Bible alone?

[jainfl]

Does anyone know where in the Bible it says that the Bible is our only source of authority?

[farouk]

The Bible does not depend on human approval or confirmation.

The Psalmist said:

'For ever, O LORD, thy word is settled in heaven' (Psalm 119.89).

1 Peter speaks of the Word of God as the means by which Christians are 'begotten by the word of God which liveth and abideth for ever'.

The Lord Jesus said in His prayer of John 17, in verse 17: 'Thy word is truth'.

Such far reaching statements hardly indicate that God's Word is dependent on the sanction or agreement of mere mortals.

Does anyone know where in the Bible it says that the Bible is our only source of authority?

[blituri]

Yes, I do and so does anyone else who has ever read the Bible beyong looking up verses "git up a sermon."

Do you know of any Scripture or historical scholarship which says otherwise and can explain why they ran out of Scripture upon which the whole Christian Discipline (School of the Bible is built)?

What would like to add and for what purpose?

[farouk]

b:

I decline to argue with you. The Scriptures, in what they say about themselves, and in their effect as the inspired Word on the hearts and minds and lives of believers down the centuries, have an authority beyond others.

Only the Word of God by the Holy Spirit can have a positive effect on unbelievers. But wasting words on doubts is just futile, period, on something so self-evident.

May you find mercy.

[son of God]

Here's one:
(2Ti 3:16)  All Scripture is God-breathed, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness,

(2Ti 3:17)  that the man of God may be perfected, thoroughly furnished to every good work.


It is the word of God that for this.  Thus, God says that it alone is sufficient and complete.  Hence, nothing else is needed.  It's kind of funny, but the psychologists, "Christian" psychologists, don't believe that the Word of God is enough, and they will even tell you this.  Novel, for how is it that God needs us?  Or how is it that God needs carnal, worldly man to add to His Word in order to help people?  Does God lack?  Is God limited?  Is He stupid that He wouldn't give enough to us in His Word, or that He couldn't tell us in it?  Or is it at all possible that man can say anything whatsoever better than God said it?  Or that he knows anything even in the minutest degree that God doesn't know about the heart and soul and mind and emotions and withhold from us so that we are lacking without it?  Were they there when God made man?  Were they they when God formed the mind?  Were they there when God made the spirit, the soul?  What on earth do they know about it that God doesn't, and that He hasn't dealt with in His Word?  The crass blindness and extreme arrogance of "Christian" psychology is astounding -- it is a direct derivative of seculare psychology (study of spirit by damned men).  btw, I was raised in it and trained in it, but have seen it to supplant and supercede the Word of God for those who will not accept that same Word.  And yet they will get quite nasty about it.  O well. 

And the stuff will hit the fan over this post, unless I'm mistaken.  "professing themselves to be wise, they became FOOLS".

[Amo]

Matt 4:4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

John 5:39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.

Isa 8:20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

2 Tim 3:15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

Luke 8:21 And he answered and said unto them, My mother and my brethren are these which hear the word of God, and do it.

Luke 11:28 But he said, Yea rather, blessed are they that hear the word of God, and keep it.

Rom 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

Eph 6:17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:

1Thes 2:13 For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe.

Heb 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
13 Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do.

1 Pet 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
24 For all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away:
25 But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.

I Jn 2:14 I have written unto you, fathers, because ye have known him that is from the beginning. I have written unto you, young men, because ye are strong, and the word of God abideth in you, and ye have overcome the wicked one.

Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

[jainfl]

Here's one:
(2Ti 3:16)  All Scripture is God-breathed, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness,

Actually this verse indicates the opposite.  Even if Paul were telling us what Scripture is, i.e., exactly what books it contains, rather than simply what it does Paul exercised extra-Scriptural authority, thus negating the Bible alone doctrine.

[jainfl]

The material in quotes is what I know of the basic sola scriptura beliefs.

“The Bible is the only complete, inspired, inerrant and infallible authority on the Christian faith.”

This places the Bible, i.e., something that has been written, compiled, copied and translated with human input over God because it prevents God from having any direct face-to-face communication with mankind. This does not mean that the Bible isn’t inspired in its original form or in copies and translations thereof; God has the power to overcome and compensate for mankind’s sinful limitations, although not every copy or translation of the Bible is accurate or godly. But human beings cannot dictate to God by telling Him that He must vest all of His power and authority in the Bible. Nobody who puts restrictions on God can accept God because their starting premise is that God cannot be supreme, omnipotent, omniscient or omnipresent because He must submit to man.

If the Bible is the only means by which man can experience God, any man that rejects the Bible or has an erroneous knowledge of it cannot be corrected by God.

“The Bible explains everything necessary for salvation, i.e. church doctrines and teachings have no role in salvation.”

If you have to have the Bible to be saved, what happens when people don’t have access to the Bible? We are saved by faith in the divinity, sinlessness, atoning death and bodily resurrection of Jesus Christ, the only begotten Son of God. The Bible must be secondary to faith since people who do not have access to the Bible can still have faith.

I know of one Baptist that concedes that someone can still be saved even if they don’t have access to the Bible, but he insists that all authority must be vested in the Bible if you have access to it. I don’t see how this can make sense. It seems inconsistent, but I’m not sure how exactly.
“The Bible explains everything necessary to attain holiness, i.e. church doctrines and teachings have no role in attaining holiness.”

Then why are so many Bible believing independent church congregations so full of adultery and lying and thievery and child molestation and so lacking in holiness? The Bible may be the sole depository of whatever is needed to attain holiness. But in the absence of any earthly authority that can enforce holiness and discipline a Bible believing independent congregation, the Bible is of little use. These independent congregations and their leadership insist that they are answerable to their God. Some god.

The lack of holiness in these Bible believing independent congregations clearly demonstrates that they don’t practice what they preach. These congregations cannot attain holiness through the Bible because these very same congregations reject the plain words of the Bible when when the Bible says that Paul, the Apostles and the elders in Jerusalem exercised the power to determine Christian doctrine and standards of behavior and also appoint leaders for the local congregations. Scripture itself explains that Scripture is not the sole source of authority for the Church.

People that accept sola scriptura deny the ongoing role of the Holy Ghost. Scripture is of no use to anyone who refuses to turn their life over to God and accept His lead through the Holy Ghost. Holiness comes from God; Scripture is merely a conduit. People that follow sola scriptura cannot have any personal dealings with the Holy Ghost because they cannot risk having the Holy Ghost tell them that they are wrong about anything in Scripture.
“The Bible is the only legitimate source of revelation about God; nothing outside of the Bible can tell us anything about God.”

The Bible itself states that there are other sources of revelation about the nature and power of God apart from the Bible: Psalm 19:1 The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork.

My educational background is in science and history so it is only natural that I use science and history as tools for examining the Bible. The Bible is not self-interpreting. You cannot interpret the Bible with the Bible if your understanding of the Bible is faulty. You cannot know when science and history run contrary to the Bible unless you absolutely know what the Bible says and means. If science or history does not support the Bible, how do you know that it is science or history that is wrong and not your understanding of the Bible? I will give you an example. I daresay that a Bible believing Baptist believes God created the world in six 24-hour solar days. But such an understanding of the Bible is wrong. The Bible does not unequivocally say that the days of the creation week were solar days and nowhere does the Bible say that solar days have always been 24 hours in duration. And there is ample documentary and archaeologically evidence to suggest that the world has not always had 24 hour solar days or solar years of 365.25 days. And then the Indian Ocean earthquake that caused the tsunami that killed so many people a few years ago was so violent that it rattled the earth off of its axis- solar days after the quake were no longer 24 hours. So we can only understand the Bible in the presence of science and history.
“The Bible is verbally inspired, although not all Protestant traditions accept that the inspiration extends to copies and translations.”

The Bible never says that everything in it was verbally inspired; very few passages in the Bible begin with God telling someone to write down what God is about to say to them. The Bible, in its entirety, is lacking in too many details and too inconsistent in the details it does give to be entirely inspired in the way that sola scriptura requires it to be.
Canonization of the Bible came through the passive recognition of books that were already considered to be sacred and authoritative without any reliance on tradition or ecclesiastical authority.

If what is and is not Scripture was always readily apparent the process of canonization would not have been necessary. Scripture never tells us what it includes, and all of what Protestants (and the Baptists that won’t admit they are really Protestants) universally accept as Scripture was finally canonized due to the struggle with the Arian heresy. The Emperor Constantine, who sided with the Arians, ordered an Arian bishop, Eusebius, to prepare 50 copies of the Bible. Thus the Bible had to be formally canonized. To counter Eusebius St. Athanasius, the chief opponent of the Arians, circulated his own list of canonized books for the Bible and it is Athanasius’ canon that Protestants and Baptists accept. The canon that we now know is ever bit the product of tradition and authority.

In II Thessalonians 2:15 and 3:6 Paul speaks of the Gospel being delivered with tradition. So even if the Gospel came with Scripture, Paul, i.e., the Bible, puts tradition on the same level as Scripture. You must recognize the role of church tradition if you are going to stay in accordance with the Bible.

Furthermore, Paul and the Apostles had the authority to tell us what the Bible is (II Timothy 3:16, 17), and they had authority to add to the Bible (as John did with the Book of Revelation after Paul and the other 11 Apostles had died and after II Timothy 3:16, 17). Thus Paul and the Apostles had authority that is equal to the Bible. There is no verse in the Bible that says their authority ceased when they died.
“No specialized training, education or knowledge is necessary to understand the elements of the Bible that are essential to salvation and holiness in that the Bible is the final authority unto itself and thus
is self-interpreting in these matters.”

Then why does the Bible tell us that God gives us prophets, evangelists, pastors and teachers to perfect the saints, for the work of the ministry and edifying of the body of Christ? If everyone can understand the Bible on their own, why are prophets, evangelists, pastors and teachers necessary?

Declaring that the Bible is self-interpreting nullifies sola scriptura. Setting up parameters by which the Bible can be interpreted is in itself an interpretation- so sola scriptura is set on a foundation that goes outside of Scripture.

If the Bible is self-interpreting, then there is no mechanism by which someone who has a false interpretation can be corrected.

[HRoberson]

Does anyone know where in the Bible it says that the Bible is our only source of authority?

The answer is quite simple - it doesn't say any such thing.

[farouk]

The Bible does not depend on human approval or confirmation.

The Psalmist said:

'For ever, O LORD, thy word is settled in heaven' (Psalm 119.89).

1 Peter speaks of the Word of God as the means by which Christians are 'begotten by the word of God which liveth and abideth for ever'.

The Lord Jesus said in His prayer of John 17, in verse 17: 'Thy word is truth'.

Such far reaching statements hardly indicate that God's Word is dependent on the sanction or agreement of mere mortals.



Quote from: jainfl on Today at 07:41:45 PM
Does anyone know where in the Bible it says that the Bible is our only source of authority?

[jiggyfly]

The Bible does not depend on human approval or confirmation.

The Psalmist said:

'For ever, O LORD, thy word is settled in heaven' (Psalm 119.89).

1 Peter speaks of the Word of God as the means by which Christians are 'begotten by the word of God which liveth and abideth for ever'.

The Lord Jesus said in His prayer of John 17, in verse 17: 'Thy word is truth'.

Such far reaching statements hardly indicate that God's Word is dependent on the sanction or agreement of mere mortals.



Quote from: jainfl on Today at 07:41:45 PM
Does anyone know where in the Bible it says that the Bible is our only source of authority?

Do you believe that spiritual birth is a result of the scriptures?

[farouk]

j:

Peter 1:23 "Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever."

The Bible does not depend on human approval or confirmation.

The Psalmist said:

'For ever, O LORD, thy word is settled in heaven' (Psalm 119.89).

1 Peter speaks of the Word of God as the means by which Christians are 'begotten by the word of God which liveth and abideth for ever'.

The Lord Jesus said in His prayer of John 17, in verse 17: 'Thy word is truth'.

Such far reaching statements hardly indicate that God's Word is dependent on the sanction or agreement of mere mortals.



Quote from: jainfl on Today at 07:41:45 PM
Does anyone know where in the Bible it says that the Bible is our only source of authority?

Do you believe that spiritual birth is a result of the scriptures?

[farouk]

PS: This thread, which was in the Theology section, was for some reason moved to the Roman Catholic section.

But the Bible is not dependent on the patronage of the Roman Catholic church, or any other. The final authority of the Word of God is a matter for all professing believers.

[Magnificat]

The Bible does not depend on human approval or confirmation.

True. But you cannot get away from the fact that humans wrote the books and declared the canon.  The Bible did not write itself.

The Psalmist said:

'For ever, O LORD, thy word is settled in heaven' (Psalm 119.89).

1 Peter speaks of the Word of God as the means by which Christians are 'begotten by the word of God which liveth and abideth for ever'.

The Lord Jesus said in His prayer of John 17, in verse 17: 'Thy word is truth'.

Such far reaching statements hardly indicate that God's Word is dependent on the sanction or agreement of mere mortals.

Exactly. The Psalmist, Peter, etc.  The Bible is the Word of God in the words of man.

[farouk]

The writers were 'moved by the Spirit'. The Roman Catholic church had NIL to do with it; there is no theological or historical basis for such a claim whatsoever.

It's not even worth wasting time arguing over it.

The Bible does not depend on human approval or confirmation.

True. But you cannot get away from the fact that humans wrote the books and declared the canon.  The Bible did not write itself.

The Psalmist said:

'For ever, O LORD, thy word is settled in heaven' (Psalm 119.89).

1 Peter speaks of the Word of God as the means by which Christians are 'begotten by the word of God which liveth and abideth for ever'.

The Lord Jesus said in His prayer of John 17, in verse 17: 'Thy word is truth'.

Such far reaching statements hardly indicate that God's Word is dependent on the sanction or agreement of mere mortals.

Exactly. The Psalmist, Peter, etc.  The Bible is the Word of God in the words of man.