Catholic bashing

[Nevertheless]

Calling someone a "fool" is not improper when they clearly demonstrate that they are one.  

From the Forum Rules:

1.1  You may discuss another individual's beliefs or religious organization but you will not harass, insult, belittle, threaten, defame or flame the individual

If you would like to discuss this further, please do so by PM.

[farouk]

My polite question is, How can we know what a Christian is, except through the Bible? There is the difference, you see.

Ppl should not get personal about that aspect.

[DCR]

I can say that things improved when the board was reorganized to set up communion/fellowship/denomination/(whatever term you prefer)-specific forums.  There was a time when all these discussion threads were under Theology, and the board became dominated by Catholic-Protestant clashes.

Moderating in those situations was an extreme challenge.  People were banned on both sides of the trenches (when a blue name goes black, as broach alluded to).  To step in and attempt to moderate in a situation like that was to be accused of being a sympathizer of one side versus the other... just generally not a fun situation for anyone.

With that said, even in light of the forum rules which we all need to keep in mind, there is a code of common decency that polite, civilized people abide by.  That goes out the window when endoctrinated prejudice and lack of any attempt at understanding enter the picture.

[desertknight]

My polite question is, How can we know what a Christian is, except through the Bible? There is the difference, you see.

I don't know of what difference you are alluding to.  In the Catholic Church, what we believe is encapsulated by what is required by every faithful Catholic to publicly affirm at every Mass.  It has come down to us through the ages from the Apostles and is thoroughly grounded in Holy Scripture.

We believe in one God, the Father Almighty, maker of heaven and earth, and of all things visible and invisible. And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only begotten Son of God, and born of the Father before all ages. God of God, light of light, true God of true God. Begotten not made, one in being with the Father, by whom all things were made. Whom for us men and for our salvation came down from heaven. And was incarnate of the Holy Ghost and of the Virgin Mary and was made man; was crucified also for us under Pontius Pilate, suffered, died, and was buried; and the third day rose again according to the Scriptures. And ascended into heaven, sits at the right hand of the Father, and shall come again with glory to judge the living and the dead, of whose Kingdom there shall be no end. And in the Holy Ghost, the Lord and Giver of life, who proceeds from the Father (and the Son), who together with the Father and the Son is to be worshiped and glorified, who has spoken through the Prophets. And in One Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church. We confess one baptism for the remission of sins. And we look for the resurrection of the dead and the life of the world to come. Amen."

That is the definitive statement of Catholic belief.

[Charles Sloan]

 

[farouk]

dk:

Thank-you for the response.

In a friendly way I would draw your attention to 1 Timothy 2.5 which says, 'There is one God, and one Mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.'

To Hebrews 7.25, which says that the Lord Jesus 'ever liveth to make intercession' for believers.

To First John 2.1: 'If any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous'.

To Hebrews 9 and 10 which say that 'Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many'; 'by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified'.

My polite question is, How can we know what a Christian is, except through the Bible? There is the difference, you see.

I don't know of what difference you are alluding to.  In the Catholic Church, what we believe is encapsulated by what is required by every faithful Catholic to publicly affirm at every Mass.  It has come down to us through the ages from the Apostles and is thoroughly grounded in Holy Scripture.

We believe in one God, the Father Almighty, maker of heaven and earth, and of all things visible and invisible. And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only begotten Son of God, and born of the Father before all ages. (God of God) light of light, true God of true God. Begotten not made, one in being with the Father, by whom all things were made. Whom for us men and for our salvation came down from heaven. And was incarnate of the Holy Ghost and of the Virgin Mary and was made man; was crucified also for us under Pontius Pilate, suffered and was buried; and the third day rose again according to the Scriptures. And ascended into heaven, sits at the right hand of the Father, and shall come again with glory to judge the living and the dead, of whose Kingdom there shall be no end. And in the Holy Ghost, the Lord and Giver of life, who proceeds from the Father (and the Son), who together with the Father and the Son is to be worshiped and glorified, who has spoken through the Prophets. And in One Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church. We confess one baptism for the remission of sins. And we look for the resurrection of the dead and the life of the world to come. Amen."

That is the definitive statement of Catholic belief.

[desertknight]

In a friendly way I would draw your attention to 1 Timothy 2.5 which says, 'There is one God, and one Mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.'

And so would any Catholic believe.  Christ is the only source of grace that saves us.  Any others we ask, we ask to intercede and pray for us, be they living or in heaven with our Lord, (The prayers of a righteous man...).  The Nicene Creed above clearly states this.

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08070a.htm

"The doctrine of one Mediator, Christ, in no way excludes the invocation and intercession of saints. All merit indeed comes through Him; but this does not make it unlawful to ask our fellow-creatures, whether here on earth or already in heaven, to help us by their prayers. The same Apostle who insists so strongly on the sole mediatorship of Christ, earnestly begs the prayers of his brethren: "I beseech you, therefore, brethren, through our Lord Jesus Christ, and by the charity of the Holy Ghost, that you help me in your prayers for me to God" (Romans 15:30); and he himself prays for them: "I give thanks to my God in every remembrance of you, always in all my prayers making supplication for you all" (Philippians 1:3-4). If the prayers of the brethren on earth do not derogate from the glory and dignity of the Mediator, Christ, neither do the prayers of the saints in heaven."

To First John 2.1: 'If any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous'.

Absolutely, but our Lord also empowered His ministers to act in His name....

John 20:22-23 "And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:  Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained."

To Hebrews 9 and 10 which say that 'Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many'; 'by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified'.

You have to help me out with this one.  I'm not sure what your point, exactly, is here.

[Sardine Can]

[Tantor]

Absolutely, but our Lord also empowered His ministers to act in His name....

John 20:22-23 "And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:  Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained."

I don't recall Christ breathing on anyone in the history of the RCC.. ever.  

Nor did Jesus mention the original Apostles having successors who were equal to them... all they made were disciples.

[Sardine Can]

Catholic Safe House
No debate, just fellowship for Catholic Christians.
 

[desertknight]

I don't recall Christ breathing on anyone in the history of the RCC.. ever.  

Nor did Jesus mention the original Apostles having successors who were equal to them... all they made were disciples.

Then I assume that you practice an obscure form of Christianity that does not baptise or celebrate the Lord's Supper as well, for those too were charged by our Lord to His Apostles to perform in His name.  I guess we were just supposed to let that die out with them as well...

[Nevertheless]

Catholic Safe House
No debate, just fellowship for Catholic Christians.
 

You have a point . . .

[Tantor]

I don't recall Christ breathing on anyone in the history of the RCC.. ever.  

Nor did Jesus mention the original Apostles having successors who were equal to them... all they made were disciples.

Then I assume that you practice an obscure form of Christianity that does not baptise or celebrate the Lord's Supper as well, for those too were charged by our Lord to His Apostles to perform in His name.  I guess we were just supposed to let that die out with them as well...

I believe that yes.. they were to die out.  They were intended for the generation living during Christ and the Apostles time.   Jesus is now the head of his church...

Besides, the Lords supper was to be practiced until he returned and there is ample evidence that he did return in AD70.. (maybe not the way your church or the futurists would want... but it is consistent with the way that Jesus appeared the first time).

But then again, Christians get baptized personally by Jesus with the Holy Spirit and fire... I'll take the scriptures words on that.

It's unfortunate that you and your entire church have been living a lie for so long.

Your faith takes on a whole new dimension when you finally realize that the reality of the situation is that Christ completed everything.. there is no more need for religious trappings.. only proclaimers of the Gospel and those that minister to and help one another.  Just like the 1st century church.. now imagine that!

[desertknight]

I believe that yes.. they were to die out.  They were intended for the generation living during Christ and the Apostles time.

I must have missed in Scripture where that authority was supposed to "die out".

James 5:14-15  "Is any one of you sick? He should call the Presbyters of the Church to pray over him and anoint him with oil in the name of the Lord. And the prayer offered in faith will make the sick person well; the Lord will raise him up. If he has sinned, he will be forgiven."  

Jesus is now the head of his church...

He has always been the head of His Church, any man that is His "Pope" is simply His regent and represents His authority.

he returned and there is ample evidence that he did return in AD70

You believe He returned again in AD70?

[winsome]

I go away for a couple of hours and the above happens. Sort of makes my point doesn't it (see OP if anyone can't remember what the OP was about).

There was a useful discussion between Catholics going on until ExCathedra's gratuitously inflammatory interventions.