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KiwiChristian

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INDULGENCES
« on: Tue Apr 10, 2018 - 22:12:12 »
INDULGENCES.

Definition: A person after confessing his sins to a priest, in order to be free from the punishment still due for his sins, requires the church to pray for his rehabilitation.

The person must do penance works such as fasting, making pilgrimages, giving money, making prayers or inflicting pain on oneself, as a penalty for sins committed.

Historically, people found it easier to pay money to the Roman Catholic church than to pray for long hours. The Roman Catholic church preferred money because the Pope ran out of cash in building St Peter’s Basilica in Rome. So the Roman Catholic church issued the person with an official statement that he had received release from the penalties through the payment of money. This document was called an indulgence. They could be bought for
friends and relatives who had died and passed into purgatory, thus shortening the time that they would have to spend there.

Martin Luther objected to Tetzel, a Catholic indulgence seller, who publicly announced to people that if they put a coin in a box, a dead relative's soul would immediately pop out of purgatory. His advertising slogan was: "As the coin in you pop, a soul from purgatory doth hop."


Answer: Obviously, this teaching cannot be found in the Bible. After Word War II, the Archbishop of Winnipeg asked mothers who had sons killed in the war, to pay $40 to have masses said on behalf of their sons to guarantee their salvation and entrance to heaven.
This practice continues in many parts of the world, and accounts
for the great wealth of the Catholic church as seen in the big cathedrals it builds.


Which Bible verses forbid indulgence selling?

1. Jesus warns against this practice in Matthew 23:14, a verse that Catholics have cut out of modern Bible versions. "Woe unto you, Scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For ye devour widows houses, and for a pretense make long prayer: therefore ye shall receive the greater damnation."

The Pharisees of Jesus' day, as well as Catholic priests of today, tell widows that their dead husband has gone to purgatory. They ask her if she wants him to go to heaven.

If yes, she will have to pay the priest to say a mass to pray for his soul to leave purgatory. Widows don't usually have much money, so he tells her to sell her house to pay for it. This is how widows houses are devoured by priests who for a pretense make long prayers.

2. The Israelites were forbidden to give money for the dead. "None of them can by any means redeem his brother, nor give to God a ransom for him." Psalms 49:7. No gift of money can save another person. Only the blood of Christ can.

3. Peter says: "Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold ... but with the precious blood of Christ." 1 Peter 1:18,19. Nobody is redeemed with indulgence money.

4. Simon the sorcerer offered the apostles money so that anyone that he laid hands on would receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Peter rebuked him strongly in Acts 8:20-23 saying: "Thy money perish with thee, because thou hast thought that the GIFT OF
GOD may be purchased with money. Thou hast neither part nor lot in this matter: for thy heart is not right in the sight of God. Repent therefore of this thy wickedness."

Salvation is the gift of God that each of us must claim freely for ourselves when we call on Christ to be our Saviour. No baptism, eucharist, confessional to a priest, penance, extreme unction, or paying money can save us, only faith in Christ's precious saving blood to pay for our sins.

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INDULGENCES
« on: Tue Apr 10, 2018 - 22:12:12 »

Offline Ladonia

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Re: INDULGENCES
« Reply #1 on: Wed Apr 11, 2018 - 17:04:52 »
INDULGENCES.

Definition: A person after confessing his sins to a priest, in order to be free from the punishment still due for his sins, requires the church to pray for his rehabilitation.

The person must do penance works such as fasting, making pilgrimages, giving money, making prayers or inflicting pain on oneself, as a penalty for sins committed.

Historically, people found it easier to pay money to the Roman Catholic church than to pray for long hours. The Roman Catholic church preferred money because the Pope ran out of cash in building St Peter’s Basilica in Rome. So the Roman Catholic church issued the person with an official statement that he had received release from the penalties through the payment of money. This document was called an indulgence. They could be bought for
friends and relatives who had died and passed into purgatory, thus shortening the time that they would have to spend there.

Martin Luther objected to Tetzel, a Catholic indulgence seller, who publicly announced to people that if they put a coin in a box, a dead relative's soul would immediately pop out of purgatory. His advertising slogan was: "As the coin in you pop, a soul from purgatory doth hop."


Answer: Obviously, this teaching cannot be found in the Bible. After Word War II, the Archbishop of Winnipeg asked mothers who had sons killed in the war, to pay $40 to have masses said on behalf of their sons to guarantee their salvation and entrance to heaven.
This practice continues in many parts of the world, and accounts
for the great wealth of the Catholic church as seen in the big cathedrals it builds.


Which Bible verses forbid indulgence selling?

1. Jesus warns against this practice in Matthew 23:14, a verse that Catholics have cut out of modern Bible versions. "Woe unto you, Scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For ye devour widows houses, and for a pretense make long prayer: therefore ye shall receive the greater damnation."

The Pharisees of Jesus' day, as well as Catholic priests of today, tell widows that their dead husband has gone to purgatory. They ask her if she wants him to go to heaven.

If yes, she will have to pay the priest to say a mass to pray for his soul to leave purgatory. Widows don't usually have much money, so he tells her to sell her house to pay for it. This is how widows houses are devoured by priests who for a pretense make long prayers.

2. The Israelites were forbidden to give money for the dead. "None of them can by any means redeem his brother, nor give to God a ransom for him." Psalms 49:7. No gift of money can save another person. Only the blood of Christ can.

3. Peter says: "Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold ... but with the precious blood of Christ." 1 Peter 1:18,19. Nobody is redeemed with indulgence money.

4. Simon the sorcerer offered the apostles money so that anyone that he laid hands on would receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Peter rebuked him strongly in Acts 8:20-23 saying: "Thy money perish with thee, because thou hast thought that the GIFT OF
GOD may be purchased with money. Thou hast neither part nor lot in this matter: for thy heart is not right in the sight of God. Repent therefore of this thy wickedness."

Salvation is the gift of God that each of us must claim freely for ourselves when we call on Christ to be our Saviour. No baptism, eucharist, confessional to a priest, penance, extreme unction, or paying money can save us, only faith in Christ's precious saving blood to pay for our sins.

Indulgences are not a factor anymore, so stop living in the past. As for Christ's saving blood, why don't you have an altar in your church? Mine does, and we hold up the great sacrifice of Calvary at every Mass just like Jesus instructed us to do. What do you have as worship, a sermon?

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Re: INDULGENCES
« Reply #1 on: Wed Apr 11, 2018 - 17:04:52 »

KiwiChristian

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Re: INDULGENCES
« Reply #2 on: Wed Apr 11, 2018 - 18:40:14 »
Indulgences are not a factor anymore, so stop living in the past.

Indulgences ARE still used today. Hence the mass, which gets your loved ones out of purgatory faster.

You cannot buy one — the church outlawed the sale of indulgences in 1567 — but charitable contributions, combined with other acts, can help you earn one. There is a limit of one plenary indulgence per sinner per day. It has no currency in the bad place.

Just checked online and it seems indulgences are STILL being used. https://www.catholicnewsagency.com/resources/catechism/baltimore-catechism/lesson-21-on-indulgences


As for Christ's saving blood, why don't you have an altar in your church?

You are assuming my "church" does not. So, since you know my 'church", what is it? What's its' name?

 Mine does, and we hold up the great sacrifice of Calvary at every Mass just like Jesus instructed us to do. What do you have as worship, a sermon?

Sorry, Christ is not still on the cross. HE IS RISEN! That's the problem with you catholics, you won't take Jesus down off the cross.

And, Jesus did NOT tell you to do it. He said to break bread in REMEMBRANCE of Him. Not to re-present His ONCE FOR ALL sacrifice.

Your popes and priests have lied to you, my friend.

Online AVZ

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Re: INDULGENCES
« Reply #3 on: Wed Apr 11, 2018 - 21:45:45 »
Indulgences are not a factor anymore, so stop living in the past. As for Christ's saving blood, why don't you have an altar in your church? Mine does, and we hold up the great sacrifice of Calvary at every Mass just like Jesus instructed us to do. What do you have as worship, a sermon?

Ladonia,

I urge you to be complete and correct about the teachings of the RCC.
Indulgences are still a factor. They still exist, and the practice still is approved by the church.
Also the doctrine for the use of indulgences, and recommendations, is established in the Council of Trent, Session XXV

It reads:
"Whereas the power of conferring Indulgences was granted by Christ to the Church; and she has, even in the most ancient times, used the said power, delivered unto her of God; the sacred holy Synod teaches, and enjoins, that the use of Indulgences, for the Christian people most salutary, and approved of by the authority of sacred Councils, is to be retained in the Church; and it condemns with anathema those who either assert, that they are useless ; or who deny that there is in the Church the power of granting them.
In granting them, however, It desires that, in accordance with the ancient and approved custom in the Church, moderation be observed; lest, by excessive facility, ecclesastical discipline be enervated. And being desirous that the abuses which have crept therein, and by occasion of which this honourable name of Indulgences is blasphemed by heretics, be amended and corrected, It ordains generally by this decree, that all evil gains for the obtaining thereof,-whence a most prolific cause of abuses amongst the Christian people has been derived,-be wholly abolished."


There follows a second paragraph that addresses the abuse of indulgences, and I think it is important to recognize something about that.
I don't believe that it was the RCC's intend to sell indulgences the way Tetzel did. Tetzel went way overboard.

But let me be clear: The practice of indulgences was NOT the reason for the Reformation. Even Luther recognized that Tetzel went way overboard and it was the act of an individual.
What Tetzel did however triggered the question: How are people justified? And that became the major stumbling block that resulted in the Reformation.

I don't approve on Indulgences and I agree it is not longer widely practiced in the RCC...however it still is a valid practice officially recognized and approved by the RCC.


As for the altar.
We Protestants believe that Christ made the final sacrifice on Calvary. No further sacrifice is required.
That automatically abolishes the need for an altar, either at home or in the church. Whats the use of an altar if you don't sacrifice anything?
It would actually be very strange for a Protestant to have an altar at home, because it would contradict with his theology.


Finally your question what we have as worship.
Well we have prayer, we have praise, we have alms and we have teaching...just like you have.
Guess what, even the RCC recognizes all these things as valid forms of worship, so I do not really understand your question.

We also have Holy Communion, just like you.
The only thing we do not have is the theology that the bread and water turn into the literal flesh and blood.

So are you saying that worship is only valid worship if there is a Eucharist and transubstantiation present?

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Re: INDULGENCES
« Reply #3 on: Wed Apr 11, 2018 - 21:45:45 »

Offline Open Heart

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Re: INDULGENCES
« Reply #4 on: Sat Apr 14, 2018 - 03:49:38 »
INDULGENCES.

Definition: A person after confessing his sins to a priest, in order to be free from the punishment still due for his sins, requires the church to pray for his rehabilitation.
You will never understand what an indulgence is until you understand the difference between heavenly punishment (spiritual death, hell) and temporal punishment (i.e. going to jail).

Every sin has both kinds of punishments attached.  Salvation removes the spiritual punishment -- if I embezzle but become  Christian and persevere to the end, I will not go to hell, but will live eternally.  That doesn't mean, however, that I won't go to jail.  Being a Christian doesn't save me from my temporal punish as a whole shlew of prisoners in Levinworth can testify.

But what if I embezzled and never got caught, and I became a Christian?  God led me to give the money I stole to the poor, but didn't ask me to turn myself in.  So what happens to my temporal punishment?  Does it just disappear?  Absolutely not.  We suffer in this life, from illness and tragedy.  And whatever temporal punishment is not taken care of before death, is taken care of in Purgatory.

Purgatory has nothing to do with forgiveness.  You don't work off your sins to be saved.  Indeed only the saved will be in purgatory.  The idea is that we need to be perfected so that we can enter heaven.

In terms of temporal punishment, there are "mitigating circumstances."  A person who has led an exemplary life of self sacrifice and service will be given a lighter sentence by the judge.  In the same way, the good that we do can offset our temporal punishment.

NOW we can talk about indulgences.  Indulgences are simply those good works which the church acknowledges will offset temporal punishment.  They are usually prayers, pilgrimages, and giving to charity.  You cannot buy an indulgence.  The idea that for X amount of money you can get Y amount of years off is preposterous.  There were those corrupt con artists such as Tetzel who fenangle many out of their money, but the church never taught it, and at Trent made sure that everyone understood correct teaching.

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Re: INDULGENCES
« Reply #4 on: Sat Apr 14, 2018 - 03:49:38 »



KiwiChristian

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Re: INDULGENCES
« Reply #5 on: Sun Apr 15, 2018 - 18:55:43 »

Purgatory has nothing to do with forgiveness.  You don't work off your sins to be saved.  Indeed only the saved will be in purgatory. 

I know. Jesus has already paid that price.

The idea is that we need to be perfected so that we can enter heaven.

I know. And Jesus HAS made us positionally perfect. "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.".


In terms of temporal punishment, there are "mitigating circumstances."  A person who has led an exemplary life of self sacrifice and service will be given a lighter sentence by the judge.  In the same way, the good that we do can offset our temporal punishment.

That concept is NOWHERE found in the Bible, though. WE can do NOTHING to warrant or earn forgiveness. Catholics don't get it. Jesus has ALREADY PAID THE PRICE IN FULL.

NOW we can talk about indulgences.  Indulgences are simply those good works which the church acknowledges will offset temporal punishment.

I know. But as i said above, JESUS PAID IT ALL.

IF we have to DO anything, then Jesus failed on the cross, my friend.




Offline winsome

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Re: INDULGENCES
« Reply #6 on: Mon Apr 16, 2018 - 09:15:02 »

And Jesus HAS made us positionally perfect.


"positionally perfect"?
What does that mean?

 You, therefore, must be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect. (Mt 5:48)
 Is the Father "positionally perfect"?
 
Jesus said to him, “If you would be perfect, go, sell what you possess and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow me.” (Mt 19:21)
Jesus said be perfect, not be positionally perfect.

Do not be conformed to this worldbut be transformed by the renewal of your mind, that you may prove what is the will of God, what is good and acceptable and perfect.(Rom 12:2)
Paul said perfect, not positionally perfect
 
Since we have these promises, beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from every defilement of body and spirit, and make holiness perfect in the fear of God. (2Cor 7:1)
Paul said make holiness perfect, not positionally perfect
 
For it was fitting that he, for whom and by whom all things exist, in bringing many sons to glory, should make the pioneer of their salvation perfect through suffering. (Heb 2:10)
Again perfect not positionally perfect.
 
There are more examples but that will suffice, Nowhere does it say positionally perfect.
 
 

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Re: INDULGENCES
« Reply #7 on: Mon Apr 16, 2018 - 09:18:16 »
The concept of purgatory is retarded.

Offline winsome

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Re: INDULGENCES
« Reply #8 on: Mon Apr 16, 2018 - 09:21:48 »
The concept of purgatory is retarded.

More likely your understanding is retarded.

This thread is about Indugences. Why are you trying to derail it?

Online AVZ

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Re: INDULGENCES
« Reply #9 on: Mon Apr 16, 2018 - 10:33:42 »
You will never understand what an indulgence is until you understand the difference between heavenly punishment (spiritual death, hell) and temporal punishment (i.e. going to jail).

Every sin has both kinds of punishments attached.  Salvation removes the spiritual punishment -- if I embezzle but become  Christian and persevere to the end, I will not go to hell, but will live eternally.  That doesn't mean, however, that I won't go to jail.  Being a Christian doesn't save me from my temporal punish as a whole shlew of prisoners in Levinworth can testify.

But what if I embezzled and never got caught, and I became a Christian?  God led me to give the money I stole to the poor, but didn't ask me to turn myself in.  So what happens to my temporal punishment?  Does it just disappear?  Absolutely not.  We suffer in this life, from illness and tragedy.  And whatever temporal punishment is not taken care of before death, is taken care of in Purgatory.

Purgatory has nothing to do with forgiveness.  You don't work off your sins to be saved.  Indeed only the saved will be in purgatory.  The idea is that we need to be perfected so that we can enter heaven.

In terms of temporal punishment, there are "mitigating circumstances."  A person who has led an exemplary life of self sacrifice and service will be given a lighter sentence by the judge.  In the same way, the good that we do can offset our temporal punishment.

NOW we can talk about indulgences.  Indulgences are simply those good works which the church acknowledges will offset temporal punishment.  They are usually prayers, pilgrimages, and giving to charity.  You cannot buy an indulgence.  The idea that for X amount of money you can get Y amount of years off is preposterous.  There were those corrupt con artists such as Tetzel who fenangle many out of their money, but the church never taught it, and at Trent made sure that everyone understood correct teaching.

This whole response insinuates that in Purgatory people are being cleansed of their personal sins.
The person that committed more sins, needs to stay in Purgatory longer.

Reality is that the Catholic Church not really teaches that.
In Catholic doctrine and theology it is possible for descendants of the deceased to do something "good", which then is accounted to the merits of the deceased and his time in Purgatory is shortened. For example the church can do a mass for a dead person, paid for and financed by the family, and the deceased get to leave Purgatory earlier.

So contrary to what the response indicates that Purgatory is tit-for-tat, which would make the system fair...it is not.
Technically when the living perform a meritorious deed, they are obtaining an indulgence for the deceased.

At the basis for the delusion that Purgatory exists is the doctrine by the RCC that justification is infused instead of imputed.
And that misconception of infused grace has lead to the system of works and obtaining merits.
« Last Edit: Mon Apr 16, 2018 - 10:37:00 by AVZ »

Online AVZ

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Re: INDULGENCES
« Reply #10 on: Mon Apr 16, 2018 - 10:47:40 »
More likely your understanding is retarded.

This thread is about Indugences. Why are you trying to derail it?

Indulgences and Purgatory are intrinsically related.
The whole idea of Indulgences rest on the notion that they reduce the time in Purgatory.

By bringing up Purgatory, TC is not derailing the thread.
He is in fact addressing the point. If Purgatory is retarded, then so are Indulgences.

Offline winsome

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Re: INDULGENCES
« Reply #11 on: Mon Apr 16, 2018 - 12:40:19 »
But as i said above, JESUS PAID IT ALL.

But what, in your opinion, is the IT that Jesus paid all of?

KiwiChristian

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Re: INDULGENCES
« Reply #12 on: Tue Apr 17, 2018 - 04:14:03 »
To say that purgatory is a necessary purification is to deny that the grace of God is sufficient. 1 John 1:9 says, "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness."
Another passage which clearly excludes the idea of purgatory is, …their sins and transgressions I will remember no more (Hebrews 10:17). If, as the Bible says, God no longer remembers the sins of those who are in Christ, He does not punish them for these sins. To do so would be saying that Christ had not made full payment for them and that God the Father still remembered them. (See also Romans 5:8-11; Hebrews 10:14-18; Psalm 103:12).
"Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past." (Romans 3:24-25)

John 2:1-2 says, “My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.”

If purgatory is true then the 'catholic' Christ didn't accomplish anything on the cross, wasted his time and died for nothing. The 'catholic' Christ should have hired a pro instead of doing the job himself. The Christ of Christianity is the Pro. He got the job on the cross done right the first time. And.....He did it for free!

Purgatory is a man-made money-making thing invented by the unbiblical rcc.Heb1:3 "When He had by Himself PURGED OUR SINS.".Rom8:1 "There is therefor now NO CONDEMNATION to them that are in Christ Jesus.". Psalms49:7 "None of them can redeem his brother, nor give to God a ransom for him.".Dont forget Prov10:12 which never mentions purgatory.  Acts4:12"Nor is there salvation in any other, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved.”


Listen, we are PURGED OF OUR SINS ( not some, ALL ) by the blood of Jesus Christ. Heb1:3,Rom8:1 and John5:24. Remember "there is no more condemnation when Jesus passed over our sins and paid the ultimate penalty for us." Why didnt the apostles ever discuss purgatory? 2Cor5:8There is no mention of pur. here. In Luke16:19-31, Jesus reveals there is a great gulf between hell and paradise that people cannot pass from one to the other. Catholics defend purgaroey by quoting the uninspired 2Mac12:40-46 where a "sin offering" is offered for dead soldiers who had committed the sin of idolatry. This not only contradicts the Bible, but also catholic teaching, because idolatry is a "mortal sin" that would confine a person to hell. An ex-nun said the only purgatory that exists is the priests' pockets.




KiwiChristian

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Re: INDULGENCES
« Reply #13 on: Tue Apr 17, 2018 - 04:33:07 »
The concept of purgatory is retarded.

I agree.

It makes a MOCKERY of the cross.

Offline winsome

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Re: INDULGENCES
« Reply #14 on: Wed Apr 18, 2018 - 04:08:29 »
I agree.

It makes a MOCKERY of the cross.

No it doesn't

Offline Ladonia

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Re: INDULGENCES
« Reply #15 on: Wed Apr 18, 2018 - 08:23:32 »
To say that purgatory is a necessary purification is to deny that the grace of God is sufficient. 1 John 1:9 says, "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness."
Another passage which clearly excludes the idea of purgatory is, …their sins and transgressions I will remember no more (Hebrews 10:17). If, as the Bible says, God no longer remembers the sins of those who are in Christ, He does not punish them for these sins. To do so would be saying that Christ had not made full payment for them and that God the Father still remembered them. (See also Romans 5:8-11; Hebrews 10:14-18; Psalm 103:12).
"Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past." (Romans 3:24-25)

John 2:1-2 says, “My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.”

If purgatory is true then the 'catholic' Christ didn't accomplish anything on the cross, wasted his time and died for nothing. The 'catholic' Christ should have hired a pro instead of doing the job himself. The Christ of Christianity is the Pro. He got the job on the cross done right the first time. And.....He did it for free!

Purgatory is a man-made money-making thing invented by the unbiblical rcc.Heb1:3 "When He had by Himself PURGED OUR SINS.".Rom8:1 "There is therefor now NO CONDEMNATION to them that are in Christ Jesus.". Psalms49:7 "None of them can redeem his brother, nor give to God a ransom for him.".Dont forget Prov10:12 which never mentions purgatory.  Acts4:12"Nor is there salvation in any other, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved.”


Listen, we are PURGED OF OUR SINS ( not some, ALL ) by the blood of Jesus Christ. Heb1:3,Rom8:1 and John5:24. Remember "there is no more condemnation when Jesus passed over our sins and paid the ultimate penalty for us." Why didnt the apostles ever discuss purgatory? 2Cor5:8There is no mention of pur. here. In Luke16:19-31, Jesus reveals there is a great gulf between hell and paradise that people cannot pass from one to the other. Catholics defend purgaroey by quoting the uninspired 2Mac12:40-46 where a "sin offering" is offered for dead soldiers who had committed the sin of idolatry. This not only contradicts the Bible, but also catholic teaching, because idolatry is a "mortal sin" that would confine a person to hell. An ex-nun said the only purgatory that exists is the priests' pockets.


We also use the following Scripture passage: 1 Corinthians 3:11-15 For no other foundation can any one lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. [12] Now if any one builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw – [13] each man's work will become manifest; for the Day will disclose it, because it will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test what sort of work each one has done. [14] If the work which any man has built on the foundation survives, he will receive a reward. [15] If any man's work is burned up, he will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire.


Also, quoting an ex-nun who most likely has some axe to grind is not a credible source. She is what, one person and the continued teaching of the Church is opposite of what she claims? You make me want to laugh sometimes.

KiwiChristian

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Re: INDULGENCES
« Reply #16 on: Thu Apr 19, 2018 - 03:45:46 »

We also use the following Scripture passage: 1 Corinthians 3:11-15 For no other foundation can any one lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. [12] Now if any one builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw – [13] each man's work will become manifest; for the Day will disclose it, because it will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test what sort of work each one has done. [14] If the work which any man has built on the foundation survives, he will receive a reward. [15] If any man's work is burned up, he will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire.


Yes, i know full well catholics try to use this verse by ripping it out of context.


Also, quoting an ex-nun who most likely has some axe to grind is not a credible source. She is what, one person and the continued teaching of the Church is opposite of what she claims? You make me want to laugh sometimes.

Oh, so you know her, huh?

VERY judgmental of you, my friend. Time for a confession, i think.

I guess anyone that says something negative about catholicism is "anti-catholic", has an axe to grind, is a liar, etc.

organisations like mormons and JW's have this attitude.



« Last Edit: Thu Apr 19, 2018 - 15:02:39 by KiwiChristian »

Offline Open Heart

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Re: INDULGENCES
« Reply #17 on: Mon Apr 23, 2018 - 20:43:49 »
I agree.

It makes a MOCKERY of the cross.
Platitudes are not arguments.

Offline Ladonia

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Re: INDULGENCES
« Reply #18 on: Mon Apr 23, 2018 - 21:36:13 »


Pray brother, bring the passage into context for us.
« Last Edit: Mon Apr 23, 2018 - 21:38:23 by Ladonia »

 

     
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