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Offline Scott1

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New "strategy" on abuse victims...
« on: Tue Apr 10, 2012 - 11:15:34 »
Cardinal confirms new aggressive strategy against abuse victims
by Kristine Ward on Mar. 23, 2012

Cardinal confirms new aggressive strategy against abuse victims

---snip----


"In a none too subtle posting on his Archdiocese of New York blog, Cardinal Timothy Dolan -- the newly minted and over the top feted eminence -- confirmed the bishops’ new strategy: playing hardball against victims and the Survivors Network of those Abused by Priests (SNAP) in particular."
http://ncronline.org/blogs/examining-crisis/cardinal-confirms-new-aggressive-strategy-against-abuse-victims

Shameful.

I pray other Catholics speak out -- to their Bishops and tell them to stop these disgusting tactics.

I am involved with victims every day and can tell you nothing is more hurtful to them than these idiot Bishops who care more about Church image than the victims.

God bless Cardinal O'Malley of Boston and his loving outreach of repentance and prevention.

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New "strategy" on abuse victims...
« on: Tue Apr 10, 2012 - 11:15:34 »

Offline Ladonia

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Re: New "strategy" on abuse victims...
« Reply #1 on: Tue Apr 10, 2012 - 11:44:07 »
My initial response is I would not have expected this from Cardinal Dolan. I will do some further study on this revelation and then comment.

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Re: New "strategy" on abuse victims...
« Reply #1 on: Tue Apr 10, 2012 - 11:44:07 »

Offline Ladonia

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Re: New "strategy" on abuse victims...
« Reply #2 on: Tue Apr 10, 2012 - 11:57:41 »
Ok, Scott, did you read the article at the Catholic League? Not knowing too much about this whole thing and SNAP, it does seem to me that the person in question being depose was let's say a "little edgy" about the situation and having to answer all the questions. It is a fine line the Church has to walk as regards having sympathy for the victims and the Church getting hosed in the process by certain organizations. Is SNAP's real concern strickly for all the victims or raking in some extra  cash? This whole thing in my opinion needs more clarity than we presently have.

Offline LightHammer

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Re: New "strategy" on abuse victims...
« Reply #3 on: Tue Apr 10, 2012 - 12:37:56 »
Cardinal Dolan has been accused of being on a "witchhunt" for pedophile priests for a few years now. I've read articles that paint a picture of him being almost paranoid in a sense. I would be shocked to find out he was being negative towards victims.

I was at the St. Thomas Theological Seminary in Hartford Conneticut two weekends back and even the staff there say Cardinal Dolan is pretty adamant.

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Re: New "strategy" on abuse victims...
« Reply #3 on: Tue Apr 10, 2012 - 12:37:56 »

Offline Scott1

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Re: New "strategy" on abuse victims...
« Reply #4 on: Tue Apr 10, 2012 - 13:00:59 »
Ok, Scott, did you read the article at the Catholic League? Not knowing too much about this whole thing and SNAP, it does seem to me that the person in question being depose was let's say a "little edgy" about the situation and having to answer all the questions. It is a fine line the Church has to walk as regards having sympathy for the victims and the Church getting hosed in the process by certain organizations. Is SNAP's real concern strickly for all the victims or raking in some extra  cash? This whole thing in my opinion needs more clarity than we presently have.

I've read it and I would guess every other document on both sides (part of my job) - and can only offer my opinion on two things.
1. I think Bill Donahue might be Elvisman's father -- LOL
Zealots like him don't help our Church in my opinion.
2.  In no other situation would you EVER find Catholics who are "suspicious" of VICTIMS or the organizations who work full time to assist them.

I work with SNAP all the time and agree they might seem "out to get" the church-- but it was the church and the shameful cover-ups and sin that brought this on.  One can hardly blame them for their attitude - they had even Bishops lying to them!

LHammer, I don't know much about Dolan-- I pray these reports are not accurate.  I can tell you from experience, the public stand on abuse is often not the same as the internal policies.

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Re: New "strategy" on abuse victims...
« Reply #4 on: Tue Apr 10, 2012 - 13:00:59 »



Offline LightHammer

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Re: New "strategy" on abuse victims...
« Reply #5 on: Tue Apr 10, 2012 - 13:05:44 »
Ok, Scott, did you read the article at the Catholic League? Not knowing too much about this whole thing and SNAP, it does seem to me that the person in question being depose was let's say a "little edgy" about the situation and having to answer all the questions. It is a fine line the Church has to walk as regards having sympathy for the victims and the Church getting hosed in the process by certain organizations. Is SNAP's real concern strickly for all the victims or raking in some extra  cash? This whole thing in my opinion needs more clarity than we presently have.

I've read it and I would guess every other document on both sides (part of my job) - and can only offer my opinion on two things.
1. I think Bill Donahue might be Elvisman's father -- LOL
Zealots like him don't help our Church in my opinion.
2.  In no other situation would you EVER find Catholics who are "suspicious" of VICTIMS or the organizations who work full time to assist them.

I work with SNAP all the time and agree they might seem "out to get" the church-- but it was the church and the shameful cover-ups and sin that brought this on.  One can hardly blame them for their attitude - they had even Bishops lying to them!

LHammer, I don't know much about Dolan-- I pray these reports are not accurate.  I can tell you from experience, the public stand on abuse is often not the same as the internal policies.


Oh I don't doubt that you know way more than me about this Big Brother. Just adding my limited knowledge to the collective.

Offline Scott1

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Re: New "strategy" on abuse victims...
« Reply #6 on: Wed Apr 11, 2012 - 00:22:27 »
Quote from: LightHammer
Oh I don't doubt that you know way more than me about this Big Brother. Just adding my limited knowledge to the collective.
And as always, I thank you doing so!

Just understand that my relationship to the Catholic heirarchy is a bit different than 99.9% of Catholics in the world.  Most of my interactions with them are not pleasant, and in person I have been told that I get can a tad mean.   ::eek::

While there are a small portion of them that I do respect, most I find to be..... lacking.  I understand that is judgemental and sounds arrogant (it is something I'm working on with my Spritual Director) but please know that I have seen the WORST of them and it is hard not to carry some baggage with me.

I've not had the honor of meeting personally with Cardinal Dolan, but it is things like this that drive me CRAZY:
Quote
After a 45-minute meeting with Mr. Cuomo, Cardinal Dolan glossed over their differences — the governor, who is Catholic, supports gay marriage and abortion rights and is a divorced man who lives with his girlfriend — and instead emphasized their commonalities.

“With Governor Cuomo, they’re particularly friendly and substantive,

Offline Ladonia

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Re: New "strategy" on abuse victims...
« Reply #7 on: Wed Apr 11, 2012 - 04:40:00 »
Quote from: LightHammer
Oh I don't doubt that you know way more than me about this Big Brother. Just adding my limited knowledge to the collective.
And as always, I thank you doing so!

Just understand that my relationship to the Catholic heirarchy is a bit different than 99.9% of Catholics in the world.  Most of my interactions with them are not pleasant, and in person I have been told that I get can a tad mean.   ::eek::

While there are a small portion of them that I do respect, most I find to be..... lacking.  I understand that is judgemental and sounds arrogant (it is something I'm working on with my Spritual Director) but please know that I have seen the WORST of them and it is hard not to carry some baggage with me.

I've not had the honor of meeting personally with Cardinal Dolan, but it is things like this that drive me CRAZY:
Quote
After a 45-minute meeting with Mr. Cuomo, Cardinal Dolan glossed over their differences — the governor, who is Catholic, supports gay marriage and abortion rights and is a divorced man who lives with his girlfriend — and instead emphasized their commonalities.

“With Governor Cuomo, they’re particularly friendly and substantive,

Offline Paulus

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Re: New "strategy" on abuse victims...
« Reply #8 on: Wed Apr 11, 2012 - 04:55:17 »

Just understand that my relationship to the Catholic heirarchy is a bit different than 99.9% of Catholics in the world. 

Can you verify that figure , Scott ?  ::crackup::

Offline Scott1

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Re: New "strategy" on abuse victims...
« Reply #9 on: Wed Apr 11, 2012 - 07:04:37 »

Just understand that my relationship to the Catholic heirarchy is a bit different than 99.9% of Catholics in the world.  

Can you verify that figure , Scott ?  ::crackup::
LOL... Yes, actually.  Out of a billion or so Catholics, there are less than 1,000 independent abuse investigators.
Sadly, there is need for many more.

Offline kensington

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Re: New "strategy" on abuse victims...
« Reply #10 on: Wed Apr 11, 2012 - 19:48:52 »
Quote from: LightHammer
Oh I don't doubt that you know way more than me about this Big Brother. Just adding my limited knowledge to the collective.
And as always, I thank you doing so!

Just understand that my relationship to the Catholic heirarchy is a bit different than 99.9% of Catholics in the world.  Most of my interactions with them are not pleasant, and in person I have been told that I get can a tad mean.   ::eek::

While there are a small portion of them that I do respect, most I find to be..... lacking.  I understand that is judgemental and sounds arrogant (it is something I'm working on with my Spritual Director) but please know that I have seen the WORST of them and it is hard not to carry some baggage with me.

I've not had the honor of meeting personally with Cardinal Dolan, but it is things like this that drive me CRAZY:
Quote
After a 45-minute meeting with Mr. Cuomo, Cardinal Dolan glossed over their differences — the governor, who is Catholic, supports gay marriage and abortion rights and is a divorced man who lives with his girlfriend — and instead emphasized their commonalities.

“With Governor Cuomo, they’re particularly friendly and substantive,

Offline LightHammer

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Re: New "strategy" on abuse victims...
« Reply #11 on: Wed Apr 11, 2012 - 19:58:00 »
Quote from: LightHammer
Oh I don't doubt that you know way more than me about this Big Brother. Just adding my limited knowledge to the collective.
And as always, I thank you doing so!

Just understand that my relationship to the Catholic heirarchy is a bit different than 99.9% of Catholics in the world.  Most of my interactions with them are not pleasant, and in person I have been told that I get can a tad mean.   ::eek::

While there are a small portion of them that I do respect, most I find to be..... lacking.  I understand that is judgemental and sounds arrogant (it is something I'm working on with my Spritual Director) but please know that I have seen the WORST of them and it is hard not to carry some baggage with me.

I've not had the honor of meeting personally with Cardinal Dolan, but it is things like this that drive me CRAZY:
Quote
After a 45-minute meeting with Mr. Cuomo, Cardinal Dolan glossed over their differences — the governor, who is Catholic, supports gay marriage and abortion rights and is a divorced man who lives with his girlfriend — and instead emphasized their commonalities.

“With Governor Cuomo, they’re particularly friendly and substantive,

Offline kensington

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Re: New "strategy" on abuse victims...
« Reply #12 on: Thu Apr 12, 2012 - 00:24:05 »
No the Allah of their Koran is not the God of Abraham. They have created an idol of war and hate and it's wrong for any Christian to say they are the same God.

But, it's the threat of Chrislam that is seeping into the body of Christ that I speak of.  A trying to merge Christianity with Islam on any level is and afront to the One True God.


Offline Paulus

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Re: New "strategy" on abuse victims...
« Reply #13 on: Thu Apr 12, 2012 - 12:45:09 »
"Allah" is the Arabic for the English word "God" .

If you attended a Christian liturgy in Arabic you would hear the word Allah for God .

Offline Scott1

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Re: New "strategy" on abuse victims...
« Reply #14 on: Thu Apr 12, 2012 - 12:54:51 »
Missing the point gang... Islam is no more than any other heresy of that era.

The Donatists were like us in every way except one and the Fathers (Augustine in particular) sought to destroy them.

These heretics are called "sons of Abraham" and JP II liked to have photo ops kissing the Koran.  ::disco::

Not that I want a return to the Crusades, but let's call a spade a spade.   Some jackass calling Jesus a "prophet" is more of a force of evil than condoms! 

Lord heal thy Church!

Offline DaveW

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Re: New "strategy" on abuse victims...
« Reply #15 on: Thu Apr 12, 2012 - 13:09:53 »
1. "Allah" is the Arabic word for God. Specifically for Muslims the God of Abraham because Islam teaches that the God of Abraham is the father of Islam. It also teaches that Ishmael rather than Jacob was the one to be sacrificed.
Tecnically that is true.

However, when Mohammed started teacing monotheism to polytheistic arabic tribes, he had to pick from their own pantheon.  He selected the Moon-god to be Alah. (hence the pervasive crecent moon imagery in islam)

The descriptions of the islam "alah" and the God of the bible are VERY DIFFERENT. With  alah, there is no personal relating, no mercy and no grace.

Offline Paulus

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Re: New "strategy" on abuse victims...
« Reply #16 on: Thu Apr 12, 2012 - 14:56:33 »


The descriptions of the islam "alah" and the God of the bible are VERY DIFFERENT. With  alah, there is no personal relating, no mercy and no grace.

The above is incorrect .

In the Quran God is viewed as a personal God who responds whenever a person in need or distress calls upon Him .

For example see Quran 2:186 .

Offline Scott1

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Re: New "strategy" on abuse victims...
« Reply #17 on: Thu Apr 12, 2012 - 15:23:44 »
** sigh **

Yes, Allah who teaches "He begetteth not nor was begotten." is a swell fella.


Offline kensington

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Re: New "strategy" on abuse victims...
« Reply #18 on: Thu Apr 12, 2012 - 23:07:11 »
"Allah" is the Arabic for the English word "God" .

If you attended a Christian liturgy in Arabic you would hear the word Allah for God .

Yes, perhaps.  I get that.  And if Muslims spoke English they would say "God"?  Would they be speaking of the same God we speak of. God the Father. Our Father, Who art in Heaven, Hallowed be THY name.... Same "God"?

I don't think so.

Offline kensington

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Re: New "strategy" on abuse victims...
« Reply #19 on: Thu Apr 12, 2012 - 23:08:49 »
** sigh **

Yes, Allah who teaches "He begetteth not nor was begotten." is a swell fella.




 ::giggle::

Offline Paulus

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Re: New "strategy" on abuse victims...
« Reply #20 on: Fri Apr 13, 2012 - 04:55:29 »
" Upon the Moslems the Church looks with esteem . They adore one God , living and enduring , merciful and all-powerful , Maker of heaven and earth , and Speaker to men . They strive to submit wholeheartedly even to His inscrutable decrees , just as did Abraham , with whom the Islamic faith is pleased to associate itself . " ( from "Nostra Aetate" ) .

Offline DaveW

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Re: New "strategy" on abuse victims...
« Reply #21 on: Fri Apr 13, 2012 - 05:31:02 »
" Upon the Moslems the Church looks with esteem . They adore one God , living and enduring , merciful and all-powerful , Maker of heaven and earth , and Speaker to men . They strive to submit wholeheartedly even to His inscrutable decrees , just as did Abraham , with whom the Islamic faith is pleased to associate itself . " ( from "Nostra Aetate" ) .
So the "church" looks to those under the influence of Antichist "...with esteem?" How wrong is that?

It is foundational to islamic theology that "god has no son." THat phrase is written over the door to the Dome of the Rock shrine/mosque that sits atop the Temple Mount in Jerusalem.

The book of First John tells me that denying the Son is antichrist.

Offline AVZ

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Re: New "strategy" on abuse victims...
« Reply #22 on: Fri Apr 13, 2012 - 06:25:02 »
Catholic Cathechism 841

The Church's relationship with the Muslims. "The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind's judge on the last day."

Offline DaveW

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Re: New "strategy" on abuse victims...
« Reply #23 on: Fri Apr 13, 2012 - 06:55:03 »
That cathechism needs to change.

islam is an evil demonic religion. It needs to be recognized as such.

Their mantra has long been "First the Saturday people and then the Sunday people," meaning first they eradicate the Jews and then the Christians.

They will be coming after us to delete us out of the world.

http://jerusalemworldnews.com/2012/02/13/first-the-saturday-people-then-the-sunday-people/

Offline Scott1

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Re: New "strategy" on abuse victims...
« Reply #24 on: Fri Apr 13, 2012 - 09:35:36 »
Don't get me wrong gang, I believe the Catechism is correct. 

For context:
843 The Catholic Church recognizes in other religions that search, among shadows and images, for the God who is unknown yet near since he gives life and breath and all things and wants all men to be saved. Thus, the Church considers all goodness and truth found in these religions as "a preparation for the Gospel and given by him who enlightens all men that they may at length have life."

844 In their religious behavior, however, men also display the limits and errors that disfigure the image of God in them:
Very often, deceived by the Evil One, men have become vain in their reasonings, and have exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and served the creature rather than the Creator. Or else, living and dying in this world without God, they are exposed to ultimate despair.

845 To reunite all his children, scattered and led astray by sin, the Father willed to call the whole of humanity together into his Son's Church. The Church is the place where humanity must rediscover its unity and salvation. The Church is "the world reconciled." She is that bark which "in the full sail of the Lord's cross, by the breath of the Holy Spirit, navigates safely in this world." According to another image dear to the Church Fathers, she is prefigured by Noah's ark, which alone saves from the flood.

What I am saying is that the Church puts too much focus on this almost "universal salvation" message instead of openly calling for all to come to Christ.  Yeah it is implied, but for political/peace reasons (not really an evil intent) does not call Islam what it truly is -- HERESY.

For anyone who wants to learn about St John of Damascus and his teaching that Islam was not a NEW religion, but just another Christian heresy : http://www.bombaxo.com/blog/?p=210

Offline DaveW

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Re: New "strategy" on abuse victims...
« Reply #25 on: Fri Apr 13, 2012 - 09:47:08 »
When islam holds to "God has no son," it falls away from ANYTHING Christian, even heretical christian and becomes a false demonic belief system that has absolutely no salvation.  They are all doomed to hell unless they repent. 

Salvation is found ONLY in the Son of God, by His death and resurrection. To call Him anything other than God in the flesh, God's only begotten Son, is to believe in "some other Jesus" which Paul resoundly condemned.

Offline Scott1

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Re: New "strategy" on abuse victims...
« Reply #26 on: Fri Apr 13, 2012 - 09:56:31 »
Mods forgive me for straying off topic, but it is my thread.  ::smile::

DaveW- Do you believe that EVERYONE who does not believe Jesus is Lord goes to hell?

Even those who never hear the Gospel - God punishes them for eternity because the committed the grave sin of being born in the wrong place?

As a Jew by birth I have a hard time attacking a entire group of people - must be in my DNA from my family who survived the Shoah -- so I am curious to hear someone so closely connected to Judaism condemn an entire people.

Thanks for you time and reply Dave.
-S

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Re: New "strategy" on abuse victims...
« Reply #27 on: Fri Apr 13, 2012 - 10:06:20 »
Don't get me wrong gang, I believe the Catechism is correct. 

For context:
843 The Catholic Church recognizes in other religions that search, among shadows and images, for the God who is unknown yet near since he gives life and breath and all things and wants all men to be saved. Thus, the Church considers all goodness and truth found in these religions as "a preparation for the Gospel and given by him who enlightens all men that they may at length have life."

844 In their religious behavior, however, men also display the limits and errors that disfigure the image of God in them:
Very often, deceived by the Evil One, men have become vain in their reasonings, and have exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and served the creature rather than the Creator. Or else, living and dying in this world without God, they are exposed to ultimate despair.

845 To reunite all his children, scattered and led astray by sin, the Father willed to call the whole of humanity together into his Son's Church. The Church is the place where humanity must rediscover its unity and salvation. The Church is "the world reconciled." She is that bark which "in the full sail of the Lord's cross, by the breath of the Holy Spirit, navigates safely in this world." According to another image dear to the Church Fathers, she is prefigured by Noah's ark, which alone saves from the flood.

What I am saying is that the Church puts too much focus on this almost "universal salvation" message instead of openly calling for all to come to Christ.  Yeah it is implied, but for political/peace reasons (not really an evil intent) does not call Islam what it truly is -- HERESY.

For anyone who wants to learn about St John of Damascus and his teaching that Islam was not a NEW religion, but just another Christian heresy : http://www.bombaxo.com/blog/?p=210


Just curious.

Is there a reason to mention Islam at all in the catechism?
If for political/peace reasons the church cannot express what she really thinks of Islam, why mention it in the first place?

I have always understood CC841 as a recognition by the Catholic Church that Islam parttakes in salvation, or at least is considered as incorporated into the plan of salvation.

Would it not be better to scrap CC841 all together then?

Offline Scott1

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Re: New "strategy" on abuse victims...
« Reply #28 on: Fri Apr 13, 2012 - 10:45:04 »
Don't get me wrong gang, I believe the Catechism is correct. 

For context:
843 The Catholic Church recognizes in other religions that search, among shadows and images, for the God who is unknown yet near since he gives life and breath and all things and wants all men to be saved. Thus, the Church considers all goodness and truth found in these religions as "a preparation for the Gospel and given by him who enlightens all men that they may at length have life."

844 In their religious behavior, however, men also display the limits and errors that disfigure the image of God in them:
Very often, deceived by the Evil One, men have become vain in their reasonings, and have exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and served the creature rather than the Creator. Or else, living and dying in this world without God, they are exposed to ultimate despair.

845 To reunite all his children, scattered and led astray by sin, the Father willed to call the whole of humanity together into his Son's Church. The Church is the place where humanity must rediscover its unity and salvation. The Church is "the world reconciled." She is that bark which "in the full sail of the Lord's cross, by the breath of the Holy Spirit, navigates safely in this world." According to another image dear to the Church Fathers, she is prefigured by Noah's ark, which alone saves from the flood.

What I am saying is that the Church puts too much focus on this almost "universal salvation" message instead of openly calling for all to come to Christ.  Yeah it is implied, but for political/peace reasons (not really an evil intent) does not call Islam what it truly is -- HERESY.

For anyone who wants to learn about St John of Damascus and his teaching that Islam was not a NEW religion, but just another Christian heresy : http://www.bombaxo.com/blog/?p=210


Just curious.

Is there a reason to mention Islam at all in the catechism?
If for political/peace reasons the church cannot express what she really thinks of Islam, why mention it in the first place?

I have always understood CC841 as a recognition by the Catholic Church that Islam parttakes in salvation, or at least is considered as incorporated into the plan of salvation.

Would it not be better to scrap CC841 all together then?

Well, it is not taken out because it is part of the Chapter that deals with our definition of "Church":

PART ONE
THE PROFESSION OF FAITH
SECTION TWO
THE PROFESSION OF THE CHRISTIAN FAITH
CHAPTER THREE
I BELIEVE IN THE HOLY SPIRIT
ARTICLE 9
"I BELIEVE IN THE HOLY CATHOLIC CHURCH"
Paragraph 3. The Church Is One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic
-The Church and non-Christians


... so it is an important teaching concering our relationship with non-Catholics.

No need to scrap, IMO, just balance it with clear and concise teachings on what is truly deficient in Islam instead of focusing on the rare chance a Muslim could be saved.

Offline DaveW

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Re: New "strategy" on abuse victims...
« Reply #29 on: Fri Apr 13, 2012 - 11:28:01 »
DaveW- Do you believe that EVERYONE who does not believe Jesus is Lord goes to hell?
In general - yes.  Peter testified thusly:

Acts 4.12 And there is salvation in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved.

Offline DaveW

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Re: New "strategy" on abuse victims...
« Reply #30 on: Fri Apr 13, 2012 - 11:33:10 »
This is perhaps even further off topic. (but as the OP you can allow it  - or break it off into its own thread if you want)

You stated you are Jewish.  (decendant of Shoah survivors) Have you been following the progress of the Toward Jerusalem Council II talks with the Vatican at all?

Has the Jewish Rite Catholic structure been set up and running yet?

Offline Scott1

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Re: New "strategy" on abuse victims...
« Reply #31 on: Fri Apr 13, 2012 - 14:03:50 »
This is perhaps even further off topic. (but as the OP you can allow it  - or break it off into its own thread if you want)

You stated you are Jewish.  (decendant of Shoah survivors) Have you been following the progress of the Toward Jerusalem Council II talks with the Vatican at all?

Has the Jewish Rite Catholic structure been set up and running yet?
Thanks for your explanation Dave -- and no, have not been following anything from the Vatican lately.  Anything good?

Offline DaveW

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Re: New "strategy" on abuse victims...
« Reply #32 on: Fri Apr 13, 2012 - 17:55:52 »
They (Vatican and TJC II) have been having regular talks over various issues for the last several years. This summer's are to be held in Jerusalem and deal with communion/Eucharist beliefs.

It is the purpose of TJC II to undo the early exclusion of Jewish believers back in the 200s-300s and restore communion between Rome and the Jewish believers (Messianics)

John Paul 2 set in motion the beginnings of a Jewish Rite but I have not heard much of anything about it under the current Pontiff, Benedict XVI.

Offline Scott1

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Re: New "strategy" on abuse victims...
« Reply #33 on: Fri Apr 13, 2012 - 18:01:32 »
They (Vatican and TJC II) have been having regular talks over various issues for the last several years. This summer's are to be held in Jerusalem and deal with communion/Eucharist beliefs.

It is the purpose of TJC II to undo the early exclusion of Jewish believers back in the 200s-300s and restore communion between Rome and the Jewish believers (Messianics)

John Paul 2 set in motion the beginnings of a Jewish Rite but I have not heard much of anything about it under the current Pontiff, Benedict XVI.
Very interesting topic!

Thanks

Offline broach972

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Re: New "strategy" on abuse victims...
« Reply #34 on: Sat Apr 21, 2012 - 22:21:43 »
No the Allah of their Koran is not the God of Abraham. They have created an idol of war and hate and it's wrong for any Christian to say they are the same God.

But, it's the threat of Chrislam that is seeping into the body of Christ that I speak of.  A trying to merge Christianity with Islam on any level is and afront to the One True God.



Actually, Kensington you are wrong on this.  From a Muslim perspective, Allah is in fact the God of Abraham, and they consider Abraham to be the patriarch of their faith through his son Ishmael.  "Allah" is simply the Arabic term for God.  Muslims recognize the validity of the Prophets from Abraham to Muhammad, including Jesus.  The also recognize the validity of the Old Testament.  They part ways with Christianity over the divinity of Christ and reject the writings of the New Testament since it primarily addresses and confirms the divinity of Christ.  It frankly doesn't matter what you and I believe in since this is exactly what Islam teaches.

No one is trying to merge Christianity with Islam and to do so would actually be offensive to a Muslim.  Whether one wants to believe it or not, there is a historical connection between the three faiths of Judaism, Christianity, and Islam.  A Muslim would say that Christianity put a twist on the evolution of the three faiths when we made Jesus divine, which is a big no-no in their book.  They have that in common with Judaism at least.