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Offline mclees8

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Re: A question for Catholics about Love not the world
« Reply #60 on: May 29, 2011, 02:09:48 PM »
My previous post still stands. Calling the Wh0re an apostate Christian Church is YOUR tradition, YOUR apologetic, YOUR man made reasoning trying to project what sounds right onto Sacred Scripture. No where, not once, in all of Sacred Scripture is the Wh0re of Babylon taught to be an apostate Christian Church.

The angel explained clearly what the Wh0re of Babylon truly is in lamen terms but YOU, Mclees the Great refuse(and I mean refuses hard) to acknowledge it. The angel said without symbolism or metaphoric expression, that the Wh0re of Babylon is a city that sits on seven hills riding the back of an empire made up of ten conquered kingdoms.


Period Mcless. I mean its done. Done. There's no way for you to twist the vision of the Wh0re to fit an entity that didn't exist distinctively on its own for another 1000 years. You protestants truly blow my mind. Sorry we don't your man made interpretation of Revelation 17 because within that very same chapter THE TRUE INTERPRETATION IS ALREADY GIVEN. Given by an angel of God, we don't need to hear your profuse attempts to "create" an explanation. It is given right there in the text. Period. 


Actually I see the interpretation quite clearly as being symbolic and metaphor. Actua mind. I think your playing doge ball just being the contrary argumentative person you are. I believe in an unbiased vote my idea would win. But at least Im glad to have had the opportunity to identify Babylon for what it is having so many views.

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Re: A question for Catholics about Love not the world
« Reply #60 on: May 29, 2011, 02:09:48 PM »

Offline LightHammer

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Re: A question for Catholics about Love not the world
« Reply #61 on: May 29, 2011, 02:42:59 PM »
My previous post still stands. Calling the Wh0re an apostate Christian Church is YOUR tradition, YOUR apologetic, YOUR man made reasoning trying to project what sounds right onto Sacred Scripture. No where, not once, in all of Sacred Scripture is the Wh0re of Babylon taught to be an apostate Christian Church.

The angel explained clearly what the Wh0re of Babylon truly is in lamen terms but YOU, Mclees the Great refuse(and I mean refuses hard) to acknowledge it. The angel said without symbolism or metaphoric expression, that the Wh0re of Babylon is a city that sits on seven hills riding the back of an empire made up of ten conquered kingdoms.


Period Mcless. I mean its done. Done. There's no way for you to twist the vision of the Wh0re to fit an entity that didn't exist distinctively on its own for another 1000 years. You protestants truly blow my mind. Sorry we don't your man made interpretation of Revelation 17 because within that very same chapter THE TRUE INTERPRETATION IS ALREADY GIVEN. Given by an angel of God, we don't need to hear your profuse attempts to "create" an explanation. It is given right there in the text. Period. 


Actually I see the interpretation quite clearly as being symbolic and metaphor. Actua mind. I think your playing doge ball just being the contrary argumentative person you are. I believe in an unbiased vote my idea would win. But at least Im glad to have had the opportunity to identify Babylon for what it is having so many views.

Tell yourself whatever helps you sleep at night, battle. You know just as well as I that you're only foling yourself.

Quote
Revelation 17:7And the angel said unto me, Wherefore didst thou marvel? I will tell thee the mystery of the woman, and of the beast that carrieth her, which hath the seven heads and ten horns.


Stop marveling Mclees. Stop looking the vision riddled with symbolism and metaphors trying to figure out the meaning on your own, the answer is given to you just as it was given to the Early Church.

8The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

 
Quote
9And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.

 10And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.

 11And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.

 12And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.

 13These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast.

 14These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful.

 15And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues.

 16And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire.

 17For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled.

18And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.

Let it go Mclees you have been proven wrong.

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Re: A question for Catholics about Love not the world
« Reply #61 on: May 29, 2011, 02:42:59 PM »

Offline mclees8

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Re: A question for Catholics about Love not the world
« Reply #62 on: May 30, 2011, 06:11:55 AM »
My previous post still stands. Calling the Wh0re an apostate Christian Church is YOUR tradition, YOUR apologetic, YOUR man made reasoning trying to project what sounds right onto Sacred Scripture. No where, not once, in all of Sacred Scripture is the Wh0re of Babylon taught to be an apostate Christian Church.

The angel explained clearly what the Wh0re of Babylon truly is in lamen terms but YOU, Mclees the Great refuse(and I mean refuses hard) to acknowledge it. The angel said without symbolism or metaphoric expression, that the Wh0re of Babylon is a city that sits on seven hills riding the back of an empire made up of ten conquered kingdoms.


Period Mcless. I mean its done. Done. There's no way for you to twist the vision of the Wh0re to fit an entity that didn't exist distinctively on its own for another 1000 years. You protestants truly blow my mind. Sorry we don't your man made interpretation of Revelation 17 because within that very same chapter THE TRUE INTERPRETATION IS ALREADY GIVEN. Given by an angel of God, we don't need to hear your profuse attempts to "create" an explanation. It is given right there in the text. Period. 


Actually I see the interpretation quite clearly as being symbolic and metaphor. Actua mind. I think your playing doge ball just being the contrary argumentative person you are. I believe in an unbiased vote my idea would win. But at least Im glad to have had the opportunity to identify Babylon for what it is having so many views.

Tell yourself whatever helps you sleep at night, battle. You know just as well as I that you're only foling yourself.

Quote
Revelation 17:7And the angel said unto me, Wherefore didst thou marvel? I will tell thee the mystery of the woman, and of the beast that carrieth her, which hath the seven heads and ten horns.


Stop marveling Mclees. Stop looking the vision riddled with symbolism and metaphors trying to figure out the meaning on your own, the answer is given to you just as it was given to the Early Church.

8The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

 
Quote
9And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.

 10And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.

 11And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.

 12And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.

 13These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast.

 14These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful.

 15And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the wh*re sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues.

 16And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the wh*re, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire.

 17For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled.

18And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.

Let it go Mclees you have been proven wrong.

Proven Wrong? I here your ego again.

There are many different views of these verse. No one has the exact pat answer.

But i believe the general consensus would be is the whore of Babylon is the Vatican. And when we look there is really only one entity that fits every detail and description of 17. Har;ot whore means by biblical terms refers to Gods people who have disobeyed Gods commandments to make no league with world and its idolitiries  Yet we know that the Vatican is deeply evolved with the world. which is Babylon. And for you to deny that would be utterly blind, but thats pride and ego for you. That great city  where the woman sits not only speaks of a literal place with a description it symbolizes Babylon because it is everything the world is.  religiously, politically and commercially. Rome is a capital place that is the epitome of Babylon. One has to discern that.   It has the powerful religious order there, It was the capital of the most powerful Roman empire. that ruled over a thousand years. It was the hub of commercial enterprise. wealth flowed to and from Rome. To deny this would be utterly blind. So it is literally and symbolically  Babylon. it really jumps right off the page at you.

You always pick at heirs to shift things. Like The vatican only sits on one hill but it is literally a part of all that Rome symbolizes and is, and Rome sits on seven hills. Oh we could go on and on about all this but I know what is realistically true.

It also describe as sitting on many waters. We know the peoples and nations tongues  means power and influence on a world scale and that the Vatican has, She rides the back of the beast. The beast is summed up as the worlds political messiah who will have ten nations to back him up. There is a lot of speculation as to who these ten are  but its enough that we know ten will give him power. and when it is no longer needed he will throw down the whore who he secretly despises and destroy her.  After all one who wants to be God god of earth would not want to share his position with the popes. Well i have things to do now and i must go.

See ya latter LH.

Offline LightHammer

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Re: A question for Catholics about Love not the world
« Reply #63 on: May 30, 2011, 10:06:14 AM »
The Vatican can't be the WH0re because the Wh0re rests of seven hills Vatican rests on one.

Try to stay a lined with Scripture.

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Re: A question for Catholics about Love not the world
« Reply #63 on: May 30, 2011, 10:06:14 AM »

Offline mclees8

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Re: A question for Catholics about Love not the world
« Reply #64 on: May 30, 2011, 12:29:41 PM »
The Vatican can't be the WH0re because the Wh0re rests of seven hills Vatican rests on one.

Try to stay a lined with Scripture.


I am. the Vatican was integrated with Rome religiously and politically and Rome is on seven.  As stated before her power was over Emperors just as 17 sugests

It matters not that the vatican is only built on one hill The women sits on seven as one with Rome Code name Babylon




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Re: A question for Catholics about Love not the world
« Reply #64 on: May 30, 2011, 12:29:41 PM »



Offline LightHammer

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Re: A question for Catholics about Love not the world
« Reply #65 on: May 30, 2011, 12:58:48 PM »
The Vatican can't be the WH0re because the Wh0re rests of seven hills Vatican rests on one.

Try to stay a lined with Scripture.


I am. the Vatican was integrated with Rome religiously and politically and Rome is on seven.  As stated before her power was over Emperors just as 17 sugests

It matters not that the vatican is only built on one hill The women sits on seven as one with Rome Code name Babylon





So which is it Mclees. Is the Vatican the Wh0re or is Rome the Wh0re?

Offline mclees8

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Re: A question for Catholics about Love not the world
« Reply #66 on: May 31, 2011, 05:58:17 AM »
The Vatican can't be the WH0re because the Wh0re rests of seven hills Vatican rests on one.

Try to stay a lined with Scripture.


I am. the Vatican was integrated with Rome religiously and politically and Rome is on seven.  As stated before her power was over Emperors just as 17 sugests

It matters not that the vatican is only built on one hill The women sits on seven as one with Rome Code name Babylon





So which is it Mclees. Is the Vatican the Wh0re or is Rome the Wh0re?


The women is the whore. The women is an apostate christian church She is one with Rome, one with Babylon she is one with antichrist.  She is one with the city that is Babylon. The great city is not only a picture of the world and lust for power wealth, but he city is metaphor for the whole world and its system which is antichrist . Babylon is identified with false religion. She and this city are one
Why do we know this?
Both her and the beast are described as having seven heads and ten horns Rev. 13:1 -- 17:3-- 17:7 They are one in the same. they are joined at the hip.

Offline LightHammer

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Re: A question for Catholics about Love not the world
« Reply #67 on: May 31, 2011, 10:12:05 AM »
Well I understand your position. That's enough for now. I feel secure that any who read this thread will be able to discern the Truth of the matter. After all these pages people can easily see what Scripture actually teaches the Wh0re and not what some people want Scripture to say.

The angel explained it clearly. That's enough for any believer.

Offline mclees8

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Re: A question for Catholics about Love not the world
« Reply #68 on: May 31, 2011, 11:12:43 AM »
Well I understand your position. That's enough for now. I feel secure that any who read this thread will be able to discern the Truth of the matter. After all these pages people can easily see what Scripture actually teaches the Wh0re and not what some people want Scripture to say.

The angel explained it clearly. That's enough for any believer.

You know you really remind me of Nicodemus. He was a carnal literal person also. he thought when Jesus said you must be born again he thought can man go back to the whom.  ::headscratch::

Offline LightHammer

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Re: A question for Catholics about Love not the world
« Reply #69 on: May 31, 2011, 11:28:04 AM »
Perhaps.

However Nicodemus did not understand that Christ spoke in parables when not in the private company of His Apostles. I understand that.

I also understand Revelation 17:1-6 was a metaphoric vision similar to that of one of Christ's parables but Revelation 7:7-18 is the explanation of that metaphoric expression.


We don't need your modernist interpretation based on evaluation of things that occurred after the revelation was given.

Like Scripture teaches the Wh0re in question resides on seven hills. You say the Wh0re is an appendage of the city on seven hills. Contradiction.

The Wh0re was reigning on its 6th leader at the time the Prophecy was given. The Catholic Church was only on its 2nd leader. Pope Clement. Contradiction.

The Wh0re was drunk with the blood of the saints in 99 AD. The Roman Catholic Church didn't exist individually until 1054 AD and didn't use violence until almost 100 years later. Contradiction.

I can go on but Scripture means little to you if it doesn't fit in to our man made ideology.

Offline mclees8

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Re: A question for Catholics about Love not the world
« Reply #70 on: May 31, 2011, 02:49:10 PM »
Perhaps.

However Nicodemus did not understand that Christ spoke in parables when not in the private company of His Apostles. I understand that.

I also understand Revelation 17:1-6 was a metaphoric vision similar to that of one of Christ's parables but Revelation 7:7-18 is the explanation of that metaphoric expression.


We don't need your modernist interpretation based on evaluation of things that occurred after the revelation was given.

Like Scripture teaches the Wh0re in question resides on seven hills. You say the Wh0re is an appendage of the city on seven hills. Contradiction.

The Wh0re was reigning on its 6th leader at the time the Prophecy was given. The Catholic Church was only on its 2nd leader. Pope Clement. Contradiction.

The Wh0re was drunk with the blood of the saints in 99 AD. The Roman Catholic Church didn't exist individually until 1054 AD and didn't use violence until almost 100 years later. Contradiction.

I can go on but Scripture means little to you if it doesn't fit in to our man made ideology.

No you don't understand. You think Jesus was talking in parables to Nicodemus. Being born again of the spirit is no parable. He was not speaking of just some commandment but he was speaking an absolute truth.

So why did Jesus use parables in the first place. because in seeing they do not see and hearing they do not hear. Do you not understand when Jesus said unless you are born again you cannot see the kingdom of heaven. He said it is like the wind that blows but you don't know where it comes from. Can you see the kingdom of heaven. can you go to it and touch it. No because it is only understood in the spirit.  You cannot see the kingdom but its there. you cannot see the kingdom also means you cannot understand it because of the carnal mind that only per sieves physical the nature of things.

You say scripture means little to me then how is it that I understand it more than you. Do you think i can come in here in this cat board with all you theological geniuses if scripture did not mean something to me. I have put my very life on it  for it is scripture that tells me who Jesus was and what he did for me. i did not sit in churches and bible studies for thirty years if it meant little to me

The explanation of the whore is full of riddles and symbolizem. Theologians don't have a pat answer for most of it. I don't claim to  to understand it but one thing I do know that the literal city of Rome is not the whore but the christian entity in it is, and has become a part of it  She is literally there integrated with Babylon which is a symbolic word for all that the world is. 

Offline LightHammer

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Re: A question for Catholics about Love not the world
« Reply #71 on: May 31, 2011, 03:36:49 PM »
The expression "born again" is metaphoric expression describing the very literal rebirth of the spirit and nature of the believer.

Nicodemus say the metaphoric expression as a describing a literal physical rebirth. Hence his carnal objection.

Offline mclees8

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Re: A question for Catholics about Love not the world
« Reply #72 on: May 31, 2011, 03:44:04 PM »
The expression "born again" is metaphoric expression describing the very literal rebirth of the spirit and nature of the believer.

Nicodemus say the metaphoric expression as a describing a literal physical rebirth. Hence his carnal objection.

All right Ill agree with that. 

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Re: A question for Catholics about Love not the world
« Reply #73 on: June 01, 2011, 01:24:38 PM »

But i believe the general consensus would be is the wh*re of Babylon is the Vatican.

No . What do you mean by the general consensus WOULD be ? Is it or isn't it . And please give some info on this general consensus . Back it up with some facts please .

Offline LightHammer

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Re: A question for Catholics about Love not the world
« Reply #74 on: June 01, 2011, 01:44:06 PM »

But i believe the general consensus would be is the wh*re of Babylon is the Vatican.

No . What do you mean by the general consensus WOULD be ? Is it or isn't it . And please give some info on this general consensus . Back it up with some facts please .

I guess it depends on what you mean by "general". You know protestants make up different definitions for words as they seek to make them fit their modernism. Seeing how the majority of all professed Christian bear the name Catholic I doubt that the general consensus is that the Wh0re of Babylon(which is still built on seven hills) is the Vatican.(which is still built on one.)