Quote Elvisman
All that being said, I don't understand how you think that leaders will be perfect.
I don't think leaders will be perfect. It's because they aren't perfect, that they cannot be assigned infallibility. There is a difference between occasional sin and ongoing, chronic sin. Or the occasional trip and fall compared to a happy diving into flagrant, continuous sin.
OTOH, the Word makes it clear what leaders in the church should be.
1 Tim. 3:2-
" A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, temperate, sober minded, of good behavior, hospitable, able to teach, not given to wine, not violent, not greedy for money, but gentle, not quarrelsome, not covetous, one who rules his own house well, having his children in submission with all reverence (for if a man does not know how to rule his own house, how will he take care of the church of God? not a novice, lest being puffed up with pride he fall into the same condemnation as the devil. Moreover he must have a good testimony among those who are outside, lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil.
Likewise deacons must be reverent, not double-tongued, not given to much wine, not greedy for money, holding the mystery of the faith with a pure conscience. But let these also first be tested; then let them serve as deacons, being found blameless. Likewise, their wives must be reverent, not slanderers, temperate, faithful in all things. Let deacons be the husbands of one wife, ruling their children and their own houses well."
If leaders were going to be protected by God to get it right in matters of great importance, no matter what sins they might be mired in - then there's no need for requirements for leadership.
If God has spelled it out on what the requirement is of leaders, to ignore His clear directions and follow a leader who is in flagrant sin and can't even meet a majority of the requirements, is to march purposely blind behind a sheep-covered wolf to our own death and destruction. To believe that the words/food that came from the sheep-covered wolf is a purposeful self-deception, IMO.
The warnings are throughout the Old and New Testament. Beware. There is no place in the Word that I recall where there is anything approaching a directive to believe that everything the church leaders proclaim will be true. In fact, just the opposite.
2 Cor 11:13-
"For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into apostles of Christ. And no wonder! For Satan himself transforms himself into an angel of light. Therefore it is not great thing if his ministers also transform themselves into
ministers of righteousness, whose end will be according to their works."
Quote Elvisman
The Church is the Body of Christ, and therefore, unable to espouse error in matters pertaining to salvation. I disagree with you that the Scripture verses I presented do not apply. Matt. 24:11 and 2 Pet. 2:1-3 also speak of false teachers and prophets who will "deceive many".
I'm sorry, I wasn't clear. When I said "I don't think this applies" I was only addressing Judas as an example of an imperfect leader. As far as we call tell, other than the occasional dips into the money bag, it wasn't until he had decided to betray Jesus and in doing so Satan entered into him - which occurred at the Last Supper - that he had gone fully rogue.
Quote Elvisman
As for the authority of the Apostles being as limited as you say - I ALSO disagree with you.
Let's read what Jesus told the 70 before sending them out:
Luke 10:10-16
"Whatever town you enter and they do not receive you, go out into the streets and say, ‘The dust of your town that clings to our feet, even that we shake off against you.’ Yet know this: the kingdom of God is at hand. I tell you, it will be more tolerable for Sodom on that day than for that town. Whatever town you enter and they do not receive you, go out into the streets and say, ‘The dust of your town that clings to our feet, even that we shake off against you.’ Yet know this: the kingdom of God is at hand. I tell you, it will be more tolerable for Sodom on that day than for that town.
Reproaches to Unrepentant Towns. “Woe to you, Chorazin! Woe to you, Bethsaida!m For if the mighty deeds done in your midst had been done in Tyre and Sidon, they would long ago have repented, sitting in sackcloth and ashes. But it will be more tolerable for Tyre and Sidon at the judgment than for you. And as for you, Capernaum, ‘Will you be exalted to heaven? You will go down to the netherworld.’
Topic: Contradictions (Read 12418 times)