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Offline allfhm

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How to get into heaven?
« on: Sun Oct 18, 2015 - 17:23:18 »
I'm not a Catholic, but I sure hope people are getting lead to heaven by Catholic's since there are so many Catholics in this world.  I'm concerned that many people are being led away from heaven by Catholics though. 

You can't earn your way to heaven.

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How to get into heaven?
« on: Sun Oct 18, 2015 - 17:23:18 »

Offline Ladonia

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Re: How to get into heaven?
« Reply #1 on: Sun Oct 18, 2015 - 17:49:57 »
I'm not a Catholic, but I sure hope people are getting lead to heaven by Catholic's since there are so many Catholics in this world.  I'm concerned that many people are being led away from heaven by Catholics though. 

You can't earn your way to heaven.

We Catholics of course know that. It's not just one thing that get's one into heaven, but the full plate of the Christian experience. There is having faith that Jesus is indeed the Savior, but then there are works that must go along with that faith. I am sure you have heard the term "faith without works is dead"?

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Re: How to get into heaven?
« Reply #1 on: Sun Oct 18, 2015 - 17:49:57 »

Offline kensington

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Re: How to get into heaven?
« Reply #2 on: Sun Oct 18, 2015 - 22:15:38 »
If you are saved by the blood and have not one good work to your tally when you die, you will still go to Heaven.  Salvation and Heaven is bound to the blood of Jesus, NOT the works you do after you are saved.

Those are accounted for rewards, not salvation.  That's a terrible teaching. It is the ONE THING that grants us salvation. Many a saved/forgiven person did not have works to their account or a "Full Plate" of the Christian experience when they went to Heaven. 

« Last Edit: Sun Oct 18, 2015 - 22:19:39 by kensington »

Offline allfhm

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Re: How to get into heaven?
« Reply #3 on: Mon Oct 19, 2015 - 00:29:13 »
If you are saved by the blood and have not one good work to your tally when you die, you will still go to Heaven.  Salvation and Heaven is bound to the blood of Jesus, NOT the works you do after you are saved.

Those are accounted for rewards, not salvation.  That's a terrible teaching. It is the ONE THING that grants us salvation. Many a saved/forgiven person did not have works to their account or a "Full Plate" of the Christian experience when they went to Heaven.

It sounds like you're saying Jesus's sacrifice alone isn't enough to save us?

Then Catholics will say that it is possible for a Muslim who continues to be a Muslim until they die to end up in heaven?

It sounds like Catholics are saying even if you don't believe Jesus is the savior, but you are a good enough person you can go to heaven.



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Re: How to get into heaven?
« Reply #3 on: Mon Oct 19, 2015 - 00:29:13 »

Offline skeeter

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Re: How to get into heaven?
« Reply #4 on: Mon Oct 19, 2015 - 02:10:20 »
If you are saved by the blood and have not one good work to your tally when you die, you will still go to Heaven.  Salvation and Heaven is bound to the blood of Jesus, NOT the works you do after you are saved.

Those are accounted for rewards, not salvation.  That's a terrible teaching. It is the ONE THING that grants us salvation. Many a saved/forgiven person did not have works to their account or a "Full Plate" of the Christian experience when they went to Heaven.
yes, that's what the word of God says - but, not what catholics teach / believe.
1 Cor 3 speaks to this, that if our works are burned up we still will go to heaven, it's rewards we lose.  however, Catholics insist these verses are about purgatory - tho, it clearly states 'rewards'.  It doesn't speak of sin.

I have no  idea what the "Full Plate" of the Christian experience even is or what they think it is!

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Re: How to get into heaven?
« Reply #4 on: Mon Oct 19, 2015 - 02:10:20 »



Offline skeeter

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Re: How to get into heaven?
« Reply #5 on: Mon Oct 19, 2015 - 02:13:39 »
If you are saved by the blood and have not one good work to your tally when you die, you will still go to Heaven.  Salvation and Heaven is bound to the blood of Jesus, NOT the works you do after you are saved.

Those are accounted for rewards, not salvation.  That's a terrible teaching. It is the ONE THING that grants us salvation. Many a saved/forgiven person did not have works to their account or a "Full Plate" of the Christian experience when they went to Heaven.

It sounds like you're saying Jesus's sacrifice alone isn't enough to save us?

Then Catholics will say that it is possible for a Muslim who continues to be a Muslim until they die to end up in heaven?

It sounds like Catholics are saying even if you don't believe Jesus is the savior, but you are a good enough person you can go to heaven.

no, that's exactly NOT what Kensington said.

Offline wincam

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Re: How to get into heaven?
« Reply #6 on: Mon Oct 19, 2015 - 06:40:43 »
actually what Catholics believe or at least are supposed to believe is that we are not rewarded with heaven because of good works but will be rewarded in heaven - there is a difference that makes all the difference - wincam

Offline wincam

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Re: How to get into heaven?
« Reply #7 on: Mon Oct 19, 2015 - 06:53:38 »
I'm not a Catholic, but I sure hope people are getting lead to heaven by Catholic's since there are so many Catholics in this world.  I'm concerned that many people are being led away from heaven by Catholics though. 

You can't earn your way to heaven.


we have been told and it seems provision has also been made lest we forget and it seems rightly because we do  - it seems everything that is written or espoused is to remind us to simply simply believe [Jn.20:31] which according to Jesus is simply simply very difficult if well nigh almost simply simply impossible for adults - wincam

Offline Catholica

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Re: How to get into heaven?
« Reply #8 on: Mon Oct 19, 2015 - 08:20:03 »
You can't earn your way to heaven.

Amen to that.  That's what the Catholic Church teaches.

Council of Trent, Canon 1.
If anyone says that man can be justified before God by his own works, whether done by his own natural powers or through the teaching of the law, without divine grace through Jesus Christ, let him be anathema.

Offline Catholica

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Re: How to get into heaven?
« Reply #9 on: Mon Oct 19, 2015 - 08:28:44 »
It sounds like you're saying Jesus's sacrifice alone isn't enough to save us?

Are you a universalist?  If not, then why not?

Then Catholics will say that it is possible for a Muslim who continues to be a Muslim until they die to end up in heaven?

What must a Muslim do, aka "add" to Christ's work, to be saved?

It sounds like Catholics are saying even if you don't believe Jesus is the savior, but you are a good enough person you can go to heaven.

If you haven't been told that Jesus is the savior, how can you believe that He is?  Do you believe that people who are never taught that fact must somehow come to know it by their own natural means?  Do you believe that God created these persons knowingly giving them no chance to know him and so consigning them to an eternity of hellfire?


Offline allfhm

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Re: How to get into heaven?
« Reply #10 on: Mon Oct 19, 2015 - 12:45:18 »
It sounds like you're saying Jesus's sacrifice alone isn't enough to save us?

Are you a universalist?  If not, then why not?

Then Catholics will say that it is possible for a Muslim who continues to be a Muslim until they die to end up in heaven?

What must a Muslim do, aka "add" to Christ's work, to be saved?

It sounds like Catholics are saying even if you don't believe Jesus is the savior, but you are a good enough person you can go to heaven.

If you haven't been told that Jesus is the savior, how can you believe that He is?  Do you believe that people who are never taught that fact must somehow come to know it by their own natural means?  Do you believe that God created these persons knowingly giving them no chance to know him and so consigning them to an eternity of hellfire?

I believe the reasons and ways of God are far too complicated for you or I to understand. 

Personally, I believe people that never hear about salvation through Jesus, that those people would of said no to Jesus.  God knowing this placed them in areas of the world that they would never hear the salvation message.

Besides that the bible says no person has an excuse. 

romans 1:20
For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities--his eternal power and divine nature--have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.


then start reading at romans 9:6



Offline Charlie24

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Re: How to get into heaven?
« Reply #11 on: Mon Oct 19, 2015 - 13:01:27 »
I'm not a Catholic, but I sure hope people are getting lead to heaven by Catholic's since there are so many Catholics in this world.  I'm concerned that many people are being led away from heaven by Catholics though. 

You can't earn your way to heaven.

We Catholics of course know that. It's not just one thing that get's one into heaven, but the full plate of the Christian experience. There is having faith that Jesus is indeed the Savior, but then there are works that must go along with that faith. I am sure you have heard the term "faith without works is dead"?

With all due respect Ladonia, what did James mean by "faith without works is dead? You have placed James and Paul at odds with one another in your interpretation. James and Paul are not at odds. There are no works whatsoever involved in justification, works follow justification. This is where the Catholic faith is so very wrong.

Offline Catholica

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Re: How to get into heaven?
« Reply #12 on: Mon Oct 19, 2015 - 13:18:52 »
It sounds like you're saying Jesus's sacrifice alone isn't enough to save us?

Are you a universalist?  If not, then why not?

Then Catholics will say that it is possible for a Muslim who continues to be a Muslim until they die to end up in heaven?

What must a Muslim do, aka "add" to Christ's work, to be saved?

It sounds like Catholics are saying even if you don't believe Jesus is the savior, but you are a good enough person you can go to heaven.

If you haven't been told that Jesus is the savior, how can you believe that He is?  Do you believe that people who are never taught that fact must somehow come to know it by their own natural means?  Do you believe that God created these persons knowingly giving them no chance to know him and so consigning them to an eternity of hellfire?

I believe the reasons and ways of God are far too complicated for you or I to understand. 

In other words, you can't answer the questions?

Personally, I believe people that never hear about salvation through Jesus, that those people would of said no to Jesus.  God knowing this placed them in areas of the world that they would never hear the salvation message.

That's a fine opinion, but not one that should leave you to condemn others who believe that it is possible for them to still be saved because of Jesus' sacrifice and His redemption of the human race.  We believe that, IF they are saved, it is STILL through Jesus.

Besides that the bible says no person has an excuse. 

romans 1:20
For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities--his eternal power and divine nature--have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.


then start reading at romans 9:6

This verse (Romans 1:20) only shows that people can recognize that a creator God exists through natural revelation.  Jesus Christ's divinity is not natural revelation, but supernatural revelation, which means that people can only know about Jesus by others witnessing of Him at this point.  That God became man is not natural revelation. 

People are without excuse to know the existence of God even if they haven't heard of Jesus.  That means that even non-Christians can recognize that they have a conscience, which is God-given, and they can obey it.

Romans 9 says this also:

14 What then shall we say? Is God unjust? Not at all! 15 For he says to Moses,
“I will have mercy on whom I have mercy,
    and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.”

God is sovereign and will have mercy on whom he chooses to have mercy, and that includes non-Jews (gentiles, including pagans).

Offline allfhm

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Re: How to get into heaven?
« Reply #13 on: Mon Oct 19, 2015 - 13:32:51 »
Catholica-  If people can go to heaven without hearing the Jesus's message of salvation then there is no point in witnessing.   

If a person hears the salvation message of Jesus and believes in Jesus then someone kills them immediately after does that person go to heaven?

If a person hears the salvation message and dies 50 years later, how many good works do they need to do to get into heaven? 

Offline allfhm

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Re: How to get into heaven?
« Reply #14 on: Mon Oct 19, 2015 - 13:39:35 »
After someone believes in Jesus, how many good things must they do to get into heaven?

Offline Catholica

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Re: How to get into heaven?
« Reply #15 on: Mon Oct 19, 2015 - 13:42:20 »
After someone believes in Jesus, how many good things must they do to get into heaven?

They only need to be baptized, and this is not a work they do themselves.  So strictly speaking, zero. 

Offline allfhm

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Re: How to get into heaven?
« Reply #16 on: Mon Oct 19, 2015 - 13:45:46 »
After someone believes in Jesus, how many good things must they do to get into heaven?

They only need to be baptized, and this is not a work they do themselves.  So strictly speaking, zero.

John baptised in water, but Jesus baptized in what?

The criminal on the cross next to Jesus was not baptized in physical water, but yet went to paradise with Jesus.   

When you say physical water is a requirement of salvation you are saying that Jesus's sacrifice wasn't enough.

Offline allfhm

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Re: How to get into heaven?
« Reply #17 on: Mon Oct 19, 2015 - 13:49:25 »
When Jesus was physically baptized in water, so were anyone who believed in him.

We are the righteous of God in Christ (Messiah)

Meaning that we are saved, because of Jesus's righteousness.  Meaning Jesus fulfilled the law and we fulfill the law through him.

Offline Catholica

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Re: How to get into heaven?
« Reply #18 on: Mon Oct 19, 2015 - 13:50:27 »
Catholica-  If people can go to heaven without hearing the Jesus's message of salvation then there is no point in witnessing.   

Being theoretically able to be judged worthy for heaven is altogether different from actually going to heaven.  I would say that if people who didn't hear Jesus' message all went to heaven then, as long as their goal is a selfish "How do I get to heaven?" then you would be correct.

However Jesus wants more for us than to be our meal ticket to enter heaven.  He wants to draw us close to himself so that we can become more like Him and perfect us so that we can take part in his divine life.  That's the good news.  And to do that, to enter into that beatitude of becoming like Christ, we have to know him.

In other words the plan for God for man is not simply a wish that each man would be there in heaven someday, but rather that each man become perfect and molded into the likeness of his son.  Which was an important reason why Jesus became flesh.

Quote
If a person hears the salvation message of Jesus and believes in Jesus then someone kills them immediately after does that person go to heaven?

We believe so, yes.  That would be a baptism of desire, in Catholic terms. 

Quote
If a person hears the salvation message and dies 50 years later, how many good works do they need to do to get into heaven?

That question is only asked by people who love themselves more than they love God.  No Christian who believes in keeping the commandments, who loves God, asks how many he must do.  He just wants to do them because of the love he has for God and neighbor.

Offline Catholica

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Re: How to get into heaven?
« Reply #19 on: Mon Oct 19, 2015 - 13:55:23 »
After someone believes in Jesus, how many good things must they do to get into heaven?

They only need to be baptized, and this is not a work they do themselves.  So strictly speaking, zero.

John baptised in water, but Jesus baptized in what?

Jesus baptized through the apostles, who baptized in water, and through that baptism, they received the Holy Spirit who justified them, making them into adopted sons of God, who (like Jesus) the Father says of them: "behold my sons and daughters with whom I am well pleased".

Quote
The criminal on the cross next to Jesus was not baptized in physical water, but yet went to paradise with Jesus.   

You don't know that he wasn't baptized.  However though God has bound himself to the sacraments as a means of grace, He is not bound by the sacraments and can work outside them when He chooses to.

Quote
When you say physical water is a requirement of salvation you are saying that Jesus's sacrifice wasn't enough.

No, rather, the baptism is an entering INTO Jesus' death and resurrection, and if it were not because Jesus' resurrection made it so, baptism would do nothing.

1 Peter 3:21
21 and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also—not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a clear conscience toward God. It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ, 22 who has gone into heaven and is at God’s right hand—with angels, authorities and powers in submission to him.

Jesus died 2000 years ago.  Do you believe that you were born saved?  Why do you insist that a person must believe?  By that same measure of which you speak of baptism, a person then "adds" to Jesus' work on the cross by choosing to believe, does he not?  One second, man, not saved.  Next moment, man chooses to believe, man is "saved" according to some.  What is the difference?  A choice by man to believe, which has been "added" to the sacrifice of Christ.
« Last Edit: Mon Oct 19, 2015 - 13:58:11 by Catholica »

Offline allfhm

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Re: How to get into heaven?
« Reply #20 on: Mon Oct 19, 2015 - 14:47:15 »
Catholica-  Even if a person never is baptized in water as long as they believe in Jesus they are still baptized in water.

Jesus was baptized in water so anyone who believes in Jesus is also baptized in water whether they actually do it or not.

We are the righteousness of God in Jesus.  Which means Jesus fulfilled the law and we fulfill the law through Jesus.

I was baptized in water some 2,000 years ago when Jesus was baptized.  He did it for me.


Offline kensington

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Re: How to get into heaven?
« Reply #21 on: Mon Oct 19, 2015 - 15:10:07 »
"It sounds like you're saying Jesus's sacrifice alone isn't enough to save us?"

Seriously? Are you sure  you read my comments?  Because, I said NOT one work that  you can do will save you. We are saved by grace through faith in Jesus Christ alone. 

Even Baptism is not your salvation. If you get saved by the blood, you are saved. Forever.  Faith with works is the natural course your life should take AFTER salvation is gifted to you by Christ. You don't earn it or work for it or use works to get it or make it better. 


Offline Catholica

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Re: How to get into heaven?
« Reply #22 on: Mon Oct 19, 2015 - 15:19:47 »
Catholica-  Even if a person never is baptized in water as long as they believe in Jesus they are still baptized in water.

Jesus was baptized in water so anyone who believes in Jesus is also baptized in water whether they actually do it or not.

We are the righteousness of God in Jesus.  Which means Jesus fulfilled the law and we fulfill the law through Jesus.

I was baptized in water some 2,000 years ago when Jesus was baptized.  He did it for me.

Curious. 

Then why, when Peter was asked in Acts 2:38 as to what to do for salvation, tell people to "repent and be baptized" if they were already baptized when Jesus was baptized?  Why did Jesus tell the apostles to go forth teaching and baptizing in Matthew 28:19-20?

Do you consider yourself born baptized?
« Last Edit: Mon Oct 19, 2015 - 15:25:56 by Catholica »

Offline allfhm

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Re: How to get into heaven?
« Reply #23 on: Mon Oct 19, 2015 - 18:00:53 »
Catholica-  Even if a person never is baptized in water as long as they believe in Jesus they are still baptized in water.

Jesus was baptized in water so anyone who believes in Jesus is also baptized in water whether they actually do it or not.

We are the righteousness of God in Jesus.  Which means Jesus fulfilled the law and we fulfill the law through Jesus.

I was baptized in water some 2,000 years ago when Jesus was baptized.  He did it for me.

Curious. 

Then why, when Peter was asked in Acts 2:38 as to what to do for salvation, tell people to "repent and be baptized" if they were already baptized when Jesus was baptized?  Why did Jesus tell the apostles to go forth teaching and baptizing in Matthew 28:19-20?

Do you consider yourself born baptized?

Go back and read the verse before and after Acts 2:38.  No where does it say you will not be saved if you are not baptized.

Offline kensington

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Re: How to get into heaven?
« Reply #24 on: Tue Oct 20, 2015 - 01:48:34 »
Oh wow... How many licks does it take to get to the center of the Tootsie Pop?  How many nuts are in each M&M?  Do you pull or push taffy?  What makes Cotton Candy?  Should you get on the Merry Go Round?  Hmmmm....  Nevermind.  ::doh:: rofl  ::headspin:: ::drama:: ::parrot:: ::payattentiontome:: ::swinging:: ::tinfoil:: ::driving::
« Last Edit: Tue Oct 20, 2015 - 01:51:05 by kensington »

Offline wincam

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Re: How to get into heaven?
« Reply #25 on: Tue Oct 20, 2015 - 06:21:36 »
Oh wow... How many licks does it take to get to the center of the Tootsie Pop?  How many nuts are in each M&M?  Do you pull or push taffy?  What makes Cotton Candy?  Should you get on the Merry Go Round?  Hmmmm....  Nevermind.  ::doh:: rofl  ::headspin:: ::drama:: ::parrot:: ::payattentiontome:: ::swinging:: ::tinfoil:: ::driving::

offensive remark removed. - for the least Christian is greater than even John the Baptist = to be a Christian one must be born again of water and the spirit[Jn.3:5] = go ye, therefore, teaching this to all baptising them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost[Matt.28:19] - wincam
« Last Edit: Tue Oct 20, 2015 - 09:10:51 by chosenone »

Offline wincam

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Re: How to get into heaven?
« Reply #26 on: Tue Oct 20, 2015 - 06:33:41 »
Catholica-  Even if a person never is baptized in water as long as they believe in Jesus they are still baptized in water.

Jesus was baptized in water so anyone who believes in Jesus is also baptized in water whether they actually do it or not.

We are the righteousness of God in Jesus.  Which means Jesus fulfilled the law and we fulfill the law through Jesus.

I was baptized in water some 2,000 years ago when Jesus was baptized.  He did it for me.


it is required that one must be born again as a Christian via water and the spirit - wincam

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Re: How to get into heaven?
« Reply #27 on: Tue Oct 20, 2015 - 06:56:36 »
Oh wow... How many licks does it take to get to the center of the Tootsie Pop?  How many nuts are in each M&M?  Do you pull or push taffy?  What makes Cotton Candy?  Should you get on the Merry Go Round? 

3, 1, pull, air and sugar, always.   ::nodding::

Offline Catholica

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Re: How to get into heaven?
« Reply #28 on: Tue Oct 20, 2015 - 08:29:00 »
Catholica-  Even if a person never is baptized in water as long as they believe in Jesus they are still baptized in water.

Jesus was baptized in water so anyone who believes in Jesus is also baptized in water whether they actually do it or not.

We are the righteousness of God in Jesus.  Which means Jesus fulfilled the law and we fulfill the law through Jesus.

I was baptized in water some 2,000 years ago when Jesus was baptized.  He did it for me.

Curious. 

Then why, when Peter was asked in Acts 2:38 as to what to do for salvation, tell people to "repent and be baptized" if they were already baptized when Jesus was baptized?  Why did Jesus tell the apostles to go forth teaching and baptizing in Matthew 28:19-20?

Do you consider yourself born baptized?

Go back and read the verse before and after Acts 2:38.  No where does it say you will not be saved if you are not baptized.

I see that you aren't really interested in having a discussion. 

Offline wincam

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Re: How to get into heaven?
« Reply #29 on: Wed Oct 21, 2015 - 03:20:45 »
much too much a do that Jesus came to fulfill and undo - He said simply simply believe but as He also added this would be very difficult if not impossible for adults - it seems that everything that is written is written to remind us to do so and help us to simply do so[Jn.20:31] - wincam
« Last Edit: Wed Oct 21, 2015 - 03:34:42 by wincam »

Offline skeeter

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Re: How to get into heaven?
« Reply #30 on: Wed Oct 21, 2015 - 05:04:57 »
Catholica-  Even if a person never is baptized in water as long as they believe in Jesus they are still baptized in water.

Jesus was baptized in water so anyone who believes in Jesus is also baptized in water whether they actually do it or not.

We are the righteousness of God in Jesus.  Which means Jesus fulfilled the law and we fulfill the law through Jesus.

I was baptized in water some 2,000 years ago when Jesus was baptized.  He did it for me.

Curious. 

Then why, when Peter was asked in Acts 2:38 as to what to do for salvation, tell people to "repent and be baptized" if they were already baptized when Jesus was baptized?  Why did Jesus tell the apostles to go forth teaching and baptizing in Matthew 28:19-20?

Do you consider yourself born baptized?

does it say water baptism?

Offline Catholica

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Re: How to get into heaven?
« Reply #31 on: Wed Oct 21, 2015 - 08:29:31 »
Catholica-  Even if a person never is baptized in water as long as they believe in Jesus they are still baptized in water.

Jesus was baptized in water so anyone who believes in Jesus is also baptized in water whether they actually do it or not.

We are the righteousness of God in Jesus.  Which means Jesus fulfilled the law and we fulfill the law through Jesus.

I was baptized in water some 2,000 years ago when Jesus was baptized.  He did it for me.

Curious. 

Then why, when Peter was asked in Acts 2:38 as to what to do for salvation, tell people to "repent and be baptized" if they were already baptized when Jesus was baptized?  Why did Jesus tell the apostles to go forth teaching and baptizing in Matthew 28:19-20?

Do you consider yourself born baptized?

does it say water baptism?

What other kind of baptism could it be, in context?

Offline mclees8

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Re: How to get into heaven?
« Reply #32 on: Wed Oct 21, 2015 - 12:22:52 »
Can a person be saved before baptism? Absolutely

Can a person be saved after water baptism? Absolutely

Can one be born again of the spirit before water baptism ? Absolutely

Can one be born again f the spirit after water baptism? Absolutely

Can one be water baptized by Christ's baptism 2000 years ago?   absolutely not biblical
« Last Edit: Wed Oct 21, 2015 - 12:25:03 by mclees8 »

LexKnight

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Re: How to get into heaven?
« Reply #33 on: Wed Oct 21, 2015 - 12:30:06 »
Why not? Baptism is baptism.

Offline Charlie24

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Re: How to get into heaven?
« Reply #34 on: Wed Oct 21, 2015 - 12:32:02 »
Catholica-  Even if a person never is baptized in water as long as they believe in Jesus they are still baptized in water.

Jesus was baptized in water so anyone who believes in Jesus is also baptized in water whether they actually do it or not.

We are the righteousness of God in Jesus.  Which means Jesus fulfilled the law and we fulfill the law through Jesus.

I was baptized in water some 2,000 years ago when Jesus was baptized.  He did it for me.

Curious. 

Then why, when Peter was asked in Acts 2:38 as to what to do for salvation, tell people to "repent and be baptized" if they were already baptized when Jesus was baptized?  Why did Jesus tell the apostles to go forth teaching and baptizing in Matthew 28:19-20?

Do you consider yourself born baptized?

does it say water baptism?

What other kind of baptism could it be, in context?

I believe Peter was definately speaking of water baptism, but not the way you have taken it.

No one in scripture speaks more of salvation than the Apostle Paul, he is the only one who explains every aspect of salvation. Not one time did he mention water baptism as necessary for salvation. He said in Acts 20:27,  "For I have not shunned to declare unto you all the counsel of God." If water baptism was necessary for salvation Paul would have mentioned it so many times there would be no doubt.

When the jailer asked Paul, what must I do to be saved, did Paul mention water baptism? No he did not, but told him to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ.

As kindly as I know how to say it, you are in very serious trouble with God believing water baptism has a part in the forgivness of sins. Acts 2:38 is Satan's favorite verse in scripture. He is using it to his advantage as a work-based salvation that will not save anyone.

 

     
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