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Author Topic: Members leaving Roman Catholicism in droves  (Read 21784 times)

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Offline Ladonia

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Re: Members leaving Roman Catholicism in droves
« Reply #90 on: December 13, 2011, 12:52:50 AM »
No, I can't respect a worldview that deliberately disobeys the explicit teachings (and examples) of Scripture. Asking your mother, would only confirm that you've been living in a continual state of deliberate disobedience from a very early age. Doesn't help your case.

I don't care about traditions. I care about obeying God. Christianity, by definition, is a gregarious fellowship.

Sorry, having fellowship is not a salvation issue. It is the worship of God through belief in the saving grace of His Son Jesus Christ that really matters. Your insistence on fellowship taking precedence over the worship of God is not a good thing for your soul. Besides, you are not setting a good  Christian example of fellowship here with me another Christian with your non respect of MY relationship with the Father. If your respnse is any indication of the type of fellowship you actually engage in, I am glad we don't attend the same church.  Have a nice day!
« Last Edit: December 13, 2011, 07:50:47 AM by Ladonia »

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Re: Members leaving Roman Catholicism in droves
« Reply #90 on: December 13, 2011, 12:52:50 AM »

Offline FireSword

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Re: Members leaving Roman Catholicism in droves
« Reply #91 on: December 13, 2011, 06:50:13 AM »
The protestants had no choice but to leave. They could either lie on the streets as beggars or to set up their own churches, since Rome was the one who excommunicated and deemed anybody who had questions and opinions as heretics. Maybe that's why the church banned prophesy, to prevent anyone speaking truths that are contrary to established traditions.

WRONG.  They HAD a choice and they chose Spiritual Pride.

Excommunication is a BIBLICAL practice intended to bring about the repentance of the unruly and is NOT intended to be a permanent situation.  It is a disciplinary practice.

Pointing out problems in the Church is not what incurs excommunication.  It was heresy that incurred it.  The changing of doctrine.  Heretical views such as Sola Scriptura and Sola Fide, as precribed by the likes of Luther and Calvin.  These and other men employed arrogance and spiritual pride in creating their own doctrines.  

It was a Revolt - not a Reform . . .


Out of this spiritual pride, came a beautiful reformation that changed the world. We now have many different ministries that each all have a unique flavour. This diversity of expression is impossible with the catholic church.
The most important thing about church is the spirit of God and fellowship with the saints, not traditions. If some want to keep their traditions, fine, but they cannot call what is lovely and pure, to be evil.
I believe we are on the verge of a third reformation.


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Re: Members leaving Roman Catholicism in droves
« Reply #91 on: December 13, 2011, 06:50:13 AM »

Elvisman

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Re: Members leaving Roman Catholicism in droves
« Reply #92 on: December 13, 2011, 08:15:26 AM »
Out of this spiritual pride, came a beautiful reformation that changed the world. We now have many different ministries that each all have a unique flavour. This diversity of expression is impossible with the catholic church.
The most important thing about church is the spirit of God and fellowship with the saints, not traditions. If some want to keep their traditions, fine, but they cannot call what is lovely and pure, to be evil.
I believe we are on the verge of a third reformation.

A THIRD Reformation?  When did the SECOND one happen?

The fact is that the "Reformation" was a low point in Church History.  It was the creation of the New Tower of Babel, where confusion was born and continues to spread like a cancer to this very day.

Jesus established ONE Church - sinful MEN decided that ONE was not enough and splintered His Church.

Jesus prayed for ONE united Body (John 17:21-23) - prideful MEN decided it was better to dissect that Body.

The most important thing about the Church is NOT mere fellowship of the saints.  It is the fact that it is the Body of Christ through which we are saved.

YOU talk about the Traditions of the Chruch being a bad thing.  Then, you praise the "unique flavour" that the splintering of Reformation caused.  Let's take a look at these many "unique flavours" born from this perversion:

Some Protestant denominations believe in baptismal regeneration, while others do not.
Some believe in soul-sleep, while others do not.
Some believe in the total depravity of man, while others do not.
Some believe in the Holy Trinity, while others do not.
Some believe in doctrine of “once saved, always saved

Offline Josiah

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Re: Members leaving Roman Catholicism in droves
« Reply #93 on: December 13, 2011, 09:07:11 AM »
.


Yes.   The RC Denomination is no better than any other denomination (and a lot worse than many).   It has a grand "unity" with NONE.   Well, it agrees with ITSELF, exclusively, solely, only, uniquely, individually - but ONLY in a very, very limited sense:  formally, officially, institutionally, and only in those matters that it itself currently regards as good to agree upon, but then AT LEAST as much is true for every denomination.  Yup.  The RC Denomination is just as bad - and probably worse - than any other in this regard.  Agreeing with NONE.  In unity with NONE.   Odd you call this "chaos" but  okay, I see  your point.





.

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Re: Members leaving Roman Catholicism in droves
« Reply #93 on: December 13, 2011, 09:07:11 AM »

Offline highrigger

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Re: Members leaving Roman Catholicism in droves
« Reply #94 on: December 13, 2011, 09:18:35 AM »
Quote
A THIRD Reformation?  When did the SECOND one happen?

The fact is that the "Reformation" was a low point in Church History.  It was the creation of the New Tower of Babel, where confusion was born and continues to spread like a cancer to this very day.

elvisman,

That I think is a misnomer. What they mean I believe is that the Reformation is continuing even among the protestant churches.
Even the Catholic church is continuing to reform thanks to the influence of protestant churches. You can see it in the softening of hardline Catholic teaching across the board and in the new translations of Catholic bibles that correct the mistranslations of the past which favored the Catholic standpoint and in the wave of Catholic scholars now in line with protestant scholars on issues such as the original intent of scripture and the real history that I have been trying to teach you on this forum.

Quote
Jesus established ONE Church - sinful MEN decided that ONE was not enough and splintered His Church.

We agree and we are part of the One Church. We are catholic no less than the Catholic church. Even the Catholic church in some quarters are coming around to his view. They realize that Peter was never a bishop of Rome or anywhere and the apostolic succession theory is being redefined to fit historical reality. I have been explaining that on this forum.

Quote
YOU talk about the Traditions of the Chruch being a bad thing.


No. Traditions do not have to be a bad thing at all. Protestants also have traditions. They just dont put their traditions above the words of Jesus and the apostles.

Quote
Some Protestant denominations believe in baptismal regeneration, while others do not.
Some believe in soul-sleep, while others do not.
Some believe in the total depravity of man, while others do not.
Some believe in the Holy Trinity, while others do not.
Some believe in doctrine of “once saved, always saved

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Re: Members leaving Roman Catholicism in droves
« Reply #94 on: December 13, 2011, 09:18:35 AM »



Elvisman

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Re: Members leaving Roman Catholicism in droves
« Reply #95 on: December 13, 2011, 10:47:45 AM »
elvisman,

That I think is a misnomer. What they mean I believe is that the Reformation is continuing even among the protestant churches.
Even the Catholic church is continuing to reform thanks to the influence of protestant churches. You can see it in the softening of hardline Catholic teaching across the board and in the new translations of Catholic bibles that correct the mistranslations of the past which favored the Catholic standpoint and in the wave of Catholic scholars now in line with protestant scholars on issues such as the original intent of scripture and the real history that I have been trying to teach you on this forum.

HUH??
WHAT Church teachings have "softened" due to Protestant influence?

We agree and we are part of the One Church. We are catholic no less than the Catholic church. Even the Catholic church in some quarters are coming around to his view. They realize that Peter was never a bishop of Rome or anywhere and the apostolic succession theory is being redefined to fit historical reality. I have been explaining that on this forum.

And you have failed because of an appalling lack of evidence.
The fact is that the Petrine Primacy had been proclaimed by the Catholic Church since the beginning.

No. Traditions do not have to be a bad thing at all. Protestants also have traditions. They just dont put their traditions above the words of Jesus and the apostles.


The difference is that Protestant traditions you speak of are not Apostolic.  They have all been created by sinful men after the 16th century.

Catholic Sacred tradition goes all the way back to the beginning.

Much of this is semantics. We are a lot closer than you imagine and certainly we are closer than the early churhes in the NT. There was variety in churches of the ECF era which are far closer to the Protestant point of view than the RCC. Some of your terms are ideas held by only a small minority. Most of the differences are minor compared to the differences between RCC and ECFs who for example had No Pope, No Magesterium, No priests, No sacrifice in the eucharist, No seven sacraments. I could go on a on.
But in the spirit of Ignatius in spite of our minor differences we are catholic.

In fact there are many differences between Catholics as I have discussed on this forum. The differences extend to what the CCC means by terminology. Many differences among Catholics and among denominations but One church. Peace, JohnR

And that's where you are wrong.  
In Protestantism, when you disagree with a doctrine - you simply break off and start your own Protestant denomination.

In the Catholic Church, if you disagree with a doctrine - you can also break off and start your own Protestant denomination.  The difference is that it is no longer Catholic.

In other words - the Catholic Church is united and monolithic.  Those who dissent from her teachings are called, "Protestants" . . .

Funny, how the list of "essential" teachings differs from Protestant sect to Protestant sect.
SOME unity . . .

cs80918

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Re: Members leaving Roman Catholicism in droves
« Reply #96 on: December 13, 2011, 11:20:57 AM »
More Than 1,000 Mexicans Leave Catholic Church Daily, Expert Says
read the article here    http://www.laht.com/article.asp?ArticleId=390745&CategoryId=14091

Pew Forum survey shows American Catholics are … leaving
http://churchmousec.wordpress.com/2011/03/16/pew-forum-survey-shows-american-catholics-are-leaving/

Latinos Leaving Catholic Church      http://www.ministrytodaymag.com/index.php/ministry-news/18908-latinos-leaving-catholic-church

Changes in Religious Affiliation in the U.S.      http://pewforum.org/Faith-in-Flux(3).aspx

German Catholics call for reform, many leaving       http://cathnews.co.nz/2011/06/03/german-catholics-call-for-reform-many-leaving/




God is calling his people out of the Catholic church so that his bride can come to a greater understanding and relationship with Jesus.

Offline Ladonia

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Re: Members leaving Roman Catholicism in droves
« Reply #97 on: December 13, 2011, 12:44:11 PM »
More Than 1,000 Mexicans Leave Catholic Church Daily, Expert Says
read the article here    http://www.laht.com/article.asp?ArticleId=390745&CategoryId=14091

Pew Forum survey shows American Catholics are … leaving
http://churchmousec.wordpress.com/2011/03/16/pew-forum-survey-shows-american-catholics-are-leaving/

Latinos Leaving Catholic Church      http://www.ministrytodaymag.com/index.php/ministry-news/18908-latinos-leaving-catholic-church

Changes in Religious Affiliation in the U.S.      http://pewforum.org/Faith-in-Flux(3).aspx

German Catholics call for reform, many leaving       http://cathnews.co.nz/2011/06/03/german-catholics-call-for-reform-many-leaving/




God is calling his people out of the Catholic church so that his bride can come to a greater understanding and relationship with Jesus.



We already have the greatest understanding and relationship with Jesus, it is called Holy Communion and consists of receiving Him into our bodies and having  our souls nurished as often as we can.

Our worship service, the Mass, is quite unlike the stale services that our other Christian friends attend every week. God is quite happy for us, the faithful members of His church, to remain there and worship Him in the proper manner. If only you could experience what we have, your soul would soar with joy.

Offline FireSword

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Re: Members leaving Roman Catholicism in droves
« Reply #98 on: December 13, 2011, 12:57:10 PM »
More Than 1,000 Mexicans Leave Catholic Church Daily, Expert Says
read the article here    http://www.laht.com/article.asp?ArticleId=390745&CategoryId=14091

Pew Forum survey shows American Catholics are … leaving
http://churchmousec.wordpress.com/2011/03/16/pew-forum-survey-shows-american-catholics-are-leaving/

Latinos Leaving Catholic Church      http://www.ministrytodaymag.com/index.php/ministry-news/18908-latinos-leaving-catholic-church

Changes in Religious Affiliation in the U.S.      http://pewforum.org/Faith-in-Flux(3).aspx

German Catholics call for reform, many leaving       http://cathnews.co.nz/2011/06/03/german-catholics-call-for-reform-many-leaving/




God is calling his people out of the Catholic church so that his bride can come to a greater understanding and relationship with Jesus.



We already have the greatest understanding and relationship with Jesus, it is called Holy Communion and consists of receiving Him into our bodies and having  our souls nurished as often as we can.

Our worship service, the Mass, is quite unlike the stale services that our other Christian friends attend every week. God is quite happy for us, the faithful members of His church, to remain there and worship Him in the proper manner. If only you could experience what we have, your soul would soar with joy.


Is that why you guys are always dancing and singing    ::clappingoverhead::

Elvisman

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Re: Members leaving Roman Catholicism in droves
« Reply #99 on: December 13, 2011, 01:15:13 PM »
God is calling his people out of the Catholic church so that his bride can come to a greater understanding and relationship with Jesus.


And he seems to be calling them out of all of the splintered Protestant sects into the fullness of Christ (Eph. 1:22-23):

Pastor and Flock Convert to Catholicism
http://www.catholiceducation.org/articles/apologetics/ap0077.html

Marian Revival among Protestants (Protestants flock to Jesus’ Mother)
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/2017488/posts

Anglo-Lutheran Catholics' to Enter Catholic Church through Anglican Ordinariate
http://www.catholic.org/hf/faith/story.php?id=40492

100 US Anglican parishes convert to Roman Catholic Church
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/religion/7375163/100-US-Anglican-parishes-convert-to-Roman-Catholic-Church.html

Why Are Evangelicals Turning Catholic?
http://www.thebereancall.org/node/6596

Born-again Catholics: Evangelicals crossing the Tiber
http://www.uscatholic.org/church/2011/07/born-again-catholics-evangelicals-crossing-tiber

A River Runs to It: A New Exodus of Protestants Streams to Rome
http://www.catholiceducation.org/articles/religion/re0252.html

Offline LightHammer

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Re: Members leaving Roman Catholicism in droves
« Reply #100 on: December 13, 2011, 03:02:57 PM »
Yea sadly I have learned to keep resources stored and rounds loaded. I would not be surprised if another militant Reformation is on the way. Jews, minorities, Catholics and those of other religions better watch out when the new European militant revolution uses religion to kill people off again.

All I know is I'm not going. Tell the next King Henry VII, Queen Elizabeth, Martin Luther, John Calvin etc. I will kill them before they kill me and my family.

Offline highrigger

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Re: Members leaving Roman Catholicism in droves
« Reply #101 on: December 13, 2011, 03:52:03 PM »
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I don't think the Church uses baptismal records to count "members in good standing".  There are several independent sources in the world that calculate these numbers as well, and they all come in the same ballpark. 

Catholica,

You dont think? Why dont you find out? I know many ex Catholics. I will bet they are still counted. I have a gradchild baptised in a Catholic church but being raised protestant. I will bet he is counted as a Catholic.

The Wall Street Journal ran a story that said only 31% of Catholics ever go to Mass. I wil bet your numbers are inflated by 3 times at least.

I have heard the expression "Once a Catholic, always a Catholic." That is what they go by but it is not so. Peace, JohnR

Offline FireSword

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Re: Members leaving Roman Catholicism in droves
« Reply #102 on: December 13, 2011, 03:58:38 PM »
Yea sadly I have learned to keep resources stored and rounds loaded. I would not be surprised if another militant Reformation is on the way. Jews, minorities, Catholics and those of other religions better watch out when the new European militant revolution uses religion to kill people off again.

All I know is I'm not going. Tell the next King Henry VII, Queen Elizabeth, Martin Luther, John Calvin etc. I will kill them before they kill me and my family.

I think all this debating has gotten to your head. Perhaps you should take a break.

Elvisman

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Re: Members leaving Roman Catholicism in droves
« Reply #103 on: December 13, 2011, 03:59:06 PM »
You dont think? Why dont you find out? I know many ex Catholics. I will bet they are still counted. I have a gradchild baptised in a Catholic church but being raised protestant. I will bet he is counted as a Catholic.

The Wall Street Journal ran a story that said only 31% of Catholics ever go to Mass. I wil bet your numbers are inflated by 3 times at least.

I have heard the expression "Once a Catholic, always a Catholic." That is what they go by but it is not so. Peace, JohnR

Just like you to completely disregard the astronomical numbers of those joining and returning to the Church
But, why should you start telling the truth now? ::shrug::

Offline LightHammer

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Re: Members leaving Roman Catholicism in droves
« Reply #104 on: December 13, 2011, 04:17:07 PM »
Yea sadly I have learned to keep resources stored and rounds loaded. I would not be surprised if another militant Reformation is on the way. Jews, minorities, Catholics and those of other religions better watch out when the new European militant revolution uses religion to kill people off again.

All I know is I'm not going. Tell the next King Henry VII, Queen Elizabeth, Martin Luther, John Calvin etc. I will kill them before they kill me and my family.

I think all this debating has gotten to your head. Perhaps you should take a break.

You're the one talking about another Reformation. That means a lot of dead Catholics and I'm a Catholic. How am I supposed to react? And you're not the first one to say this. Sabbatarians have been talking about people being forced to observe the Sabbath. All of the people who understand the Catholic Church the least are talking real reckless.

The Reformation was a blood bath and any talk of a new one means I need to pull an Ida B. Wells.