Define Catholics!

[HRoberson]

HRoberson

Take the doctrine quiz on my web site, you may find out that you are a Catholic.  http://www.theapostlesdoctrine.com

My dear Robert. I already have. I scored 100%.

It made me feel good.

[James A. Wyly]

broach972


The Catholic church..... believe(s) that it is the Spirit working in ones life that makes them acceptable to God.  It is the Spirit that saves not Christ.

The Catholic Church, as do all other liturgical churches, recites the Nicene Creed every mass as a statement of its basic beliefs.  In part, that Creed says:

" For us and for our salvation
           he (Christ) came down from heaven;
           he became incarnate by the Holy Spirit and the virgin Mary,
           and was made human.
           He was crucified for us under Pontius Pilate;...."


I am not sure why you claim the Catholic Church believes Christ does not save us.  The salvation of fallen man was the entire point of the incarnation, the death and the resurrection.  

The Catholic Church believes nothing different than you and I do on this point and spells it out every Sunday in its liturgy.

Jim W.

[mistergus]

I am not sure why you claim the Catholic Church believes Christ does not save us.  The salvation of fallen man was the entire point of the incarnation, the death and the resurrection.  

The Catholic Church believes nothing different than you and I do on this point and spells it out every Sunday in its liturgy. Jim W.

Actually, there is a huge difference.

The Catholic Church would have us run a gauntlet to get to God.

Praying through Mary...going through a human "Priest'...

Part of the body of offical Catholic doctrine is the treaching that we must obtain forgiveness from Mary herself, in addition to Jesus Christ, that she is a "co-redeemer" with Christ himself.


 Leo XIII, Encyclical, Octobri mense adventante, Sept 22, 1891, ASS 24, 1891, 196.

... it is right to say, that nothing at all of that very great treasury of all grace which the Lord brought us--for 'grace and truth came through Jesus Christ' [Jn 1.17]--nothing is imparted to us except through Mary, since God so wills, so that just as no one can come to the Father except through the Son, so in general, no one can come to Christ except through His Mother.


There's a ton of info out there on this subject.  This is only one of a thousand places to start...


http://www.wayoflife.org/fbns/marycoredeemer.htm


What an amazingly ritualistic, works-centered religion Catholicism is.

Robert G

[Robert Pate]

mistergus

Thank you mistergus.  I have sat in Catholic services and heard the priest recite the nicene creed and thought, gee they believe just like I do.  It is very decieving, they mean something entirely different.

There interpretation of grace means that it is the goodness of God working in us that makes us acceptable to God.

There is no gospel in the Catholic church, when they say gospel they mean
Matthew, Mark, Luke and John.

When I say gospel, I mean the life, death and resurrection. Where God has provided salvation for us in the person of Jesus Christ.

[Robert Pate]

HRoberson

I am glad that you scored 100%. You can now go to heaven.

[broach972]

mistergus,
You have me worried.  You might want to stay away from those Marian doctrines.  I don't want you bursting any brain cells.  They can be intellectually challenging, and they are not for the faint at heart.  But I offer the following for your amusement.

http://www.christendom-awake.org/pages/marian/5thdogma/most.htm

One must understand that Mary is not divine and the Marian doctrines have nothing to do with making Mary divine, but protecting the divinity of Christ.  Her role is primarily intercessory in nature, as it is with the saints.  How many times have Christians asked someone to pray for them in time of need?  And I can bet that Jesus loved his momma.  Would we think any differently?  Besides, what would have happened if she would have said no?

[James A. Wyly]

mistergus

Thank you mistergus.  I have sat in Catholic services and heard the priest recite the nicene creed and thought, gee they believe just like I do.  It is very decieving, they mean something entirely different.

There interpretation of grace means that it is the goodness of God working in us that makes us acceptable to God.

I know that the commonly accepted meaning of the words of the Nicene Creed say our salvation is dependant upon Jesus becoming flesh, dying on the cross and being resurrected.  That is the plain meaning of the language of the Creed .

If the Catholics have some secret, hidden meaning of the words apart from the commonly accepted one, I cannot answer that.  But both you and I know they do not.

There is no gospel in the Catholic church, when they say gospel they mean
Matthew, Mark, Luke and John.

When I say gospel, I mean the life, death and resurrection. Where God has provided salvation for us in the person of Jesus Christ.

So far as the Catholics meaning something different by “gospel” than you do, actually if you analyze it even cursorily, they do not.  When they speak of the “gospels,” they are referring to the “gospel books” of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John.  The overwhelming Christian world, including me, would agree.

On the other hand, if they were asked, “What is the ‘gospel’” meaning “what is the “gospel message” or “good news,” they would answer as you have.

Why are you splitting these semantic hairs, saying the Catholics have secret meanings in their use of words?  If they do, they’d soon better make their rhetoric match their intent or they will find their parishioners have all been inadvertently brainwashed into the Church of Christ.

Jim Wyly

[Machaira]

Her role is primarily intercessory in nature, as it is with the saints.  How many times have Christians asked someone to pray for them in time of need? 

Mary and the "saints" as intercessors would require that they possess the incommunicable attributes of omniscience and omnipresence. How do finite creatures pull this off? Where is there any indication in the Scriptures that such an important role was assigned to Mary and the saints? Beside all of this, the Scriptures clearly tell us who intercedes for us during our feeble prayers.

Rom 8:26  And in like manner the Spirit also helpeth our infirmity: for we know not how to pray as we ought; but the Spirit himself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered;
Rom 8:27  and he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.

[HRoberson]

HRoberson

I am glad that you scored 100%. You can now go to heaven.

Thank you for your permission. 

[mistergus]

One must understand that Mary is not divine and the Marian doctrines have nothing to do with making Mary divine, but protecting the divinity of Christ.  Her role is primarily intercessory in nature, as it is with the saints.  How many times have Christians asked someone to pray for them in time of need?

Her role is "primarily intercessory in nature, as it is with the saints"?  What saints?  Dead or alive?

Doesn't matter.

"For there is one God, and one mediator between God and man, the man Jesus Christ"  -  1 Timothy 2:5.

Why would anyone waste their time praying to Mary, or anyone else?

Robert G

[janine]

Such people assume Mary can hear them when they ask her to pray for them.

[kensington]

mistergus,
You have me worried.  You might want to stay away from those Marian doctrines.  I don't want you bursting any brain cells.  They can be intellectually challenging, and they are not for the faint at heart.  But I offer the following for your amusement.

http://www.christendom-awake.org/pages/marian/5thdogma/most.htm

One must understand that Mary is not divine and the Marian doctrines have nothing to do with making Mary divine, but protecting the divinity of Christ.  Her role is primarily intercessory in nature, as it is with the saints.  How many times have Christians asked someone to pray for them in time of need?  And I can bet that Jesus loved his momma.  Would we think any differently?  Besides, what would have happened if she would have said no?

Mary was 100% human. She died and is awaiting the resurrection like everyone else. She is not seated at the left hand of the father interceding for us.  Why do you need others to pray for you when you can ask the VERY LORD WHO DIED FOR YOU to intercede for you, and He is seated at the right hand of the Father doing that?

When the disciples asked Jesus to teach them to pray... He did not mention, Mother, He went right to the Father.

There is no Mary in the trinity. And there never was. She said it best herself... she was a servant of God.  Blessed to do what He asked of her. 

I think it a shame to do something to Mary that she did not intend or ask. She was a humble servant, never part of the God head. And I bet we will find she disappointed that her words were so misunderstood.   

[trifecta]

Catholics are what all Christians were called for about 1000 years.

Roman Catholic refers to one of the five patriarchates of the original
churches.  The others were (and at still exist) at Alexandria, Antioch,
Constantinople, and Jerusalem.  

There are Maronite (Lebanon), Melkite (Arab?(, and Uniate (Ukrainian) churches  today that are part of the current post-schism Catholic church.  

The other four patriarchates after the Great Schism (1054) became known as the Orthodox churches.

All of today's Catholics recognize the Pope (Benedict XVI) as the leader of their church and the Vicar of Christ.

Much Christian doctrine that Protestants believe were developed in the Catholic Church.

As one who is learning the eastern Christian tradition, let me say to all you
Catholic-bashers out there:  be careful at whom you throw stones.

You have much more in common with Catholics than you think.


trifecta
(see below for my theological tendencies)

 

[James.]

Catholics are those who submit to the Bishop of Rome and all his extrabiblical laws and edicts.

[mistergus]

Much Christian doctrine that Protestants believe were developed in the Catholic Church.

I challenge this claim.  It has no basis in fact. 

Any "Protestant" who believes a doctrine not originating from scripture should re-examine that teaching.

But those who look to the scriptures for authority for their faith and practice need go no further than the Bible.  And they don't.

And as far as nonessentials are concerned, just because windows are common in church buildings doesn't mean their use was developed in the Catholic church.

Robert G