Bible alone?

[Jimmy]

I know chapter 16 of the gospel of Matthew.  

That's great. How about you do an exegesis on this and we compare notes.

No need for an exegesis at all.  The RCC simply doesn't show up there.

[normfromga]

TradCath-

Thanks for supporting what I was saying:  mainstream denominations do not produce flawless leaders, or leadership.

BTW, while abortion is still illegal in Ireland, it is allowed in Spain, Poland, and  Portugal for the ever-popular, " mental wellbeing of the mother."  Also, France and Italy, not quite classifiable as "... Protestant or Jewish Run Protestant nations..."  allow abortion on demand.

Otherwise, you make a strong case that the Christianity provided the driving force that created and sustained what we would call "Western Civilization."  I am not so sure if you could support the idea that the Roman Catholic Church continued to do this alone after the advent of the Reformation Movement. 

[banished]

I know chapter 16 of the gospel of Matthew.  

That's great. How about you do an exegesis on this and we compare notes.

No need for an exegesis at all.  The RCC simply doesn't show up there.

Hello Jimmy,

The bottom line:  Christ spoke Aramaic and nicknamed Simon "Kepha".  Christ did not speak Greek.  Peter IS "the rock", the earthly head of Christ's Church as Christ Himself states in Matthew 16.

I am thinking about programming a Hot Key on my computer with that text so I wont have to keep typing it.     Okay, now I got it.


Christ spoke Aramaic and nicknamed Simon "Kepha".  Christ did not speak Greek.

Christ spoke Aramaic and nicknamed Simon "Kepha".  Christ did not speak Greek.

Christ spoke Aramaic and nicknamed Simon "Kepha".  Christ did not speak Greek.

Christ spoke Aramaic and nicknamed Simon "Kepha".  Christ did not speak Greek.

Christ spoke Aramaic and nicknamed Simon "Kepha".  Christ did not speak Greek.

[Tantor]

Peter IS "the rock", the earthly head of Christ's Church as Christ Himself states in Matthew 16.

A first year college english freshman or first year seminary student that is studying greek will totally disagree with the way the Catholic Church interprets that single verse to support its apostolic line.

The 'this', refers to the previous verse... Peters confession that indeed Jesus was the Christ... so Jesus was founding his Church on our like confessions.

In spite of Peter's betrayal.. Jesus still blessed him with being the first to confess him.

[TradCath]

BTW, while abortion is still illegal in Ireland, it is allowed in Spain, Poland, and  Portugal for the ever-popular, " mental wellbeing of the mother."  

Also, France and Italy, not quite classifiable as "... Protestant or Jewish Run Protestant nations..."   allow abortion on demand.

Recent Abortion Laws in those nations to protect the mother, have been introduced.
It hasnt been the case traditionally, decades after Roe V Wade.  
The Church still works to protect the unborn there.

France and Italy are part of the EU, and hence,  are run By Jews and Jewish interests.  
Run by Proxy if not outright, as is the USA via the FED and AIPAC Israel Lobby

[TradCath]

A first year college english freshman or first year seminary student that is studying greek will totally disagree with the way the Catholic Church interprets that single verse to support its apostolic line.

Its irrelevant.
Christ Spoke Aramiac and Hebrew.  Not Greek.
Kepha is ROCK.

The Gospels were recorded in Aramaic. And some texts in Hebrew.

[Tantor]

A first year college english freshman or first year seminary student that is studying greek will totally disagree with the way the Catholic Church interprets that single verse to support its apostolic line.

Its irrelevant.
Christ Spoke Aramiac and Hebrew.  Not Greek.
Kepha is ROCK.

The Gospels were recorded in Aramaic. And some texts in Hebrew.

Can you provide an aramaic proof text for us to verify what you are saying?

The Rock is confession..

Besides, Peter could never have been in Rome.. anyhow.. so your church isn't built on Peter.

[banished]

TradCath-

Otherwise, you make a strong case that the Christianity provided the driving force that created and sustained what we would call "Western Civilization."  I am not so sure if you could support the idea that the Roman Catholic Church continued to do this alone after the advent of the Reformation Movement. 

normfromga,

In one of these threads you complained about the Kennedy Funeral.  Well, regardless of how we approach it, whether it be secular or from one of the great religions of the World, that Kennedy funeral was all the grandeur of Western Civilization. It included everything from the phony political leaders, the phony church leaders, the payola to the Pope, the Latin, and for us peon's, Susan Graham sang "Ave Maria".  I find it amazing that the Protestant reformation didn't change a thing.  Answer me this: Where do the Protestants fit into Western Civilization?

[TradCath]

'Jesus' spoke Aramaic, the common language of Galilee during his lifetime.
Aramaic was an ancient Semitic language related to Hebrew much as French is related to Spanish or as Cantonese is related to Mandarin.
(Thanks to Prof. Zev bar-Lev for help with these analogies.)

Though these gospels were written originally in Greek, at several points Jesus' words are given in Aramaic, for example: "Talitha orgasm" (Mark 5:41, "Little girl, get up!"); "Abba" (Mark 14:36. "Father"); "Eloi, Eloi, lema sabachtani?" (Mark 15:34, "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?"). In these cases the actual Aramaic words of Jesus were remembered and passed on even by Greek-speaking Christians.

Though Judeanss had once spoken Hebrew as their primary language, this changed when Israel was overthrown, first by the Assyrians in the eight-century B.C. and then by the Babylonians in the sixth-century B.C.
By the time of Jesus Aramaic was so common among Jews that the reading of the Hebrew Scripture in the synagogue was accompanied by translation into Aramaic.
(For a helpful overview of Aramaic, see the "Comprehensive Aramaic Lexicon" website of Hebrew Union College.)
-Dr Mark Roberts


St Peter Died in ROME.  
Many Protestant scholars agree on this fact.  He was buried there as well.
Protestant scholar J. N. D. Kelly "Peter spent his closing years in Rome'

Other early writings which show that Peter was indeed in Rome...

Dionysius of Corinth in his letter to the 12th Pope Soter in 170 A.D.
 
Clement of Corinth in his letter to the Corinthians in 70 A.D.

Peter of Alexandria, in his work called 'Penance' in 311.

St Ignatius of Antioch, in his letter to the Romans, about 107.

[TradCath]

"Some call it Marxism — I call it Judaism." (The American Bulletin, Rabbi S. Wise, May 5, 1935).

"The Communists are against religion (Christianity), and they seek to destroy religion; yet, when we look deeper into the nature of Communism, we see that it is essential nothing else than a religion (Judaism)."
(A Program for the Jews and Humanity, Rabbi Harry Waton, p. 138).

“The only reason that Jews are in pornography is that we think that Christ sucks. Catholicism sucks."
---Al Goldstein, CEO of Screw Magazine & Film


Protestants have been used by Jews to bring about this New World Order, that we all now face and must live with.
The Church Kept Order for 1600 years.
Protestants (knowingly and unknowingly), Freemasons and Jews have destroyed most of what was good and we seee the results:  Communism, Feminsim, Abortion, USURY, Racial Miscegenation, Theft of Palestine, WW1, WW2, Iraq, Afganistan, Heavy Taxation, Divorce, The Pill,  and destruction throughout the world.

[Tantor]

St Peter Died in ROME.  
Many Protestant scholars agree on this fact.  He was buried there as well.
Protestant scholar J. N. D. Kelly "Peter spent his closing years in Rome'

None of the Protestant Scholars I know would not agree with that fact...

J. N. D. Kelly also was not a protestant.. he was Anglican... big difference.

Peter could never have been in Rome.. and if by some stroke of luck that he was, it would never have been long enough to found a church.

[TradCath]

Protestants number over 35,000 Competing Sects.  Im sure you could find many that agree on nothing and why they cannibalize one another.
None can agree on Scripture or much anything else.


One honest Protestant historian and theologian -- Adolph Harnack -- wrote that "to deny the Roman stay of Peter is an error which today is clear to every scholar who is NOT BLIND. The martyr death of Peter at Rome was once contested by reason of Protestant prejudice."

'Peter had to die and be buried somewhere; and the OVERWHELMING CHRISTIAN TRADITION has been in agreement, from the EARLIEST TIMES, that it was actually in Rome that Peter died. F. J. Foakes-Jackson, in his book Peter: Prince of Apostles, states "that the tradition that the church [in Rome] had been founded by...Paul was well established by A.D. 178. From hence forth there is NO DOUBT whatever that, NOT ONLY AT ROME, but throughout the Christian church, Peter's visit to the city was an ESTABLISHED FACT, as was his martyrdom together with that of Paul" (New York, 1927. P. 155.).

Historian Arthur Stapylton Barnes agrees:
'The strong point in the evidence of the [church] fathers is their UNANIMITY. It is QUITE CLEAR that no other place was known to them as claiming to have been the scene of St. Peter's death, and the repository of his relics.' -- St. Peter in Rome, London, 1900. P. 7.


New Schaff-Herzog Encyclopedia of Religious Knowledge corroborates this by saying:
Tradition seems to maintain that Peter went to Rome toward the end of his life and there suffered martyrdom UNDER NERO. NO SOURCE describes the place of Peter's martyrdom as other than Rome. It seems most probable, on the whole, that Peter died a martyr's death IN ROME TOWARD THE CLOSE OF NERO'S REIGN, sometime AFTER the cessation of the general persecution. -- Article, "Peter."

John Ignatius Dollinger claims that the evidence "St. Peter worked in Rome is a FACT SO ABUNDANTLY PROVED and so deeply imbedded in the earliest Christian history, that whoever treats it as a legend ought in consistency to treat the whole of the earliest church history as LEGENDARY, or, at least, QUITE UNCERTAIN" (The 1st Age of Christianity and the Church, London. 1867. P. 296).

Protest-ants love this debate but it falls flat on their face every time...

There was ONE United, Universal Church,  until the Reformation!

Also, there is an abundance of material to show that Peter ordained Clement TO REPLACE LINUS as overseer of the Roman Church after the latter's martyrdom in 67 A.D. The list of bishops of Rome in the Ante-Nicene Fathers show that Clement was an overseer from 68-71 A.D.

Peter was the First Head and a Successor of Popes followed, elected by the Curia.

Whether or not he even died in Rome is largely irrelevant.  

Peter too was Crucified by the Jews as many of the Apostles and Saints were, They fled the Holy Land for their own safety and to promote the teachings of Christ.

The Anglican Church is a Protestant Sect.  It is not affiliated with the Catholic body whatsoever.

[Tantor]

There was ONE United, Universal Church,  until the Reformation!

Hmm... about the schism.. in 1054...  

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East%E2%80%93West_Schism

Where the Roman Catholic Church split from its Eastern Orthodox brothers?

The reformation happened in the 1500's.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protestant_Reformation

The Anglican Church is a Protestant Sect.  It is not affiliated with the Catholic body whatsoever.

The Anglican church is identical to the Catholic church except the Monarch of England claimed the papacy over the Church in England... the Anglican church has little to do with the protestant reformation (which split over ideology).. whereas the Anglican church split over the Pope refusing to give the English King a divorce.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Act_of_Supremacy_1559

You really should study your history... you are doing your cause a real disservice.

You know what the bible says about the fool... it is better to keep your mouth shut then to let the whole world know... and right now you are pretty much there.

[Jimmy]

I know chapter 16 of the gospel of Matthew.  

That's great. How about you do an exegesis on this and we compare notes.

No need for an exegesis at all.  The RCC simply doesn't show up there.

Hello Jimmy,

The bottom line:  Christ spoke Aramaic and nicknamed Simon "Kepha".  Christ did not speak Greek.  Peter IS "the rock", the earthly head of Christ's Church as Christ Himself states in Matthew 16.

I am thinking about programming a Hot Key on my computer with that text so I wont have to keep typing it.     Okay, now I got it.


Christ spoke Aramaic and nicknamed Simon "Kepha".  Christ did not speak Greek.

Christ spoke Aramaic and nicknamed Simon "Kepha".  Christ did not speak Greek.

Christ spoke Aramaic and nicknamed Simon "Kepha".  Christ did not speak Greek.

Christ spoke Aramaic and nicknamed Simon "Kepha".  Christ did not speak Greek.

Christ spoke Aramaic and nicknamed Simon "Kepha".  Christ did not speak Greek.

That is an example of your exegesis??   

[TradCath]

There was a Schism with the Orthodox, over the issue of the meaning of the word Filoque and use of leaven bread.
The Vatican and Constantinople both were headquarters for Christianity but sadly this issue separateed them.
Orthodox Christians still have Valid Sacraments including a Valid Mass.  Orthodox split WITH The Vatican and the Pope, not the other way around.


Anglican Church has nothing to do with Catholicism or The Vatican.
A Monarch cannot be the Head of the Church.  
It more resembles Luther  and Protest-antism that Catholicism.
Their Mass is invalid, Sacraments invalid and are marrying Homosexual couples.
Papal Bull "Apostolicae Curae", declared Anglican orders to be invalid.

You could use some of your own advice about research and history.

Sorry. Try again...Next