GCM Home | Your Posts | Rules | DONATE | Bookstore | RSS | Facebook | Twitter | FAQs


Author Topic: A picture is worth how many words?  (Read 25455 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Ladonia

  • Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 2483
  • Manna: 119
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: A picture is worth how many words?
« Reply #105 on: Sat Jan 21, 2012 - 13:23:30 »
Nice......I can hear the words of Jesus Jesus, "the foxes have holes, and the birds of the air have nests;
but the Son of man has no where to lay his head" ( Ma. 8:20 ).

All this pomp and splendor reminds me of the TV evangelists living off of the poor.
"Send me your pention check and I will send you a picture of me getting into my
Lear Jet."
By the way, when was the last time you heard today's Pope utter Peter's words in Acts 2:38?
Since Catholicism has turned Salvation into a ritual of God providing the channel or vehicle of Grace
through the sacraments you will not!

During his 1982 visit to the UK Pope John Paul II celebrated the Eucharist at Pontcanna Fields , near Cardiff in Wales . During it he adminstered first Holy Communion to a group of children .

In his homily he said : " And now I want to speak to these little ones who are about to receive Holy Communion for the first time . Dear children , Jesus is coming to you in a new way today , in a special way . He wants to live in you . He wants to speak to you in your heart . He wants to be with you all through your day . "


"Jesus comes to you in the Eucharist so that you will live forever . Holy Communion is not ordinary food . It is the bread of eternal life . It is something more precious than gold or silver . It is worth more than anything you can imagine . For this sacred bread is the body and blood of Jesus . And Jesus promises that if you eat his flesh and drink his blood , you will have life in you and you will live for ever . "

" You come to the altar today with faith and prayer . Promise me that you will try to stay close to Jesus always , and never turn your back on him . As you grow older , go on learning about Jesus by listening to his word and by talking to him in prayer . If you stay close to him , you will always be happy . "


The Catholic doctrine of "Accepting Christ" is to come clothed in Catholic doctrine as we see in the above pictures.
To understand the value of the Sacraments is to believe that the Channels by which Divine Grace is infused.
Which covers the points: Election, Irresistible grace, ( Augustine ).
Peganism? Augustine left Manichaeism and eventually became the RCC's most distinguished son.
He is the father of Roman Catholic Church. The Western Church became his bequest.

Fact: The "first pope" was inspired, the following, retired on the backs of the working peasants.
Lest we forget pope Leo's henchman, Tetzel. Need salvation? Pony up for a dose of indulgence.


And other doctrines of "Accepting Christ" are to run around like a chicken with it's head cut off yelling "I'm saved,  I'm saved"! and when the newness of that wears off, you are right back where you started, befuddled, bewildered, and listening to a stale preacher in a storefront somewhere week after week. My, what a wonderful way to worship.

Christian Forums and Message Board

Re: A picture is worth how many words?
« Reply #105 on: Sat Jan 21, 2012 - 13:23:30 »

Offline highrigger

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1112
  • Manna: 26
    • View Profile
Re: A picture is worth how many words?
« Reply #106 on: Sat Jan 21, 2012 - 19:22:48 »
Quote
And other doctrines of "Accepting Christ" are to run around like a chicken with it's head cut off yelling "I'm saved,  I'm saved"! and when the newness of that wears off, you are right back where you started, befuddled, bewildered, and listening to a stale preacher in a storefront somewhere week after week. My, what a wonderful way to worship.

Ladonia,

Better than having ot believe a lot of dogma made up hundreds of years after the apostles.

The NT and the ECFs mention none of these things:
No Pope, No Magesterium, No priests, No seven sacraments, no sacrifice of Christ in the eucharist, no need to go to a priest for forgiveness, etc etc,

The purpose of the Reformation was to return the church to the NT and the ECFs.

The storefront preacher has as much authority as your Pope.  Peter was never a bishop of Rome anyway.
You fabricate those myths and legends and think you have something better than others. NOT. Peace, JohnR

Christian Forums and Message Board

Re: A picture is worth how many words?
« Reply #106 on: Sat Jan 21, 2012 - 19:22:48 »

Offline Ladonia

  • Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 2483
  • Manna: 119
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: A picture is worth how many words?
« Reply #107 on: Sat Jan 21, 2012 - 22:50:14 »
Quote
And other doctrines of "Accepting Christ" are to run around like a chicken with it's head cut off yelling "I'm saved,  I'm saved"! and when the newness of that wears off, you are right back where you started, befuddled, bewildered, and listening to a stale preacher in a storefront somewhere week after week. My, what a wonderful way to worship.

Ladonia,

Better than having ot believe a lot of dogma made up hundreds of years after the apostles.

The NT and the ECFs mention none of these things:
No Pope, No Magesterium, No priests, No seven sacraments, no sacrifice of Christ in the eucharist, no need to go to a priest for forgiveness, etc etc,

The purpose of the Reformation was to return the church to the NT and the ECFs.

The storefront preacher has as much authority as your Pope.  Peter was never a bishop of Rome anyway.
You fabricate those myths and legends and think you have something better than others. NOT. Peace, JohnR

Such negativity and blindness my brother! The storefront preacher has removed himself from the real truth of how we should worship. I've been to those places and there were no actions done there that Christ told us to do, with the main thing  missing being a little thing called The Lord's Supper. Why, even the Lutherens do it "in remembrance" of Him.  Nothing has been fabricated, it was all figured out to it's logical conclusion.

Offline Paulus

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1302
  • Manna: 138
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: A picture is worth how many words?
« Reply #108 on: Sun Jan 22, 2012 - 13:24:49 »



      MY PRAYER RISES LIKE INCENSE ( Ps 141:2 )      



www.youtube.com/watch?v=CLAg2NDcOt4 Small | Large


I CALL YOU FRIENDS .
                            


                              

Christian Forums and Message Board

Re: A picture is worth how many words?
« Reply #108 on: Sun Jan 22, 2012 - 13:24:49 »

Offline Paulus

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1302
  • Manna: 138
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: A picture is worth how many words?
« Reply #109 on: Sun Jan 22, 2012 - 14:46:57 »



      MY PRAYER RISES LIKE INCENSE ( Ps 141:2 )      


BBC TV Songs of Praise for today , 22nd Jan 2012 .

www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b01bb76c/Songs-of-Praise-Colchester/



                            


                              


Christian Forums and Message Board

Re: A picture is worth how many words?
« Reply #109 on: Sun Jan 22, 2012 - 14:46:57 »



Offline FireSword

  • Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 2738
  • Manna: 41
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: A picture is worth how many words?
« Reply #110 on: Sun Jan 22, 2012 - 16:00:48 »
Quote
And other doctrines of "Accepting Christ" are to run around like a chicken with it's head cut off yelling "I'm saved,  I'm saved"! and when the newness of that wears off, you are right back where you started, befuddled, bewildered, and listening to a stale preacher in a storefront somewhere week after week. My, what a wonderful way to worship.

Ladonia,

Better than having ot believe a lot of dogma made up hundreds of years after the apostles.

The NT and the ECFs mention none of these things:
No Pope, No Magesterium, No priests, No seven sacraments, no sacrifice of Christ in the eucharist, no need to go to a priest for forgiveness, etc etc,

The purpose of the Reformation was to return the church to the NT and the ECFs.

The storefront preacher has as much authority as your Pope.  Peter was never a bishop of Rome anyway.
You fabricate those myths and legends and think you have something better than others. NOT. Peace, JohnR

Such negativity and blindness my brother! The storefront preacher has removed himself from the real truth of how we should worship. I've been to those places and there were no actions done there that Christ told us to do, with the main thing  missing being a little thing called The Lord's Supper. Why, even the Lutherens do it "in remembrance" of Him.  Nothing has been fabricated, it was all figured out to it's logical conclusion.

Catholics can't really compete in terms of worship, their strengths lie elsewhere.


Offline Paulus

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1302
  • Manna: 138
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: A picture is worth how many words?
« Reply #111 on: Mon Jan 23, 2012 - 05:06:32 »



A link to the vigil of prayer presided over by Pope Benedict in Hyde Park , London , on the eve of the beatification of Blessed John Henry Newman :-

www.youtube.com/watch?v=hZg-nH4pU5k Small | Large



Offline mclees8

  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5179
  • Manna: 135
    • View Profile
Re: A picture is worth how many words?
« Reply #112 on: Mon Jan 23, 2012 - 08:13:08 »
Quote
And other doctrines of "Accepting Christ" are to run around like a chicken with it's head cut off yelling "I'm saved,  I'm saved"! and when the newness of that wears off, you are right back where you started, befuddled, bewildered, and listening to a stale preacher in a storefront somewhere week after week. My, what a wonderful way to worship.

Ladonia,

Better than having ot believe a lot of dogma made up hundreds of years after the apostles.

The NT and the ECFs mention none of these things:
No Pope, No Magesterium, No priests, No seven sacraments, no sacrifice of Christ in the eucharist, no need to go to a priest for forgiveness, etc etc,

The purpose of the Reformation was to return the church to the NT and the ECFs.

The storefront preacher has as much authority as your Pope.  Peter was never a bishop of Rome anyway.
You fabricate those myths and legends and think you have something better than others. NOT. Peace, JohnR

Such negativity and blindness my brother! The storefront preacher has removed himself from the real truth of how we should worship. I've been to those places and there were no actions done there that Christ told us to do, with the main thing  missing being a little thing called The Lord's Supper. Why, even the Lutherens do it "in remembrance" of Him.  Nothing has been fabricated, it was all figured out to it's logical conclusion.

So you don't think a store front preacher can be true.  I know a preacher who preaches under a tree in a park every Sunday for several years now. He takes food for the poor who go to the soup kitchen everyday because there is no work, but hey don't serve on Sunday and no one  tells them of Jesus. So he goes on sunday to feed those who want more than just a meal but some how draw close to God. they can't go to he local churches for they have no money or nice clothes to ware. The pearcher feeds them from his own pocket and never asks for one dime in return nor does he seek support from anyone. He preaces jesus christ in spirit and in truth.  He has strived to be living example before them of the kind of beleiver we ought to be. There is no fancy forms or ritual, or religious peity and show business. Tell me what do you think. Is this man a phoney.

Elvisman

  • Guest
Re: A picture is worth how many words?
« Reply #113 on: Mon Jan 23, 2012 - 14:20:23 »
So you don't think a store front preacher can be true.  I know a preacher who preaches under a tree in a park every Sunday for several years now. He takes food for the poor who go to the soup kitchen everyday because there is no work, but hey don't serve on Sunday and no one  tells them of Jesus. So he goes on sunday to feed those who want more than just a meal but some how draw close to God. they can't go to he local churches for they have no money or nice clothes to ware. The pearcher feeds them from his own pocket and never asks for one dime in return nor does he seek support from anyone. He preaces jesus christ in spirit and in truth.  He has strived to be living example before them of the kind of beleiver we ought to be. There is no fancy forms or ritual, or religious peity and show business. Tell me what do you think. Is this man a phoney.

This sounds like a man who loves what he believes to be the Lord but is in desparate need of coming home to Christ's Church.

Sounds like a charitable man who has love in his heart but also has only a partial truth.

Finally - it sounds like a man who has forsaken the assembly of the Body of Christ as Heb. 10:25 warns against and has instead embraced an unbiblical "Lone Ranger" form of Christianity.

The Church is the Pillar and foundation of truth (1 Tim. 3:15).
It is the FULLNESS of Christ (Eph. 1:22-23).
Jesus compares his very SELF with his Church (Acts 9:4-5).

Offline FireSword

  • Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 2738
  • Manna: 41
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: A picture is worth how many words?
« Reply #114 on: Mon Jan 23, 2012 - 14:27:45 »
Blessed are they that feed the poor.

Why would the man go to a religious organization, that barely feed the poor.

He has a giving heart, no need to corrupt it by going to church full of wolves.

But no doubt there are some churches that are filled with good people.

Offline LightHammer

  • Defender of the Faith
  • Global Moderator
  • Legendary Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8424
  • Manna: 273
  • Gender: Male
  • I.C.T.H.Y.S.
    • View Profile
Re: A picture is worth how many words?
« Reply #115 on: Mon Jan 23, 2012 - 14:29:18 »
Blessed are they that feed the poor.

Why would the man go to a religious organization, that barely feed the poor.

He has a giving heart, no need to corrupt it by going to church full of wolves.

But no doubt there are some churches that are filled with good people.

You realize of course that we are the largest charity provider in the entire world don't you? You realize we feed more poor people than any other who walk this Earth?

Were you trying to be funny?

Offline FireSword

  • Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 2738
  • Manna: 41
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: A picture is worth how many words?
« Reply #116 on: Mon Jan 23, 2012 - 14:37:54 »
Blessed are they that feed the poor.

Why would the man go to a religious organization, that barely feed the poor.

He has a giving heart, no need to corrupt it by going to church full of wolves.

But no doubt there are some churches that are filled with good people.

You realize of course that we are the largest charity provider in the entire world don't you? You realize we feed more poor people than any other who walk this Earth?

Were you trying to be funny?

That data was compiled in 1215, when there where no other competition.

Now we have the Baptist, salvation army, Joyce Meyer ministries. If you combined all the protestant sect together, there would still be less protestants than Catholics, but I bet the amount given to the poor would be double even triple.

« Last Edit: Mon Jan 23, 2012 - 15:40:40 by FireSword »

Offline LightHammer

  • Defender of the Faith
  • Global Moderator
  • Legendary Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8424
  • Manna: 273
  • Gender: Male
  • I.C.T.H.Y.S.
    • View Profile
Re: A picture is worth how many words?
« Reply #117 on: Mon Jan 23, 2012 - 14:49:36 »
Blessed are they that feed the poor.

Why would the man go to a religious organization, that barely feed the poor.

He has a giving heart, no need to corrupt it by going to church full of wolves.

But no doubt there are some churches that are filled with good people.

You realize of course that we are the largest charity provider in the entire world don't you? You realize we feed more poor people than any other who walk this Earth?

Were you trying to be funny?

That data was compiled in 1215, when there where no other competition.

Now we have the Bill gates foundation, oxfam, Joyce Meyer ministries. If you combined all the protestant sect together, there would still be less protestants than Catholics, but I bet the amount given to the poor would be double even triple.



Prove it.

Offline Paulus

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1302
  • Manna: 138
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: A picture is worth how many words?
« Reply #118 on: Mon Jan 23, 2012 - 14:53:09 »






DURING THIS WEEK OF PRAYER FOR CHRISTIANITY UNITY THERE IS A LINK FOR THIS POST .

IT SHOWS POPE BENEDICT ON PILGRIMAGE TO THE ANGLICAN WESTMINSTER ABBEY , BEING WELCOMED BY AND GREETING CHRISTIAN LEADERS OF MANY TRADITIONS , BEFORE JOINING WITH THEM IN EVENING PRAYER LED BY ARCHBISHOP ROWEN WILLIAMS , ARCHBISHOP OF CANTERBURY .

www.youtube.com/watch?v=1pGVSv4h6fA Small | Large



I am sure there is a lesson in this for all of us .

« Last Edit: Mon Jan 23, 2012 - 15:02:26 by Paulus »

Offline FireSword

  • Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 2738
  • Manna: 41
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: A picture is worth how many words?
« Reply #119 on: Mon Jan 23, 2012 - 15:05:05 »
Blessed are they that feed the poor.

Why would the man go to a religious organization, that barely feed the poor.

He has a giving heart, no need to corrupt it by going to church full of wolves.

But no doubt there are some churches that are filled with good people.

You realize of course that we are the largest charity provider in the entire world don't you? You realize we feed more poor people than any other who walk this Earth?

Were you trying to be funny?

That data was compiled in 1215, when there where no other competition.

Now we have the Bill gates foundation, oxfam, Joyce Meyer ministries. If you combined all the protestant sect together, there would still be less protestants than Catholics, but I bet the amount given to the poor would be double even triple.



Prove it.


That is impossible due to the sheer number of denominations, also one would have to gather the donation statistics of each church.

But if you take the main ones, Baptist, Methodist, Pentecoastals, evangelicals, then maybe a mathematician could come up with some kind of formula, to work out average donations etc.

But I also must bear in mind that conversion to Christ is far more important than feeding the poor, as the words of Christ give everlasting life, whereas earthly food only prolongs life for a season.
Bless

Elvisman

  • Guest
Re: A picture is worth how many words?
« Reply #120 on: Mon Jan 23, 2012 - 15:28:04 »
Blessed are they that feed the poor.

Why would the man go to a religious organization, that barely feed the poor.

He has a giving heart, no need to corrupt it by going to church full of wolves.

But no doubt there are some churches that are filled with good people.


What does that have to do with forsaking the assembly of the Body of Christ?
What does that have to do with this street preacher only having a partial truth?

Actually, the Catholic Church IS one of the largest - if not THE largest charitable organization in the world.

Not only does the Church and its many charitable organizations feed more needy people than anybody else, it also runs more orphanages, more schools, more missions and hospitals than any other entity.
The Catholic Church is also the largest healthcare provider in the world.

Now - let's say we were the 2nd largest - or 3rd, or 5th or 10th - your erroneous statement that the Church "barely feeds the poor" is either a lesson in total ignorance or a lesson in LIES . . .

Offline LightHammer

  • Defender of the Faith
  • Global Moderator
  • Legendary Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8424
  • Manna: 273
  • Gender: Male
  • I.C.T.H.Y.S.
    • View Profile
Re: A picture is worth how many words?
« Reply #121 on: Mon Jan 23, 2012 - 15:47:04 »
Blessed are they that feed the poor.

Why would the man go to a religious organization, that barely feed the poor.

He has a giving heart, no need to corrupt it by going to church full of wolves.

But no doubt there are some churches that are filled with good people.


You realize of course that we are the largest charity provider in the entire world don't you? You realize we feed more poor people than any other who walk this Earth?

Were you trying to be funny?


That data was compiled in 1215, when there where no other competition.

Now we have the Bill gates foundation, oxfam, Joyce Meyer ministries. If you combined all the protestant sect together, there would still be less protestants than Catholics, but I bet the amount given to the poor would be double even triple.




Prove it.



That is impossible due to the sheer number of denominations, also one would have to gather the donation statistics of each church.

But if you take the main ones, Baptist, Methodist, Pentecoastals, evangelicals, then maybe a mathematician could come up with some kind of formula, to work out average donations etc.

But I also must bear in mind that conversion to Christ is far more important than feeding the poor, as the words of Christ give everlasting life, whereas earthly food only prolongs life for a season.
Bless



Don't make a claim unless you can substantiate it. It will help keep you from making false assertions like you just did.

http://www.zenit.org/article-22024?l=english

To specify within the Church.

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_is_the_largest_charity_in_the_world

I don't play the numbers game. Its shallow and immaterial. I do however believe the teachings and the works of a society help determine who they are and we hold it down.



« Last Edit: Mon Jan 23, 2012 - 15:57:11 by LightHammer »

Offline FireSword

  • Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 2738
  • Manna: 41
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: A picture is worth how many words?
« Reply #122 on: Mon Jan 23, 2012 - 15:52:39 »
Blessed are they that feed the poor.

Why would the man go to a religious organization, that barely feed the poor.

He has a giving heart, no need to corrupt it by going to church full of wolves.

But no doubt there are some churches that are filled with good people.


What does that have to do with forsaking the assembly of the Body of Christ?
What does that have to do with this street preacher only having a partial truth?


He did not forsake the assembly, he is a preacher and has his disciples. God called us to preach and some individuals go out there to preach the gospel, that is their calling and sacrifice, to bring the good news to the masses. But your idea is that only if he passes catholic man made scholarship can he preach the gospel. Yet Jesus choose uneducated fishermen and laymen to preach the gospel, in spirit and truth. Those of the spirit are infinitely more powerful than those who simply rely on their flesh, blood and brain. Chariots and horses fail, but those who rely on the living God shall renew their strength as Eagles wings and mount up to the stars. Those who rely on flesh are simply an annoying noise, who have no power to change lives.

Actually, the Catholic Church IS one of the largest - if not THE largest charitable organization in the world.

Not only does the Church and its many charitable organizations feed more needy people than anybody else, it also runs more orphanages, more schools, more missions and hospitals than any other entity.
The Catholic Church is also the largest healthcare provider in the world.

Now - let's say we were the 2nd largest - or 3rd, or 5th or 10th - your erroneous statement that the Church "barely feeds the poor" is either a lesson in total ignorance or a lesson in LIES . . .

I confess that the catholic church is hidden to my eyes. Maybe this is the Lords way to keep me away from the invisible organization.


Offline FireSword

  • Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 2738
  • Manna: 41
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: A picture is worth how many words?
« Reply #123 on: Mon Jan 23, 2012 - 15:59:33 »
Don't make a claim unless you can substantiate it. It will help you from making false assertions. Like you just did.


http://www.zenit.org/article-22024?l=english

------------------

I have learned that from some of you catholics here.

-------------
I don't play the numbers game. Its shallow and immaterial. I do however believe the teachings and the works of a society help determine who they are and we hold it down.

----


Your getting more mature  ::smile::


Offline LightHammer

  • Defender of the Faith
  • Global Moderator
  • Legendary Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8424
  • Manna: 273
  • Gender: Male
  • I.C.T.H.Y.S.
    • View Profile
Re: A picture is worth how many words?
« Reply #124 on: Mon Jan 23, 2012 - 16:01:44 »
Don't make a claim unless you can substantiate it. It will help you from making false assertions. Like you just did.


http://www.zenit.org/article-22024?l=english

------------------

I have learned that from some of you catholics here.

-------------
I don't play the numbers game. Its shallow and immaterial. I do however believe the teachings and the works of a society help determine who they are and we hold it down.

----


Your getting more mature  ::smile::




Was that sarcasm?  ::lookaround::

Elvisman

  • Guest
Re: A picture is worth how many words?
« Reply #125 on: Mon Jan 23, 2012 - 16:17:37 »
I confess that the catholic church is hidden to my eyes. Maybe this is the Lords way to keep me away from the invisible organization.

The Catholic Church is not hoidden from your eyes unless you lived in a cave high atop Mt. Everest and have never come down.
No - you're problem is making false statements and bearing false witness, like "The Catholic Church barely feeds the poor."

Truly one of your more preposterous claims . . .

Offline LightHammer

  • Defender of the Faith
  • Global Moderator
  • Legendary Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8424
  • Manna: 273
  • Gender: Male
  • I.C.T.H.Y.S.
    • View Profile
Re: A picture is worth how many words?
« Reply #126 on: Mon Jan 23, 2012 - 16:20:12 »
I confess that the catholic church is hidden to my eyes. Maybe this is the Lords way to keep me away from the invisible organization.

The Catholic Church is not hoidden from your eyes unless you lived in a cave high atop Mt. Everest and have never come down.
No - you're problem is making false statements and bearing false witness, like "The Catholic Church barely feeds the poor."

Truly one of your more preposterous claims . . .

 ::giggle::

Firesword is one of the more innocent ones. He doesn't seem to be tainted by bigotry and seeks genuine discourse and a more orthodox understanding of who we are. Cut em some slack Big Brother. He's coming around.

Offline mclees8

  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5179
  • Manna: 135
    • View Profile
Re: A picture is worth how many words?
« Reply #127 on: Mon Jan 23, 2012 - 16:43:19 »
Blessed are they that feed the poor.

Why would the man go to a religious organization, that barely feed the poor.

He has a giving heart, no need to corrupt it by going to church full of wolves.

But no doubt there are some churches that are filled with good people.

You realize of course that we are the largest charity provider in the entire world don't you? You realize we feed more poor people than any other who walk this Earth?

Were you trying to be funny?

That data was compiled in 1215, when there where no other competition.

Now we have the Bill gates foundation, oxfam, Joyce Meyer ministries. If you combined all the protestant sect together, there would still be less protestants than Catholics, but I bet the amount given to the poor would be double even triple.



Prove it.


That is impossible due to the sheer number of denominations, also one would have to gather the donation statistics of each church.

But if you take the main ones, Baptist, Methodist, Pentecoastals, evangelicals, then maybe a mathematician could come up with some kind of formula, to work out average donations etc.

But I also must bear in mind that conversion to Christ is far more important than feeding the poor, as the words of Christ give everlasting life, whereas earthly food only prolongs life for a season.
Bless


This man goes to minister Christ not to just be charitale. Sorry but this is not about who,s organized church outdoes the other. This is about every believer that  names the name of Christ. Your organized church does not save you but the life you live will all be accountable.

Elvisman

  • Guest
Re: A picture is worth how many words?
« Reply #128 on: Mon Jan 23, 2012 - 17:26:29 »
This man goes to minister Christ not to just be charitale. Sorry but this is not about who,s organized church outdoes the other. This is about every believer that  names the name of Christ. Your organized church does not save you but the life you live will all be accountable.

You're right.   It's NOT about who's "organized church" outdoes the other.
It's about the Mystical Body of Christ - HIS Church. 
It's about those seeking the truth not HAVING the fullness of Christ - no matter HOW many people they minister to.

Offline asachild

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 170
  • Manna: 5
    • View Profile
Re: A picture is worth how many words?
« Reply #129 on: Mon Jan 23, 2012 - 19:24:22 »
On the issue of giving - are we talking total or percentage per member?  Each denomination or is this a Catholic vs Protestant smackdown?  :)  Also, this is the giving by members into the church, not what the church gives back into the membership, community, or world.

I ran across this which broke it down this way:
http://library.generousgiving.org/page.asp?sec=4&page=352

Denomination:   Income/member percentage

African Methodist Episcopal Church 2%
American Baptist Churches U.S.A. 2.5
Assemblies of God 5.25
Christian Church (Disciples of Christ) 1.75
Episcopal Church 1.75
Evangelical Lutheran Church in America 1.5
Lutheran Church-Missouri Synod 2
National Baptist Convention, U.S.A. 2.75
Presbyterian Church in America 3
Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.) 2.5
Reformed Church in America 3.25
Roman Catholic Church 1.25
Southern Baptist Convention 3
United Church of Christ 2
United Methodist Church 1.75

Please note, there is no claim to the list being done scientifically, related dates are given in the text, references listed at the bottom of page.

Another list from 2002 puts it this way with the dollars in Billions:
http://tinyurl.com/6nvt8g3

Protestant denominational giving as reported in the    $30.39
Yearbook of American & Canadian Churches

Church of Latter Day Saints 2.04

Catholic contributions of offertory     9.16
Diocesan appeals, Nat'l. collections

Judaism  3.06

Regards,
AsAChild

Offline LightHammer

  • Defender of the Faith
  • Global Moderator
  • Legendary Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8424
  • Manna: 273
  • Gender: Male
  • I.C.T.H.Y.S.
    • View Profile
Re: A picture is worth how many words?
« Reply #130 on: Mon Jan 23, 2012 - 19:49:23 »
On the issue of giving - are we talking total or percentage per member?  Each denomination or is this a Catholic vs Protestant smackdown?  :)  Also, this is the giving by members into the church, not what the church gives back into the membership, community, or world.

I ran across this which broke it down this way:
http://library.generousgiving.org/page.asp?sec=4&page=352

Denomination:   Income/member percentage

African Methodist Episcopal Church 2%
American Baptist Churches U.S.A. 2.5
Assemblies of God 5.25
Christian Church (Disciples of Christ) 1.75
Episcopal Church 1.75
Evangelical Lutheran Church in America 1.5
Lutheran Church-Missouri Synod 2
National Baptist Convention, U.S.A. 2.75
Presbyterian Church in America 3
Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.) 2.5
Reformed Church in America 3.25
Roman Catholic Church 1.25
Southern Baptist Convention 3
United Church of Christ 2
United Methodist Church 1.75

Please note, there is no claim to the list being done scientifically, related dates are given in the text, references listed at the bottom of page.

Another list from 2002 puts it this way with the dollars in Billions:
http://tinyurl.com/6nvt8g3

Protestant denominational giving as reported in the    $30.39
Yearbook of American & Canadian Churches

Church of Latter Day Saints 2.04

Catholic contributions of offertory     9.16
Diocesan appeals, Nat'l. collections

Judaism  3.06

Regards,
AsAChild


Thank you. I read your sources they seem to also attest to not being able to gather adequate information on the Church. Their entire stats for Catholic charities come from one Joseph Harris' research. I have no quarrels with this as Dr. Harris is a renowned researcher and his accuracy is validated. However the issue is in that Dr. Harris only counted the donations of parishes within a few regions. He did not count parishes in other regions or the many Catholic charities that give autonomously from any parish. Therein lies the flaw in his count but again I'm not accusing you of anything. You were very honest in your presentation.

For that I thank you.

Offline FireSword

  • Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 2738
  • Manna: 41
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: A picture is worth how many words?
« Reply #131 on: Mon Jan 23, 2012 - 20:58:27 »
Thanks for that data.


Reformed Church in America 3.25
Roman Catholic Church 1.25

MY prediction was correct.

1.25 times three = 3.25. Three times as much as catholic giving.


Not that it matters  ::lookaround::

lighthammer
However the issue is in that Dr. Harris only counted the donations of parishes within a few regions. He did not count parishes in other regions or the many Catholic charities that give autonomously from any parish. Therein lies the flaw in his count but again I'm not accusing you of anything. You were very honest in your presentation.
-------------------------------
He makes predictions based on those surveys. All the others are also predictions.

quote
We developed three methods for estimating giving to religion using different types of data collected
from different sources. For 2002, these three estimates are within five percent of one another. The
GUSA estimate is the lowest of the three estimates. This triangulation of three disparate
methodologies to yield estimates that are within 5 percent of one another suggests – but cannot
prove – that the results in GUSA are fairly accurate. It seems highly unlikely that three very
different methodologies would all approximate the same estimate AND that these estimates would
all substantially over- or under-estimate the actual amounts of giving to religion in the United
States.

-----------------

The problem with this data however, even though interesting, it only accounts for the amount given to the churches, rather than, showing where each church spends its resources. I am not sure if that is ethical for the world to know that type of information though as it erodes privacy rights, unless of course the information is freely given.




Offline Paulus

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1302
  • Manna: 138
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: A picture is worth how many words?
« Reply #132 on: Tue Jan 24, 2012 - 05:41:14 »






DURING THIS WEEK OF PRAYER FOR CHRISTIANITY UNITY THERE IS A LINK FOR THIS POST .

IT SHOWS POPE BENEDICT ON PILGRIMAGE TO THE ANGLICAN WESTMINSTER ABBEY , BEING WELCOMED BY AND GREETING CHRISTIAN LEADERS OF MANY TRADITIONS , BEFORE JOINING WITH THEM IN EVENING PRAYER LED BY ARCHBISHOP ROWEN WILLIAMS , ARCHBISHOP OF CANTERBURY .

www.youtube.com/watch?v=1pGVSv4h6fA


I am sure there is a lesson in this for all of us .




UT UNUM SINT .

Jesus' prayer , " May they all be one . "  ::prayinghard:: ::prayinghard:: ::prayinghard:: ::prayinghard:: ::prayinghard:: ::prayinghard::

Offline Paulus

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1302
  • Manna: 138
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: A picture is worth how many words?
« Reply #133 on: Tue Jan 24, 2012 - 13:43:29 »






DURING THIS WEEK OF PRAYER FOR CHRISTIANITY UNITY THERE IS A LINK FOR THIS POST .

IT SHOWS POPE BENEDICT ON PILGRIMAGE TO THE ANGLICAN WESTMINSTER ABBEY , BEING WELCOMED BY AND GREETING CHRISTIAN LEADERS OF MANY TRADITIONS , BEFORE JOINING WITH THEM IN EVENING PRAYER LED BY ARCHBISHOP ROWEN WILLIAMS , ARCHBISHOP OF CANTERBURY .

www.youtube.com/watch?v=1pGVSv4h6fA


I am sure there is a lesson in this for all of us .




UT UNUM SINT .

Jesus' prayer , " May they all be one . "  ::prayinghard:: ::prayinghard:: ::prayinghard:: ::prayinghard:: ::prayinghard:: ::prayinghard::



Thank God that some are working to fulfill the prayer of Christ , " MAY THEY ALL BE ONE . "

www.youtube.com/watch?v=dGQIO2cQLLE Small | Large


May the Holy Spirit continue to lead them into ever closer unity .
« Last Edit: Tue Jan 24, 2012 - 13:51:58 by Paulus »

Elvisman

  • Guest
Re: A picture is worth how many words?
« Reply #134 on: Tue Jan 24, 2012 - 13:59:59 »
On the issue of giving - are we talking total or percentage per member?  Each denomination or is this a Catholic vs Protestant smackdown?  :)  Also, this is the giving by members into the church, not what the church gives back into the membership, community, or world.

I ran across this which broke it down this way:
http://library.generousgiving.org/page.asp?sec=4&page=352

Denomination:   Income/member percentage

African Methodist Episcopal Church 2%
American Baptist Churches U.S.A. 2.5
Assemblies of God 5.25
Christian Church (Disciples of Christ) 1.75
Episcopal Church 1.75
Evangelical Lutheran Church in America 1.5
Lutheran Church-Missouri Synod 2
National Baptist Convention, U.S.A. 2.75
Presbyterian Church in America 3
Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.) 2.5
Reformed Church in America 3.25
Roman Catholic Church 1.25
Southern Baptist Convention 3
United Church of Christ 2
United Methodist Church 1.75

Please note, there is no claim to the list being done scientifically, related dates are given in the text, references listed at the bottom of page.

Another list from 2002 puts it this way with the dollars in Billions:
http://tinyurl.com/6nvt8g3

Protestant denominational giving as reported in the    $30.39
Yearbook of American & Canadian Churches

Church of Latter Day Saints 2.04

Catholic contributions of offertory     9.16
Diocesan appeals, Nat'l. collections

Judaism  3.06

Regards,
AsAChild


Interesting - but that wasn't the claim that was originally made.

The claim was that the Cathoic Church is the Largest Private Charitble Organization (or close to the top) in the world.
In other words, nobody provides more charitable service than the Catholic Church.
Here's how Forbes lists the top U.S. charitable organizations for 2010.

NOTE that the Catholic Church is not listed as a whole - ONLY Catholic Charities, an umbrella group based in Alexandria, Va.
The Catholic Church as a whole provides MUCH more

1. United Way $3.8 bil (donations)
2. Salvation Army $1.7 bil
3. AmeriCares $1.2 bil
4. Feed The Children $1.2 bil
5. Food For The Poor $1.1 bil
6. Catholic Charities USA $940 mil
7. American Cancer Society $900 mil
8. World Vision $865 mil
9. YMCA $775 mil
10. Feeding America $680 mil

Elvisman

  • Guest
Re: A picture is worth how many words?
« Reply #135 on: Tue Jan 24, 2012 - 14:53:15 »
I ALSO found this, which shows the Cathoplic Church is FAR and away the largest charitable contributor among churches in America.

Again - the ONLY reason I post this is to rebut FireSward's inane comment that the Catholic Church "barely feeds the poor".
The following figures are in Millions:

Roman Catholic Church   $33,000
Southern Baptist Convention   $7,970
United Methodist Church   $4,760
LDS (Morman) ‡   $4,900
Evangelical Lutheran Church in America   2,300
Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.)   $2,920
Lutheran Church-Missouri Synod   $1,200
Episcopal Church   $2,230
Assemblies of God   $338
United Church of Christ   $824
American Baptist Churches U.S.A.   $422
Christian Church (Disciples of Christ)   $483
Presbyterian Church in America   $484
Reformed Church in America   $264

Offline asachild

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 170
  • Manna: 5
    • View Profile
Re: A picture is worth how many words?
« Reply #136 on: Tue Jan 24, 2012 - 15:21:04 »
There's contradictory information available.  A book entitled "Why Catholics Don't Give, And What Can be Done About It"  by Charles Zech, Chair of the Economics Department at Villanova University.

Quoting from that book, "Annual household donations by Catholics are only one-third of the donations given by Assemblies of God members, one-half of the donations of Baptists and Presbyterians, and well below donations of Lutherans."

http://www.philanthropyroundtable.org/topic/excellence_in_philanthropy/stepping_up_to_the_collection_plate

"Still, as the title of this book suggests, Catholics do not give either to their Church or to other charitable causes at nearly the level that might be expected, given their affluence. This despite clear Church teachings that emphasize both denominational and individual responsibility for the poor.

How bad is it? Catholic households give barely more than 1 percent of their income to their Church—about half of what most mainline Protestant families give, and far below what Jewish, Mormon, and more evangelical Protestant households contribute."

Also, the footnote to your list says "* Catholic Church Giving is a very rough estimate. "
http://donsnotes.com/society/donations.html

You know, I think this is one of those things that would be greatly difficult to track.  Especially when there is no specified criteria for the data being selected.  When it comes to giving per household, it appears that the non-Catholics give at a higher rate.  The Mormons blow us all away percentage/household wise. When it comes to denominations giving to charities, then it looks like the Catholic church gives at a higher rate. 

But, I question how the contributions that are given to charities by individuals directly rather than going through their church is counted (I suspect the answer is that it is not in these figures).  When you send money and goods to Haiti directly or to an organization geared to collect for the specific trauma, the organization doesn't require you to enter your denomination so those are contributions that are never 'credited' to a denomination.

I think it safe to say, that few of us give at the level that we should and that many of us live at a higher level than is needed.

Regards,
AsAChild

Elvisman

  • Guest
Re: A picture is worth how many words?
« Reply #137 on: Tue Jan 24, 2012 - 17:30:14 »
There's contradictory information available.  A book entitled "Why Catholics Don't Give, And What Can be Done About It"  by Charles Zech, Chair of the Economics Department at Villanova University.

Quoting from that book, "Annual household donations by Catholics are only one-third of the donations given by Assemblies of God members, one-half of the donations of Baptists and Presbyterians, and well below donations of Lutherans."

http://www.philanthropyroundtable.org/topic/excellence_in_philanthropy/stepping_up_to_the_collection_plate

"Still, as the title of this book suggests, Catholics do not give either to their Church or to other charitable causes at nearly the level that might be expected, given their affluence. This despite clear Church teachings that emphasize both denominational and individual responsibility for the poor.

How bad is it? Catholic households give barely more than 1 percent of their income to their Church—about half of what most mainline Protestant families give, and far below what Jewish, Mormon, and more evangelical Protestant households contribute."

Also, the footnote to your list says "* Catholic Church Giving is a very rough estimate. "
http://donsnotes.com/society/donations.html

You know, I think this is one of those things that would be greatly difficult to track.  Especially when there is no specified criteria for the data being selected.  When it comes to giving per household, it appears that the non-Catholics give at a higher rate.  The Mormons blow us all away percentage/household wise. When it comes to denominations giving to charities, then it looks like the Catholic church gives at a higher rate.  

But, I question how the contributions that are given to charities by individuals directly rather than going through their church is counted (I suspect the answer is that it is not in these figures).  When you send money and goods to Haiti directly or to an organization geared to collect for the specific trauma, the organization doesn't require you to enter your denomination so those are contributions that are never 'credited' to a denomination.

I think it safe to say, that few of us give at the level that we should and that many of us live at a higher level than is needed.

Regards,
AsAChild


AGAIN - Per capita contributions from the laity is NOT what was being discussed.

FireSword made a spurious claim about the Church when he said that the Catholic Church "barely feeds the poor", which is an outright LIE.  I called hinm on it because this is the very type of anti-Catholicism it is my sworn mission to expose.

I have shown that the Catholic Church as a whole gives more in services, goods, money and healthcare than any other ecclesial community - PERIOD.

I'm not making excuses for the per-capita contributions of Catholic Church-goers.  For that matter - ALL Christian Churches in the U.S. could and SHOULD do more to make an impact on society.  
Shame on ALL of us for the fact that Abortion still exists in the country.  
Shame on ALL of us for the fact that there are people in this country who go to bed hungry at night or have no place to live.
Shame on ALL of us for the fact that our schools teach the garbage they do to our children.

Offline FireSword

  • Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 2738
  • Manna: 41
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: A picture is worth how many words?
« Reply #138 on: Tue Jan 24, 2012 - 18:09:35 »
I'm not making excuses for the per-capita  contributions of Catholic Church-goers.  For that matter - ALL Christian Churches in the U.S. could and SHOULD do more to make an impact on society. 
Shame on ALL of us for the fact that Abortion still exists in the country. 
Shame on ALL of us for the fact that there are people in this country who go to bed hungry  at night or have no  place to live.
Shame on ALL of us for the fact that our schools  teach the garbage they do to our children.
Elvis

 ::smile::

A stronger statement than  "barely feeds the poor"

Your statement says shame on ALL, Catholic church and all other churches and maybe the world too for not feeding them at ALL.

I think your values are close to my innane comment than you'd like to admit.

Perhaps, I'm not sure shaming is the best policy in order to stimulate people into action of good deeds though  ::shrug::  , maybe it works to a degree, but feeding the world requires supernatural help from Christ.




Offline asachild

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 170
  • Manna: 5
    • View Profile
Re: A picture is worth how many words?
« Reply #139 on: Tue Jan 24, 2012 - 18:21:52 »
Quote
Shame on ALL of us for the fact that Abortion still exists in the country.
Shame on ALL of us for the fact that there are people in this country who go to bed hungry  at night or have no  place to live.
Shame on ALL of us for the fact that our schools  teach the garbage they do to our children.

And...
 
that divorce is as common among Christians as it is among unbelievers.

that abortion is as common among Christians as it is among unbelievers.

that Christian bookstores are filled to the brim with unnecessary plastic objects because we buy them.

that our families are in disarray and disorder.

that Christian women have lost sight of modesty.

that Christian men pursue sports and/or entertainment more than they pursue God.

Regards,
AsAChild