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Offline mclees8

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Does the pope descern the times
« on: Mon Jun 29, 2015 - 16:16:04 »
What is the popes thoughts about the new Gay law. Just half to ask. How about you guys

Just a little google turns up that he is purity liberal. Do Priests marry gay Catholics? What is the take on Romans 1  Bible believing Protestants say its sin. Hard to deny what Paul said. Is Gods word regarded at all here? 
« Last Edit: Mon Jun 29, 2015 - 16:30:56 by mclees8 »

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Does the pope descern the times
« on: Mon Jun 29, 2015 - 16:16:04 »

Offline Ladonia

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Re: Does the pope descern the times
« Reply #1 on: Tue Jun 30, 2015 - 20:26:20 »
What is the popes thoughts about the new Gay law. Just half to ask. How about you guys

Just a little google turns up that he is purity liberal. Do Priests marry gay Catholics? What is the take on Romans 1  Bible believing Protestants say its sin. Hard to deny what Paul said. Is Gods word regarded at all here?

The Holy Father is pretty conservative on this issue - it's love the sinner but hate the sin. And no, there is not a priest in this world who would ever marry two of the same gender. Marriage is a sacrament and it is reserved for one man and one woman. Hope that helps.

And yes, I think that Pope Francis is a bit on the liberal side, quite unlike his predecessor Pope Benedict.  But as for church teachings, he is as orthodox a catholic as there ever was.
« Last Edit: Tue Jun 30, 2015 - 20:31:29 by Ladonia »

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Re: Does the pope descern the times
« Reply #1 on: Tue Jun 30, 2015 - 20:26:20 »

Offline mclees8

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Re: Does the pope descern the times
« Reply #2 on: Wed Jul 01, 2015 - 07:38:55 »
What is the popes thoughts about the new Gay law. Just half to ask. How about you guys

Just a little google turns up that he is purity liberal. Do Priests marry gay Catholics? What is the take on Romans 1  Bible believing Protestants say its sin. Hard to deny what Paul said. Is Gods word regarded at all here?

The Holy Father is pretty conservative on this issue - it's love the sinner but hate the sin. And no, there is not a priest in this world who would ever marry two of the same gender. Marriage is a sacrament and it is reserved for one man and one woman. Hope that helps.

And yes, I think that Pope Francis is a bit on the liberal side, quite unlike his predecessor Pope Benedict.  But as for church teachings, he is as orthodox a catholic as there ever was.

You said hate the sin love the sinner. I have heard Prots stand on that for years. How ever it is a different story when the most powerful country in the world that is founded in Christianity to blatantly go against Gods word, and all that it clearly states is sin. Why does the pope go against Gods word being the Lords vicar to not defend and define it. Don't you think He would clearly define His position and stand up for Gods word. Yet he is silent.  Just for instance how would you define Romans 1  on the subject. or everything in Gods word that calls it abominable. 

  There is  judgment day coming. 

Will you say its just a matter of interpretation.   

Offline Catholica

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Re: Does the pope descern the times
« Reply #3 on: Wed Jul 01, 2015 - 12:55:28 »
Here is your answer, Mike, if you actually desire an answer.

http://w2.vatican.va/content/francesco/en/audiences/2015/index.html#audiences

See if you can spot the talk on defending the traditional definition of marriage and family.  This year alone its about 95% of what he has been talking about.

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Re: Does the pope descern the times
« Reply #3 on: Wed Jul 01, 2015 - 12:55:28 »

Offline Ladonia

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Re: Does the pope descern the times
« Reply #4 on: Wed Jul 01, 2015 - 14:42:18 »
What is the popes thoughts about the new Gay law. Just half to ask. How about you guys

Just a little google turns up that he is purity liberal. Do Priests marry gay Catholics? What is the take on Romans 1  Bible believing Protestants say its sin. Hard to deny what Paul said. Is Gods word regarded at all here?

The Holy Father is pretty conservative on this issue - it's love the sinner but hate the sin. And no, there is not a priest in this world who would ever marry two of the same gender. Marriage is a sacrament and it is reserved for one man and one woman. Hope that helps.

And yes, I think that Pope Francis is a bit on the liberal side, quite unlike his predecessor Pope Benedict.  But as for church teachings, he is as orthodox a catholic as there ever was.

You said hate the sin love the sinner. I have heard Prots stand on that for years. How ever it is a different story when the most powerful country in the world that is founded in Christianity to blatantly go against Gods word, and all that it clearly states is sin. Why does the pope go against Gods word being the Lords vicar to not defend and define it. Don't you think He would clearly define His position and stand up for Gods word. Yet he is silent.  Just for instance how would you define Romans 1  on the subject. or everything in Gods word that calls it abominable. 

  There is  judgment day coming. 

Will you say its just a matter of interpretation.   

I don't see where the Pope goes against God's word as it applies to Romans 1. He has consistently exhorted people to avoid sin and only seeks to be like Jesus when he attempts to be pastoral in his relationship with every human being. Sin is pointed out and his hope (the Pope's) that the person would go and sin no more. He himself said he isn't the judge of anyone here on earth, that that is only the bailiwick of our Father in heaven.

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Re: Does the pope descern the times
« Reply #4 on: Wed Jul 01, 2015 - 14:42:18 »



Offline mclees8

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Re: Does the pope descern the times
« Reply #5 on: Thu Jul 02, 2015 - 16:26:19 »
Here is your answer, Mike, if you actually desire an answer.

http://w2.vatican.va/content/francesco/en/audiences/2015/index.html#audiences

See if you can spot the talk on defending the traditional definition of marriage and family.  This year alone its about 95% of what he has been talking about.


Cath I have not the time or the inclination to read through all these lessons. Where is His reaction to scotus as to endorsing sin by not making a public statement. He believes his position as pope being the vicar of Christ and in complete agreement with the apostles and what the word of God clearly calls sin.


He did not wink at the world when he chose to condemn it for polluting the worlds air. Now he winks at this new law when gay people want to marry and have rights to bring up children. Who is he then to keep silent

Is that defining the family?

« Last Edit: Thu Jul 02, 2015 - 16:32:18 by mclees8 »

Offline Ladonia

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Re: Does the pope descern the times
« Reply #6 on: Thu Jul 02, 2015 - 18:49:21 »
Here is your answer, Mike, if you actually desire an answer.

http://w2.vatican.va/content/francesco/en/audiences/2015/index.html#audiences

See if you can spot the talk on defending the traditional definition of marriage and family.  This year alone its about 95% of what he has been talking about.






Cath I have not the time or the inclination to read through all these lessons. Where is His reaction to scotus as to endorsing sin by not making a public statement. He believes his position as pope being the vicar of Christ and in complete agreement with the apostles and what the word of God clearly calls sin.


He did not wink at the world when he chose to condemn it for polluting the worlds air. Now he winks at this new law when gay people want to marry and have rights to bring up children. Who is he then to keep silent

Is that defining the family?


The Pope has no need to address this purely internal issue of gay marriage and this specific ruling. He is already on record as supporting the traditional family unit, so what more do you want? The Bishops who are here in America are addressing this issue head on and you can be sure that they have the Holy Father's complete blessing to do this.

Offline skeeter

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Re: Does the pope descern the times
« Reply #7 on: Fri Jul 03, 2015 - 01:38:52 »
Here is your answer, Mike, if you actually desire an answer.

http://w2.vatican.va/content/francesco/en/audiences/2015/index.html#audiences

See if you can spot the talk on defending the traditional definition of marriage and family.  This year alone its about 95% of what he has been talking about.
Cath I have not the time or the inclination to read through all these lessons. Where is His reaction to scotus as to endorsing sin by not making a public statement. He believes his position as pope being the vicar of Christ and in complete agreement with the apostles and what the word of God clearly calls sin.

He did not wink at the world when he chose to condemn it for polluting the worlds air. Now he winks at this new law when gay people want to marry and have rights to bring up children. Who is he then to keep silent

Is that defining the family?
The Pope has no need to address this purely internal issue of gay marriage and this specific ruling. He is already on record as supporting the traditional family unit, so what more do you want? The Bishops who are here in America are addressing this issue head on and you can be sure that they have the Holy Father's complete blessing to do this.

what do you mean by this?

Offline Red Baker

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Re: Does the pope descern the times
« Reply #8 on: Fri Jul 03, 2015 - 05:26:35 »
Holy Father's complete blessing to do this.

That's blasphemy!  To refer to a man as a holy father, is sinful, to refer to a man as Holy Father is blasphemy!  And for a man to allow others to speak to him in that manner is only proving himself to be a man OF SIN, regardless who he may be, and what faith he may profess. 

Offline Ladonia

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Re: Does the pope descern the times
« Reply #9 on: Fri Jul 03, 2015 - 07:04:09 »
Holy Father's complete blessing to do this.

That's blasphemy!  To refer to a man as a holy father, is sinful, to refer to a man as Holy Father is blasphemy!  And for a man to allow others to speak to him in that manner is only proving himself to be a man OF SIN, regardless who he may be, and what faith he may profess.

The Scriptures are full of instances where religious leaders are referred to as "father". Was Abraham a holy man? Was St. Paul a holy man? Both of them have been likened to as a "father". It is in that sense that he is called that, not that he is in any way looked at as God, our Father in heaven. (I guess you must of missed those passages).  And yes, he is a holy man, as we all are trying to be. So the term "Holy Father" is appropriate AND NOT blasphemous in the least.
« Last Edit: Fri Jul 03, 2015 - 07:27:13 by Ladonia »

Offline Ladonia

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Re: Does the pope descern the times
« Reply #10 on: Fri Jul 03, 2015 - 07:10:15 »
Here is your answer, Mike, if you actually desire an answer.

http://w2.vatican.va/content/francesco/en/audiences/2015/index.html#audiences

See if you can spot the talk on defending the traditional definition of marriage and family.  This year alone its about 95% of what he has been talking about.
Cath I have not the time or the inclination to read through all these lessons. Where is His reaction to scotus as to endorsing sin by not making a public statement. He believes his position as pope being the vicar of Christ and in complete agreement with the apostles and what the word of God clearly calls sin.

He did not wink at the world when he chose to condemn it for polluting the worlds air. Now he winks at this new law when gay people want to marry and have rights to bring up children. Who is he then to keep silent

Is that defining the family?
The Pope has no need to address this purely internal issue of gay marriage and this specific ruling. He is already on record as supporting the traditional family unit, so what more do you want? The Bishops who are here in America are addressing this issue head on and you can be sure that they have the Holy Father's complete blessing to do this.

what do you mean by this?


The Supreme Court's ruling was a purely internal political matter with no bearing on any other countries laws. It affects only the citizens of the United States and no one else. Why does that seem so difficult for you to understand?

Offline Red Baker

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Re: Does the pope descern the times
« Reply #11 on: Fri Jul 03, 2015 - 07:41:34 »
I guess you must of missed those passages. 

Not hardly~I know them well, and also know the true biblical sense in which they are used, which you do not. 

Quote
And yes, he is a holy man, as we all are trying to be. 

He is a wicked sinner like ALL OF US are by nature.  He STILL has the old man with him, LIKE ALL OF US DO.  Every child of God, are clothed in the RIGHTEOUSNESS OF JESUS CHRIST.  We all are a HOLY SEED, just as righteous as the Son of God.  1 John 3:1-3

Quote
So the term "Holy Father" is appropriate AND NOT blasphemous in the least

It is blasphemous~and stinks to high heaven.  There is ONLY ONE who is the Holy Father, and he does not live in Rome, but fills heaven and earth!

Offline mclees8

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Re: Does the pope descern the times
« Reply #12 on: Fri Jul 03, 2015 - 07:52:36 »
Here is your answer, Mike, if you actually desire an answer.

http://w2.vatican.va/content/francesco/en/audiences/2015/index.html#audiences

See if you can spot the talk on defending the traditional definition of marriage and family.  This year alone its about 95% of what he has been talking about.
Cath I have not the time or the inclination to read through all these lessons. Where is His reaction to scotus as to endorsing sin by not making a public statement. He believes his position as pope being the vicar of Christ and in complete agreement with the apostles and what the word of God clearly calls sin.

He did not wink at the world when he chose to condemn it for polluting the worlds air. Now he winks at this new law when gay people want to marry and have rights to bring up children. Who is he then to keep silent

Is that defining the family?
The Pope has no need to address this purely internal issue of gay marriage and this specific ruling. He is already on record as supporting the traditional family unit, so what more do you want? The Bishops who are here in America are addressing this issue head on and you can be sure that they have the Holy Father's complete blessing to do this.

what do you mean by this?


The Supreme Court's ruling was a purely internal political matter with no bearing on any other countries laws. It affects only the citizens of the United States and no one else. Why does that seem so difficult for you to understand?


One thing I learned from my sin filled life was that sin is never I private matter but it always hurts others. So goes the US and so will also the world.  It is true that the church must address sin within its own congregations.  Why did he step out of that area when he addressed the green house issue. Maybe the scotus ruling was not convenient for Him. Is he not a religious political monarch that considers the world as his congregation , but now you say its just an in house issue.
« Last Edit: Sat Jul 04, 2015 - 09:45:45 by mclees8 »

Offline chosenone

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Re: Does the pope descern the times
« Reply #13 on: Fri Jul 03, 2015 - 12:42:30 »
matthew 23 v 9
And do not call anyone on earth 'father,' for you have one Father, and he is in heaven.

Offline skeeter

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Re: Does the pope descern the times
« Reply #14 on: Fri Jul 03, 2015 - 17:00:17 »
Here is your answer, Mike, if you actually desire an answer.

http://w2.vatican.va/content/francesco/en/audiences/2015/index.html#audiences

See if you can spot the talk on defending the traditional definition of marriage and family.  This year alone its about 95% of what he has been talking about.
Cath I have not the time or the inclination to read through all these lessons. Where is His reaction to scotus as to endorsing sin by not making a public statement. He believes his position as pope being the vicar of Christ and in complete agreement with the apostles and what the word of God clearly calls sin.

He did not wink at the world when he chose to condemn it for polluting the worlds air. Now he winks at this new law when gay people want to marry and have rights to bring up children. Who is he then to keep silent

Is that defining the family?
The Pope has no need to address this purely internal issue of gay marriage and this specific ruling. He is already on record as supporting the traditional family unit, so what more do you want? The Bishops who are here in America are addressing this issue head on and you can be sure that they have the Holy Father's complete blessing to do this.

what do you mean by this?

The Supreme Court's ruling was a purely internal political matter with no bearing on any other countries laws.

internal where?  internal what?

you don't think it'll have 'any bearing' on those in other countries?  they won't create unrest until they get the same law?

just political?  It only matters to Catholics in the US as something political?


It affects only the citizens of the United States and no one else.

how about all those in other countries who will now want to come here for SSM?

how about the illegals here (non citizens)?



Why does that seem so difficult for you to understand? 

see above replies...

Offline Catholica

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Re: Does the pope descern the times
« Reply #15 on: Fri Jul 03, 2015 - 17:19:13 »
Here is your answer, Mike, if you actually desire an answer.

http://w2.vatican.va/content/francesco/en/audiences/2015/index.html#audiences

See if you can spot the talk on defending the traditional definition of marriage and family.  This year alone its about 95% of what he has been talking about.


Cath I have not the time or the inclination to read through all these lessons. Where is His reaction to scotus as to endorsing sin by not making a public statement. He believes his position as pope being the vicar of Christ and in complete agreement with the apostles and what the word of God clearly calls sin.


He did not wink at the world when he chose to condemn it for polluting the worlds air. Now he winks at this new law when gay people want to marry and have rights to bring up children. Who is he then to keep silent

Is that defining the family?


Mike all you are saying is, "why doesn't the pope behave exactly as I want him to behave".  In other words you want to be pope or think that the pope should be just like you.

I guarantee that defining the family will be a major topic at the synod on the family that the pope will be attending in September in Philadelphia. America is just one country among many in the world. The pope doesn't need to behave in a knee jerk fashion. The Catholic faith is unchangeable and the Church is not threatened by the American decision to legalize so-called gay "marriage".


Offline skeeter

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Re: Does the pope descern the times
« Reply #16 on: Fri Jul 03, 2015 - 20:39:25 »
Cath I have not the time or the inclination to read through all these lessons. Where is His reaction to scotus as to endorsing sin by not making a public statement. He believes his position as pope being the vicar of Christ and in complete agreement with the apostles and what the word of God clearly calls sin.


He did not wink at the world when he chose to condemn it for polluting the worlds air. Now he winks at this new law when gay people want to marry and have rights to bring up children. Who is he then to keep silent

Is that defining the family?
Mike all you are saying is, "why doesn't the pope behave exactly as I want him to behave".  In other words you want to be pope or think that the pope should be just like you.

I guarantee that defining the family will be a major topic at the synod on the family that the pope will be attending in September in Philadelphia. America is just one country among many in the world. The pope doesn't need to behave in a knee jerk fashion. The Catholic faith is unchangeable and the Church is not threatened by the American decision to legalize so-called gay "marriage".
Really?  I doubt you even know how ridiculous that sounds.

you might be a bit quick on the draw regarding the RC changing or threatened by SSM.


Offline Ladonia

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Re: Does the pope descern the times
« Reply #17 on: Sat Jul 04, 2015 - 07:19:07 »
matthew 23 v 9
And do not call anyone on earth 'father,' for you have one Father, and he is in heaven.

And the man who impregnated your mother, by what moniker is he known as? By a simple reading of that passage, according to you it cannot be used.  It's not the word, it's what is in your head as you use it. Jesus meant it in a sense that we only have but one Father in heaven and there isn't a  orthodox believer in the world that does not agree with that assessment.
« Last Edit: Sat Jul 04, 2015 - 07:22:44 by Ladonia »

Offline Ladonia

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Re: Does the pope descern the times
« Reply #18 on: Sat Jul 04, 2015 - 07:29:59 »
Here is your answer, Mike, if you actually desire an answer.

http://w2.vatican.va/content/francesco/en/audiences/2015/index.html#audiences

See if you can spot the talk on defending the traditional definition of marriage and family.  This year alone its about 95% of what he has been talking about.
Cath I have not the time or the inclination to read through all these lessons. Where is His reaction to scotus as to endorsing sin by not making a public statement. He believes his position as pope being the vicar of Christ and in complete agreement with the apostles and what the word of God clearly calls sin.

He did not wink at the world when he chose to condemn it for polluting the worlds air. Now he winks at this new law when gay people want to marry and have rights to bring up children. Who is he then to keep silent

Is that defining the family?
The Pope has no need to address this purely internal issue of gay marriage and this specific ruling. He is already on record as supporting the traditional family unit, so what more do you want? The Bishops who are here in America are addressing this issue head on and you can be sure that they have the Holy Father's complete blessing to do this.

what do you mean by this?

The Supreme Court's ruling was a purely internal political matter with no bearing on any other countries laws.

internal where?  internal what?

you don't think it'll have 'any bearing' on those in other countries?  they won't create unrest until they get the same law?

just political?  It only matters to Catholics in the US as something political?


It affects only the citizens of the United States and no one else.

how about all those in other countries who will now want to come here for SSM?

how about the illegals here (non citizens)?



Why does that seem so difficult for you to understand? 

see above replies...


Other countries are way ahead of us with the so-called gay marriage issue. Europe has gone that way already as has Canada. The only one's who are holding out are the Muslim countries and Africa, so it's too late on that specious claim.


Offline skeeter

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Re: Does the pope descern the times
« Reply #19 on: Sat Jul 04, 2015 - 08:28:39 »
The Pope has no need to address this purely internal issue of gay marriage and this specific ruling. He is already on record as supporting the traditional family unit, so what more do you want? The Bishops who are here in America are addressing this issue head on and you can be sure that they have the Holy Father's complete blessing to do this.
what do you mean by this?
The Supreme Court's ruling was a purely internal political matter with no bearing on any other countries laws.
internal where?  internal what?

you don't think it'll have 'any bearing' on those in other countries?  they won't create unrest until they get the same law?

just political?  It only matters to Catholics in the US as something political?


It affects only the citizens of the United States and no one else.
how about all those in other countries who will now want to come here for SSM?

how about the illegals here (non citizens)?



Why does that seem so difficult for you to understand? 
see above replies...
Other countries are way ahead of us with the so-called gay marriage issue. Europe has gone that way already as has Canada. The only one's who are holding out are the Muslim countries and Africa, so it's too late on that specious claim.
all of the questions above, and that's your only reply?

Offline mclees8

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Re: Does the pope descern the times
« Reply #20 on: Sat Jul 04, 2015 - 11:05:42 »
Here is your answer, Mike, if you actually desire an answer.

http://w2.vatican.va/content/francesco/en/audiences/2015/index.html#audiences

See if you can spot the talk on defending the traditional definition of marriage and family.  This year alone its about 95% of what he has been talking about.


Cath I have not the time or the inclination to read through all these lessons. Where is His reaction to scotus as to endorsing sin by not making a public statement. He believes his position as pope being the vicar of Christ and in complete agreement with the apostles and what the word of God clearly calls sin.


He did not wink at the world when he chose to condemn it for polluting the worlds air. Now he winks at this new law when gay people want to marry and have rights to bring up children. Who is he then to keep silent

Is that defining the family?


Mike all you are saying is, "why doesn't the pope behave exactly as I want him to behave".  In other words you want to be pope or think that the pope should be just like you.

I guarantee that defining the family will be a major topic at the synod on the family that the pope will be attending in September in Philadelphia. America is just one country among many in the world. The pope doesn't need to behave in a knee jerk fashion. The Catholic faith is unchangeable and the Church is not threatened by the American decision to legalize so-called gay "marriage".


I will be one who would very interested in the synod. Will he condemn the world for its wicked choices as per God's word. Will he be bold or will he be careful as to how he stirs the water. Shall he consider the people from a religious political standpoint or will he defend God and his word with out sugar coating It. God did not sugar Coat it in Sodom and Gomorra where the people even wanted to know the angels. It matters not who excepted Gay marriage first. This is not about what I think he should say but How he respects what Gods word says. Is the world today any different when The Lord judged 2 wicked cities. It is true the church tends after its own while this world goes its way.  Who will the pope addressing at the synod, the world or just the RCC?
« Last Edit: Sat Jul 04, 2015 - 11:09:38 by mclees8 »

Offline skeeter

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Re: Does the pope descern the times
« Reply #21 on: Sat Jul 04, 2015 - 21:49:24 »
Mike all you are saying is, "why doesn't the pope behave exactly as I want him to behave".  In other words you want to be pope or think that the pope should be just like you.

I guarantee that defining the family will be a major topic at the synod on the family that the pope will be attending in September in Philadelphia. America is just one country among many in the world. The pope doesn't need to behave in a knee jerk fashion. The Catholic faith is unchangeable and the Church is not threatened by the American decision to legalize so-called gay "marriage".
I will be one who would very interested in the synod. Will he condemn the world for its wicked choices as per God's word. Will he be bold or will he be careful as to how he stirs the water. Shall he consider the people from a religious political standpoint or will he defend God and his word with out sugar coating It. God did not sugar Coat it in Sodom and Gomorra where the people even wanted to know the angels. It matters not who excepted Gay marriage first. This is not about what I think he should say but How he respects what Gods word says. Is the world today any different when The Lord judged 2 wicked cities. It is true the church tends after its own while this world goes its way.  Who will the pope addressing at the synod, the world or just the RCC?
I don't think the pope will be there... he's busy hiding Ladonia who is dodging questions...
« Last Edit: Mon Jul 06, 2015 - 13:00:55 by skeeter »

Offline Ladonia

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Re: Does the pope descern the times
« Reply #22 on: Sun Jul 05, 2015 - 06:57:40 »
The Pope has no need to address this purely internal issue of gay marriage and this specific ruling. He is already on record as supporting the traditional family unit, so what more do you want? The Bishops who are here in America are addressing this issue head on and you can be sure that they have the Holy Father's complete blessing to do this.
what do you mean by this?
The Supreme Court's ruling was a purely internal political matter with no bearing on any other countries laws.
internal where?  internal what?

you don't think it'll have 'any bearing' on those in other countries?  they won't create unrest until they get the same law?

just political?  It only matters to Catholics in the US as something political?


It affects only the citizens of the United States and no one else.
how about all those in other countries who will now want to come here for SSM?

how about the illegals here (non citizens)?



Why does that seem so difficult for you to understand? 
see above replies...
Other countries are way ahead of us with the so-called gay marriage issue. Europe has gone that way already as has Canada. The only one's who are holding out are the Muslim countries and Africa, so it's too late on that specious claim.
all of the questions above, and that's your only reply?

Let's see. I answered once, then came back and answered again. If you are not satisfied with the answers I have given there is nothing I can do.

Offline skeeter

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Re: Does the pope descern the times
« Reply #23 on: Sun Jul 05, 2015 - 12:48:02 »
The Pope has no need to address this purely internal issue of gay marriage and this specific ruling. He is already on record as supporting the traditional family unit, so what more do you want? The Bishops who are here in America are addressing this issue head on and you can be sure that they have the Holy Father's complete blessing to do this.
what do you mean by this?
The Supreme Court's ruling was a purely internal political matter with no bearing on any other countries laws.
internal where?  internal what?

you don't think it'll have 'any bearing' on those in other countries?  they won't create unrest until they get the same law?

just political?  It only matters to Catholics in the US as something political?


It affects only the citizens of the United States and no one else.
how about all those in other countries who will now want to come here for SSM?

how about the illegals here (non citizens)?



Why does that seem so difficult for you to understand? 
see above replies...
Other countries are way ahead of us with the so-called gay marriage issue. Europe has gone that way already as has Canada. The only one's who are holding out are the Muslim countries and Africa, so it's too late on that specious claim.
all of the questions above, and that's your only reply?
Let's see. I answered once, then came back and answered again.
answering a question once and then coming back and answering that question again does not equal answering all questions asked.  that's answering 1 question twice.
I asked about 7 of them...


If you are not satisfied with the answers I have given there is nothing I can do.
I'm not satisfied with a non answer - that you can do something about.  you just don't want to.  You do that often...

as for countries 'ahead' of us on SSM -  check a globe.

Offline Ladonia

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Re: Does the pope descern the times
« Reply #24 on: Mon Jul 06, 2015 - 07:51:11 »
The Pope has no need to address this purely internal issue of gay marriage and this specific ruling. He is already on record as supporting the traditional family unit, so what more do you want? The Bishops who are here in America are addressing this issue head on and you can be sure that they have the Holy Father's complete blessing to do this.
what do you mean by this?
The Supreme Court's ruling was a purely internal political matter with no bearing on any other countries laws.
internal where?  internal what?

you don't think it'll have 'any bearing' on those in other countries?  they won't create unrest until they get the same law?

just political?  It only matters to Catholics in the US as something political?


It affects only the citizens of the United States and no one else.
how about all those in other countries who will now want to come here for SSM?

how about the illegals here (non citizens)?



Why does that seem so difficult for you to understand? 
see above replies...
Other countries are way ahead of us with the so-called gay marriage issue. Europe has gone that way already as has Canada. The only one's who are holding out are the Muslim countries and Africa, so it's too late on that specious claim.
all of the questions above, and that's your only reply?
Let's see. I answered once, then came back and answered again.
answering a question once and then coming back and answering that question again does not equal answering all questions asked.  that's answering 1 question twice.
I asked about 7 of them...


If you are not satisfied with the answers I have given there is nothing I can do.
I'm not satisfied with a non answer - that you can do something about.  you just don't want to.  You do that often...

as for countries 'ahead' of us on SSM -  check a globe.

I feel that my answers are good enough and it is up to you to accept them or reject them. You choose to reject them and that is your business.

I reject the assertion that the Pope can do any more on the subject of so-called same sex marriage or that the recent Supreme Court ruling has a great bearing on the decisions of other countries regarding this issue. What happens from this point on is up to them and their legislative processes. And legally, this decision only affects the citizens of, or any immigrants actually here, in these United States. Now that is the reality - now deal with it.
« Last Edit: Mon Jul 06, 2015 - 07:54:15 by Ladonia »

Offline mclees8

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Re: Does the pope descern the times
« Reply #25 on: Mon Jul 06, 2015 - 10:36:59 »
The Pope has no need to address this purely internal issue of gay marriage and this specific ruling. He is already on record as supporting the traditional family unit, so what more do you want? The Bishops who are here in America are addressing this issue head on and you can be sure that they have the Holy Father's complete blessing to do this.
what do you mean by this?
The Supreme Court's ruling was a purely internal political matter with no bearing on any other countries laws.
internal where?  internal what?

you don't think it'll have 'any bearing' on those in other countries?  they won't create unrest until they get the same law?

just political?  It only matters to Catholics in the US as something political?


It affects only the citizens of the United States and no one else.
how about all those in other countries who will now want to come here for SSM?

how about the illegals here (non citizens)?



Why does that seem so difficult for you to understand? 
see above replies...
Other countries are way ahead of us with the so-called gay marriage issue. Europe has gone that way already as has Canada. The only one's who are holding out are the Muslim countries and Africa, so it's too late on that specious claim.
all of the questions above, and that's your only reply?
Let's see. I answered once, then came back and answered again.
answering a question once and then coming back and answering that question again does not equal answering all questions asked.  that's answering 1 question twice.
I asked about 7 of them...


If you are not satisfied with the answers I have given there is nothing I can do.
I'm not satisfied with a non answer - that you can do something about.  you just don't want to.  You do that often...

as for countries 'ahead' of us on SSM -  check a globe.

I feel that my answers are good enough and it is up to you to accept them or reject them. You choose to reject them and that is your business.

I reject the assertion that the Pope can do any more on the subject of so-called same sex marriage or that the recent Supreme Court ruling has a great bearing on the decisions of other countries regarding this issue. What happens from this point on is up to them and their legislative processes. And legally, this decision only affects the citizens of, or any immigrants actually here, in these United States. Now that is the reality - now deal with it.

Here is the real issue. I would not expect that the pope would sound any trumpet to call the world on the floor for going against Gods word and call it sin, because the papacy sleeps with Babylon and deeply involved with the politics of this world. He can address the UN but not to call it to the floor for its sin. So convenient that you say now  its only a matter of the church and not the world. The pope can chastise the world for pollution and greed. but now  blatant sin is not an issue to address the world but only in house church matter  Such hypocrisy I have never known. 

Offline skeeter

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Re: Does the pope descern the times
« Reply #26 on: Mon Jul 06, 2015 - 13:08:48 »
I feel that my answers are good enough and it is up to you to accept them or reject them. You choose to reject them and that is your business.

I reject the assertion that the Pope can do any more on the subject of so-called same sex marriage or that the recent Supreme Court ruling has a great bearing on the decisions of other countries regarding this issue. What happens from this point on is up to them and their legislative processes. And legally, this decision only affects the citizens of, or any immigrants actually here, in these United States. Now that is the reality - now deal with it.
there were no answers to accept or reject.

some are willing to 'settle' with just 'good enough'.

Offline Catholica

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Re: Does the pope descern the times
« Reply #27 on: Mon Jul 06, 2015 - 14:14:55 »
This is for anyone who might claim that the Pope is "liberal" when it comes to the definition of marriage, emphasis mine:

From
ADDRESS OF HIS HOLINESS POPE FRANCIS
TO PARTICIPANTS IN THE INTERNATIONAL COLLOQUIUM
ON THE COMPLEMENTARITY BETWEEN MAN AND WOMAN
SPONSORED BY THE CONGREGATION FOR THE DOCTRINE OF THE FAITH

Synod Hall
Monday, 17 November 2014
Quote
3. It is necessary to insist on the fundamental pillars that govern a nation: its intangible assets. The family is the foundation of co-existence and a guarantee against social fragmentation. Children have a right to grow up in a family with a father and a mother capable of creating a suitable environment for the child's growth and emotional development. This is why, in the Apostolic Exhortation Evangelii Gaudium, I stressed the “indispensable” contribution of marriage to society, a contribution which “transcends the feelings and momentary needs of the couple” (n. 66). And this is why I am grateful to you for the emphasis that your colloquium has placed on the benefits that marriage can provide children, the spouses themselves, and society.

In these days, as you reflect on the complementarity between man and woman, I urge you to emphasize yet another truth about marriage: that the permanent commitment to solidarity, fidelity and fruitful love responds to the deepest longings of the human heart. Let us think especially of the young people who represent our future: it is important that they should not let the harmful mentality of the temporary affect them, but rather that they be revolutionaries with the courage to seek strong and lasting love, in other words, to go against the current: this must be done. I would like to say one thing about this: we must not fall into the trap of being limited by ideological concepts. The family is an anthropological fact, and consequently a social, cultural fact, etc. We cannot qualify it with ideological concepts which are compelling at only one moment in history, and then decline. Today there can be no talk of the conservative family or the progressive family: family is family! Do not allow yourselves to be qualified by this, or by other ideological concepts. The family has a force of its own.

May this colloquium be a source of inspiration for all who seek to support and strengthen the union of man and woman in marriage as a unique, natural, fundamental and beautiful good for people, families, communities and societies.

In the same context I would like to confirm that, God willing, I will go to Philadelphia in September 2015 for the Eighth World Meeting of Families.



Don't be fooled by the liberal media: Pope Francis is no "liberal" when it comes to defining family as that of being anything but between one man and one woman.
« Last Edit: Mon Jul 06, 2015 - 14:28:20 by Catholica »

Offline mclees8

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Re: Does the pope descern the times
« Reply #28 on: Mon Jul 06, 2015 - 17:58:06 »
This is for anyone who might claim that the Pope is "liberal" when it comes to the definition of marriage, emphasis mine:

From
ADDRESS OF HIS HOLINESS POPE FRANCIS
TO PARTICIPANTS IN THE INTERNATIONAL COLLOQUIUM
ON THE COMPLEMENTARITY BETWEEN MAN AND WOMAN
SPONSORED BY THE CONGREGATION FOR THE DOCTRINE OF THE FAITH

Synod Hall
Monday, 17 November 2014
Quote
3. It is necessary to insist on the fundamental pillars that govern a nation: its intangible assets. The family is the foundation of co-existence and a guarantee against social fragmentation. Children have a right to grow up in a family with a father and a mother capable of creating a suitable environment for the child's growth and emotional development. This is why, in the Apostolic Exhortation Evangelii Gaudium, I stressed the “indispensable” contribution of marriage to society, a contribution which “transcends the feelings and momentary needs of the couple” (n. 66). And this is why I am grateful to you for the emphasis that your colloquium has placed on the benefits that marriage can provide children, the spouses themselves, and society.

In these days, as you reflect on the complementarity between man and woman, I urge you to emphasize yet another truth about marriage: that the permanent commitment to solidarity, fidelity and fruitful love responds to the deepest longings of the human heart. Let us think especially of the young people who represent our future: it is important that they should not let the harmful mentality of the temporary affect them, but rather that they be revolutionaries with the courage to seek strong and lasting love, in other words, to go against the current: this must be done. I would like to say one thing about this: we must not fall into the trap of being limited by ideological concepts. The family is an anthropological fact, and consequently a social, cultural fact, etc. We cannot qualify it with ideological concepts which are compelling at only one moment in history, and then decline. Today there can be no talk of the conservative family or the progressive family: family is family! Do not allow yourselves to be qualified by this, or by other ideological concepts. The family has a force of its own.

May this colloquium be a source of inspiration for all who seek to support and strengthen the union of man and woman in marriage as a unique, natural, fundamental and beautiful good for people, families, communities and societies.

In the same context I would like to confirm that, God willing, I will go to Philadelphia in September 2015 for the Eighth World Meeting of Families.



Don't be fooled by the liberal media: Pope Francis is no "liberal" when it comes to defining family as that of being anything but between one man and one woman.


Does the pope set the standard for the world as well as the church? Who will be at this world meeting of the family. Will world dignitary's be there.  will it be open to the public with its gay Lobbies.  I think it will be very interesting.  Will he stand and claim that the church cannot marry gays and defy the laws of the land?  Is the church ready for persecution.  This was from 2014 but  its a whole new ball game in 2015 .
« Last Edit: Tue Jul 07, 2015 - 02:55:19 by mclees8 »

Offline Catholica

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Re: Does the pope descern the times
« Reply #29 on: Tue Jul 07, 2015 - 07:44:20 »
This is for anyone who might claim that the Pope is "liberal" when it comes to the definition of marriage, emphasis mine:

From
ADDRESS OF HIS HOLINESS POPE FRANCIS
TO PARTICIPANTS IN THE INTERNATIONAL COLLOQUIUM
ON THE COMPLEMENTARITY BETWEEN MAN AND WOMAN
SPONSORED BY THE CONGREGATION FOR THE DOCTRINE OF THE FAITH

Synod Hall
Monday, 17 November 2014
Quote
3. It is necessary to insist on the fundamental pillars that govern a nation: its intangible assets. The family is the foundation of co-existence and a guarantee against social fragmentation. Children have a right to grow up in a family with a father and a mother capable of creating a suitable environment for the child's growth and emotional development. This is why, in the Apostolic Exhortation Evangelii Gaudium, I stressed the “indispensable” contribution of marriage to society, a contribution which “transcends the feelings and momentary needs of the couple” (n. 66). And this is why I am grateful to you for the emphasis that your colloquium has placed on the benefits that marriage can provide children, the spouses themselves, and society.

In these days, as you reflect on the complementarity between man and woman, I urge you to emphasize yet another truth about marriage: that the permanent commitment to solidarity, fidelity and fruitful love responds to the deepest longings of the human heart. Let us think especially of the young people who represent our future: it is important that they should not let the harmful mentality of the temporary affect them, but rather that they be revolutionaries with the courage to seek strong and lasting love, in other words, to go against the current: this must be done. I would like to say one thing about this: we must not fall into the trap of being limited by ideological concepts. The family is an anthropological fact, and consequently a social, cultural fact, etc. We cannot qualify it with ideological concepts which are compelling at only one moment in history, and then decline. Today there can be no talk of the conservative family or the progressive family: family is family! Do not allow yourselves to be qualified by this, or by other ideological concepts. The family has a force of its own.

May this colloquium be a source of inspiration for all who seek to support and strengthen the union of man and woman in marriage as a unique, natural, fundamental and beautiful good for people, families, communities and societies.

In the same context I would like to confirm that, God willing, I will go to Philadelphia in September 2015 for the Eighth World Meeting of Families.



Don't be fooled by the liberal media: Pope Francis is no "liberal" when it comes to defining family as that of being anything but between one man and one woman.


Does the pope set the standard for the world as well as the church?


No, God set the standard for the world in the beginning.  The Pope is merely carries forward that teaching and proclaims it to the world.

Who will be at this world meeting of the family. Will world dignitary's be there.  will it be open to the public with its gay Lobbies.


This article provides the answers to these questions:

http://ncronline.org/news/vatican/chaput-gay-families-are-welcome-world-meeting-families-lobbying-isnt

I think it will be very interesting.  Will he stand and claim that the church cannot marry gays and defy the laws of the land?  Is the church ready for persecution.  This was from 2014 but  its a whole new ball game in 2015 .


We'll see exactly what he says, but it should be interesting.  Of course the fact of unchangeable Church teaching is that the Catholic Church cannot marry people of the same sex, because marriages are made by God and God will not join together people of the same sex, and the Catholic Church makes that known to the world.

Against whom do the gay lobbies direct their most vile hate?  Against the Catholic Church, of course, because they believe that the Catholic Church is it's most stalwart opponent.  In reality God himself is their most stalwart opponent, but that is reflected in the Catholic Church, because God is the founder and sustainer of the Catholic Church and the teachings which He gave and the Church preserves.

Offline mclees8

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Re: Does the pope descern the times
« Reply #30 on: Tue Jul 07, 2015 - 10:09:08 »
This is for anyone who might claim that the Pope is "liberal" when it comes to the definition of marriage, emphasis mine:

From
ADDRESS OF HIS HOLINESS POPE FRANCIS
TO PARTICIPANTS IN THE INTERNATIONAL COLLOQUIUM
ON THE COMPLEMENTARITY BETWEEN MAN AND WOMAN
SPONSORED BY THE CONGREGATION FOR THE DOCTRINE OF THE FAITH

Synod Hall
Monday, 17 November 2014
Quote
3. It is necessary to insist on the fundamental pillars that govern a nation: its intangible assets. The family is the foundation of co-existence and a guarantee against social fragmentation. Children have a right to grow up in a family with a father and a mother capable of creating a suitable environment for the child's growth and emotional development. This is why, in the Apostolic Exhortation Evangelii Gaudium, I stressed the “indispensable” contribution of marriage to society, a contribution which “transcends the feelings and momentary needs of the couple” (n. 66). And this is why I am grateful to you for the emphasis that your colloquium has placed on the benefits that marriage can provide children, the spouses themselves, and society.

In these days, as you reflect on the complementarity between man and woman, I urge you to emphasize yet another truth about marriage: that the permanent commitment to solidarity, fidelity and fruitful love responds to the deepest longings of the human heart. Let us think especially of the young people who represent our future: it is important that they should not let the harmful mentality of the temporary affect them, but rather that they be revolutionaries with the courage to seek strong and lasting love, in other words, to go against the current: this must be done. I would like to say one thing about this: we must not fall into the trap of being limited by ideological concepts. The family is an anthropological fact, and consequently a social, cultural fact, etc. We cannot qualify it with ideological concepts which are compelling at only one moment in history, and then decline. Today there can be no talk of the conservative family or the progressive family: family is family! Do not allow yourselves to be qualified by this, or by other ideological concepts. The family has a force of its own.

May this colloquium be a source of inspiration for all who seek to support and strengthen the union of man and woman in marriage as a unique, natural, fundamental and beautiful good for people, families, communities and societies.

In the same context I would like to confirm that, God willing, I will go to Philadelphia in September 2015 for the Eighth World Meeting of Families.



Don't be fooled by the liberal media: Pope Francis is no "liberal" when it comes to defining family as that of being anything but between one man and one woman.


Does the pope set the standard for the world as well as the church?


No, God set the standard for the world in the beginning.  The Pope is merely carries forward that teaching and proclaims it to the world.

Who will be at this world meeting of the family. Will world dignitary's be there.  will it be open to the public with its gay Lobbies.


This article provides the answers to these questions:

http://ncronline.org/news/vatican/chaput-gay-families-are-welcome-world-meeting-families-lobbying-isnt

I think it will be very interesting.  Will he stand and claim that the church cannot marry gays and defy the laws of the land?  Is the church ready for persecution.  This was from 2014 but  its a whole new ball game in 2015 .


We'll see exactly what he says, but it should be interesting.  Of course the fact of unchangeable Church teaching is that the Catholic Church cannot marry people of the same sex, because marriages are made by God and God will not join together people of the same sex, and the Catholic Church makes that known to the world.

Against whom do the gay lobbies direct their most vile hate?  Against the Catholic Church, of course, because they believe that the Catholic Church is it's most stalwart opponent.  In reality God himself is their most stalwart opponent, but that is reflected in the Catholic Church, because God is the founder and sustainer of the Catholic Church and the teachings which He gave and the Church preserves.


So much yet to see but thanks for posting that Catholica. The Catholic church is not the only opponent but a large majority of the Protestant churches as well. After all God does not see Protestant or Catholic nor is he a respecter of men or color of skin or nation and tongue. Those who appose Gods perfect will for the family stand against God so who is the church to address Babylon the foremost opponent of Gods perfect will for man. And what is it that they appose but Christ.  Our president on the day that SCOTUS  ruled made a personal phone call to a gay rights fighter to congratulate him for his victory . This same president stood as A Christian when he took his first term. Within a couple of hours he was in Charleston singing Amazing Grace being  one of our most beloved gospel songs in a church that I believe still upholds Gods word concerning the gay life style being  sin. What is happening that the church should be counted as being in the same house that resists the light. What communion does the pope have with Babylon ( UN ) to address it and those who do not love Christ but love the darkness and causes  the world to walk in darkness except it should repent and believe upon Christ

Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness? 15 And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel? 16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. 17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you, 18 And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.
 2 Co 6:14-18

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 The same was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. 4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.   Jn 1:1-5



 
« Last Edit: Tue Jul 07, 2015 - 12:41:08 by mclees8 »

Offline mclees8

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Re: Does the pope descern the times
« Reply #31 on: Wed Jul 08, 2015 - 10:45:20 »
« Last Edit: Wed Jul 08, 2015 - 11:07:20 by mclees8 »

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Re: Does the pope descern the times
« Reply #32 on: Wed Jul 08, 2015 - 11:05:31 »

Listen the words of this song   

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=4zLfCnGVeL4


The Sound of Silence Songfacts


Lyrics

(Sic)"I think about songs that it's not just what the words say but what the melody says and what the sound says. My thinking is that if you don't have the right melody, it really doesn't matter what you have to say, people don't hear it. They only are available to hear when the sound entrances and makes people open to the thought. Really the key to 'The Sound of Silence' is the simplicity of the melody and the words, which are youthful alienation. It's a young lyric, but not bad for a 21-year-old. It's not a sophisticated thought, but a thought that I gathered from some college reading material or something. It wasn't something that I was experiencing at some deep, profound level - nobody's listening to me, nobody's listening to anyone - it was a post-adolescent angst, but it had some level of truth to it and it resonated with millions of people. Largely because it had a simple and singable melody."  "

Offline mclees8

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Re: Does the pope descern the times
« Reply #33 on: Wed Jul 08, 2015 - 11:15:19 »

Listen the words of this song   

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=4zLfCnGVeL4


The Sound of Silence Songfacts


Lyrics

(Sic)"I think about songs that it's not just what the words say but what the melody says and what the sound says. My thinking is that if you don't have the right melody, it really doesn't matter what you have to say, people don't hear it. They only are available to hear when the sound entrances and makes people open to the thought. Really the key to 'The Sound of Silence' is the simplicity of the melody and the words, which are youthful alienation. It's a young lyric, but not bad for a 21-year-old. It's not a sophisticated thought, but a thought that I gathered from some college reading material or something. It wasn't something that I was experiencing at some deep, profound level - nobody's listening to me, nobody's listening to anyone - it was a post-adolescent angst, but it had some level of truth to it and it resonated with millions of people. Largely because it had a simple and singable melody."  "



I love the song but to me the song sings of apathy.   and that is very sad since it resonates in what I feel here

Offline Catholica

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Re: Does the pope descern the times
« Reply #34 on: Wed Jul 08, 2015 - 12:33:55 »
I'm not sure what your problem with the thread is now, Mike.  Haven't I dealt with the accusations you made?  The Church has, is, and always will be a staunch defender of the only true marriage which is only between one man and one woman.

In fact, this fact is tightly coupled to a root of our theology, which is that the relationship between a man an a woman mysteriously symbolizes the relationship between Jesus and His bride, the Church.

This is so fundamental in Catholic belief that if the Church were ever to accept so-called "same-sex" marriage, the beliefs would no longer resemble anything that is Catholic.  And so it will never happen.

As to whether the Pope needs to come out "John the Baptist style" and issue condemnations about what America is doing with regard to this issue is a matter of pure opinion.  Perhaps you would like it to be that way, but would America listen, and what really could they do?

What good would the Pope coming out and blatantly condemning so-called gay marriage do?  Faithful Catholics already hold that view.  Unfaithful Catholics and non-Catholics in general ignore the Pope.  Those who already believe in one man one woman marriage would cheer the pope's words while those who do not would jeer them.  And as for the majority of Americans who see the pope as nothing more than a man in a dress or perhaps a curiosity, they would simply turn a blind ear to his words or, being deaf already, wouldn't be morally impacted by the weight of such a delivery.

The way that we are going to be able to change this in America is for faithful Christians to return to penance and prayer. We will need that strengthening in faith that penance and prayer provide by the grace of God to overcome this and return to God's established order.   If there is one thing that I believe that the Pope should do is provide a catechesis on and a strong call for the return to penance and prayer.  And naturally prayer leads to action, and that could mean being active in government and other organizations which would have a political bent to them.  That is how stuff gets done in a democracy.  The counterattack needs to be both spiritual and tangible, but invisible and visible.  To change people and cultures, who are both spiritual and tangible, you need to do both.

Either way we are going to prepare for a persecution. America is going to endure a long trial of suffering that will certainly come from this chapter of the American experiment before it sees the error of its ways.  But for that to happen we are going to need some martyrs: witnesses for the truth of God, who are prepared to suffer and sometimes die for the cause of truth.

Putting so much emphasis on "What will the Pope do or say?" is very shortsighted and frankly, naive.  The wider world is already bathed in so many sins, of which one more country accepting so-called "gay marriage" is not even the greatest.  The pope is not a magician who can wave his pen and cause people everywhere to revile their sinful ways.

Perhaps, Mike, you could turn all that energy you have for attacking the Pope and the Church and turn it into making a real difference in the world by joining the cause of prayer and penance and action to overturn these sinful strongholds in this fallen culture. Otherwise you are just a distraction for Catholics in this forum away from the real work that needs to be done.