesn't have to be according to His own plans.

Don't have a clue what you mean by your second statement gospel.

Blessings



My 2nd statement refers to the practice of some people defining and labeling these ways of God as Calvinism


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Re: Has God Pre-Destined those whom are His?
« Reply #4 on: September 02, 2011, 04:30:34 PM »



p.rehbein

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Re: Has God Pre-Destined those whom are His?
« Reply #5 on: September 03, 2011, 06:08:34 AM »
What I see is that God saw the end at the beginning and He weaves His will among the choices that individuals make.

Blessings



Clearly somehow, God being God He is able to state what will occur and who will do what at a given time according to His own plans

Yet somehow Calvin gets the credit for that!

I don't see that Calvin gets the credit at all.  No more than any of the Apostles got credit for their preaching/teaching of the Gospel of Jesus.  Calvin had some differences with the Catholic Church and began teaching a new theology, but if you read his writings, he surely ALWAYS credited God (the Holy Spirit) for everything.  I supose Wesley could be put in this same boat.  

Can't blame Calvin for what other people say or how they view his writings.  He has his supporters and his detractors much like any other person who preaches/teaches the Gospel of Jesus Christ as they believe they have been led to do.  I don't see any reason to even be concerned that some person would refer to his views as Calvinism.............people do that with Wesley as well.


Zane Dow

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Re: Has God Pre-Destined those whom are His?
« Reply #6 on: September 09, 2011, 01:06:25 PM »
God predestinated those that are His and those who are not.

Offline Gomer

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Re: Has God Pre-Destined those whom are His?
« Reply #7 on: September 09, 2011, 01:14:32 PM »
The Bible teaches predestination but I do not agree with the Calvinistic idea of predestination that God unconditionally chose certain individuals to salvation.  Before the world began, God foreknew and predestined a class or group (that would later be called Christians) and anyone that obeys the gospel of Christ and becomes a Christian is added to that predestined group.

Faith.Man

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Re: Has God Pre-Destined those whom are His?
« Reply #8 on: May 20, 2012, 04:58:41 PM »


Genesis 15:13 Then the LORD said to him, "Know for certain that your descendants will be strangers in a country not their own, and they will be enslaved and mistreated four hundred years.[/color]


Was this not pre-destiny? People who had not yet even been born were destined for slavery

True of False?

5Joseph had a dream, and when he told it to his brothers, they hated him all the more. 6He said to them, “Listen to this dream I had: 7We were binding sheaves of grain out in the field when suddenly my sheaf rose and stood upright, while your sheaves gathered around mine and bowed down to it.

Offline HRoberson

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Re: Has God Pre-Destined those whom are His?
« Reply #9 on: May 21, 2012, 07:54:41 PM »
God has predestined that the Gentiles will be included; he has chosen Israel.

He does not select individuals who he has already decided not to save.

Some ancient Middle Eastern text says that God wants all men to be saved. Seems kind of odd if He knows He's already condemned most of them.

Faith.Man

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Re: Has God Pre-Destined those whom are His?
« Reply #10 on: May 22, 2012, 05:47:19 PM »
Romans 8:29 - For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the likeness of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers.
 
Romans 8:30 - And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified.

Ephesians 1:5 - he predestined us to be adopted as his sons through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will—

Ephesians 1:11 - In him we were also chosen, having been predestined according to the plan of him who works out everything in conformity with the purpose of his will,  [NIV]


It is clear from Holy Scripture that election is on an individual basis, not corporately applied.

Offline HRoberson

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Re: Has God Pre-Destined those whom are His?
« Reply #11 on: May 30, 2012, 08:00:54 PM »
Actually, no.

The point of both Romans and Ephesians is that the people of God are composed of every nation. It is not that God has picked Paul but prevented someone else from being saved.

Because the offer of salvation is universal, we can speak of it as personal to some degree. Because we are either Jews or Gentiles, we have been predestined to enter the kingdom as member of those peoples who set our minds on things of God.

Paul's point in Romans is that it has always been the plan of God to recreate His people from all the peoples of the world - all are welcome.

It is not Paul's intent to suggest that God has individually prevented specific individuals from being saved. To make that his point is to wrench his letters from their context.

Faith.Man

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Re: Has God Pre-Destined those whom are His?
« Reply #12 on: May 30, 2012, 08:32:57 PM »
Actually, no.

The point of both Romans and Ephesians is that the people of God are composed of every nation. It is not that God has picked Paul but prevented someone else from being saved.

Because the offer of salvation is universal, we can speak of it as personal to some degree. Because we are either Jews or Gentiles, we have been predestined to enter the kingdom as member of those peoples who set our minds on things of God.

Paul's point in Romans is that it has always been the plan of God to recreate His people from all the peoples of the world - all are welcome.

It is not Paul's intent to suggest that God has individually prevented specific individuals from being saved. To make that his point is to wrench his letters from their context.
So you do not believe God is sovereign.  Romans and Ephesians are written for individuals, not corporate bodies.  Read the scriptures I quoted again.

Offline Bitter Sweet

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Re: Has God Pre-Destined those whom are His?
« Reply #13 on: May 31, 2012, 06:51:53 AM »


Genesis 15:13 Then the LORD said to him, "Know for certain that your descendants will be strangers in a country not their own, and they will be enslaved and mistreated four hundred years.[/color]


Was this not pre-destiny? People who had not yet even been born were destined for slavery

True of False?
Your thoughts?  ::shrug::


It's true. When my ancestors moved into a new country in the early 1300's, the Ottoman Empire took over and they were slaves and mistreated for hundreds of years.

Thank God I was born into the new world.

Offline gbzone

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Re: Has God Pre-Destined those whom are His?
« Reply #14 on: June 06, 2012, 02:29:51 AM »
"Every seed will bring forth fruit after its own kind"

What then shall I liken  the kingdom of God?

Its is like a sower who went to sow.

It is like a good amn who sowed good sed in his feild but while men slept his enmey came and sowed tares.

"I will put emnity between thy  seed(the serpent) and the seed of the woman"

It is not so much our successes  but of what SORT are we?

Even the weeds rejoice over the sun and the rain.

I will pour out my spirit upon ALL flesh.

I dont think we / the church  know Him who "is from the begining" We have but just" heard of him"

in Christ

gerald