2 Thessalonians 2:3,4 apostasy

[kingdom-heir]

Let no man deceive you by any means, for that Day shall not come, unless there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition, who opposeth God and exalteth himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sitteth as God in the temple of God, showing himself to be God.

I am very curious what you all think about this falling away (apostasy). It seems to me that when paganism was mixed into Catholicism, that was and is that "falling away" and the pope claims to be the Vicar of Christ. What mockery!

[Bonnie]

Let no man deceive you by any means, for that Day shall not come, unless there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition, who opposeth God and exalteth himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sitteth as God in the temple of God, showing himself to be God.

I am very curious what you all think about this falling away (apostasy). It seems to me that when paganism was mixed into Catholicism, that was and is that "falling away" and the pope claims to be the Vicar of Christ. What mockery!

I believe the great falling away is here and will get worse as many more buy into false religions like the New Age.

[kingdom-heir]

Bonnie,

Have you ever read the Oath that the Jesuits take? If not, please do. Then you will know why Protestant churches are so unbiblical. RC, which is Judaism and Paganism in disguise, is the root. Here's the oath; http://www.ianpaisley.org/article.asp?ArtKey=jesuit
and here is the evidence for the rest of my statement above; http://www.watch.pair.com/mystery-babylon.html

[s1n4m1n]

I think you are wrong. I think the "falling away" or apostasy here is the same thing as written in the Hebrews of the Jewish Christians who rejected the blood of Christ and returned to the temple worship.

[broach972]

Let no man deceive you by any means, for that Day shall not come, unless there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition, who opposeth God and exalteth himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sitteth as God in the temple of God, showing himself to be God.

I am very curious what you all think about this falling away (apostasy). It seems to me that when paganism was mixed into Catholicism, that was and is that "falling away" and the pope claims to be the Vicar of Christ. What mockery!

More anti-Catholic rubbish...it just keeps getting better and better.

[Bigdog]

Let no man deceive you by any means, for that Day shall not come, unless there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition, who opposeth God and exalteth himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sitteth as God in the temple of God, showing himself to be God.

I am very curious what you all think about this falling away (apostasy). It seems to me that when paganism was mixed into Catholicism, that was and is that "falling away" and the pope claims to be the Vicar of Christ. What mockery!

I believe that the great falling away is part of all religions not specific denomanation, where ever people gather in the Name of Jesus, The enemy or his workers are right there with them. To me we are all wrong when we say one church or Religion is better.

[Bonnie]

Bonnie,

Have you ever read the Oath that the Jesuits take? If not, please do. Then you will know why Protestant churches are so unbiblical. RC, which is Judaism and Paganism in disguise, is the root. Here's the oath; http://www.ianpaisley.org/article.asp?ArtKey=jesuit
and here is the evidence for the rest of my statement above; http://www.watch.pair.com/mystery-babylon.html

I read both sites and some of that is really wild.

[Lee Freeman]

Let no man deceive you by any means, for that Day shall not come, unless there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition, who opposeth God and exalteth himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sitteth as God in the temple of God, showing himself to be God.

I am very curious what you all think about this falling away (apostasy). It seems to me that when paganism was mixed into Catholicism, that was and is that "falling away" and the pope claims to be the Vicar of Christ. What mockery!

I think trying to link the Catholic Church with the falling away in II Thessalonians is a stretch at best.  Personally, I think the heresy Paul and other NT authors were most often referring to was a religious movement much closer to their own time-one he himself and other NT authors (John and Jude) actually wrote against. Namely, Gnosticism.

Gnosticism, from a Greek word for knowledge, gnosis, first infiltrated the church in the mid-first century but really exploded in the mid-2nd century, but has roots in the first century.

Gnosticism was a radical version of Greek Platonism mixed with Christianity and a little bit of Judaism. Basically, Gnostics believed the material universe was created by a false impostor god, known as the Demiurge and often associated with the Jewish God YHWH. The Demiurge was created when Sophia, an aspect of the divine Pleroma, or "fullness," emanated without her male counterpart. The divine souls of men got trapped in physical bodies, hence the goal of Gnostics was to use special wisdom imparted by Christ to a select few to spiritually evelove out one's physical body.

In Gnostic theology, Jesus wasn't God incarnate, he was a lesser divine being, an emanation from the divine Pleroma. He came to give secret teaching to certain of his disciples, who in turn would pass it on to certain select people, and so on. Because Jesus was divine, he couldn't contaminate himself by coming into contact with matter, hence his incarnation was only an illusion. In other words, Jesus didn't have a real, flesh-and-blood body. At his crucifixion, it wasn't really Jesus physically suffering-it was an illusion, or according to some Gnostics, a stand-in.

John in I and II John says that anyone who denies that Jesus had a physical, fleshly body was/is an antichrist. And in I and II Corinthians, Paul rebukes certain people in this church for arrogantly claiming to have a special knowledge that not everyone possessed. In I Timothy he tells Timothy to upbraid certain people in the Ephesian church for causing discord by discussing silly mythologies which were probably Gnostic.

Jude may also condemn Gnostic heresies. According to scholar and pastor Bobby Valentine, "Now if it is gnosticism that is the ultimate root of the problem in Jude then v.9 makes some sense. It was the "body" that Michael disputed with Satan about. This is important. Gnostics believed the body (human flesh) was worthless and redemption for them was the ultimate shedding of flesh/body. But Jude shows it was not the SPIRIT of Moses that was in dispute but the BODY of Moses. God cared about the body of Moses."

So I think Gnosticism was the heresy Jesus, Paul and the other NT authors most often had in mind. A kind of proto-gnosticism infiltrated the church in the mid-first century and emerged full-blown by the mid-second century. But they also warned about be the Judaizing heresy of Acts 15, Galatians, etc. in which certain Jewish converts to Christianity were trying to make Greek converts become Jews before they became Christians, particularly through circumcision.

Regardless, I don't think Roman Catholicism was what the NT writers had in mind.

Pax.

[It-Is-Written]

Let no man deceive you by any means, for that Day shall not come, unless there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition, who opposeth God and exalteth himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sitteth as God in the temple of God, showing himself to be God.

I am very curious what you all think about this falling away (apostasy). It seems to me that when paganism was mixed into Catholicism, that was and is that "falling away" and the pope claims to be the Vicar of Christ. What mockery!

Hi Kingdom-heir,

My late Pastor were a whole book on just that subject:
The Great Falling Away Today
http://home1.gte.net/web23vhn/milton_green-no-frames.htm
If any wish a free copy E-mail we, we love giving to God's Body. 

Be blessed all how are of the Obedient being in Christ Jesus! 

[It-Is-Written]

Let no man deceive you by any means, for that Day shall not come, unless there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition, who opposeth God and exalteth himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sitteth as God in the temple of God, showing himself to be God.

I am very curious what you all think about this falling away (apostasy). It seems to me that when paganism was mixed into Catholicism, that was and is that "falling away" and the pope claims to be the Vicar of Christ. What mockery!

I believe the great falling away is here and will get worse as many more buy into false religions like the New Age.

The New Age (false brethren) have crept into the (so called) churches which are of the purpose driven and the emergent, there's nothing more we can do but watch and pray. They have put away from themselves the Commandments of The Heavenly Father to make a name for themselves and they shall perish in their filthiness. But they can still repent while it is still called ~today~.

Even My Father couldn't speak into the Tower of Babel (words, words words) so He confounded their language -  that IS EXACTLY what we're seeing today in all this One-Language-Globalism-Socialism Society. 

My Heavenly Father hath said:

Gen 11:1-9
11:1 And the whole earth was of one language, and of one speech.

2 And it came to pass, as they journeyed from the east, that they found a plain in the land of Shinar; and they dwelt there.

3 And they said one to another, Go to, let us make brick, and burn them throughly. And they had brick for stone, and slime had they for morter.

4 And they said, Go to, let us build us a city and a tower, whose top may reach unto heaven; and let us make us a name, lest we be scattered abroad upon the face of the whole earth.

5 And the LORD came down to see the city and the tower, which the children of men builded.

6 And the LORD said, Behold, the people is one, and they have all one language; and this they begin to do: and now nothing will be restrained from them, which they have imagined to do.

7 Go to, let us go down, and there confound their language, that they may not understand one another's speech.

8 So the LORD scattered them abroad from thence upon the face of all the earth: and they left off to build the city.

9 Therefore is the name of it called Babel; because the LORD did there confound the language of all the earth: and from thence did the LORD scatter them abroad upon the face of all the earth.
KJV


Jude 3-8
3 Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.

4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.

5 I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not.

6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

8 Likewise also these filthy dreamers defile the flesh, despise dominion, and speak evil of dignities.
KJV

[James.]

If you're interested in both sides of an argument...

http://www.victorclaveau.com/htm_html/Anti-Catholicism/jesuit_oath_debunked.htm

[kingdom-heir]

It is only to be expected that the authors of such an evil scheme as that oath would deny it and throw up a gauntlet. I have been studying world conquest for 16 years. I know that there are several versions of the oath, for the different divisions of the fourth beast of Daniel. You will very probably mislead many of the unlearned people who read your writings.
You shall not utter a false report. Exodus 23:1 [RSV]

[James.]

It's not my site there.  I'm just showing that there are two sides to the story.  Instead of just defensively lobbing Ex. 23:1 back over the fence, why not deal with his debunking of the info at your link?  You do realize that the ol' "of course they deny it" argument really is no argument whatsoever, don't you?

[It-Is-Written]

It is only to be expected that the authors of such an evil scheme as that oath would deny it and throw up a gauntlet. I have been studying world conquest for 16 years. I know that there are several versions of the oath, for the different divisions of the fourth beast of Daniel. You will very probably mislead many of the unlearned people who read your writings.
You shall not utter a false report. Exodus 23:1 [RSV]

You mentioned a very powerful word when you said "mislead".  God bless you richly! 

The great falling away has already taken place, you would shiver and quake if you knew where we are right now.

[James.]

Of course, the problem is that duration of study ≠ truth, so who is being "mislead" and who is doing the "misleading" is not as settled a matter as you would have people here believe. 

Mein Kampf, The Communist Manifesto, The DaVinci Code and the books of Christopher Hitchens are in the Library of Congress, too, but it doesn't mean that their contents = truth.  Same goes for the contents of your supposed "oath of the Jesuits."  It's salacious, yes, but true? Not just because someone paid $30 to file a piece of paper in the Library of Congress, it's not. You'll need to present real evidence.  As it is, you're just feeding people's suspicions rather than presenting a sound case.