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Offline tinker

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Members leaving Roman Catholicism in droves
« on: Fri Dec 09, 2011 - 07:39:20 »
More Than 1,000 Mexicans Leave Catholic Church Daily, Expert Says
read the article here    http://www.laht.com/article.asp?ArticleId=390745&CategoryId=14091

Pew Forum survey shows American Catholics are … leaving
http://churchmousec.wordpress.com/2011/03/16/pew-forum-survey-shows-american-catholics-are-leaving/

Latinos Leaving Catholic Church      http://www.ministrytodaymag.com/index.php/ministry-news/18908-latinos-leaving-catholic-church

Changes in Religious Affiliation in the U.S.      http://pewforum.org/Faith-in-Flux(3).aspx

German Catholics call for reform, many leaving       http://cathnews.co.nz/2011/06/03/german-catholics-call-for-reform-many-leaving/


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Members leaving Roman Catholicism in droves
« on: Fri Dec 09, 2011 - 07:39:20 »

Offline Catholica

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Re: Members leaving Roman Catholicism in droves
« Reply #1 on: Fri Dec 09, 2011 - 08:02:53 »
More Than 1,000 Mexicans Leave Catholic Church Daily, Expert Says
read the article here    http://www.laht.com/article.asp?ArticleId=390745&CategoryId=14091

Pew Forum survey shows American Catholics are … leaving
http://churchmousec.wordpress.com/2011/03/16/pew-forum-survey-shows-american-catholics-are-leaving/

Latinos Leaving Catholic Church      http://www.ministrytodaymag.com/index.php/ministry-news/18908-latinos-leaving-catholic-church

Changes in Religious Affiliation in the U.S.      http://pewforum.org/Faith-in-Flux(3).aspx

German Catholics call for reform, many leaving       http://cathnews.co.nz/2011/06/03/german-catholics-call-for-reform-many-leaving/



For the salvation of disaffected souls, for those who have turned away from the most Holy Eucharist, in sorrow we turn to you, O Lord, and ask that you heal their hearts.  We offer our sorrows and our faith in your power to bring them back to the Truth, in union with the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass, for the salvation of all men, especially those who have turned away from the Holy Catholic Church that you established, who are so ungrateful for the great gift you have bestowed on us: your own self in the Most Holy Eucharist.

I offer this penance now for the souls leaving Your Holy Catholic Church.
Penance for Offenses against the Most Holy Eucharist

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Re: Members leaving Roman Catholicism in droves
« Reply #1 on: Fri Dec 09, 2011 - 08:02:53 »

Offline Selene

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Re: Members leaving Roman Catholicism in droves
« Reply #2 on: Fri Dec 09, 2011 - 08:10:36 »
For the salvation of disaffected souls, for those who have turned away from the most Holy Eucharist, in sorrow we turn to you, O Lord, and ask that you heal their hearts.  We offer our sorrows and our faith in your power to bring them back to the Truth, in union with the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass, for the salvation of all men, especially those who have turned away from the Holy Catholic Church that you established, who are so ungrateful for the great gift you have bestowed on us: your own self in the Most Holy Eucharist.

I offer this penance now for the souls leaving Your Holy Catholic Church.
Penance for Offenses against the Most Holy Eucharist


They are also in my prayers.  May God work His way in them so that they may return to the true Church - the Roman Catholic Church with Christ as her Head.   ::prayinghard::

Elvisman

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Re: Members leaving Roman Catholicism in droves
« Reply #3 on: Fri Dec 09, 2011 - 09:05:12 »
More Than 1,000 Mexicans Leave Catholic Church Daily, Expert Says
read the article here    http://www.laht.com/article.asp?ArticleId=390745&CategoryId=14091

Pew Forum survey shows American Catholics are … leaving
http://churchmousec.wordpress.com/2011/03/16/pew-forum-survey-shows-american-catholics-are-leaving/

Latinos Leaving Catholic Church      http://www.ministrytodaymag.com/index.php/ministry-news/18908-latinos-leaving-catholic-church

Changes in Religious Affiliation in the U.S.      http://pewforum.org/Faith-in-Flux(3).aspx

German Catholics call for reform, many leaving       http://cathnews.co.nz/2011/06/03/german-catholics-call-for-reform-many-leaving/


Hey, Tinker - for as many Catholics who leave the Church - THAT many more Protestants FLOCK to her in droves . . .

Pastor and Flock Convert to Catholicism
http://www.catholiceducation.org/articles/apologetics/ap0077.html

Marian Revival among Protestants (Protestants flock to Jesus’ Mother)
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/2017488/posts

Anglo-Lutheran Catholics' to Enter Catholic Church through Anglican Ordinariate
http://www.catholic.org/hf/faith/story.php?id=40492

100 US Anglican parishes convert to Roman Catholic Church
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/religion/7375163/100-US-Anglican-parishes-convert-to-Roman-Catholic-Church.html

Why Are Evangelicals Turning Catholic?
http://www.thebereancall.org/node/6596

Born-again Catholics: Evangelicals crossing the Tiber
http://www.uscatholic.org/church/2011/07/born-again-catholics-evangelicals-crossing-tiber

A River Runs to It: A New Exodus of Protestants Streams to Rome
http://www.catholiceducation.org/articles/religion/re0252.html

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Re: Members leaving Roman Catholicism in droves
« Reply #3 on: Fri Dec 09, 2011 - 09:05:12 »

Offline highrigger

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Re: Members leaving Roman Catholicism in droves
« Reply #4 on: Fri Dec 09, 2011 - 09:27:35 »
Quote
For the salvation of disaffected souls, for those who have turned away from the most Holy Eucharist

Catholica,

Not to worry. They are welcome at the Lords Table in my church. We see them every day. They are responding to Christs unconditional open invitation. Peace, JohnR

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Re: Members leaving Roman Catholicism in droves
« Reply #4 on: Fri Dec 09, 2011 - 09:27:35 »



Offline Ladonia

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Re: Members leaving Roman Catholicism in droves
« Reply #5 on: Fri Dec 09, 2011 - 09:29:07 »
Quote
For the salvation of disaffected souls, for those who have turned away from the most Holy Eucharist

Catholica,

Not to worry. They are welcome at the Lords Table in my church. We see them every day. They are responding to Christs unconditional open invitation. Peace, JohnR

So Methodism is on the upswing?

Offline Catholica

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Re: Members leaving Roman Catholicism in droves
« Reply #6 on: Fri Dec 09, 2011 - 09:49:34 »
Quote
For the salvation of disaffected souls, for those who have turned away from the most Holy Eucharist

Catholica,

Not to worry. They are welcome at the Lords Table in my church. We see them every day. They are responding to Christs unconditional open invitation. Peace, JohnR

I don't worry, they are in God's hands, especially through my prayers and the prayers of others here.

BTW I Praise God for your presence on the forum today.

Thank you Lord for bringing us the company of JohnR, aka highrigger.  Let us grow a closer bond in unity and truth.  Bring us to a spirit of charity that best reflects that love which you showed to mankind through your Son Jesus, who was Truth incarnate.  Please bless John in his day, and enkindle in him the saving fire of your love, to your greater glory.  Amen.

Elvisman

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Re: Members leaving Roman Catholicism in droves
« Reply #7 on: Fri Dec 09, 2011 - 10:39:13 »

Not to worry. They are welcome at the Lords Table in my church. We see them every day. They are responding to Christs unconditional open invitation. Peace, JohnR


And they are welcome in the Catholic Church, wherein the Lord is spiritually and PHYSICALLY present - not just symbolically as he is in your ecclesial community . . .

Pastor and Flock Convert to Catholicism
http://www.catholiceducation.org/articles/apologetics/ap0077.html

Marian Revival among Protestants (Protestants flock to Jesus’ Mother)
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/2017488/posts

Anglo-Lutheran Catholics' to Enter Catholic Church through Anglican Ordinariate
http://www.catholic.org/hf/faith/story.php?id=40492

100 US Anglican parishes convert to Roman Catholic Church
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/religion/7375163/100-US-Anglican-parishes-convert-to-Roman-Catholic-Church.html

Why Are Evangelicals Turning Catholic?
http://www.thebereancall.org/node/6596

Born-again Catholics: Evangelicals crossing the Tiber
http://www.uscatholic.org/church/2011/07/born-again-catholics-evangelicals-crossing-tiber

A River Runs to It: A New Exodus of Protestants Streams to Rome
http://www.catholiceducation.org/articles/religion/re0252.html

Offline highrigger

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Re: Members leaving Roman Catholicism in droves
« Reply #8 on: Fri Dec 09, 2011 - 17:41:33 »
Quote
And they are welcome in the Catholic Church, wherein the Lord is spiritually and PHYSICALLY present - not just symbolically as he is in your ecclesial community . . .

elvisman,

Back to the topic, 1 out of 10 Americans is an EX-Catholic. I meet them all the time..The real problem is most of them dont just go to another denomination. They become atheists, which shows their disgust with what they have been trught.
Shame. Shame.  Peace, JohnR

Offline LightHammer

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Re: Members leaving Roman Catholicism in droves
« Reply #9 on: Fri Dec 09, 2011 - 21:04:40 »
Quote
And they are welcome in the Catholic Church, wherein the Lord is spiritually and PHYSICALLY present - not just symbolically as he is in your ecclesial community . . .

elvisman,

Back to the topic, 1 out of 10 Americans is an EX-Catholic. I meet them all the time..The real problem is most of them dont just go to another denomination. They become atheists, which shows their disgust with what they have been trught.
Shame. Shame.  Peace, JohnR

Thats weird. I'm always hearing testimony of people coming to the Catholic Church not leaving. I guess God is on the rise hear in Indiana. I'll pray for the rest of you all's states.

Offline Catholica

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Re: Members leaving Roman Catholicism in droves
« Reply #10 on: Sat Dec 10, 2011 - 00:40:41 »
Quote
And they are welcome in the Catholic Church, wherein the Lord is spiritually and PHYSICALLY present - not just symbolically as he is in your ecclesial community . . .

elvisman,

Back to the topic, 1 out of 10 Americans is an EX-Catholic. I meet them all the time..The real problem is most of them dont just go to another denomination. They become atheists, which shows their disgust with what they have been trught.
Shame. Shame.  Peace, JohnR

Nice anecdotal evidence, but likely if they are becoming atheist it is because they refuse to submit to God's moral law, or they are simply apathetic.  Few Catholics leave because they are "disgusted".  And if they are, its likely that they don't understand the faith that well.

The Catholic faith is exceedingly beautiful.  Hard to live, but beautiful.

Offline stevehut

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Re: Members leaving Roman Catholicism in droves
« Reply #11 on: Sat Dec 10, 2011 - 01:46:22 »
likely if they are becoming atheist it is because they refuse to submit to God's moral law

Or perhaps, in my case, they were eight year-olds who couldn't make sense of the Latin Mass.  My whole family found it strange that God required us to worship him in a foreign language.

We left in 1970. We were active in the parish, and lots of people knew us, but no one seemed to miss us when we left. No one called or came by to visit. I found this strange, because up until this time, we were in each other's homes almost every week for a couple of decades (beginning before I was born).

Recently I visited the rectory, and told them my name. The secretary pulled out a dusty old ledger and, indeed, found all of our names in there as members in good standing.  They don't know that both of my parents are dead, and my sister stopped believing in anything at all, after high school.

This is why I don't trust it when they claim 1 billion members. How many other dead people are they claiming as members? How many apostates who never said goodbye on their way out the door?

Offline LightHammer

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Re: Members leaving Roman Catholicism in droves
« Reply #12 on: Sat Dec 10, 2011 - 02:50:48 »
Quote
Or perhaps, in my case, they were eight year-olds who couldn't make sense of the Latin Mass.  My whole family found it strange that God required us to worship him in a foreign language.


Seeing how you were eight I doubt you understood much of anything. However if your parents wanted to know they needed only to read a book. Its not like knowing the history of the Church they are affiliated with is such an outrageous thing to expect from people.

I know why Mass was in Latin and I don't even have kids. I guarantee you my children will understand why Mass used to only be in Latin.

Hosea 4:6 My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge,

Quote
We left in 1970. We were active in the parish, and lots of people knew us, but no one seemed to miss us when we left. No one called or came by to visit. I found this strange, because up until this time, we were in each other's homes almost every week for a couple of decades (beginning before I was born).

Quote
Recently I visited the rectory, and told them my name. The secretary pulled out a dusty old ledger and, indeed, found all of our names in there as members in good standing.  They don't know that both of my parents are dead, and my sister stopped believing in anything at all, after high school.

This is why I don't trust it when they claim 1 billion members. How many other dead people are they claiming as members? How many apostates who never said goodbye on their way out the door?

I don't see how the administrative fallings of your former parish has anything to do with this thread or with what you quoted from Catholica but ok.

Actually we report just a little over a billion memebers. Of course admin is not air tight.I must say I find it kind of odd that your family was so active in your community and parish but when decided to leave never told anyone. You guys just up and left without talking to your priests about the doubts you were having about Catholicism and you didn't even bother to say goodbye? Kind of harsh. No wonder no one seemed to miss you. My family is as disfunctional as the Jackson 5 but even if I just left eventually my Dad would inquire about me.

« Last Edit: Sat Dec 10, 2011 - 04:52:05 by LightHammer »

Offline FireSword

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Re: Members leaving Roman Catholicism in droves
« Reply #13 on: Sat Dec 10, 2011 - 04:21:30 »
I think a lot of christians are no longer interested in how church does it, but seek a spiritual relationship with Jesus. Often church hinders that relationship and so decide to leave.

Often their particular church does not feed the sheep, so the sheep are scattered.

Offline Catholica

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Re: Members leaving Roman Catholicism in droves
« Reply #14 on: Sat Dec 10, 2011 - 07:07:24 »
likely if they are becoming atheist it is because they refuse to submit to God's moral law

Or perhaps, in my case, they were eight year-olds who couldn't make sense of the Latin Mass.  My whole family found it strange that God required us to worship him in a foreign language.

We left in 1970. We were active in the parish, and lots of people knew us, but no one seemed to miss us when we left. No one called or came by to visit. I found this strange, because up until this time, we were in each other's homes almost every week for a couple of decades (beginning before I was born).

I find your story odd.  Not odd that you left, but especially odd because you say that you left in 1970 because you couldn't understand the mass in Latin.  In fact, 1970 was the year that mass started being said completely in English, with some parts of the Latin Mass being said in English starting in 1967.  Are you sure it wasn't the other way around (for your parents), that it wasn't was that they left because the mass was changing and was going to be said in English?  That would make far more sense, and that might describe why they stopped going to mass and no one noticed.  There was likely a lot of backlash at that time against the English mass, and especially the big changes to it not counting English.

But still, I don't understand why you would have left in 1970, as that was the year English came out.  I think there had to be more reason than that.  Not that I think you are lying, but it just doesn't make sense to me.

Recently I visited the rectory, and told them my name. The secretary pulled out a dusty old ledger and, indeed, found all of our names in there as members in good standing.  They don't know that both of my parents are dead, and my sister stopped believing in anything at all, after high school.

This is why I don't trust it when they claim 1 billion members. How many other dead people are they claiming as members? How many apostates who never said goodbye on their way out the door?

I don't think the Church uses baptismal records to count "members in good standing".  There are several independent sources in the world that calculate these numbers as well, and they all come in the same ballpark.  
« Last Edit: Sat Dec 10, 2011 - 12:12:34 by Catholica »

Elvisman

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Re: Members leaving Roman Catholicism in droves
« Reply #15 on: Sat Dec 10, 2011 - 08:36:41 »
elvisman,

Back to the topic, 1 out of 10 Americans is an EX-Catholic. I meet them all the time..The real problem is most of them dont just go to another denomination. They become atheists, which shows their disgust with what they have been trught.
Shame. Shame.  Peace, JohnR

I was never OFF-topic, my anti-Catholic friend.  I was merely showing that the tide washes BOTH ways.

We have scores of ex-Protestants in our parish.  Our RCIA classes are getting bigger all the time.  However, if you gauge the TRUE Church by how many people stay or leave, don't forget what happened in John 6.

It is estmated that at least HALF or more of Jesus' followers left him (John 6:66) because they couldn't handle the reality of His Real Presence of the Eucharist that he was explaining to them.  They freaked out - like MOST Protestants today - and walked away from him.

As for percentages of Americans - you must ALSO remember, my angry friend, out of ALL the Christian and psueudo-Christian groups in the world - Catholics outnumber ALL Protestant sects - COMBINED.  So, of course the percentages of those leaving would seem higher than the rest.

If the hundreds of ex-Catholics in MY parish are a microcosm of Protestants in general - MOST of them were totally ignorant of Cathollic teaching - much like you, my bitter, anti-Catholic friend . . .

Offline highrigger

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Re: Members leaving Roman Catholicism in droves
« Reply #16 on: Sat Dec 10, 2011 - 08:45:32 »
Quote
If the hundreds of ex-Catholics in MY parish are a microcosm of Protestants in general - MOST of them were totally ignorant of Cathollic teaching - much like you, my bitter, anti-Catholic friend . . .

elvisman,

I know far more about it than you do yourself. I am not bitter or anti-Catholic, but simply bringing the truth to you.
I notice you call me friend but you sound very sarcastic. In other words you dont mean it at all.
There is a word for those that knowingly say something that is not true. But, unlike you, I am too
nice to use that word for anyone. Peace, JohnR

Elvisman

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Re: Members leaving Roman Catholicism in droves
« Reply #17 on: Sat Dec 10, 2011 - 08:50:05 »
Quote
If the hundreds of ex-Catholics in MY parish are a microcosm of Protestants in general - MOST of them were totally ignorant of Cathollic teaching - much like you, my bitter, anti-Catholic friend . . .

elvisman,

I know far more about it than you do yourself. I am not bitter or anti-Catholic, but simply bringing the truth to you.
I notice you call me friend but you sound very sarcastic. In other words you dont mean it at all.
There is a word for those that knowingly say something that is not true. But, unlike you, I am too
nice to use that word for anyone. Peace, JohnR

I consider ALL to be my friend - even those who lie about the Church to make their arguments more interesting.
I simply refer to you as you present yourself:
An angry anti-Catholic.

Matt. 7:16
"By their fruits, you shall know them."

Offline highrigger

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Re: Members leaving Roman Catholicism in droves
« Reply #18 on: Sat Dec 10, 2011 - 09:01:27 »
Quote
I consider ALL to be my friend - even those who lie about the Church to make their arguments more interesting.
I simply refer to you as you present yourself:
An angry anti-Catholic.

elvisman,

Friends do not behave as you do. Obviously you were sarcastic and now you try to back out of it. Anyone can see through it.
I am not angry or anti-Catholic. Nor do I call names or flaime as you do. I just try to bring the truth to you if you can handle it.
Peace, JohnR

Offline stevehut

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Re: Members leaving Roman Catholicism in droves
« Reply #19 on: Sat Dec 10, 2011 - 11:07:00 »
Hammer, re the Latin Mass, I'm aware of the reasons. But knowing that didn't help any of us be edified by the experience.

In my current church, if I miss one Sunday meeting, someone will call or drop by. I do the same for others. That's what friends do for each other, especially Christians.  If someone is having doubts about their faith, it's my responsibility to recognize the early signs and offer my help. Many people have done the same for me, and I thank God every day for such a caring fellowship.

A handful of times in my twenties, I thought I might return. I went to Mass and tried to get into it. Then I attempted to talk to a few people, and they couldn't be bothered. I found these parishes to be the unfriendliest places in town.

Among my Catholic friends, they think it's weird to have such an intimate fellowship. They just want to  hear Mass and go home.

« Last Edit: Sat Dec 10, 2011 - 11:18:14 by stevehut »

Offline highrigger

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Re: Members leaving Roman Catholicism in droves
« Reply #20 on: Sat Dec 10, 2011 - 11:33:09 »
Quote
Hammer, re the Latin Mass, I'm aware of the reasons. But knowing that didn't help any of us be edified by the experience.

In my current church, if I miss one Sunday meeting, someone will call or drop by. I do the same for others. That's what friends do for each other, especially Christians.  If someone is having doubts about their faith, it's my responsibility to recognize the early signs and offer my help. Many people have done the same for me, and I thank God every day for such a caring fellowship.

A handful of times in my twenties, I thought I might return. I went to Mass and tried to get into it. Then I attempted to talk to a few people, and they couldn't be bothered. I found these parishes to be the unfriendliest places in town.

Among my Catholic friends, they think it's weird to have such an intimate fellowship. They just want to  hear Mass and go home.

Steve,

We keep in touch with others in my church also. I get seveal emalls a week from the church. Plian fact as reported in the Wall Street Journal is that only 31% of Catholics go to Mass at all. So all the numbers they brag about should be cut by 2/3.
They probably still count you as a Catholic as well as my grandson who was baptised in the Catholic church but being raised as a protestant. Their numbers dont mean anything. Peace, JohnR


Elvisman

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Re: Members leaving Roman Catholicism in droves
« Reply #21 on: Sat Dec 10, 2011 - 11:44:46 »
elvisman,

Friends do not behave as you do. Obviously you were sarcastic and now you try to back out of it. Anyone can see through it.
I am not angry or anti-Catholic. Nor do I call names or flaime as you do. I just try to bring the truth to you if you can handle it.
Peace, JohnR

Nobody on this forum has ever made me angry - especially you.

You see - I'm not interested in whether you or any other anti-Catholic accepts Catholic Doctrine.  That is between you and God.

You are an anti-Catholic.  You have some sort of axe to grind with the Church.  The reason I say this is because you resort to lies to make your points. 

I rely on Scripture, History and official position of the Church to debate.  I don't lie or state my personal opinions on this forum.  I don't quote writers who actually contradict each other as you do

MY job is to expose you because of your LIESNot because you don't accept Catholic doctrine - I couldn't care less about that.  It's because you are breaking God's Commandment by bearing false witness against his Curch.

It's really that simple. 
You continue to lie - so I continue to defend so that others won't be sucked in by your lies.

Offline Josiah

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Re: Members leaving Roman Catholicism in droves
« Reply #22 on: Sat Dec 10, 2011 - 11:52:43 »
More Than 1,000 Mexicans Leave Catholic Church Daily, Expert Says
read the article here    http://www.laht.com/article.asp?ArticleId=390745&CategoryId=14091

Pew Forum survey shows American Catholics are … leaving
http://churchmousec.wordpress.com/2011/03/16/pew-forum-survey-shows-american-catholics-are-leaving/

Latinos Leaving Catholic Church      http://www.ministrytodaymag.com/index.php/ministry-news/18908-latinos-leaving-catholic-church

Changes in Religious Affiliation in the U.S.      http://pewforum.org/Faith-in-Flux(3).aspx

German Catholics call for reform, many leaving       http://cathnews.co.nz/2011/06/03/german-catholics-call-for-reform-many-leaving/


Hey, Tinker - for as many Catholics who leave the Church - THAT many more Protestants FLOCK to her in droves . . .

Pastor and Flock Convert to Catholicism
http://www.catholiceducation.org/articles/apologetics/ap0077.html

Marian Revival among Protestants (Protestants flock to Jesus’ Mother)
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/2017488/posts

Anglo-Lutheran Catholics' to Enter Catholic Church through Anglican Ordinariate
http://www.catholic.org/hf/faith/story.php?id=40492

100 US Anglican parishes convert to Roman Catholic Church
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/religion/7375163/100-US-Anglican-parishes-convert-to-Roman-Catholic-Church.html

Why Are Evangelicals Turning Catholic?
http://www.thebereancall.org/node/6596

Born-again Catholics: Evangelicals crossing the Tiber
http://www.uscatholic.org/church/2011/07/born-again-catholics-evangelicals-crossing-tiber

A River Runs to It: A New Exodus of Protestants Streams to Rome
http://www.catholiceducation.org/articles/religion/re0252.html




Elvis,


While it is true that some Protestants to 'swim the Tibor' - as all the data  shows (and as your own experience I'm SURE confirms), the pales in comparison to EXODUS happening in the RCC - in Europe, in the USA and  Canada, and in much of Latin America.   You know this....

I don't rejoice in it (I find it very sad) and it's generally true in Protestantism too, although generally not on the same scale.   It's not a pure RC Denominational thing, CHRISTIANITY is in trouble (at least in it's institutional forms).  i


About half of my Lutheran congregation are former Catholics (including the pastor).  This is FAR from unique in Protestant congregations.  My Catholic parish, which is about 40 years old now, is fairly stable in attendance but this is because the huge exodus of Catholics of Italian, German, Polish, etc.  ancestory has been replaced by a flood of Latinos and Latinas - so much so that the entire ethnic characterization of the parish has changed; but if it were not for a flood of immigrants from Mexico (mostly poor, some illegal), the parish would be very small (if in existence at all); this is quite common of Catholicism around here.   And of course, it has benefited from what was once a higher than normal birthrate (helping to mitigate the exodus from Catholicism, especially as compared to Protestant groups), but this has changed.  Catholics have fully embraced contraception and birth control, and now (even among the Latin immigrants) no longer have a higher birth rate.  

Facts are facts, my fundamentalist Catholic friend.  They are sad, I agree, but they are facts nonetheless.  And anyway your TRY to spin it, it is what it is:   Catholicism is experiencing a huge exodus.   SOME of those are wondering in Protestantism (far more the other way around), but most of those Catholics are just walking away from the church period, perhaps from Christianity.   In DROVES.   In the USA, it's mitigated a bit by 2,000,000 Catholics EACH YEAR moving here, and in some third world nations by a still higher than normal birth rate (which is changing FAST).  




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Elvisman

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Re: Members leaving Roman Catholicism in droves
« Reply #23 on: Sat Dec 10, 2011 - 12:00:47 »

Elvis,


While it is true that some Protestants to 'swim the Tibor' - as all the data  shows (and as your own experience I'm SURE confirms), the pales in comparison to EXODUS happening in the RCC - in Europe, in the USA and  Canada, and in much of Latin America.   You know this....

I don't rejoice in it (I find it very sad) and it's generally true in Protestantism too, although generally not on the same scale.   It's not a pure RC Denominational thing, CHRISTIANITY is in trouble (at least in it's institutional forms).  i


About half of my Lutheran congregation are former Catholics (including the pastor).  This is FAR from unique in Protestant congregations.  My Catholic parish, which is about 40 years old now, is fairly stable in attendance but this is because the huge exodus of Catholics of Italian, German, Polish, etc.  ancestory has been replaced by a flood of Latinos and Latinas - so much so that the entire ethnic characterization of the parish has changed; but if it were not for a flood of immigrants from Mexico (mostly poor, some illegal), the parish would be very small (if in existence at all); this is quite common of Catholicism around here.   And of course, it has benefited from what was once a higher than normal birthrate (helping to mitigate the exodus from Catholicism, especially as compared to Protestant groups), but this has changed.  Catholics have fully embraced contraception and birth control, and now (even among the Latin immigrants) no longer have a higher birth rate.  

Facts are facts, my fundamentalist Catholic friend.  They are sad, I agree, but they are facts nonetheless.  And anyway your TRY to spin it, it is what it is:   Catholicism is experiencing a huge exodus.   SOME of those are wondering in Protestantism (far more the other way around), but most of those Catholics are just walking away from the church period, perhaps from Christianity.   In DROVES.   In the USA, it's mitigated a bit by 2,000,000 Catholics EACH YEAR moving here, and in some third world nations by a still higher than normal birth rate (which is changing FAST).  

And if exodus from the True Church were an indication that it is NOT the True Church - Jesus wouldn't have had the mass exodus that he hdidin John 6:66.

People leave because we preach a hard Gospel - not a false "feel-good gospel".
Jesus also preached a hard Gospel and look what happened to HIS congregation . . .

The fact is, my angry friend - that you left the Catholic Church out of pure ignorance and now you fight against her because of your pride.  It is blindingly clear in your ignorant rants against the Church.  You NEVER knew your Catholic faith and that's why you left.  You were instead, sucked in by the false feel-good message - tailored for the 21st century crowd.

That's why MOST people leave God's Church.

Offline stevehut

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Re: Members leaving Roman Catholicism in droves
« Reply #24 on: Sat Dec 10, 2011 - 13:08:57 »
The fact is, my angry friend - that you left the Catholic Church out of pure ignorance and now you fight against her because of your pride.  It is blindingly clear in your ignorant rants against the Church.  You NEVER knew your Catholic faith and that's why you left.  You were instead, sucked in by the false feel-good message - tailored for the 21st century crowd.

You're calling us prideful?  ::eek:: Somehow I don't think you're angry rhetoric is any better.

Offline highrigger

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Re: Members leaving Roman Catholicism in droves
« Reply #25 on: Sat Dec 10, 2011 - 13:17:16 »
Quote
That's why MOST people leave God's Church.

elvisman,

I imagine most left because they got tired of Catholics trying to make them feel guilty and rejected by God if they could not take the Catholic doctrines fabricated hundreds of years after the apostles. And most of those that left became atheists showing your church did such a poor job of teaching the love of God in Christ.

They only knew ravings and rantings like you illustrate in every post. Who wants that? Peace, JohnR

Offline stevehut

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Re: Members leaving Roman Catholicism in droves
« Reply #26 on: Sat Dec 10, 2011 - 13:30:53 »
I imagine most left because they got tired of Catholics trying to make them feel guilty and rejected by God

For us it was the indecipherable worship service and the coldness of the fellowship.

When I tried to return about 20 years later the Mass was easier to follow but the people were colder than ever.

Elvisman

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Re: Members leaving Roman Catholicism in droves
« Reply #27 on: Sat Dec 10, 2011 - 14:06:37 »
You're calling us prideful?  ::eek:: Somehow I don't think you're angry rhetoric is any better.

Hey - if you left the Body of Christ, the Church - because you thought the people were "too cold" - you left out of ignorance, pal.

WHY would you leave God because of mere men?
1 Tim. 4:1 says is all . . .
"But the Spirit explicitly says that in later times some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons."

Offline Josiah

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Re: Members leaving Roman Catholicism in droves
« Reply #28 on: Sat Dec 10, 2011 - 14:09:07 »

Elvis,


While it is true that some Protestants to 'swim the Tibor' - as all the data  shows (and as your own experience I'm SURE confirms), the pales in comparison to EXODUS happening in the RCC - in Europe, in the USA and  Canada, and in much of Latin America.   You know this....

I don't rejoice in it (I find it very sad) and it's generally true in Protestantism too, although generally not on the same scale.   It's not a pure RC Denominational thing, CHRISTIANITY is in trouble (at least in it's institutional forms).  i


About half of my Lutheran congregation are former Catholics (including the pastor).  This is FAR from unique in Protestant congregations.  My Catholic parish, which is about 40 years old now, is fairly stable in attendance but this is because the huge exodus of Catholics of Italian, German, Polish, etc.  ancestory has been replaced by a flood of Latinos and Latinas - so much so that the entire ethnic characterization of the parish has changed; but if it were not for a flood of immigrants from Mexico (mostly poor, some illegal), the parish would be very small (if in existence at all); this is quite common of Catholicism around here.   And of course, it has benefited from what was once a higher than normal birthrate (helping to mitigate the exodus from Catholicism, especially as compared to Protestant groups), but this has changed.  Catholics have fully embraced contraception and birth control, and now (even among the Latin immigrants) no longer have a higher birth rate.  

Facts are facts, my fundamentalist Catholic friend.  They are sad, I agree, but they are facts nonetheless.  And anyway your TRY to spin it, it is what it is:   Catholicism is experiencing a huge exodus.   SOME of those are wondering in Protestantism (far more the other way around), but most of those Catholics are just walking away from the church period, perhaps from Christianity.   In DROVES.   In the USA, it's mitigated a bit by 2,000,000 Catholics EACH YEAR moving here, and in some third world nations by a still higher than normal birth rate (which is changing FAST).  



And if exodus from the True Church were an indication that it is NOT the True Church - Jesus wouldn't have had the mass exodus that he hdidin John 6:66.


Who EVER said ANYTHING about ANYONE leaving "the true church?"   This thread is about the enormous exodus happening from The Catholic Church.  Stay on topic, brother!




Quote
The fact is, my angry friend - that you left the Catholic Church out of pure ignorance and now you fight against her because of your pride.


1.  I "left" your denomination because a couple of its dogmas are biblically very problematic, a plethora of its dogmas are baseless and divisive, and because I don't agree with its epistemology:  that self is exempt from the issue of truth, accountability/responsibility, and the commandment regarding bearing false witness if itself alone so declares that it itself alone is.  

2.  IMO, self alone declaring that when self speaks GOD is speaking, that self is the Body of Christ and the Vicar of God, that self appointing self as the sole authority, sole interpreter, sole arbiter; self designating self as the sole one exempt from the issue of truth - these are all indications of pride.  




Quote
That's why MOST people leave God's Church.


I'm sure there are many reasons why SO many are leaving your denomination - some valid, some not.  But that doesn't change the issue of this thread, does it?  

About half of the members of my Lutheran parish are former Catholics.  Including the pastor.  The most common reasons I've heard from them is that they reject the egoism, individualism and denominationalism of The Catholic Church,  they regard several dogmas of it as baseless and irrelevant (and perhaps some as just wrong), and they sought humility, community and accountability.   That's why I did.  I think that's most common.  But some swam the Tiber in our direction because they were looking for something more biblical or for some common ground for a mixed marriage (one of my fellow committee members for example is Presbyterian and he married a cradle Catholic - together, they embraced Lutheranism, more firmly than either had their former associations).  My parish doesn't have any "angry" former Catholics as you phrase it (or at least they don't voice it), when your denomination comes up, it's usually in a very positive light.  I speak often of my gratitude for my Catholic years.  


Yeah, some flee your denomination for Protestant homes.   The reasons are varied, I'm sure.  Many flee your denomination for nothingism - not willing to embrace ANY church, their "leaving" so profound.   It happens in other denominations, too.   I find it sad.




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Offline Josiah

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Re: Members leaving Roman Catholicism in droves
« Reply #29 on: Sat Dec 10, 2011 - 14:14:15 »


You're calling us prideful?  ::eek:: Somehow I don't think you're angry rhetoric is any better.



Hey - if you left the Body of Christ, the Church - because you thought the people were "too cold" - you left out of ignorance, pal.


You KNOW he said NOTHING about leaving the Body of Christ or the Church.  You KNOW that.  He said he left your denomination.   Your substitution of your denomination with Christ and the church is simply documenting the egoism, the pride, the individualism, the divisiveness and condemning spirit of your denomination - and one reason some leave it.  





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Elvisman

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Re: Members leaving Roman Catholicism in droves
« Reply #30 on: Sat Dec 10, 2011 - 14:18:14 »
Who EVER said ANYTHING about ANYONE leaving "the true church?"   This thread is about the enormous exodus happening from The Catholic Church.  Stay on topic, brother!

You're DODGING the issue, as usual.
I said:
If exodus from the True Church were an indication that it is NOT the True Church - Jesus wouldn't have had the mass exodus that he did in John 6:66.

In other words, my angry friend - exodus from ANY Church doesn't prove it's not the genuine Church.
If it did - Jesus wouldn't have had ANYBODY walk out on him like he did in John 6:66.  These were the very FIRST Protestants, my anti-Catholic friend.

1.  I "left" your denomination because a couple of its dogmas are biblically very problematic, a plethora of its dogmas are baseless and divisive, and because I don't agree with its epistemology:  that self is exempt from the issue of truth, accountability/responsibility, and the commandment regarding bearing false witness if itself alone so declares that it itself alone is.  

2.  IMO, self alone declaring that when self speaks GOD is speaking, that self is the Body of Christ and the Vicar of God, that self appointing self as the sole authority, sole interpreter, sole arbiter; self designating self as the sole one exempt from the issue of truth - these are all indications of pride.
 

It was out of PURE ignorance that you left or you would have named those "problematic" dogmas . . .

Offline highrigger

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Re: Members leaving Roman Catholicism in droves
« Reply #31 on: Sat Dec 10, 2011 - 14:25:44 »
Quote
In other words, my angry friend - exodus from ANY Church doesn't prove it's not the genuine Church.
If it did - Jesus wouldn't have had ANYBODY walk out on him like he did in John 6:66.  These were the very FIRST Protestants, my anti-Catholic friend.

elvisman,

Thats not us because we clearly heard what he said in John 6:63. Those that heard and understood, stayed.
Peace, JohnR

Offline stevehut

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Re: Members leaving Roman Catholicism in droves
« Reply #32 on: Sat Dec 10, 2011 - 14:26:58 »
WHY would you leave God because of mere men?


Because I was a baby Christian in need of some handholding and nurturing. Which is exactly what a Christian church is supposed to do. My parish provided neither.


Offline stevehut

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Re: Members leaving Roman Catholicism in droves
« Reply #33 on: Sat Dec 10, 2011 - 14:28:17 »
Elvis, cool your jets, man.  ::eek::  You're not helping your case at all with this hostility.

Offline Ladonia

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Re: Members leaving Roman Catholicism in droves
« Reply #34 on: Sat Dec 10, 2011 - 14:37:44 »
I imagine most left because they got tired of Catholics trying to make them feel guilty and rejected by God

For us it was the indecipherable worship service and the coldness of the fellowship.

When I tried to return about 20 years later the Mass was easier to follow but the people were colder than ever.


What's all this about fellowship? Is that the main reason for picking a church? To me it's all about worshipping God, not the fellowship that you find at a particular church.

I am there for Him, to partake of His body and blood, not to have a nice conversation with the lady in the next pew.

 

     
anything