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Offline Catholica

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Re: I can imagine
« Reply #15 on: November 14, 2011, 04:43:34 AM »
Quote
...Nietzsche agrees with you...which is scary...

Are you really saying that we should not insist on the truth?  Do you not believe in absolute truth?

I am saying we need not agree on ALL truth. It is sufficient to agree that Jesus is our Lord. I am thankful my church understands that simple view. I think Jesus would approve. He never turned anyone away from Himself. Peace, JohnR

That is where we differ.  We believe that if God revealed something to be true, that He meant for everyone to believe it.  It is in knowing God that we can love him.

Do you realize that your church would allow the demons to receive communion if they could?  They also believe that Jesus is Lord.

It is a sad fact, but the Methodist Church as it stands is on its death bed.  New fangled churches more fun for our youth, who so often tend toward narcissism and worldliness are abandoning yours and other more traditional sects for those which are more fun, more like the world, with rock bands, coffee, younger pastors.  Or they are going to those churches with celebrity pastors.  All this and they are being led astray by the same open communion which you treasure, as if it doesn't matter who they listen to as long as they teach that Jesus is Lord.  A demon could teach that.

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Re: I can imagine
« Reply #15 on: November 14, 2011, 04:43:34 AM »

Offline FireSword

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Re: I can imagine
« Reply #16 on: November 14, 2011, 12:09:15 PM »
Jesus was 30 when he started preaching. I think younger preachers are good, I find they have more energy and grace.

Rock bands bring glory to Jesus. The commandments don't say, thou shalt not have rock bands.

The church has abandoned the young people for a young time, but when the church caters slightly to the youth, some christians complain.

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Re: I can imagine
« Reply #16 on: November 14, 2011, 12:09:15 PM »

Offline highrigger

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Re: I can imagine
« Reply #17 on: November 15, 2011, 10:32:04 AM »
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That is where we differ.  We believe that if God revealed something to be true, that He meant for everyone to believe it.  It is in knowing God that we can love him.

Catholica,

Even if your church taught truth, many Catholics do not accept all the so called truth you propose, yet they are not banned. You are not consistent. Fact is only the membership rolls matter. Why dont you just admit it?

Quote
Do you realize that your church would allow the demons to receive communion if they could?  They also believe that Jesus is Lord

We worship Jesus as Lord. There is a difference.

Quote
It is a sad fact, but the Methodist Church as it stands is on its death bed.  New fangled churches more fun for our youth, who so often tend toward narcissism and worldliness are abandoning yours and other more traditional sects for those which are more fun, more like the world, with rock bands, coffee, younger pastors.  Or they are going to those churches with celebrity pastors.  All this and they are being led astray by the same open communion which you treasure, as if it doesn't matter who they listen to as long as they teach that Jesus is Lord.  A demon could teach that.

You seem to know a lot about those demons. But we have rock bands, coffee and young well trained pastors. We worship Jesus as Lord and not a church. If you want to ban other christians that is your business, but I am very thinkful my church welcomes all christians - no demons. Remember that the NT provides no approval for you shamelful practice of rejecting sincere christians.
You made it up yourself. So you live with it. Peace, JohnR

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Re: I can imagine
« Reply #18 on: November 15, 2011, 01:18:06 PM »
Quote
That is where we differ.  We believe that if God revealed something to be true, that He meant for everyone to believe it.  It is in knowing God that we can love him.

Catholica,

Even if your church taught truth, many Catholics do not accept all the so called truth you propose, yet they are not banned. You are not consistent. Fact is only the membership rolls matter. Why dont you just admit it?

Quote
Do you realize that your church would allow the demons to receive communion if they could?  They also believe that Jesus is Lord

We worship Jesus as Lord. There is a difference.

Quote
It is a sad fact, but the Methodist Church as it stands is on its death bed.  New fangled churches more fun for our youth, who so often tend toward narcissism and worldliness are abandoning yours and other more traditional sects for those which are more fun, more like the world, with rock bands, coffee, younger pastors.  Or they are going to those churches with celebrity pastors.  All this and they are being led astray by the same open communion which you treasure, as if it doesn't matter who they listen to as long as they teach that Jesus is Lord.  A demon could teach that.

You seem to know a lot about those demons. But we have rock bands, coffee and young well trained pastors. We worship Jesus as Lord and not a church. If you want to ban other christians that is your business, but I am very thinkful my church welcomes all christians - no demons. Remember that the NT provides no approval for you shamelful practice of rejecting sincere christians.
You made it up yourself. So you live with it. Peace, JohnR

Unfortunately for you - the Lord's Table doesn't exist in your ecclesial community.
The Lord's Table contains the Holy Sacrifice of the Lamb - the Body and Blood of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Yours only contains oyster crackers and grape juice . . .
« Last Edit: November 16, 2011, 11:37:10 AM by Elvisman »

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Re: I can imagine
« Reply #18 on: November 15, 2011, 01:18:06 PM »

Offline Giver

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Re: I can imagine
« Reply #19 on: November 16, 2011, 05:04:40 AM »
Jesus gave us his Holy Spirit, and himself to teach and guide us. 

(John 10:1-5)"I tell you the truth, the man who does not enter the sheep pen by the gate, but climbs in by some other way, is a thief and a robber. The man who enters by the gate is the shepherd of his sheep. The watchman opens the gate for him, and the sheep listen to his voice. He calls his own sheep by name and leads them out. When he has brought out all his own, he goes on ahead of them, and his sheep follow him because they know his voice. But they will never follow a stranger; in fact, they will run away from him because they do not recognize a stranger's voice."

(John 14:26) “But the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you everything and remind you of all I have said to you.

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Re: I can imagine
« Reply #19 on: November 16, 2011, 05:04:40 AM »



Offline highrigger

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Re: I can imagine
« Reply #20 on: November 16, 2011, 11:25:53 AM »
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Jesus did not say one needed to belong to any certain church to love him.

Giver,

But Catholica asserts that if we are wrong on any teeny doctrine, He does not want us to approach his communion table.

Is that the love he preached? Peace, JohnR

Elvisman

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Re: I can imagine
« Reply #21 on: November 16, 2011, 11:44:25 AM »
Jesus gave us his Holy Spirit, and himself to teach and guide us.  

(John 10:1-5)"I tell you the truth, the man who does not enter the sheep pen by the gate, but climbs in by some other way, is a thief and a robber. The man who enters by the gate is the shepherd of his sheep. The watchman opens the gate for him, and the sheep listen to his voice. He calls his own sheep by name and leads them out. When he has brought out all his own, he goes on ahead of them, and his sheep follow him because they know his voice. But they will never follow a stranger; in fact, they will run away from him because they do not recognize a stranger's voice."

(John 14:26) “But the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you everything and remind you of all I have said to you.

Elvisman

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Re: I can imagine
« Reply #22 on: November 16, 2011, 11:56:05 AM »
Quote
Jesus did not say one needed to belong to any certain church to love him.

Giver,

But Catholica asserts that if we are wrong on any teeny doctrine, He does not want us to approach his communion table.

Is that the love he preached? Peace, JohnR

That's PRECISELY what he preached.

In Luke 10:16, he ECXPLICITLY said of his Church:
“The one who listens to YOU listens to ME, and the one who rejects YOU rejects ME; and he who rejects ME rejects the ONE who sent me.

Offline Giver

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Re: I can imagine
« Reply #23 on: November 16, 2011, 12:10:04 PM »
Jesus gave us his Holy Spirit, and himself to teach and guide us.  

(John 10:1-5)"I tell you the truth, the man who does not enter the sheep pen by the gate, but climbs in by some other way, is a thief and a robber. The man who enters by the gate is the shepherd of his sheep. The watchman opens the gate for him, and the sheep listen to his voice. He calls his own sheep by name and leads them out. When he has brought out all his own, he goes on ahead of them, and his sheep follow him because they know his voice. But they will never follow a stranger; in fact, they will run away from him because they do not recognize a stranger's voice."

(John 14:26) “But the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you everything and remind you of all I have said to you.

Offline Josiah

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Re: I can imagine
« Reply #24 on: November 16, 2011, 12:16:31 PM »

In Luke 10:16, he ECXPLICITLY said of his Church:
“The one who listens to YOU listens to ME, and the one who rejects YOU rejects ME; and he who rejects ME rejects the ONE who sent me.

Elvisman

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Re: I can imagine
« Reply #25 on: November 16, 2011, 12:24:47 PM »
No one said one should reject God’s church.  The only question is what is God’s Church?

God’s Church: are those who hear the Word of God and live that Word.

(Matthew 6:19) “Do not store up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy, and where thieves break in and steal.

(Matthew 23:8-9) “You, however must not allow yourselves to be called Rabbi, since you have only one Master, and you are all brothers.  You must call no one on earth your father, since you have only one Father, and he is in heaven.

Offline Josiah

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Re: I can imagine
« Reply #26 on: November 16, 2011, 12:37:07 PM »


Can you point me to that Church today?
The answer CANNOT be a conglomeration of ecclesial communities that ALL have different doctrines.  It must be a unified, universal monolith - not a set of splintered, bickering sects.
Jesus prayed that his Church remain ONE.  Do you honestly think that God wouldn't answer the prayer of his Son?


... so, according to you, we need to look for some denomination that is in unity.  Okay.  With what is The Catholic Church in unity?  

Yes, we all know, it's in unity with ITSELF (well, officially, formally, institutionally, and exclusively in those areas where it itself alone currently declares it good to be in agreement anyway), sure - but then the LDS agrees with ITSELF, too - just as much as the RCC does (officially, formally, institutionally, and exclusively in those areas where it itself alone currently declares it good to be in agreement).  In fact, can you show me ANY denomination that doesn't have unity with ITSELF, just like the "unity" that the RC denomination has - with itself (officially, formally, institutionally, and exclusively in those areas that it itself alone currently regards as good for agreement)?  Frankly, my friend, I  can't think of a denomination that has unity BEYOND it self less than the RCC one does.   So, by your rubric, it would be at the top of the list of denominations to reject.




Quote from: Josiah

Wrong.

IF you actually read the verse, you'd know what all others do.
Jesus NEVER remotely said this to "his church."
AND CERTAINLY not to the RC Denomination.

A little honesty goes a LONG way in these discussions....





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« Last Edit: November 16, 2011, 12:45:08 PM by Josiah »

Elvisman

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Re: I can imagine
« Reply #27 on: November 16, 2011, 12:52:56 PM »
... so, according to you, we need to look for some denomination that is in unity.  Okay.  With what is The Catholic Church in unity?
EVERYTHING

Yes, we all know, it's in unity with ITSELF (well, officially, formally, institutionally, and exclusively in those areas where it itself alone currently declares it good to be in agreement anyway), sure - but then the LDS agrees with ITSELF, too - just as much as the RCC does (officially, formally, institutionally, and exclusively in those areas where it itself alone currently declares it good to be in agreement).  In fact, can you show me ANY denomination that doesn't have unity with ITSELF, just like the "unity" that the RC denomination has - with itself (officially, formally, institutionally, and exclusively in those areas that it itself alone currently regards as good for agreement)?  Frankly, my friend, I  can't think of a denomination that has unity BEYOND it self less than the RCC one does.   So, by your rubric, it would be at the top of the list of denominations to reject.

The answer is so simple - I am STUNNED that you don't know it:
The Catholic Church can trace itself ALL the way back to the Apostles.

The LDS can only go back about 150 years.
EVERY SINGLE splintered Protestant denomination can only go back about 500 years.
You ALL expire beyond that.
We DON'T.

Offline Giver

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Re: I can imagine
« Reply #28 on: November 16, 2011, 01:02:30 PM »
No one said one should reject God’s church.  The only question is what is God’s Church?

God’s Church: are those who hear the Word of God and live that Word.

(Matthew 6:19) “Do not store up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy, and where thieves break in and steal.

(Matthew 23:8-9) “You, however must not allow yourselves to be called Rabbi, since you have only one Master, and you are all brothers.  You must call no one on earth your father, since you have only one Father, and he is in heaven.

Offline Josiah

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Re: I can imagine
« Reply #29 on: November 16, 2011, 01:12:44 PM »


... so, according to you, we need to look for some denomination that is in unity.  Okay.  With what is The Catholic Church in unity?


EVERYTHING


Haha!   
Your denomination is in unity with only one:  ITSELF.
And even that is just official, formal, institutional, and limited to those items that it itself alone currently regards as good to agree on.

You can't name another denomination that has LESS unity than yours does.  Every one you can name has AT LEAST as much unity as yours does.   

So, by your rubric, your denomination would be at the bottom of the list of possible true churches.




Quote


Yes, we all know, it's in unity with ITSELF (well, officially, formally, institutionally, and exclusively in those areas where it itself alone currently declares it good to be in agreement anyway), sure - but then the LDS agrees with ITSELF, too - just as much as the RCC does (officially, formally, institutionally, and exclusively in those areas where it itself alone currently declares it good to be in agreement).  In fact, can you show me ANY denomination that doesn't have unity with ITSELF, just like the "unity" that the RC denomination has - with itself (officially, formally, institutionally, and exclusively in those areas that it itself alone currently regards as good for agreement)?  Frankly, my friend, I  can't think of a denomination that has unity BEYOND it self less than the RCC one does.   So, by your rubric, it would be at the top of the list of denominations to reject.




The Catholic Church can trace itself ALL the way back to the Apostles.

Entirely irrelevant to anything I posted.   

A CLAIM of self for self, that has nothing to do with unity.   Just a diversion attempt.





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