Author Topic: Beautiful sermon at Antonin Scalia's funeral  (Read 2358 times)

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Offline Catholica

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Beautiful sermon at Antonin Scalia's funeral
« on: Sun Feb 21, 2016 - 08:12:56 »
This is what a sermon at a funeral should always be like.

http://www.c-span.org/video/?c4581531/paul-scalia-homily-antonin-scalia

Offline Ladonia

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Re: Beautiful sermon at Antonin Scalia's funeral
« Reply #1 on: Sun Feb 21, 2016 - 22:29:37 »
Yes, it was good. His words left no doubt about what Catholic doctrine really is.

Offline RB

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Re: Beautiful sermon at Antonin Scalia's funeral
« Reply #2 on: Mon Feb 22, 2016 - 07:57:20 »
The honourable Justice Antonin Scalia was indeed a great public servant, the likes we may never see again. He deserved the honour given to him and more than was given. It was sad that our president was not there, to show his appreciation and the nation which he is the head of, its deep gratitude. He was a man of faith.

Now that being said, I was deeply troubled by what his son said when he said these words: 
Quote
He was a practicing Catholic, "practicing" in the sense that he hadn't perfected it yet. Or rather, Christ was not yet perfected in him. And only those in whom Christ is brought to perfection can enter heaven. We are here, then, to lend our prayers to that perfecting, to that final work of God's grace, in freeing Dad from every encumbrance of sin.
This is sad, and brought chills down my most inner being, knowing that such understanding is far from the truth of the gospel of Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ has perfected every believer forever by his life and death and resurrection! There is not one thing that we can and must yet do, in order to secure that perfection.
Quote
Hebrews 10:14~"For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified."
My Catholic friends, there is NOT one thing you or I can do to secure Justice Scalia's eternal life in the world to come.... not one thing; or else, Jesus Christ's life and death was inadequate to put away our sins. Selah.
« Last Edit: Mon Feb 22, 2016 - 08:12:09 by RB »

Offline MeMyself

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Re: Beautiful sermon at Antonin Scalia's funeral
« Reply #3 on: Mon Feb 22, 2016 - 09:14:09 »
The honourable Justice Antonin Scalia was indeed a great public servant, the likes we may never see again. He deserved the honour given to him and more than was given. It was sad that our president was not there, to show his appreciation and the nation which he is the head of, its deep gratitude. He was a man of faith.

Now that being said, I was deeply troubled by what his son said when he said these words: 
Quote
He was a practicing Catholic, "practicing" in the sense that he hadn't perfected it yet. Or rather, Christ was not yet perfected in him. And only those in whom Christ is brought to perfection can enter heaven. We are here, then, to lend our prayers to that perfecting, to that final work of God's grace, in freeing Dad from every encumbrance of sin.
This is sad, and brought chills down my most inner being, knowing that such understanding is far from the truth of the gospel of Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ has perfected every believer forever by his life and death and resurrection! There is not one thing that we can and must yet do, in order to secure that perfection.
Quote
Hebrews 10:14~"For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified."
My Catholic friends, there is NOT one thing you or I can do to secure Justice Scalia's eternal life in the world to come.... not one thing; or else, Jesus Christ's life and death was inadequate to put away our sins. Selah.

 ::amen!::

Offline Catholica

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Re: Beautiful sermon at Antonin Scalia's funeral
« Reply #4 on: Mon Feb 22, 2016 - 09:56:35 »
The honourable Justice Antonin Scalia was indeed a great public servant, the likes we may never see again. He deserved the honour given to him and more than was given. It was sad that our president was not there, to show his appreciation and the nation which he is the head of, its deep gratitude. He was a man of faith.

Now that being said, I was deeply troubled by what his son said when he said these words: 
Quote
He was a practicing Catholic, "practicing" in the sense that he hadn't perfected it yet. Or rather, Christ was not yet perfected in him. And only those in whom Christ is brought to perfection can enter heaven. We are here, then, to lend our prayers to that perfecting, to that final work of God's grace, in freeing Dad from every encumbrance of sin.
This is sad, and brought chills down my most inner being, knowing that such understanding is far from the truth of the gospel of Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ has perfected every believer forever by his life and death and resurrection!

Every believer has not been perfected.  To say this is to deny reality in favor of legalism.  What is perfection in God's eyes?  Perfection is on display in the person of Jesus Christ.    So as we become more like Jesus, we become more perfect, and at the same time, more authentically human.

You see, Jesus Christ didn't die to save us legally.  He died also to "make all things new", that is, to restore humanity to the original state that God intended for us, before the fall. It is rare that anyone attain that perfection that Jesus Christ is working on in us during this life, but not unheard of.  And so Jesus finishes the job on us in purgatory, because "nothing unclean can enter heaven" Rev. 21:27.

The more we conform our will to the will of God, the less we sin, and we live the Gospel more perfectly, and are conformed into the image of God, which God intended for us from the beginning, and which He is working right now to restore us to.

In truth, it is your understanding which is far from the truth of the gospel of Jesus Christ, but that is not entirely your fault, as you have been taught an incomplete gospel, a terrible lie that has it's roots in the Protestant revolt.

Quote
There is not one thing that we can and must yet do, in order to secure that perfection.
Quote
Hebrews 10:14~"For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified."
My Catholic friends, there is NOT one thing you or I can do to secure Justice Scalia's eternal life in the world to come.... not one thing; or else, Jesus Christ's life and death was inadequate to put away our sins. Selah.

Justice Scalia's eternal life is secured, God willing.  However he was still in need of perfecting, a fact that was acknowledged in life by the now deceased.

Quote
12 But when this priest had offered for all time one sacrifice for sins, he sat down at the right hand of God, 13 and since that time he waits for his enemies to be made his footstool. 14 For by one sacrifice he has made perfect forever those who are being made holy.

Jesus Christ's sacrifice took place nearly 2000 years ago, and yet there are lots of people who are born very imperfect, who then enter the kingdom.  They are not immediately made perfect, but are rather "being made holy" and are being made so by the power of that one time sacrifice made present to them in the holy sacrifice of the mass, his own body which imbues them with life insofar as they are able to receive it.   We are being sanctified, and once our holiness is complete we remain perfect forever, and the way that happens is by the power of Jesus Christ crucified.

Phillipians 1
Quote
1 Paul and Timothy, the servants of Jesus Christ; to all the saints in Christ Jesus, who are at Philippi, with the bishops and deacons.

2 Grace be unto you, and peace from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.

3 I give thanks to my God in every remembrance of you,

4 Always in all my prayers making supplication for you all, with joy;

5 For your communication in the gospel of Christ from the first day until now.

6 Being confident of this very thing, that he, who hath begun a good work in you, will perfect it unto the day of Christ Jesus.
« Last Edit: Mon Feb 22, 2016 - 10:57:22 by Catholica »

Offline mclees8

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Re: Beautiful sermon at Antonin Scalia's funeral
« Reply #5 on: Mon Feb 22, 2016 - 11:09:08 »
Let me ask did the Thief on the cross serve in purgatory for his final cleaning or was it As Christ Said this day you will be with me in paradise?

Offline Catholica

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Re: Beautiful sermon at Antonin Scalia's funeral
« Reply #6 on: Mon Feb 22, 2016 - 11:19:34 »
Let me ask did the Thief on the cross serve in purgatory for his final cleaning or was it As Christ Said this day you will be with me in paradise?

paradise is not the same as heaven

Also Jesus didn't go to heaven that day, but rather "into the belly of the earth"

The thief didn't go straight to heaven, heaven wasn't opened until three days after.

Offline mclees8

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Re: Beautiful sermon at Antonin Scalia's funeral
« Reply #7 on: Mon Feb 22, 2016 - 12:17:40 »
Let me ask did the Thief on the cross serve in purgatory for his final cleaning or was it As Christ Said this day you will be with me in paradise?

paradise is not the same as heaven

Also Jesus didn't go to heaven that day, but rather "into the belly of the earth"

The thief didn't go straight to heaven, heaven wasn't opened until three days after.

Who is defining that for you.  Strongs Concordance  greek meaning 3857 says a future place of happiness. 
Also Reve.2:7     7 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.

Still say paradise is not heaven? was the thiefs purgatory only three days.  He was a thief in need of a savior who did not condemn him but fully forgave him as imperfect as he was right then and there. no purgatory.
« Last Edit: Mon Feb 22, 2016 - 12:25:18 by mclees8 »

Offline Catholica

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Re: Beautiful sermon at Antonin Scalia's funeral
« Reply #8 on: Mon Feb 22, 2016 - 14:23:42 »
Let me ask did the Thief on the cross serve in purgatory for his final cleaning or was it As Christ Said this day you will be with me in paradise?

paradise is not the same as heaven

Also Jesus didn't go to heaven that day, but rather "into the belly of the earth"

The thief didn't go straight to heaven, heaven wasn't opened until three days after.

Who is defining that for you.  Strongs Concordance  greek meaning 3857 says a future place of happiness. 
Also Reve.2:7     7 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.

Still say paradise is not heaven? was the thiefs purgatory only three days.  He was a thief in need of a savior who did not condemn him but fully forgave him as imperfect as he was right then and there. no purgatory.

The use of paradise in scripture is not uniform.  For example, in Genesis 2:8 we also hear the garden of Eden called "paradise".  Do you think that the garden of Eden was heaven?  Were Adam and Eve kicked out of heaven (paradise)?  Was the first sin committed in heaven?

You haven't dealt with the fact that Jesus didn't go to paradise on the day that he died.  He went down into the earth.

Finally, there is no punctuation in the original Greek manuscripts, thus Jesus words could alternately be formulated:

"I say to you this day, you will be with me in paradise."  Which seems to make more sense, since Jesus wasn't in heaven that day, nor was heaven opened that day.  If paradise does mean heaven here (and that is not a certainty) it would mean it is an eventual reality, not one that would happen in exactly 3 days.


Offline mclees8

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Re: Beautiful sermon at Antonin Scalia's funeral
« Reply #9 on: Mon Feb 22, 2016 - 16:52:07 »
Let me ask did the Thief on the cross serve in purgatory for his final cleaning or was it As Christ Said this day you will be with me in paradise?

paradise is not the same as heaven

Also Jesus didn't go to heaven that day, but rather "into the belly of the earth"

The thief didn't go straight to heaven, heaven wasn't opened until three days after.

Who is defining that for you.  Strongs Concordance  greek meaning 3857 says a future place of happiness. 
Also Reve.2:7     7 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.

Still say paradise is not heaven? was the thiefs purgatory only three days.  He was a thief in need of a savior who did not condemn him but fully forgave him as imperfect as he was right then and there. no purgatory.

The use of paradise in scripture is not uniform.  For example, in Genesis 2:8 we also hear the garden of Eden called "paradise".  Do you think that the garden of Eden was heaven?  Were Adam and Eve kicked out of heaven (paradise)?  Was the first sin committed in heaven?

You haven't dealt with the fact that Jesus didn't go to paradise on the day that he died.  He went down into the earth.

Finally, there is no punctuation in the original Greek manuscripts, thus Jesus words could alternately be formulated:

"I say to you this day, you will be with me in paradise."  Which seems to make more sense, since Jesus wasn't in heaven that day, nor was heaven opened that day.  If paradise does mean heaven here (and that is not a certainty) it would mean it is an eventual reality, not one that would happen in exactly 3 days.

Not true Cath,  Here is Gen 2:8  And the LORD God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed.
 
Next  Luke 23: 43   Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.
 No punctuation after to day 

also Paul said in 2nd Cor 12:4    How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawfulb for a man to utter.
 
There are only 3 times paradise is used in all the New Testament none in the Old

Paul was caught up to paradise which is heavenly not any earthly place

There is no purgatory but false made up theology and has fooled millions of Catholics. 



« Last Edit: Mon Feb 22, 2016 - 17:02:22 by mclees8 »

Offline Catholica

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Re: Beautiful sermon at Antonin Scalia's funeral
« Reply #10 on: Mon Feb 22, 2016 - 20:37:26 »
Let me ask did the Thief on the cross serve in purgatory for his final cleaning or was it As Christ Said this day you will be with me in paradise?

paradise is not the same as heaven

Also Jesus didn't go to heaven that day, but rather "into the belly of the earth"

The thief didn't go straight to heaven, heaven wasn't opened until three days after.

Who is defining that for you.  Strongs Concordance  greek meaning 3857 says a future place of happiness. 
Also Reve.2:7     7 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.

Still say paradise is not heaven? was the thiefs purgatory only three days.  He was a thief in need of a savior who did not condemn him but fully forgave him as imperfect as he was right then and there. no purgatory.

The use of paradise in scripture is not uniform.  For example, in Genesis 2:8 we also hear the garden of Eden called "paradise".  Do you think that the garden of Eden was heaven?  Were Adam and Eve kicked out of heaven (paradise)?  Was the first sin committed in heaven?

You haven't dealt with the fact that Jesus didn't go to paradise on the day that he died.  He went down into the earth.

Finally, there is no punctuation in the original Greek manuscripts, thus Jesus words could alternately be formulated:

"I say to you this day, you will be with me in paradise."  Which seems to make more sense, since Jesus wasn't in heaven that day, nor was heaven opened that day.  If paradise does mean heaven here (and that is not a certainty) it would mean it is an eventual reality, not one that would happen in exactly 3 days.

Not true Cath,  Here is Gen 2:8  And the LORD God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed.
 
Next  Luke 23: 43   Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.
 No punctuation after to day 

also Paul said in 2nd Cor 12:4    How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawfulb for a man to utter.
 
There are only 3 times paradise is used in all the New Testament none in the Old

Paul was caught up to paradise which is heavenly not any earthly place

There is no purgatory but false made up theology and has fooled millions of Catholics.

Genesis 2:8
2:8  καὶ ἐφύτευσεν κύριος ὁ θεὸς παράδεισον ἐν Εδεμ κατὰ ἀνατολὰς καὶ ἔθετο ἐκεῖ τὸν ἄνθρωπον ὃν ἔπλασεν

παράδεισον = paradeison

It's the same word that is used in 2 Cor. 12:4 that you are referring to.

So you have the following facts that you haven't addressed.

1. Your interpretation of the thief on the cross can't be correct because Jesus wasn't in heaven the day he died.

2. The word for paradise in the Greek doesn't necessarily mean heaven.

3. Even if the thief didn't go to purgatory, it wouldn't prove that purgatory doesn't exist.

4. The Jews in Jesus time prayed for the dead for them to be purified. They still do to this day. And Jesus never condemned that.

5. It makes no sense whatsoever to say that all Christians become perfect when they accept Christ. It takes a severe denial of reality to say so. Almost nothing in the world could be more obvious.

6. Jesus works to make us perfect over time. And Jesus will bring his work to completion. And Christians die in imperfect states. And nothing unclean will enter heaven. nothing. Simple reason would indicate that Jesus works after we die to finish perfecting those who are justified.

7. There is plenty of scripture that also indicates the existence of purgatory.


Offline Ladonia

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Re: Beautiful sermon at Antonin Scalia's funeral
« Reply #11 on: Mon Feb 22, 2016 - 22:46:00 »
The honourable Justice Antonin Scalia was indeed a great public servant, the likes we may never see again. He deserved the honour given to him and more than was given. It was sad that our president was not there, to show his appreciation and the nation which he is the head of, its deep gratitude. He was a man of faith.

Now that being said, I was deeply troubled by what his son said when he said these words: 
Quote
He was a practicing Catholic, "practicing" in the sense that he hadn't perfected it yet. Or rather, Christ was not yet perfected in him. And only those in whom Christ is brought to perfection can enter heaven. We are here, then, to lend our prayers to that perfecting, to that final work of God's grace, in freeing Dad from every encumbrance of sin.
This is sad, and brought chills down my most inner being, knowing that such understanding is far from the truth of the gospel of Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ has perfected every believer forever by his life and death and resurrection! There is not one thing that we can and must yet do, in order to secure that perfection.
Quote
Hebrews 10:14~"For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified."
My Catholic friends, there is NOT one thing you or I can do to secure Justice Scalia's eternal life in the world to come.... not one thing; or else, Jesus Christ's life and death was inadequate to put away our sins. Selah.

 ::amen!::

Yes, we all know that like your friend who posted previously, you also reject orthodox Christian doctrine on this issue. Good for you.

Offline Ladonia

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Re: Beautiful sermon at Antonin Scalia's funeral
« Reply #12 on: Mon Feb 22, 2016 - 22:53:20 »
Let me ask did the Thief on the cross serve in purgatory for his final cleaning or was it As Christ Said this day you will be with me in paradise?

paradise is not the same as heaven

Also Jesus didn't go to heaven that day, but rather "into the belly of the earth"

The thief didn't go straight to heaven, heaven wasn't opened until three days after.

Who is defining that for you.  Strongs Concordance  greek meaning 3857 says a future place of happiness. 
Also Reve.2:7     7 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.

Still say paradise is not heaven? was the thiefs purgatory only three days.  He was a thief in need of a savior who did not condemn him but fully forgave him as imperfect as he was right then and there. no purgatory.

The use of paradise in scripture is not uniform.  For example, in Genesis 2:8 we also hear the garden of Eden called "paradise".  Do you think that the garden of Eden was heaven?  Were Adam and Eve kicked out of heaven (paradise)?  Was the first sin committed in heaven?

You haven't dealt with the fact that Jesus didn't go to paradise on the day that he died.  He went down into the earth.

Finally, there is no punctuation in the original Greek manuscripts, thus Jesus words could alternately be formulated:

"I say to you this day, you will be with me in paradise."  Which seems to make more sense, since Jesus wasn't in heaven that day, nor was heaven opened that day.  If paradise does mean heaven here (and that is not a certainty) it would mean it is an eventual reality, not one that would happen in exactly 3 days.

Not true Cath,  Here is Gen 2:8  And the LORD God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed.
 
Next  Luke 23: 43   Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.
 No punctuation after to day 

also Paul said in 2nd Cor 12:4    How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawfulb for a man to utter.
 
There are only 3 times paradise is used in all the New Testament none in the Old

Paul was caught up to paradise which is heavenly not any earthly place

There is no purgatory but false made up theology and has fooled millions of Catholics.

Genesis 2:8
2:8  καὶ ἐφύτευσεν κύριος ὁ θεὸς παράδεισον ἐν Εδεμ κατὰ ἀνατολὰς καὶ ἔθετο ἐκεῖ τὸν ἄνθρωπον ὃν ἔπλασεν

παράδεισον = paradeison

It's the same word that is used in 2 Cor. 12:4 that you are referring to.

So you have the following facts that you haven't addressed.

1. Your interpretation of the thief on the cross can't be correct because Jesus wasn't in heaven the day he died.

2. The word for paradise in the Greek doesn't necessarily mean heaven.

3. Even if the thief didn't go to purgatory, it wouldn't prove that purgatory doesn't exist.

4. The Jews in Jesus time prayed for the dead for them to be purified. They still do to this day. And Jesus never condemned that.

5. It makes no sense whatsoever to say that all Christians become perfect when they accept Christ. It takes a severe denial of reality to say so. Almost nothing in the world could be more obvious.

6. Jesus works to make us perfect over time. And Jesus will bring his work to completion. And Christians die in imperfect states. And nothing unclean will enter heaven. nothing. Simple reason would indicate that Jesus works after we die to finish perfecting those who are justified.

7. There is plenty of scripture that also indicates the existence of purgatory.

Amen! Just becoming a Christian does not make one perfect, it does however give us the highest level to strive for.

Offline kensington

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Re: Beautiful sermon at Antonin Scalia's funeral
« Reply #13 on: Tue Feb 23, 2016 - 02:54:23 »
Paul said, "to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord"

The Justice is either going to Heaven or Hell.... it's decided.  There is no more purifying or repenting or making amends with God now.

So sad that his own son does not know enough about the Word of God to declare his dad is with the Lord but implied he is in purgatory.  A made up place of judgment and punishment. 

I could not do that to someone I loved.  I would have declared He was with God and trust God that he is.  He either is or he never will be.  There is no in between.  Purgatory is a man's idea of in between. 


Offline skeeter

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Re: Beautiful sermon at Antonin Scalia's funeral
« Reply #14 on: Tue Feb 23, 2016 - 03:07:08 »
Not true Cath,  Here is Gen 2:8  And the LORD God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed.
 
Next  Luke 23: 43   Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.
 No punctuation after to day 

also Paul said in 2nd Cor 12:4    How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawfulb for a man to utter.
 
There are only 3 times paradise is used in all the New Testament none in the Old

Paul was caught up to paradise which is heavenly not any earthly place

There is no purgatory but false made up theology and has fooled millions of Catholics.

Genesis 2:8
2:8  καὶ ἐφύτευσεν κύριος ὁ θεὸς παράδεισον ἐν Εδεμ κατὰ ἀνατολὰς καὶ ἔθετο ἐκεῖ τὸν ἄνθρωπον ὃν ἔπλασεν

παράδεισον = paradeison

It's the same word that is used in 2 Cor. 12:4 that you are referring to.

So you have the following facts that you haven't addressed.

1. Your interpretation of the thief on the cross can't be correct because Jesus wasn't in heaven the day he died.

2. The word for paradise in the Greek doesn't necessarily mean heaven.

3. Even if the thief didn't go to purgatory, it wouldn't prove that purgatory doesn't exist.

4. The Jews in Jesus time prayed for the dead for them to be purified. They still do to this day. And Jesus never condemned that.

5. It makes no sense whatsoever to say that all Christians become perfect when they accept Christ. It takes a severe denial of reality to say so. Almost nothing in the world could be more obvious.

6. Jesus works to make us perfect over time. And Jesus will bring his work to completion. And Christians die in imperfect states. And nothing unclean will enter heaven. nothing. Simple reason would indicate that Jesus works after we die to finish perfecting those who are justified.

7. There is plenty of scripture that also indicates the existence of purgatory.

Amen! Just becoming a Christian does not make one perfect, it does however give us the highest level to strive for.
look up how that word is used in each verse.
Thayer's lexicon usually gives it for most actual verses.

Offline RB

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Re: Beautiful sermon at Antonin Scalia's funeral
« Reply #15 on: Tue Feb 23, 2016 - 04:06:28 »
Yes, we all know that like your friend who posted previously, you also reject orthodox Christian doctrine on this issue. Good for you.
I am friend of any and all that love Jesus Christ, even though we may not see eye to eye, and with most, in the twenty first century, you will not. Catholica said:
Quote
In truth, it is your understanding which is far from the truth of the gospel of Jesus Christ, but that is not entirely your fault, as you have been taught an incomplete gospel, a terrible lie that has it's roots in the Protestant revolt.
Well you gave me a title to work with, in preparing a thread in the near future: "Revolt; or Reformation; or Conversion back to the truth?" No one revoted by leaving the RCC/EOC, and no one truly reformed any truths; but many experienced and still are...... "conversion" of the truth. Conversion being a correction of one's doctrine, or practical walk, as the case of Peter that he experienced~and in truth, every child of God has from his beginning and will until his life's journey is completed according to the will of God. I want to come back later today, the Lord willing and address the lie that Paradise once was in the center of the earth! Nothing could be further from the truth. The thief was with God (Jesus and God are ONE in their Divine essence of being the Eternal Spirit that inhabited eternity...the I am That I am! Catholicism denies this blessed truth!) the very day he died, even though Jesus the Son of God was in the grave for three nights and three days~ YET once resurrected from the dead, there was a period of time that he had not yet went unto the Father as he told Mary, and THAT period is not revealed and really is not important...it affects not one doctrine.  I need time to think how I want to answer your post, I just got into my office/study. But, I will leave you with a couple of verses proving that we NOW have a NEW MAN that is created after the very image of our Saviour, in holiness; righteousness; with knowledge and understanding, the very image that Adam lost when he believed the serpent's lie.
Quote
Ephesians 4:24~"And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness."
No need to pray for more after death!  Again Paul said:
Quote
Colossians 3:10~"And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:"
This new man cannot sin according to John:
Quote
1st John 3:9~"Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God."
Justice's Scalia's old man died because it was corrupt.... if indeed he was a child of God, then his new man went right into the very presence of God Almighty, waiting for the resurrection of his body that shall be united with his spirit that was born of God, (if indeed it was) which God shall bring with him in that glorious resurrection day, the hope of all saints. 
« Last Edit: Tue Feb 23, 2016 - 04:20:19 by RB »

Offline Ladonia

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Re: Beautiful sermon at Antonin Scalia's funeral
« Reply #16 on: Tue Feb 23, 2016 - 08:42:36 »
Yes, we all know that like your friend who posted previously, you also reject orthodox Christian doctrine on this issue. Good for you.
I am friend of any and all that love Jesus Christ, even though we may not see eye to eye, and with most, in the twenty first century, you will not. Catholica said:
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In truth, it is your understanding which is far from the truth of the gospel of Jesus Christ, but that is not entirely your fault, as you have been taught an incomplete gospel, a terrible lie that has it's roots in the Protestant revolt.
Well you gave me a title to work with, in preparing a thread in the near future: "Revolt; or Reformation; or Conversion back to the truth?" No one revoted by leaving the RCC/EOC, and no one truly reformed any truths; but many experienced and still are...... "conversion" of the truth. Conversion being a correction of one's doctrine, or practical walk, as the case of Peter that he experienced~and in truth, every child of God has from his beginning and will until his life's journey is completed according to the will of God. I want to come back later today, the Lord willing and address the lie that Paradise once was in the center of the earth! Nothing could be further from the truth. The thief was with God (Jesus and God are ONE in their Divine essence of being the Eternal Spirit that inhabited eternity...the I am That I am! Catholicism denies this blessed truth!) the very day he died, even though Jesus the Son of God was in the grave for three nights and three days~ YET once resurrected from the dead, there was a period of time that he had not yet went unto the Father as he told Mary, and THAT period is not revealed and really is not important...it affects not one doctrine.  I need time to think how I want to answer your post, I just got into my office/study. But, I will leave you with a couple of verses proving that we NOW have a NEW MAN that is created after the very image of our Saviour, in holiness; righteousness; with knowledge and understanding, the very image that Adam lost when he believed the serpent's lie.
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Ephesians 4:24~"And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness."
No need to pray for more after death!  Again Paul said:
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Colossians 3:10~"And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:"
This new man cannot sin according to John:
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1st John 3:9~"Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God."
Justice's Scalia's old man died because it was corrupt.... if indeed he was a child of God, then his new man went right into the very presence of God Almighty, waiting for the resurrection of his body that shall be united with his spirit that was born of God, (if indeed it was) which God shall bring with him in that glorious resurrection day, the hope of all saint

You never sin, even after becoming a "new man"? Wow, how great thou art indeed! I wish I could say that, but every so often sin happens. When I look at a pretty woman and lustful thoughts enter my head - that's  sin. When I am short with my wife and veer from acting as I should, that's also a sin.  And there are others that also enter in to our daily lives -  either consciously and unconsciously.  The great thing about orthodox Christianity is there is a remedy for that, a sacrament called confession, or reconciliation if you will. But don't take my word about that as it's right there in the Bible, even the one you read.
« Last Edit: Tue Feb 23, 2016 - 08:47:58 by Ladonia »

Offline mclees8

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Re: Beautiful sermon at Antonin Scalia's funeral
« Reply #17 on: Tue Feb 23, 2016 - 08:52:38 »
Genesis 2:8
2:8  καὶ ἐφύτευσεν κύριος ὁ θεὸς παράδεισον ἐν Εδεμ κατὰ ἀνατολὰς καὶ ἔθετο ἐκεῖ τὸν ἄνθρωπον ὃν ἔπλασεν

παράδεισον = paradeison

>Interpret English please

It's the same word that is used in 2 Cor. 12:4 that you are referring to.

> and ?

So you have the following facts that you haven't addressed.

1. Your interpretation of the thief on the cross can't be correct because Jesus wasn't in heaven the day he died.

>I don; think Jesus makes mistakes.  You wisdom is finite His infinite, nothing is impossible for God   Is his time our time. and our seeing His seeing?

2. The word for paradise in the Greek doesn't necessarily mean heaven.


> apparently in the scriptures use it does. None refer to an earthly place. I have seen many earthly places so beautiful you would think it was paradise, but that is only a saying and not reality

3. Even if the thief didn't go to purgatory, it wouldn't prove that purgatory doesn't exist.
Who then decides?

> And you have not proven it does.  Are the believers divided? 

4. The Jews in Jesus time prayed for the dead for them to be purified. They still do to this day. And Jesus never condemned that.

>They then do this in ignorance.

5. It makes no sense whatsoever to say that all Christians become perfect when they accept Christ. It takes a severe denial of reality to say so. Almost nothing in the world could be more obvious.

>That is true. But if the thief did not have to do penance or purgatory being not perfect or purified how did he get accepted to heaven. Who is the only judge of who is purified or not? Who is the one who is able to cleans us and save us to the uttermost, and not in a locked box of laws and rules but love and compassion?

6. Jesus works to make us perfect over time. And Jesus will bring his work to completion. And Christians die in imperfect states. And nothing unclean will enter heaven. nothing. Simple reason would indicate that Jesus works after we die to finish perfecting those who are justified.

>This is also true but we are not judged by that but judged of heart. We are both sanctified from the day we received and perfecting us as we grow in Christ. You legalism is so blinding, and nauseating. 

7. There is plenty of scripture that also indicates the existence of purgatory.

>Please show us.
« Last Edit: Wed Feb 24, 2016 - 17:46:48 by mclees8 »

Offline RB

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Re: Beautiful sermon at Antonin Scalia's funeral
« Reply #18 on: Tue Feb 23, 2016 - 09:48:36 »
You never sin, even after becoming a "new man"? Wow, how great thou art indeed! I wish I could say that, but every so often sin happens.
You did not follow what I was saying. Of course we sin, constantly ~even in our most religious devotions, sin is presence! It is not that we sin every so often , but every breath we take, sin is presence with us. We have a old man called Adam, and a new man created after Jesus Christ! THAT MAN is free from sin and it is impossible for him to sin! Short on time, maybe more later, if I see that it would be profitable.
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Wow, how great thou art indeed!
Oh no...HOW GREAT IS JESUS CHRIST, after whose image the new man is created after! Selah!

Offline Ladonia

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Re: Beautiful sermon at Antonin Scalia's funeral
« Reply #19 on: Tue Feb 23, 2016 - 10:23:14 »
You never sin, even after becoming a "new man"? Wow, how great thou art indeed! I wish I could say that, but every so often sin happens.
You did not follow what I was saying. Of course we sin, constantly ~even in our most religious devotions, sin is presence! It is not that we sin every so often , but every breath we take, sin is presence with us. We have a old man called Adam, and a new man created after Jesus Christ! THAT MAN is free from sin and it is impossible for him to sin! Short on time, maybe more later, if I see that it would be profitable.
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Wow, how great thou art indeed!
Oh no...HOW GREAT IS JESUS CHRIST, after whose image the new man is created after! Selah!

You continue on with saying "it is impossible to sin". No! The plain fact is that  for a believer in Christ  it still is possible to sin. Good grief!

Offline RB

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Re: Beautiful sermon at Antonin Scalia's funeral
« Reply #20 on: Tue Feb 23, 2016 - 13:41:56 »
You continue on with saying "it is impossible to sin". No! The plain fact is that  for a believer in Christ  it still is possible to sin. Good grief!
How fitting is this scripture for you:
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Ephesians 4:18~"Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart:"
Sir, do you understand the difference between the old man from Adam, and the new man in Jesus Christ? If not, then learn it, then maybe we can discuss the scriptures rationally, with some understanding....but, maybe you are incapable of doing so. 
« Last Edit: Tue Feb 23, 2016 - 13:44:31 by RB »

Offline kensington

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Re: Beautiful sermon at Antonin Scalia's funeral
« Reply #21 on: Tue Feb 23, 2016 - 14:40:36 »
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You never sin, even after becoming a "new man"? Wow, how great thou art indeed! I wish I could say that, but every so often sin happens. When I look at a pretty woman and lustful thoughts enter my head - that's  sin. When I am short with my wife and veer from acting as I should, that's also a sin.  And there are others that also enter in to our daily lives -  either consciously and unconsciously.  The great thing about orthodox Christianity is there is a remedy for that, a sacrament called confession, or reconciliation if you will. But don't take my word about that as it's right there in the Bible, even the one you read.

But by what authority can anyone say that a devout man did not repent of any sins such as these before going to bed on the day he died?  For those left living to assume he is in some purgatory state/place, is arrogance.  Taking the place of God, sitting in judgment of a man's soul.  You ought not do that.

God alone would decide if someone went there, (if it existed) and no man should declare it from a pulpit.  You sin when you do that.  You sin to try to bind any believer to something you cannot know.  He was said to be a devout believer...  at that, you should be giving him the benefit of the doubt and not declaring him to be somewhere for some time... that no one knows nor can they know.

It's just an appalling practices rooted in a lack of faith.  Not all practices of religion show true faith.  Many show fear and lack of faith and a deep need to color what is, into something else that make men feel better.  Shameful. 

Offline kensington

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Re: Beautiful sermon at Antonin Scalia's funeral
« Reply #22 on: Tue Feb 23, 2016 - 15:21:36 »
Yes, it was good. His words left no doubt about what Catholic doctrine really is.

I would have thought that a funeral would be about leaving no doubt as to who the man was, and leaving no doubt as to who he loved, who he served, what he believed... you know "about him"..

I'm surprised that the man's funeral is supposed to be about the Catholic Doctrine. 

I pray my funeral is not about Protestant doctrine, but about how much I loved God, served Him, how much I loved my family and served them. How much I loved life and served others. 


Offline skeeter

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Re: Beautiful sermon at Antonin Scalia's funeral
« Reply #23 on: Wed Feb 24, 2016 - 01:12:40 »
Yes, it was good. His words left no doubt about what Catholic doctrine really is.

I would have thought that a funeral would be about leaving no doubt as to who the man was, and leaving no doubt as to who he loved, who he served, what he believed... you know "about him"..

I'm surprised that the man's funeral is supposed to be about the Catholic Doctrine. 

I pray my funeral is not about Protestant doctrine, but about how much I loved God, served Him, how much I loved my family and served them. How much I loved life and served others.
how sad that is!  it's always about them! - not about Jesus.

I agree Kensington, that's something to make note of in our 'final' papers in case something happens to us.  I want most anything said when I die to be about knowing Jesus.

 

     
anything