Antichrist, Babylon of Rev.13,17-18 explain most history & 9/11

[godislove85]

Friend, Revelation 1 makes clear that Revelation is about the end-times, especially the Great Tribulation or last 7 years before Jesus' Second Coming, even though many of its events have been foreshadowed in Jerusalem for instance.  Furthermore, I quote many Biblical passages above in support of my opinion and ground myself in the Bible constantly.

[sopranette]

So does everybody else here.  But I can't find "Britney Spears" anywhere in scripture. 

love,

Sopranette

[rezar]

Friend, Revelation 1 makes clear that Revelation is about the end-times, especially the Great Tribulation or last 7 years before Jesus' Second Coming, even though many of its events have been foreshadowed in Jerusalem for instance.  Furthermore, I quote many Biblical passages above in support of my opinion and ground myself in the Bible constantly.

That's all well & fine sister & I'm sure you're not alone. But we preterists for sure do not share what the orthodox (future coming of Christ) believe. In fact, their interpretation of the Bible astounded me when I began to have a pov on end-times & subsequently studied Eschatology 3 yrs. ago.

What does the very 1st verse of Revelation say?
Rev1:1,
 1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show His servants—things which must shortly take place.

First note the origin of the prophecy. "which God gave Him."  We can be sure that God knew the hour & the day- no nonsense about "Oh, but no one knows the hour or the day but God!"
Well, it's here in plain English that Jesus was sitting at the right hand of the Father since His resurrection, & was giving this prophecy via His angel to His servant John.

Next, look at the rest of the verse. "The things which must shortly take place!"

Can that be any more clear?

The appearing (epiphaneia) of the Lord mentioned by Paul in 1Tim 6:14-16 corresponds with his revelation (apokalupsis); the terms are used interchangeably. (2Thess.1:7; 1Pet 1:7)
The appearing & revelation of Christ also correspond with his coming. In the context of the events described in Revelation, all three terms refer to the same end-time events.

However, used in the larger context of Biblical eschatology & God's redemptive purpose, the scriptures speak of 2 appearances of Christ. The first to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself (Heb. 9:26,27); the second to vanquish his enemies, receive his bride, & enter upon his eternal kingdom & reign. (Mt. 16:27,28; 2Tim. 4:1; Heb. 9:28) It is the latter that is the subject of Revelation.
The vision given to John pertained to the things that were shortly come to pass. The 1st century AD church was taught to watch for the coming of the Lord; it was in earnest expectation of the Lord's imminent return.
Jesus told the apostles they would not have the opportunity to preach in all the cities of Israel before he had come (Mt 10:23), & that some would not taste death before he returned (Mt. 16:27,28 cf. John 21:22) Paul wrote that the time that remained was short (1Cor. 7:29)
James said, "the coming of the Lord draweth nigh." (Jm. 5:8)
Peter wrote, "the end of all things is at hand." (1Pet.4:7) The clear import of these & similar passages places the second coming of Christ in that generation (Mt. 24:30,34; cf. Mk 13:26,30; Luke 21:31)

This has proved a fertile source for liberals & skeptics who point to Christ's asserted failure to return when promised as proof the Bible is not inspired. Most expositors weakly respond that the apostles were either simply mistaken or that a "thousand years with the Lord is as a day," & that the imminence of Christ's return cannot, therefore, be considered according to human time-frame.

We cannot object too strongly. Saying that the apostles were mistaken all but denies the inspiration & inerrancy of the scriptures. If we cannot trust them in something as important as Christ's second coming, how are we to trust them at all?
Neither will it do to change the meaning of the language.

God is not so limited in his choice of words in communicating with man that he must make do with terms that inadequately express his mind. Human vocabulary is not so deficient that God must use short when he really means long, near when he means far, quickly instead of slowly, & at hand when he really means distant future. If we cannot take God's word at face value, trusting him to use words according to their accepted meaning, how can you have confidence in the word of God at all?
What happens to the promises of God if they are written in double-talk where everything means just the opposite of what it says?

Anyone who denies the apostles & the 1st Christians their honor is selfish imo- no other word describes what the liberals & immature Christians WANT. They WANT Christ to come for them in their generation- but they in no way WHO the Bible was written TO.
It was written FOR us, but not TO us.
So, it's selfish to make those claims, even if one has grown up with them & finds them acceptable- that is only bc tradition finds them ok, but tradition is blatantly wrong & wrong to perpetuate such toxic doctrines about Christ's second advent.

Ask yourself, does the Lord approve of selfishness?

Well, this is a start. There are many preterists books I can recommend once you look at that 1st verse & realize God made it clear- it was all to come to pass shortly. The bookends contain in Rev 1 & 22 the clear language that those things would shortly be done.

Have a blessed day.

[godislove85]

Yes, many of the things in Revelation did take place "shortly" (Rev. 1) after Jesus spoke them, for Jerusalem "the great city" (Rev. 11:8) which fell in 70 AD is a type of Babylon "the great city" of Rev. 17-18 (but MERELY a type).  However, I see a number of problems with a preterist understanding of Revelation:
-Babylon of Rev. 17-18 is also "the hindermost of nations" (Jer. 50:12), as the US appears to be; other nations arose after Jerusalem, so Rev. 17-18 could not have been completely fulfilled in the first century
-although, as I show at great length on my website, there have been many foreshadowings of the image of the beast created by the two-horned false prophet which causes the whole world to worship the first beast (for instance, the dual-antennae tv which causes everyone to worship tv stars and heroes like Batman & Superman who are types of the Antichrist), has everyone who didn't worship this image been "killed" as Revelation 13 requires??? 
-has everyone been required to take the mark of the beast in their forehead or hand or else be killed and not be able to buy or sell, as Rev. 13 requires???
-surely there has been greater tribulation in the 20th century with the two world wars & the holocaust than there was in the 1st century, wasn't there??? if so, THE Great Tribulation could not have been in the first century, or else you must call Jesus a liar (Matt. 24:21) Titus' & Hitler's destruction of the Jews were mere TYPES or FORESHADOWINGS of the tribulation to come

Therefore, I must still contend that the USA is THE Mystery Babylon.

God bless,
George

[Lee Freeman]

Friend, Revelation 1 makes clear that Revelation is about the end-times, especially the Great Tribulation or last 7 years before Jesus' Second Coming, even though many of its events have been foreshadowed in Jerusalem for instance.  Furthermore, I quote many Biblical passages above in support of my opinion and ground myself in the Bible constantly.

The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants what must soon take place. . . . Blessed is the one who reads the words of this prophecy, and blessed are those who hear it and take to heart what is written in it, because the time is near. . . .

John,
      To the seven churches in the province of Asia. . . (Revelation 1:1;3;4)

John says the things he was writing about "must soon take place" because "the time is near." Then he says that was writing to "the seven churches in the  province of Asia."

How could 9/11/2001 be "soon" or "near" to these Asian Christians of ca. the 60s AD?

Revelation, or Apokalypse to use its original NT Greek name is Jewish apocalyptic literature, which used figurative language (beasts, numbers, lambs, angels, etc.). It gets its name from the Greek for "to unveil' or "reveal," as in a bride being unveiled.

Revelation was originally written to those seven historic asian churches to give them hope and comfort during a time of Roman persecution. The message of Revelation isn't a secret code that smart people can figure out to predict the end-times. The message of Revelation was/is for Christians not to lose heart and give up under persecution, but to hang in there because ultimately God wins.

The common fundamentalist Protestant Dispensational Premillennialist interpretation of Revelation is a Johhny-come-lately interpretation. It isn't old at all, only dating back to the 1830s. For over 1800 years nobody in Christianity interpreted Revelation this way.

Besides, every end-times prophet to date-Darby, Miller, Smith, Russell, Lindsay, Van Impe, LaHaye, etc., had/have a 100% failure rate. That doesn't exactly inspire confidence that these men really understood Revelation.

IMHO too many Christians spend too much time looking for secret codes revealing the end-times and not enough time actually preaching the gospel and making a difference in the lives of people. Many of the Thessalonians had quit working and participating in society and were just sitting around waiting for Christ to return. Paul told them to stop being idle, that Christ would return in his own good time, but in the meantime, their job was to be salt and light to a lost world, which they couldn't be if they stopped living and working and just sat around waiting for the end.

Continual speculation about the end-times is a distraction the church and the world cannot afford. How much time has already been wasted/lost scaring people to death into wondering whether they're about to be raptured, or left behind? Real people are out there struggling with real problems in the real world, and drilling secret apocalyptic codes into them won't help them put food on the table, pay off their second mortgage, kick their addiction, or encounter the resurrected Christ who can help them with all these things.

Pax.

[Corbley]

 You're deceived by dispensationalism.


 Prove to me there is a country or anyone who shed the blood of the prophets & saints as Jesus said about Jerusalem.

 If not,  you're just trolls 

Prophecy is a gift of the Holy Spirit (1 Cor. 12) that is still in effect today.  I know several people who have this gift.  The U.S. & many types of Mystery Babylon (ex.Rome/Roman Empire, Istanbul/Ottoman Empire, Moscow/Soviet Union) have shed the blood of many such people.  Thus, the death of these people is due to the U.S. and all types of Mystery Babylon, including Jerusalem.  Furthermore, the U.S. is metaphorically responsible for "killing" people insofar as the books/movies/music etc. it has exported have turned people away from Christ and thereby led them into Hell.

I do not believe the gift of prophecy is has been in effect since Christ's Parousia. What is in effect is a word of knowledge or wisdom. Even these predictions by well meaning Christians have been failed prophecies. Can you provide a source that isn't a psychic (for they are mostly wrong also) but something that can be verified?

The U.S. is not responsible (it's not communist) & doesn't force anyone to engage in sinful behaviors. In fact our laws advocate moral behavior. People (individuals) have a choice- we are all born with free will. One can't blame Hollywood if they choose to watch or read x-rated or evil material. We are ultimately personally responsible for our own salvation through the choices that we make.

Mystery Babylon was exclusive to the Jews in Jesus' day. No other race or nation lost the voice of "the bridegroom & bride" but the apostate Israelites. This is confirmed by in the parable (one of many) of the Wedding Feast (Mt. 22).
I'll have to elaborate at another time on that.  But if you want to discuss politics or world affairs- do so-but don't drag fake prophecy into it. In fact everything you talk about is nowhere related to anything Biblical.
 

Rezar, I am still waiting to hear how explain the unfullfilled prophecies I spelled out many times.....You seem always to avoid,  responding to any of them....Just go straight to your conclusions.

[Tu Es Petrus]

Yes, Jerusalem, Vatican City in Rome, & Imperial Rome represent Mystery Babylon.....

You posted this same stuff in another Christian website. Why do Catholics always have to suffer this Fundie gobbldeygook?

You want antichrists? There's a billion screaming Muslims poised to make war on the west. Maybe you should look at them instead of kindly Pope Benedict who preaches Christ. Or haven't you ever considered the possibility that the antichrist's sidekick pastor will be an Imam instead of a pope? That makes a hell of a lot more sense to me than this Jack Chick style rubbish you're spouting.

[JHM]

I think the is a far better interpretation of "Babylon" or as it is called in Isaiah 47 "The Daughter of Babylon", that either "Rome", Jerusalem" or any other "City". "Babylon" was not just a city, it was an empire. This is an area I have studied fairly extensively.