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Author Topic: Why Charismatic Calvanists Don't Exist  (Read 4573 times)
DCR
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« Reply #15 on: October 05, 2008, 03:42:44 PM »
Quote from: GTM on October 05, 2008, 03:39:59 PM
Wycliffes-Schilagh

Years ago I went to a Baptist Church with a friend  in Pennsylvania. Mid way through the service people began speaking in tongues. Hence there is at least one Calvinistic Charismatic Church out there.

GTM

That may be what some refer to as "Bapticostals."
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« Reply #16 on: October 05, 2008, 04:18:29 PM »
DCR

You said: That may be what some refer to as "Bapticostals."



 I agree

GTM
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« Reply #16 on: October 05, 2008, 04:18:29 PM »
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MarcStinebaugh
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« Reply #17 on: October 05, 2008, 11:21:24 PM »
I know plenty of people that believe in sovereign elective grace that speak in tongues.
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da525382
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« Reply #18 on: October 07, 2008, 09:30:33 AM »
This might be of interest:

                                   http://charismaticreformed.org/
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« Reply #19 on: October 07, 2008, 09:43:50 AM »
Quote from: DCR on October 05, 2008, 03:42:44 PM
Quote from: GTM on October 05, 2008, 03:39:59 PM
Wycliffes-Schilagh

Years ago I went to a Baptist Church with a friend  in Pennsylvania. Mid way through the service people began speaking in tongues. Hence there is at least one Calvinistic Charismatic Church out there.

GTM

That may be what some refer to as "Bapticostals."

Just a wee bit of a note though.  Baptist does not equal Calvinist.
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« Reply #20 on: October 07, 2008, 09:49:57 AM »
Quote from: Gary on October 07, 2008, 09:43:50 AM
Just a wee bit of a note though.  Baptist does not equal Calvinist.

True dat.  Most Baptists are Calvarminian - though there seems to be an uptick in Reformation theology among Baptists.
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« Reply #20 on: October 07, 2008, 09:49:57 AM »
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DCR
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« Reply #21 on: October 07, 2008, 10:27:07 AM »
Quote from: Gary on October 07, 2008, 09:43:50 AM
Quote from: DCR on October 05, 2008, 03:42:44 PM
Quote from: GTM on October 05, 2008, 03:39:59 PM
Wycliffes-Schilagh

Years ago I went to a Baptist Church with a friend  in Pennsylvania. Mid way through the service people began speaking in tongues. Hence there is at least one Calvinistic Charismatic Church out there.

GTM

That may be what some refer to as "Bapticostals."

Just a wee bit of a note though.  Baptist does not equal Calvinist.

True.  Some "Baptist" churches are through and through five-point Calvinists though.  But, probably most of the bigger mainline Baptist churches (Southern Baptist, etc.) are hybrid at best.
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« Reply #22 on: October 07, 2008, 10:41:10 AM »
Quote from: DCR on October 07, 2008, 10:27:07 AM
Quote from: Gary on October 07, 2008, 09:43:50 AM
Quote from: DCR on October 05, 2008, 03:42:44 PM
Quote from: GTM on October 05, 2008, 03:39:59 PM
Wycliffes-Schilagh

Years ago I went to a Baptist Church with a friend  in Pennsylvania. Mid way through the service people began speaking in tongues. Hence there is at least one Calvinistic Charismatic Church out there.

GTM

That may be what some refer to as "Bapticostals."

Just a wee bit of a note though.  Baptist does not equal Calvinist.

True.  Some "Baptist" churches are through and through five-point Calvinists though.  But, probably most of the bigger mainline Baptist churches (Southern Baptist, etc.) are hybrid at best.

And some generic Baptists are more Arminian and use the "Church of Christ" moniker.
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« Reply #23 on: October 07, 2008, 09:50:55 PM »
Quote from: Gary on October 07, 2008, 10:41:10 AM
And some generic Baptists are more Arminian and use the "Church of Christ" moniker.

I've read some old articles in 19th Century publications before that referred to the movement of "Campbellite Baptists."
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« Reply #24 on: October 09, 2008, 03:18:52 AM »
I find this whole thread to be very interesting, yet confusing.

Is there anything in pure Reformed doctrine (that is, from Calvin himself) that supports the Charismatic practice?  I've looked for years, and I can't seem to find it.

In a similar way, the Holiness movement (at least, on one front) grew out of Methodism, and yet I search in vain for anything in Wesley's writings to support it.

Likewise, I have a cousin who is a Charismatic Catholic priest in Los Angeles.  This is a rapidly growing segment of the church, at least in Southern California.  Yet, the matter of tongues-speaking goes against centuries of Catholic teaching.

Do you see where I'm going with this?  I'm confoozed.   eek!
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« Reply #24 on: October 09, 2008, 03:18:52 AM »
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« Reply #25 on: October 14, 2008, 11:46:09 PM »
Quote from: Wycliffes_Shillelagh on August 09, 2008, 08:44:15 PM
I was musing the other day about why there aren't any Calvanists who are Charismatics.

I think that the perhaps the answer is that the manifestation of the Spirit in signs and wonders conflicts with the doctrine of persevearance of the saints.

But what do you who are Calvanists think?


Hey Bro,

I have experienced a congregation that had leaders and members who are 5-pt. Calvinist and are also Charismatic.  Wouldn't have thunk it till I tripped into it, though. ;o)

I'm not sure I'd understand "charismatic" and "pentecostal" as equivilents, though there is certainly a large area of overlap.

I see no conflict with the manifestation of the Spirit in signs and wonders with the doctrine of persevearance of the saints.  The doctrine of The Perseverance of the Saints is really more about the Perseverance of God with and despite the failures and sinfulness of the saints.  Signs and wonders are not the exclusive domain of the saved; The sons of Sceva (Acts 19) may be an illustration of this non-exclusiveness.


V
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"There can be only two basic loves; the love of God unto the forgetfulness of self, or, the love of self unto the forgetfulness and denial of God." ---Augustine

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« Reply #26 on: October 15, 2008, 07:42:44 AM »
Just thought of someting...

Skepticism and criticisms against contemporary manifestations of the Spirit in signs and wonders and giftings is not limited to any one systematic soteriology.  There's plenty of Arminians who would say that speaking in tongues is a work of Satan.  The same holds true for many Calvinist.

BTW, a "Calvaminian" is still an Arminian...and that in no way puts them outside the love of Christ or the love of the brethern ;o)


V
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"There can be only two basic loves; the love of God unto the forgetfulness of self, or, the love of self unto the forgetfulness and denial of God." ---Augustine

"If God was interested in special buildings and professional mediators then the sacrifice of Christ and the destruction of the Temple in Jerusalem seems oddly unwarranted."
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« Reply #27 on: October 15, 2008, 03:35:51 PM »
Quote from: Volkmar on October 14, 2008, 11:46:09 PM
Quote from: Wycliffes_Shillelagh on August 09, 2008, 08:44:15 PM
I was musing the other day about why there aren't any Calvanists who are Charismatics.

I think that the perhaps the answer is that the manifestation of the Spirit in signs and wonders conflicts with the doctrine of persevearance of the saints.

But what do you who are Calvanists think?


Hey Bro,

I have experienced a congregation that had leaders and members who are 5-pt. Calvinist and are also Charismatic.  Wouldn't have thunk it till I tripped into it, though. ;o)

I'm not sure I'd understand "charismatic" and "pentecostal" as equivilents, though there is certainly a large area of overlap.

I see no conflict with the manifestation of the Spirit in signs and wonders with the doctrine of persevearance of the saints.  The doctrine of The Perseverance of the Saints is really more about the Perseverance of God with and despite the failures and sinfulness of the saints.  Signs and wonders are not the exclusive domain of the saved; The sons of Sceva (Acts 19) may be an illustration of this non-exclusiveness.


V


They didn't switch to real communion wine from grape juice did they?
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"Are you one of those Christians that you don't land in any church because none of them is right for you, none of them is biblical, none of them is good enough?  If you've been to 27 churches, and not one of them is right, just remember this you're the only constant variable.  It's probably you." - Mark Driscoll, from message "God Sends."
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« Reply #27 on: October 15, 2008, 03:35:51 PM »
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Wycliffes_Shillelagh
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« Reply #28 on: October 15, 2008, 03:36:46 PM »
Quote from: stevehut on October 09, 2008, 03:18:52 AM
Likewise, I have a cousin who is a Charismatic Catholic priest in Los Angeles.  This is a rapidly growing segment of the church, at least in Southern California.  Yet, the matter of tongues-speaking goes against centuries of Catholic teaching.
Just a note to you, steve.  Tongues-speaking does not equal Charismatic.

Generally, charismatics, since they believe in a continuance of all gifts, do believe that there is a gift of speaking other languages, but that isn't the same thing as the blabber-speak that goes on many places.
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« Reply #29 on: October 15, 2008, 07:54:12 PM »
Quote from: Gary on October 15, 2008, 03:35:51 PM
Quote from: Volkmar on October 14, 2008, 11:46:09 PM
Quote from: Wycliffes_Shillelagh on August 09, 2008, 08:44:15 PM
I was musing the other day about why there aren't any Calvanists who are Charismatics.

I think that the perhaps the answer is that the manifestation of the Spirit in signs and wonders conflicts with the doctrine of persevearance of the saints.

But what do you who are Calvanists think?


Hey Bro,

I have experienced a congregation that had leaders and members who are 5-pt. Calvinist and are also Charismatic.  Wouldn't have thunk it till I tripped into it, though. ;o)

I'm not sure I'd understand "charismatic" and "pentecostal" as equivilents, though there is certainly a large area of overlap.

I see no conflict with the manifestation of the Spirit in signs and wonders with the doctrine of persevearance of the saints.  The doctrine of The Perseverance of the Saints is really more about the Perseverance of God with and despite the failures and sinfulness of the saints.  Signs and wonders are not the exclusive domain of the saved; The sons of Sceva (Acts 19) may be an illustration of this non-exclusiveness.


V


They didn't switch to real communion wine from grape juice did they?


LOL!

Actually, no.  However, the congregation that often meets in my house uses wine in the Supper. ;o)
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"Nothing is more repugnant to reasonable people than Grace." ---Charles Wesley

"There can be only two basic loves; the love of God unto the forgetfulness of self, or, the love of self unto the forgetfulness and denial of God." ---Augustine

"If God was interested in special buildings and professional mediators then the sacrifice of Christ and the destruction of the Temple in Jerusalem seems oddly unwarranted."
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