Infallibility ?

[wincam]

which one of these four do you reckon the Catholic Church really regard as infallible = the Pope - the Magisterium - the Holy Ghost - wincam

[Catholica]

Why are you asking this question yet again?  Are you ignorant of your Catholic faith?

[wincam]

Why are you asking this question yet again?  Are you ignorant of your Catholic faith?

could it just be that you are  - bet you can't and daren't answer the question - wincam

[Alan]

He's trolling Andre, been doing it for weeks.

[wincam]

He's trolling Andre, been doing it for weeks.

of course you mean trawling as a fisher of men and women - wincam

[Catholica]

Why are you asking this question yet again?  Are you ignorant of your Catholic faith?

could it just be that you are

It could be. So let's go see what the Catechism says.

HOLY SPIRIT

683 "No one can say 'Jesus is Lord' except by the Holy Spirit."1 "God has sent the Spirit of his Son into our hearts, crying, 'Abba! Father!"'2 This knowledge of faith is possible only in the Holy Spirit: to be in touch with Christ, we must first have been touched by the Holy Spirit. He comes to meet us and kindles faith in us. By virtue of our Baptism, the first sacrament of the faith, the Holy Spirit in the Church communicates to us, intimately and personally, the life that originates in the Father and is offered to us in the Son.

Baptism gives us the grace of new birth in God the Father, through his Son, in the Holy Spirit. For those who bear God's Spirit are led to the Word, that is, to the Son, and the Son presents them to the Father, and the Father confers incorruptibility on them. And it is impossible to see God's Son without the Spirit, and no one can approach the Father without the Son, for the knowledge of the Father is the Son, and the knowledge of God's Son is obtained through the Holy Spirit.3
684 Through his grace, the Holy Spirit is the first to awaken faith in us and to communicate to us the new life, which is to "know the Father and the one whom he has sent, Jesus Christ."4 But the Spirit is the last of the persons of the Holy Trinity to be revealed. St. Gregory of Nazianzus, the Theologian, explains this progression in terms of the pedagogy of divine "condescension":

The Old Testament proclaimed the Father clearly, but the Son more obscurely. The New Testament revealed the Son and gave us a glimpse of the divinity of the Spirit. Now the Spirit dwells among us and grants us a clearer vision of himself. It was not prudent, when the divinity of the Father had not yet been confessed, to proclaim the Son openly and, when the divinity of the Son was not yet admitted, to add the Holy Spirit as an extra burden, to speak somewhat daringly. . . . By advancing and progressing "from glory to glory," the light of the Trinity will shine in ever more brilliant rays.5
685 To believe in the Holy Spirit is to profess that the Holy Spirit is one of the persons of the Holy Trinity, consubstantial with the Father and the Son: "with the Father and the Son he is worshipped and glorified."6 For this reason, the divine mystery of the Holy Spirit was already treated in the context of Trinitarian "theology." Here, however, we have to do with the Holy Spirit only in the divine "economy."

686 The Holy Spirit is at work with the Father and the Son from the beginning to the completion of the plan for our salvation. But in these "end times," ushered in by the Son's redeeming Incarnation, the Spirit is revealed and given, recognized and welcomed as a person. Now can this divine plan, accomplished in Christ, the firstborn and head of the new creation, be embodied in mankind by the outpouring of the Spirit: as the Church, the communion of saints, the forgiveness of sins, the resurrection of the body, and the life everlasting.

The Holy Spirit, being God, is the communicator of the faith, and as God is the one who enables the faith to live on. Colloquially speaking, He is infallible; technically speaking He is more than that. He also cannot sin and cannot make mistakes: He is God.

The Magisterium and the Pope are also infallible though they are capable of making moral mistakes and are fully human. By virtue of the power of the Holy Spirit  working through them because of the offices they hold that Christ established, under certain circumstances the Holy Spirit protects their pronouncements to ensure that the faith is correctly propagated through time.  We call this charism "infallibility" are so in that way and only that way, the Magisterium and the Pope are also "infallible".

* The teaching office

888 Bishops, with priests as co-workers, have as their first task "to preach the Gospel of God to all men," in keeping with the Lord's command.415 They are "heralds of faith, who draw new disciples to Christ; they are authentic teachers" of the apostolic faith "endowed with the authority of Christ."416

889 In order to preserve the Church in the purity of the faith handed on by the apostles, Christ who is the Truth willed to confer on her a share in his own infallibility. By a "supernatural sense of faith" the People of God, under the guidance of the Church's living Magisterium, "unfailingly adheres to this faith."417

890 The mission of the Magisterium is linked to the definitive nature of the covenant established by God with his people in Christ. It is this Magisterium's task to preserve God's people from deviations and defections and to guarantee them the objective possibility of professing the true faith without error. Thus, the pastoral duty of the Magisterium is aimed at seeing to it that the People of God abides in the truth that liberates. To fulfill this service, Christ endowed the Church's shepherds with the charism of infallibility in matters of faith and morals. The exercise of this charism takes several forms:

891 "The Roman Pontiff, head of the college of bishops, enjoys this infallibility in virtue of his office, when, as supreme pastor and teacher of all the faithful - who confirms his brethren in the faith he proclaims by a definitive act a doctrine pertaining to faith or morals. . . . The infallibility promised to the Church is also present in the body of bishops when, together with Peter's successor, they exercise the supreme Magisterium," above all in an Ecumenical Council.418 When the Church through its supreme Magisterium proposes a doctrine "for belief as being divinely revealed,"419 and as the teaching of Christ, the definitions "must be adhered to with the obedience of faith."420 This infallibility extends as far as the deposit of divine Revelation itself.421

892 Divine assistance is also given to the successors of the apostles, teaching in communion with the successor of Peter, and, in a particular way, to the bishop of Rome, pastor of the whole Church, when, without arriving at an infallible definition and without pronouncing in a "definitive manner," they propose in the exercise of the ordinary Magisterium a teaching that leads to better understanding of Revelation in matters of faith and morals. To this ordinary teaching the faithful "are to adhere to it with religious assent"422 which, though distinct from the assent of faith, is nonetheless an extension of it.

There is nothing in the Catechism about the laity, aka "wincam" having this charism. So in two different senses, there are three in your list that can be considered "infallible", not just one.

[mclees8]

Only the Father Son and Holy Ghost are infallible. The Magisterium and the pope can error in faith and morals. We are all compelled to examine and be led personally of the Holy Ghost and the word of God. Humanly there will always be corruptions in what is right and wrong

[mclees8]

The teaching of the Catholic church about infallibility as false and misleading. Rather than compelling  the church to be led of the spirit and read the word of God for themselves they are taught that men can be infallible therefore trustworthy in all authority and leadership so that they follow as blind sheep to the slaughter.

Do you not see what the pope has done preaching a double standard between Christ and the world and none are pricked in their spirit that something is not right.  This is not just a fault of the RCC but of Protestants also.  Many of them follow after the what ever is taught   them so lay laid back in Babylon.  I have stated the problem.   

[LexKnight]

The teaching of the Catholic church about infallibility as false and misleading. Rather than compelling  the church to be led of the spirit and read the word of God for themselves they are taught that men can be infallible therefore trustworthy in all authority and leadership so that they follow as blind sheep to the slaughter.

Do you not see what the pope has done preaching a double standard between Christ and the world and none are pricked in their spirit that something is not right.  This is not just a fault of the RCC but of Protestants also.  Many of them follow after the what ever is taught   them so lay laid back in Babylon.  I have stated the problem.

Completely agree. There is a significant danger in following a council or clergy with the mindset they have the word of God. Take note what the Lord states here.

Yet this you have: you hate the works of the Nicolaitans, which I also hate.

So also you have some who hold the teaching of the Nicolaitans. Therefore repent. If not, I will come to you soon and war against them with the sword of my mouth.

Nicolaitan comes from a component of 2 Greek words together meaning "Victory over the Laity," also known as a clergy. It's the same type when you think of hierarchy or even government. The Lord never designed such for His assembly, yet even to this day it's practiced. Look at how God responded when Israel demanded a king, and to be a kingdom.

The moment you give a group of men power to interpret the will of God like so, that is the moment you are asking for significant trouble for yourself. Both the Catholics and the Protestants are guilty of this, it is the underlying error of both.

[AVZ]

He's trolling Andre, been doing it for weeks.

of course you mean trawling as a fisher of men and women - wincam

You should consider throwing your net over the other side of the boat.
The method you are using right now is not really working.

[Ladonia]

Only the Father Son and Holy Ghost are infallible. The Magisterium and the pope can error in faith and morals. We are all compelled to examine and be led personally of the Holy Ghost and the word of God. Humanly there will always be corruptions in what is right and wrong

I see, so  you claim that only you interpreting the Scriptures along with the Holy Ghost can get it right (infallible), but the Pope and the Magisterium who also are guided by the Holy Ghost get things wrong (fallible). Sure. 

[Ladonia]

The teaching of the Catholic church about infallibility as false and misleading. Rather than compelling  the church to be led of the spirit and read the word of God for themselves they are taught that men can be infallible therefore trustworthy in all authority and leadership so that they follow as blind sheep to the slaughter.

Do you not see what the pope has done preaching a double standard between Christ and the world and none are pricked in their spirit that something is not right.  This is not just a fault of the RCC but of Protestants also.  Many of them follow after the what ever is taught   them so lay laid back in Babylon.  I have stated the problem.

We only follow the authority that God has placed over us on this earth as regards religious teaching. Had you been alive in Cornith, would you have denied the authority of St. Paul as he taught you what the truth was? Or would you have persisted with your go-it-alone religious learning?

[LexKnight]

Only the Father Son and Holy Ghost are infallible. The Magisterium and the pope can error in faith and morals. We are all compelled to examine and be led personally of the Holy Ghost and the word of God. Humanly there will always be corruptions in what is right and wrong

I see, so  you claim that only you interpreting the Scriptures along with the Holy Ghost can get it right (infallible), but the Pope and the Magisterium who also are guided by the Holy Ghost get things wrong (fallible). Sure. 

Unless they're not.

[MeMyself]

Why are you asking this question yet again?  Are you ignorant of your Catholic faith?

could it just be that you are  - bet you can't and daren't answer the question - wincam

  Man...you'll have a  with anyone won't you?  Even a fellow Catholic. 

[kensington]

Father, Son, Holy Spirit = Infallible.  Everyone else ever born = Fallible.

Read the word.

[AVZ]

The teaching of the Catholic church about infallibility as false and misleading. Rather than compelling  the church to be led of the spirit and read the word of God for themselves they are taught that men can be infallible therefore trustworthy in all authority and leadership so that they follow as blind sheep to the slaughter.

Do you not see what the pope has done preaching a double standard between Christ and the world and none are pricked in their spirit that something is not right.  This is not just a fault of the RCC but of Protestants also.  Many of them follow after the what ever is taught   them so lay laid back in Babylon.  I have stated the problem.

We only follow the authority that God has placed over us on this earth as regards religious teaching. Had you been alive in Cornith, would you have denied the authority of St. Paul as he taught you what the truth was? Or would you have persisted with your go-it-alone religious learning?

Well, most of the people in Corinth did not believe what Paul said. This just shows how fallible people are.

The same thing goes for Catholics. It doesn't matter whether the Pope claims he is fallible or not...what matters is that Catholics are so fallible that they believe him.

[wincam]

The teaching of the Catholic church about infallibility as false and misleading. Rather than compelling  the church to be led of the spirit and read the word of God for themselves they are taught that men can be infallible therefore trustworthy in all authority and leadership so that they follow as blind sheep to the slaughter.

Do you not see what the pope has done preaching a double standard between Christ and the world and none are pricked in their spirit that something is not right.  This is not just a fault of the RCC but of Protestants also.  Many of them follow after the what ever is taught   them so lay laid back in Babylon.  I have stated the problem.

We only follow the authority that God has placed over us on this earth as regards religious teaching. Had you been alive in Cornith, would you have denied the authority of St. Paul as he taught you what the truth was? Or would you have persisted with your go-it-alone religious learning?

Well, most of the people in Corinth did not believe what Paul said. This just shows how fallible people are.

The same thing goes for Catholics. It doesn't matter whether the Pope claims he is fallible or not...what matters is that Catholics are so fallible that they believe him.

of course you say this presuming your own infallibility whilst denying it to the Pope who like you is fallible but only 99.9% of his life - wincam 

[AVZ]

The teaching of the Catholic church about infallibility as false and misleading. Rather than compelling  the church to be led of the spirit and read the word of God for themselves they are taught that men can be infallible therefore trustworthy in all authority and leadership so that they follow as blind sheep to the slaughter.

Do you not see what the pope has done preaching a double standard between Christ and the world and none are pricked in their spirit that something is not right.  This is not just a fault of the RCC but of Protestants also.  Many of them follow after the what ever is taught   them so lay laid back in Babylon.  I have stated the problem.

We only follow the authority that God has placed over us on this earth as regards religious teaching. Had you been alive in Cornith, would you have denied the authority of St. Paul as he taught you what the truth was? Or would you have persisted with your go-it-alone religious learning?

Well, most of the people in Corinth did not believe what Paul said. This just shows how fallible people are.

The same thing goes for Catholics. It doesn't matter whether the Pope claims he is fallible or not...what matters is that Catholics are so fallible that they believe him.

of course you say this presuming your own infallibility whilst denying it to the Pope who like you is fallible but only 99.9% of his life - wincam

What I am saying is that the Pope can claim to be infallible, but you are unable to tell if he is speaking the truth because you are fallible.
The only person who can confirm a person to be infallible would be another infallible person.

[wincam]

indeed - like the Holy Spirit via Jesus Christ via the Pope - wincam

[LexKnight]

indeed - like the Holy Spirit via Jesus Christ via the Pope - wincam

You have a lot of faith in your pope, don't you? If I were to tell you that the very concept of your pope is based off an erred structure found in a system in opposition against the Lord, you would argue tooth and nail that I'm wrong and in error myself, am I right?

[wincam]

indeed - like the Holy Spirit via Jesus Christ via the Pope - wincam

You have a lot of faith in your pope, don't you? If I were to tell you that the very concept of your pope is based off an erred structure found in a system in opposition against the Lord, you would argue tooth and nail that I'm wrong and in error myself, am I right?

of course if I was foolish enough to accept that both you and your informant were infallible - wincam

[wincam]

Father, Son, Holy Spirit = Infallible.  Everyone else ever born = Fallible.

Read the word.

we know all that so how about answering the original question - wincam

[LexKnight]

indeed - like the Holy Spirit via Jesus Christ via the Pope - wincam

You have a lot of faith in your pope, don't you? If I were to tell you that the very concept of your pope is based off an erred structure found in a system in opposition against the Lord, you would argue tooth and nail that I'm wrong and in error myself, am I right?

of course if I was foolish enough to accept that both you and your informant were infallible - wincam

You don't make sense here, you mean you would argue against me if you were foolish enough to accept I'm infallible? Assuming you meant to word that differently, it's interesting you point it back to me like that.

The concept of a pope is found in a hierarchical system: the head of a clergy which is the head of its "fathers" which is the head of the laity. It was never a concept the Lord had in mind when establishing His Kingdom, He showed great disapproval when Israel demanded a king. That is, essentially, what you lot have done with the pope, and that is the error of the Catholic Church. It is not a system the Lord would bless, nor is it a system the Holy Spirit would possess. Considering certain historical evidence of popes demonstrating violent tendencies towards those who rejected the RCC, I can't but question the very nature of papal infallibility. The faith you demonstrate towards your pope is more akin to a cult, a leadership that has spiritual domination over the laity. If you believe that is what the Lord willed, then you simply don't know Him.

 

[Ladonia]

indeed - like the Holy Spirit via Jesus Christ via the Pope - wincam

You have a lot of faith in your pope, don't you? If I were to tell you that the very concept of your pope is based off an erred structure found in a system in opposition against the Lord, you would argue tooth and nail that I'm wrong and in error myself, am I right?

of course if I was foolish enough to accept that both you and your informant were infallible - wincam

You don't make sense here, you mean you would argue against me if you were foolish enough to accept I'm infallible? Assuming you meant to word that differently, it's interesting you point it back to me like that.

The concept of a pope is found in a hierarchical system: the head of a clergy which is the head of its "fathers" which is the head of the laity. It was never a concept the Lord had in mind when establishing His Kingdom, He showed great disapproval when Israel demanded a king. That is, essentially, what you lot have done with the pope, and that is the error of the Catholic Church. It is not a system the Lord would bless, nor is it a system the Holy Spirit would possess. Considering certain historical evidence of popes demonstrating violent tendencies towards those who rejected the RCC, I can't but question the very nature of papal infallibility. The faith you demonstrate towards your pope is more akin to a cult, a leadership that has spiritual domination over the laity. If you believe that is what the Lord willed, then you simply don't know Him.

Well surely the Lord never had the idea of a go-it-alone belief system either. He would simply have dispensed with having the apostles, there would have been no "sending out of anyone" or "laying on of hands" - He would have just written a book and told everyone to go at it themselves.

Of course Jesus had the hierarchical system in mind because that is what naturally developed after he set the whole thing in motion - that is the historical fact. The whole reality of God is hierarchical right down from Him through the OT to the NT. St. Peter himself was singled out so many times in the Scriptures and St. Paul took control of the evangelization process by likewise becoming a leader in the new Christian Church. It makes no sense that God would want to change a system that has proven itself from the beginning. 

[LexKnight]

indeed - like the Holy Spirit via Jesus Christ via the Pope - wincam

You have a lot of faith in your pope, don't you? If I were to tell you that the very concept of your pope is based off an erred structure found in a system in opposition against the Lord, you would argue tooth and nail that I'm wrong and in error myself, am I right?

of course if I was foolish enough to accept that both you and your informant were infallible - wincam

You don't make sense here, you mean you would argue against me if you were foolish enough to accept I'm infallible? Assuming you meant to word that differently, it's interesting you point it back to me like that.

The concept of a pope is found in a hierarchical system: the head of a clergy which is the head of its "fathers" which is the head of the laity. It was never a concept the Lord had in mind when establishing His Kingdom, He showed great disapproval when Israel demanded a king. That is, essentially, what you lot have done with the pope, and that is the error of the Catholic Church. It is not a system the Lord would bless, nor is it a system the Holy Spirit would possess. Considering certain historical evidence of popes demonstrating violent tendencies towards those who rejected the RCC, I can't but question the very nature of papal infallibility. The faith you demonstrate towards your pope is more akin to a cult, a leadership that has spiritual domination over the laity. If you believe that is what the Lord willed, then you simply don't know Him.

Well surely the Lord never had the idea of a go-it-alone belief system either. He would simply have dispensed with having the apostles, there would have been no "sending out of anyone" or "laying on of hands" - He would have just written a book and told everyone to go at it themselves.

Of course Jesus had the hierarchical system in mind because that is what naturally developed after he set the whole thing in motion - that is the historical fact. The whole reality of God is hierarchical right down from Him through the OT to the NT. St. Peter himself was singled out so many times in the Scriptures and St. Paul took control of the evangelization process by likewise becoming a leader in the new Christian Church. It makes no sense that God would want to change a system that has proven itself from the beginning. Duh!

It is a historical fact that for a majority of the last 2000 years the Church has been in a hierarchical system, but it is contrary to what the Lord intended. Apostles, prophets, teachers etc were functions, callings that typically had specific gifts with them, for the purpose of using those gifts to build the brothers up. Bishops and elders were the same thing, mature men of God who could discern what is of God and what is not, knew the Lord well, and was able to counsel and lead the assemblies to remain on The way. They weren't offices, they weren't positions, and they certainly wasn't titles (or Job would be in error). The Lord didn't come to establish a system of control Ladonia, He came to gather for Himself a family, brothers and sisters under one God. He Himself revealed in Revelation his feelings towards the same type of system the RCC is currently a part of.

A wise man will understand the lesson of Israel demanding a king with the great disapproval of God. The only thing your church has proven among its lengthy history is control does not work. It stifles the power of the Holy Spirit, prevents true spiritual growth among the disciples, and leads to great bloodshed and persecution (and it is an indisputable fact that the Roman Church has much blood on her hands). Case in point, your church is one of the last churches to be speaking about infallibility.

And before you guys mention this: I am not an advocate of the Protestant churches either, they are guilty of the very same sin. I think I've made myself clear on that with the responses I've left on this forum.


Edit: For the record, neither am I an advocate of what you call the go-it-alone method. The Lord did establish a Church for a reason, it's just not your church.

[AVZ]

indeed - like the Holy Spirit via Jesus Christ via the Pope - wincam

But Catholics too say they have the Holy Spirit, so what differs your Holy Spirit from the Pope's Holy Spirit?
If it is the same Holy Spirit, then you and I too in matters of faith and morals are infallible.
It's the same Holy Spirit talking.

Yet you declare yourself fallible when it comes to faith and morals.
Then equally the Pope too must be fallible, unless you and the Pope are speaking with different Holy Spirits.

[mclees8]

The teaching of the Catholic church about infallibility as false and misleading. Rather than compelling  the church to be led of the spirit and read the word of God for themselves they are taught that men can be infallible therefore trustworthy in all authority and leadership so that they follow as blind sheep to the slaughter.

Do you not see what the pope has done preaching a double standard between Christ and the world and none are pricked in their spirit that something is not right.  This is not just a fault of the RCC but of Protestants also.  Many of them follow after the what ever is taught   them so lay laid back in Babylon.  I have stated the problem.

We only follow the authority that God has placed over us on this earth as regards religious teaching. Had you been alive in Cornith, would you have denied the authority of St. Paul as he taught you what the truth was? Or would you have persisted with your go-it-alone religious learning?

I agree we need teachers to teach. I have sat in many schools of ministry. I have also learned from the school of hard nocks.  There was one promise that I made and kept, and that was I was going to find Gods purpose for me veven if it took the rest of my life.  I did not know that scripture at the time but I lived up to it that if any man come after God he must believe that God is and is rewarder of those who will diligently seek Him. Go it alone never. Jesus said he would always be with me. He talks to me in ways that bogles my mind. He comeforts me when I feel alone and weary. He stands me up when I fall. He loves me when all have forsaken me.  No Ladonia I don't go it alone

[wincam]

The teaching of the Catholic church about infallibility as false and misleading. Rather than compelling  the church to be led of the spirit and read the word of God for themselves they are taught that men can be infallible therefore trustworthy in all authority and leadership so that they follow as blind sheep to the slaughter.

Do you not see what the pope has done preaching a double standard between Christ and the world and none are pricked in their spirit that something is not right.  This is not just a fault of the RCC but of Protestants also.  Many of them follow after the what ever is taught   them so lay laid back in Babylon.  I have stated the problem.

We only follow the authority that God has placed over us on this earth as regards religious teaching. Had you been alive in Cornith, would you have denied the authority of St. Paul as he taught you what the truth was? Or would you have persisted with your go-it-alone religious learning?

I agree we need teachers to teach. I have sat in many schools of ministry. I have also learned from the school of hard nocks.  There was one promise that I made and kept, and that was I was going to find Gods purpose for me veven if it took the rest of my life.  I did not know that scripture at the time but I lived up to it that if any man come after God he must believe that God is and is rewarder of those who will diligently seek Him. Go it alone never. Jesus said he would always be with me. He talks to me in ways that bogles my mind. He comeforts me when I feel alone and weary. He stands me up when I fall. He loves me when all have forsaken me.  No Ladonia I don't go it alone

but of course you do and it seems someone that others also claim they go along with - but of course no one will claim they go along with human demons and non human devils - strange is it not, accusing Christ of causing confusion and lies - wincam

[mclees8]

The teaching of the Catholic church about infallibility as false and misleading. Rather than compelling  the church to be led of the spirit and read the word of God for themselves they are taught that men can be infallible therefore trustworthy in all authority and leadership so that they follow as blind sheep to the slaughter.

Do you not see what the pope has done preaching a double standard between Christ and the world and none are pricked in their spirit that something is not right.  This is not just a fault of the RCC but of Protestants also.  Many of them follow after the what ever is taught   them so lay laid back in Babylon.  I have stated the problem.

We only follow the authority that God has placed over us on this earth as regards religious teaching. Had you been alive in Cornith, would you have denied the authority of St. Paul as he taught you what the truth was? Or would you have persisted with your go-it-alone religious learning?

I agree we need teachers to teach. I have sat in many schools of ministry. I have also learned from the school of hard nocks.  There was one promise that I made and kept, and that was I was going to find Gods purpose for me veven if it took the rest of my life.  I did not know that scripture at the time but I lived up to it that if any man come after God he must believe that God is and is rewarder of those who will diligently seek Him. Go it alone never. Jesus said he would always be with me. He talks to me in ways that bogles my mind. He comeforts me when I feel alone and weary. He stands me up when I fall. He loves me when all have forsaken me.  No Ladonia I don't go it alone

but of course you do and it seems someone that others also claim they go along with - but of course no one will claim they go along with human demons and non human devils - strange is it not, accusing Christ of causing confusion and lies - wincam

Im sorry wincam but you speak of causing confusion. What do you call this answer to what I said.  You really need to see that it is you that causes confusion.

[skeeter]

The teaching of the Catholic church about infallibility as false and misleading. Rather than compelling  the church to be led of the spirit and read the word of God for themselves they are taught that men can be infallible therefore trustworthy in all authority and leadership so that they follow as blind sheep to the slaughter.

Do you not see what the pope has done preaching a double standard between Christ and the world and none are pricked in their spirit that something is not right.  This is not just a fault of the RCC but of Protestants also.  Many of them follow after the what ever is taught   them so lay laid back in Babylon.  I have stated the problem.

We only follow the authority that God has placed over us on this earth as regards religious teaching. Had you been alive in Cornith, would you have denied the authority of St. Paul as he taught you what the truth was? Or would you have persisted with your go-it-alone religious learning?

I agree we need teachers to teach. I have sat in many schools of ministry. I have also learned from the school of hard nocks.  There was one promise that I made and kept, and that was I was going to find Gods purpose for me veven if it took the rest of my life.  I did not know that scripture at the time but I lived up to it that if any man come after God he must believe that God is and is rewarder of those who will diligently seek Him. Go it alone never. Jesus said he would always be with me. He talks to me in ways that bogles my mind. He comeforts me when I feel alone and weary. He stands me up when I fall. He loves me when all have forsaken me.  No Ladonia I don't go it alone

beautifully put mclee!

[wincam]

like many another when I was young I did frequent doctor and sage and seer and heard great argument about this and that and evermore but came out by the same door wherein I went - wincam

[Catholica]

Father, Son, Holy Spirit = Infallible.  Everyone else ever born = Fallible.

Read the word.

we know all that so how about answering the original question - wincam

The original question has already been answered.  Aren't you satisfied with the Catholic answer?  Do you have any questions?

[Alan]

Father, Son, Holy Spirit = Infallible.  Everyone else ever born = Fallible.

Read the word.

we know all that so how about answering the original question - wincam

The original question has already been answered.  Aren't you satisfied with the Catholic answer?  Do you have any questions?

I've yet to see wincam agree with anyone on this site, talk about personal interpretation!  [size=78%] [/size]

[wincam]

Father, Son, Holy Spirit = Infallible.  Everyone else ever born = Fallible.

Read the word.

we know all that so how about answering the original question - wincam

The original question has already been answered.  Aren't you satisfied with the Catholic answer?  Do you have any questions?

I've yet to see wincam agree with anyone on this site, talk about personal interpretation!  [size=78%] [/size]

so that could indeed be a compliment and not vice versa - so who or what is really the problem - as I sadly recall other well known individuals known to one and all suffered the same sort of problems - try again - but meanwhile try to simply simply simply believe which I have it on good advice could be very difficult if not impossible - so don' blame me - wincam

[Catholica]

Father, Son, Holy Spirit = Infallible.  Everyone else ever born = Fallible.

Read the word.

we know all that so how about answering the original question - wincam

The original question has already been answered.  Aren't you satisfied with the Catholic answer?  Do you have any questions?

I've yet to see wincam agree with anyone on this site, talk about personal interpretation!  [size=78%] [/size]

so that could indeed be a compliment and not vice versa - so who or what is really the problem - as I sadly recall other well known individuals known to one and all suffered the same sort of problems - try again - but meanwhile try to simply simply simply believe which I have it on good advice could be very difficult if not impossible - so don' blame me - wincam

Jesus Christ didn't start arguments for the purpose of arguing.  And he didn't ask questions using false premises either.  You are no Jesus Christ.