Catholic

[trifecta]

the verse has already been translated from the greek and as it states God gives us more than just the energy to do it it is him who does it. though we may still have fear and trembling.

I hate to be picky here, but it is problem with the West's intrepretation of Scripture.  The Greek word for "work" in these verses is energia.  The west didn't understand what the word energy meant because there is no word for energy in Latin.   Augustine, whom Protestants and Catholics depend too much on for issues of theology IMHO, did not read Greek, so he really didn't get that verse.    The west just expounded on Augustine, while the eastern Christian world understood it since they read the Bible in Greek. 

[banished]

the verse has already been translated from the greek and as it states God gives us more than just the energy to do it it is him who does it. though we may still have fear and trembling.

I hate to be picky here, but it is problem with the West's intrepretation of Scripture.  The Greek word for "work" in these verses is energia.  The west didn't understand what the word energy meant because there is no word for energy in Latin.   Augustine, whom Protestants and Catholics depend too much on for issues of theology IMHO, did not read Greek, so he really didn't get that verse.    The west just expounded on Augustine, while the eastern Christian world understood it since they read the Bible in Greek. 

trifecta-

I agree with the Orthodox about Vatican II.  I don't know how they could justified going against the Creed of St Athanasius? "Whoever wishes to be saved must, above all, keep the Catholic faith. For unless a person keeps this faith whole and entire, he will undoubtedly be lost for ever."

[winsome]

the verse has already been translated from the greek and as it states God gives us more than just the energy to do it it is him who does it. though we may still have fear and trembling.

I hate to be picky here, but it is problem with the West's intrepretation of Scripture.  The Greek word for "work" in these verses is energia.  The west didn't understand what the word energy meant because there is no word for energy in Latin.   Augustine, whom Protestants and Catholics depend too much on for issues of theology IMHO, did not read Greek, so he really didn't get that verse.    The west just expounded on Augustine, while the eastern Christian world understood it since they read the Bible in Greek.  

trifecta-

I agree with the Orthodox about Vatican II.  I don't know how they could justified going against the Creed of St Athanasius? "Whoever wishes to be saved must, above all, keep the Catholic faith. For unless a person keeps this faith whole and entire, he will undoubtedly be lost for ever."

Hi Banished.

There are a couple of points here about salvation and the Catholic faith.

Firstly the Athanasian Creed. We should note the statement after the one you quoted above (the one I have emboldened below):

P: Whoever wills to be saved must before all else hold fast to the Catholic faith.
All: Unless one keeps this faith whole and untarnished, without doubt he will perish forever.

P: Now this is the Catholic faith: that we worship one God in Trinity, and Trinity in unity;
All: Neither confusing the Persons one with the other, nor making a distinction in their nature.

It is possible to argue from this that Athanasius was implying that the doctrine of the Trinity was essential but that he was not necessarily including all doctrines.

The second point is that the idea that people outside the visible Catholic Church could be saved was not introduced at Vatican II. The Church has always recognised the possibility of salvation for those who do not know or accept Christ. Pius IX in his encyclical letter "Quanto Conficiamur Moerore" of 1863, said  "It is known, that those who observe with zeal the natural law and its precepts engraved by God in the hearts of all men, can attain eternal life if they are willing to obey God and lead a good life."

I think we have to be careful about implying that anyone is outside the possibility of God's saving grace.

“Then who can be saved?” But Jesus looked at them and said, “For mortals it is impossible, but for God all things are possible.” (Mt 19:25-26)

[winsome]

Catholic got some weird ideas.


Don't they communicate with dead people?..This is prohibited in the bible.

Also they have additional scripture too.

Excuse my ignorance, thats all I know

cezza. I think you have some misunderstandings about Catholicism. This is not the forum to discuss the above. Can I suggest you raise them in the Catholic Forum where we can discuss them.

[banished]

winsome-

Yes, the doctrine of "outside the Church there is no salvation" went out the window with communion cloths and communion rails.  I just say the Rosary daily and try not to think about it. As an excommunicated Catholic for the past 22 years, who am I to say?

[DCR]

Any hope of being "re-communicated"?

[banished]

Any hope of being "re-communicated"?

I would need a Radical Sanation from the Bishop, and my present wife would never agree to something like that. I doubt very much if a Bishop would grant a Sanation behind my wife's back and allow me to have communion in secret while living in sin with a Protestant marrage? I out lived one wife already, so there is always a chance that I may become widowed again? If not, there will be no Last Rites for me!   

[Basherbelding]

What do I need to do though? I'm christened Catholic and I want to be saved I do believe in God and that Jesus died for us. Does me being christened a Catholic make a difference?

[DCR]

while living in sin with a Protestant marrage?

Being married to a Protestant is considered to be living in sin?

[banished]

while living in sin with a Protestant marrage?

Being married to a Protestant is considered to be living in sin?

As I recall, the living in sin part was lifted recently, and now the marrage is simply  classified as "not recongnized" by the Catholic Chruch.  If my wife was to agree to getting  married again in the Catholic Church we would have to stop having sex for a peroid of time before receiving the Sacrament of Marriage. I assume that the new Canon Law says that we are not living in sin as long as we stay on the Protestant side.  However, I can't be in communion with the Catholic Church and sleep with a Protestant.  Believe this or not, the Church has Canon Lawyers (for a fee) and the everyone knows that the Bishop's 401K is supported by Radical Sanation (payola). We are talking about millions upon millions of Catholics who slipped up and married a Protestant.  Then there are countless divorsed Catholics who slipped up and got remarried with out the approval of the Church. The Bishop's 401K keeps building up, so why change it?

[Basherbelding]

Can someone answer my question please.

I'm christened Catholic and I want to be saved I do believe in God and that Jesus died for us. Does me being christened a Catholic make a difference?

[desertknight]

Yes, it makes a difference.
 
John 3:5  "Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God."
 
If you have been baptized under the sign of water through the power of the Holy Spirit in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost, within any Christian tradition, that is sufficient.  It need not be Catholic.

[banished]

Can someone answer my question please.

I'm christened Catholic and I want to be saved I do believe in God and that Jesus died for us. Does me being christened a Catholic make a difference?

Well, the Catholics believe that John Chaper 3 is about Baptism, and the Protestant single out one verse (John 3:16) and believe that they are Born Again.  The choice is yours.  Catholic believe that your Salvation through Baptism is conditional, and the Protestants believe that being Born Again is for ever until Jesus comes.  Again the choice is yours. Catholics believe that you must renew your Salvation with the Sacrament of Confessing your sins to a Priest, do your penants, and have communion.

There is much more freedom on the Protestant side, but the wafer that you receive at the alter to the Catholic Church is the real Jesus, so the rules are much tighter for Catholics.  How old are you now?  Are you still living with your parents?

[mclees8]

while living in sin with a Protestant marrage?

Being married to a Protestant is considered to be living in sin?

As I recall, the living in sin part was lifted recently, and now the marrage is simply  classified as "not recongnized" by the Catholic Chruch.  If my wife was to agree to getting  married again in the Catholic Church we would have to stop having sex for a peroid of time before receiving the Sacrament of Marriage. I assume that the new Canon Law says that we are not living in sin as long as we stay on the Protestant side.  However, I can't be in communion with the Catholic Church and sleep with a Protestant.  Believe this or not, the Church has Canon Lawyers (for a fee) and the everyone knows that the Bishop's 401K is supported by Radical Sanation (payola). We are talking about millions upon millions of Catholics who slipped up and married a Protestant.  Then there are countless divorsed Catholics who slipped up and got remarried with out the approval of the Church. The Bishop's 401K keeps building up, so why change it?

Oh Brother! God help us !!

[winsome]

Salvation has a past, a present and a future.
We are saved from something; we are saved for something; and in between there is a journey where we become fit to receive our final salvation.

I have been saved.
We are initially saved when we repent, believe and are baptized. This makes us children of God and heirs to the kingdom.
But before we come into this inheritance there is much we need to do. The initial act of salvation makes us right with God (righteous or justified) but the process will also include ongoing repentance (when we sin), faith (in Jesus), hope (based on our faith) and love (expressed in good works). If we do no good works then indeed our faith is dead and unfruitful. What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if you say you have faith but do not have works? Can faith save you? If a brother or sister is naked and lacks daily food, and one of you says to them, “Go in peace; keep warm and eat your fill,” and yet you do not supply their bodily needs, what is the good of that? So faith by itself, if it has no works, is dead. (Jas 2:14-17)

I am being saved.
Now I would remind you, brothers and sisters, of the good news that I proclaimed to you, which you in turn received, in which also you stand, through which also you are being saved, if you hold firmly to the message that I proclaimed to you. (1Cor 15:1-2)
For the message about the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. (1Cor 1:18)
For we are the aroma of Christ to God among those who are being saved and among those who are perishing; (2Cor 2:15)

I hope to be saved.
But the one who endures to the end will be saved. (Mt 24:13)
If the work is burned up, the builder will suffer loss; the builder will be saved, but only as through fire. (1Cor 3:15)
Therefore, my beloved, just as you have always obeyed me, not only in my presence, but much more now in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling; (Phil 2:12)
we boast in our hope of sharing the glory of God. (Rom 5:2)
But since we belong to the day, let us be sober, and put on the breastplate of faith and love, and for a helmet the hope of salvation. (1Thes 5:8)